Probably a bad idea to get an M1 Max or Ultra. 5nm is old tech

[Zdigital2015]

The 5nm tech in the M1, M1 Max and M1 Ultra is now old tech. We are on the cusp of 3nm M2's. That is a 40% decrease in size and significant boost to performance and energy savings. The last change was 7nm to 5nm which was less than 30% decrease in fabrication. The iPhone 12 has a 5nm chip and that is almost 2 years old now.

Paying $4000 or $8000 for a 5nm chip computer right now is probably a bad idea. When the 3nm rollout comes later this year, the longevity of those chips will be significantly better. Also, we are running into constraints with Moore's law and will probably not see 1nm chips for several years.

For those of us that have real work to get done and don’t have time to navel gaze, who flippin’ cares if the Mac Studio is 5nm?

Chasing specs is a fool’s errand. Tech is a
moving target and there is no such thing as future-proofing or longevity in this day and age. Stop chasing your own tail, buy what you need to get the job done and do it!

 

[dugbug]

Im holding out for 1nm

 

[hagjohn]

The 5nm tech in the M1, M1 Max and M1 Ultra is now old tech. We are on the cusp of 3nm M2's. That is a 40% decrease in size and significant boost to performance and energy savings. The last change was 7nm to 5nm which was less than 30% decrease in fabrication. The iPhone 12 has a 5nm chip and that is almost 2 years old now.

Paying $4000 or $8000 for a 5nm chip computer right now is probably a bad idea. When the 3nm rollout comes later this year, the longevity of those chips will be significantly better. Also, we are running into constraints with Moore's law and will probably not see 1nm chips for several years.

My dear god, what? ?

 

[Zdigital2015]

The 5nm tech in the M1, M1 Max and M1 Ultra is now old tech. We are on the cusp of 3nm M2's. That is a 40% decrease in size and significant boost to performance and energy savings. The last change was 7nm to 5nm which was less than 30% decrease in fabrication. The iPhone 12 has a 5nm chip and that is almost 2 years old now.

Paying $4000 or $8000 for a 5nm chip computer right now is probably a bad idea. When the 3nm rollout comes later this year, the longevity of those chips will be significantly better. Also, we are running into constraints with Moore's law and will probably not see 1nm chips for several years.

Also, volume 3nm is a Q4/23 or Q1/24 product launch and not likely the M2 either as the M2 is supposed to ship this year. M2 is either 5nm+ or 4nm, but it isn’t 3nm.

 

[Queen6]

For those of us that have real work to get done and don’t have time to navel gaze, who flippin’ cares if the Mac Studio is 5nm?

Chasing specs is a fool’s errand. Tech is a
moving target and there is no such thing as future-proofing or longevity in this day and age. Stop chasing your own tail, buy what you need to get the job done and do it!

Exactly a $600 machine can turn six figures in the right hands, a $6K Mac can equally be obsolete in short time with some workflows. For those utilising their Mac's professionally the cost should hopefully be irrelevant. For the consumer/prosumer different situation, that said I maintain buy what you need when you need it at the lowest price point for your needs. Apple is a master class in upselling it's HW a point well worth considering.

Current crop of Apple Silicon Mac's are devastatingly fast and will remain relevant for a good while. I've only got a base model M1 MBP as that's all I need, better the $$$$ in my pocket than Apple's Should I need more, to the point capitalise on more performance it would be a just a few clicks away nor would I for one instant worry about the next best thing...

Q-6

 

[now i see it]

Whatever new Apple computer you buy today will be usable for at least 8 years.

 

[Zdigital2015]

My dear god, what? ?

Spec chasers, spec chasers, spec chasers!

 

[Shreducator]

?

 

[antiprotest]

Shorter version of this post:

"pay attention to meeeee!!"

Mods - come on. This is nothing but trolling and you know it.

Once someone on here was trolling another poster and I comforted the poster by saying that the guy was just a troll. I got a message from a mod warning me against making a post targeting another user. I hope you will have better luck.

Disclaimer to mods: I am not targeting the mods. I am only relating my experience. If there is any question, I mean it was my fault -- all my fault.

 

[Queen6]

Whatever new Apple computer you buy today will be usable for at least 8 years.

Likely all. I still have one of the ill fated 2011 15" MBP's, it's only purpose today is to serve offline video, yet it remains fully functional & 100% stock. I do put it online as needs be, as and when. At this point in time at ten and half years old more a point of curiosity when it finally quits...

Q-6

 

[ipsedixit]

This must be Sisyphus' favorite thread.

 

[nastysailboat]

The 5nm tech in the M1, M1 Max and M1 Ultra is now old tech. We are on the cusp of 3nm M2's. That is a 40% decrease in size and significant boost to performance and energy savings. The last change was 7nm to 5nm which was less than 30% decrease in fabrication. The iPhone 12 has a 5nm chip and that is almost 2 years old now.

Paying $4000 or $8000 for a 5nm chip computer right now is probably a bad idea. When the 3nm rollout comes later this year, the longevity of those chips will be significantly better. Also, we are running into constraints with Moore's law and will probably not see 1nm chips for several years.

I disagree, like it’s been said here. You’ll never be ahead of the tech curve. But I mean how much more power can you use. 8k isn’t a huge thing right now and this machine can take multiple streams of 8k video editing that’s crazy. Like they will keep making more powerful machines but will most people need it. Maybe it’s a little over kill if you already have an m1 max machine but if you don’t I’d say it’s a smart move.

 

[Zdigital2015]

Likely all. I still have one of the ill fated 2011 15" MBP's, it's only purpose today is to serve offline video, yet it remains fully functional & 100% stock. I do put it online as needs be, as and when. At this point in time at ten and half years old more a point of curiosity when it finally quits...

Q-6

My Late 2011 15” has a 1TB SSD running 10.13.6 and is still going strong. I don’t use it for very much anymore, but it’s there if I need it.

 

[Allyance]

We used to call it the bleeding edge, always waiting for that next increment of performance. Sooner or later you have to bite the bullet and jump in and get what you need. Personally I think the smaller the nm, the higher the rate of failures in manufacturing with the higher tolerances. There has to be a point of diminishing returns. The Ultra price point points this out. 17 billion transistors, odds are there be some bad ones.

 

[Queen6]

My Late 2011 15” has a 1TB SSD running 10.13.6 and is still going strong. I don’t use it for very much anymore, but it’s there if I need it.

Same here it just plods on. Nice to see another is still up and running as many suffered dGPU failure. Mine remains stock as have no reason to upgrade. For any serious work I have far faster Mac's, this one just sits at the end of the desk and mostly serves up video, second screening LOL.

Q-6

 

[collin_]

It sounds absurd to say that TSMC 5N is old tech, but in a way, OP is actually right. I wish Apple would have at least updated it to A15 architecture. Had they done that, we likely would have ended up with single core performance that beats out the 12900K, which would actually matter for some people.

Although I'm assuming that basically every customer is going to run this thing on ethernet, I'm disappointed about the lack of Wi-Fi 6E support too.

I just hope that Macs jump straight to A16 architecture/lithography ASAP. It sounds like the upcoming Mac Pro will (they called M1 ultra the final SoC in the M1 family). For these prices, we should be getting the latest tech.

 

[bobcomer]

Likely all. I still have one of the ill fated 2011 15" MBP's, it's only purpose today is to serve offline video, yet it remains fully functional & 100% stock. I do put it online as needs be, as and when. At this point in time at ten and half years old more a point of curiosity when it finally quits...

Q-6

Yet I have a 2017 MBP, and it's non functional. The batteries failed spectacularly -- it happens. But overall, yes, a Mac could still be working after 8 years. (so could a Windows PC)

 

[ttyRazor]

The 5nm tech in the M1, M1 Max and M1 Ultra is now old tech. We are on the cusp of 3nm M2's. That is a 40% decrease in size and significant boost to performance and energy savings. The last change was 7nm to 5nm which was less than 30% decrease in fabrication. The iPhone 12 has a 5nm chip and that is almost 2 years old now.

Paying $4000 or $8000 for a 5nm chip computer right now is probably a bad idea. When the 3nm rollout comes later this year, the longevity of those chips will be significantly better. Also, we are running into constraints with Moore's law and will probably not see 1nm chips for several years.

TSMC’s 7nm, 5nm, and 3nm “are just numbers… it doesn’t matter what the number is”

"These numbers are just numbers. They're like models in a car - it’s like BMW 5-series or Mazda 6."

www.pcgamesn.com

The difference between TSMC’s 5 nm and 3 nm doesn’t translate to an exact 3/5 difference in size. For a while, node names have referred to the width of specific parts, not the scale of the whole chip, and lately it’s gotten even further abstracted. They’re still improvements to size and heat/power consumption, but it doesn’t mean the whole chip gets smaller by the proportion of the node names

 

[macguy360]

It sounds absurd to say that TSMC 5N is old tech, but in a way, OP is actually right. I wish Apple would have at least updated it to A15 architecture. Had they done that, we likely would have ended up with single core performance that beats out the 12900K, which would actually matter for some people.

Although I'm assuming that basically every customer is going to run this thing on ethernet, I'm disappointed about the lack of Wi-Fi 6E support too.

I just hope that Macs jump straight to A16 architecture/lithography ASAP. It sounds like the upcoming Mac Pro will (they called M1 ultra the final SoC in the M1 family). For these prices, we should be getting the latest tech.

Exactly. There are people here getting excited to spend $8000 for a computer with a 2 year old processor. All they did was cram several of them together and design it to run together. The 40% die shrink from 5nm to 3nm will result in significant boosts and Moore's law will slow down after that.

 

[MauiPa]

It sounds absurd to say that TSMC 5N is old tech, but in a way, OP is actually right. I wish Apple would have at least updated it to A15 architecture. Had they done that, we likely would have ended up with single core performance that beats out the 12900K, which would actually matter for some people.

Although I'm assuming that basically every customer is going to run this thing on ethernet, I'm disappointed about the lack of Wi-Fi 6E support too.

I just hope that Macs jump straight to A16 architecture/lithography ASAP. It sounds like the upcoming Mac Pro will (they called M1 ultra the final SoC in the M1 family). For these prices, we should be getting the latest tech.

Are you kidding? Price/performance wise these kill windows desktops. I could not configure a threadripper pc with equivalent performance, memory, fast SSDs etc for under 6000. So 4000 for a Mac ultra vs 6000 for a threadripper. Hmmmmm, which is less, I can’t figure it out.

And no, don’t pretend a slower performance threadripper with crappy SSDs and not enough ram is equivalent, it is not. But maybe you will have better luck. Send on the link

 

[MauiPa]

Exactly. There are people here getting excited to spend $8000 for a computer with a 2 year old processor. All they did was cram several of them together and design it to run together. The 40% die shrink from 5nm to 3nm will result in significant boosts and Moore's law will slow down after that.

Ummm, you have heard of product life cycles? It does take time to design, fab and manufacture SOCs. But if what you say is correct, then where are the equivalent threadripper (there are not intels at reasonable price points). Taking how much power >280 watts?, what fab? And what price point? Send links, I want to see

 

[clevins]

Once someone on here was trolling another poster and I comforted the poster by saying that the guy was just a troll. I got a message from a mod warning me against making a post targeting another user. I hope you will have better luck.

Disclaimer to mods: I am not targeting the mods. I am only relating my experience. If there is any question, I mean it was my fault -- all my fault.

I had the same experience, but when someone does seem to be posting for a reaction and the mods only infract the people responding, it's annoying.

I don't care about validly critical posts of Apple. Those are fine since nothing is perfect. But posts like this seem both deliberately provocative and devoid of actual merit. Even if we concede that 3nm chips will hold big advantages over 5, so what? It's not like I can buy the newer chips or will be able to anytime soon.

 

[cocoua]

The whole thread is just stupid. The OP is just dumb, but here we are, answering and losing our time… me included! XD

 

[Bandaman]

Are you nuts? Why aren’t you waiting for the 2 nm version? It’s going to be so much better.

 

[darkpaw]

The 5nm tech in the M1, M1 Max and M1 Ultra is now old tech. We are on the cusp of 3nm M2's. That is a 40% decrease in size and significant boost to performance and energy savings. The last change was 7nm to 5nm which was less than 30% decrease in fabrication. The iPhone 12 has a 5nm chip and that is almost 2 years old now.

Paying $4000 or $8000 for a 5nm chip computer right now is probably a bad idea. When the 3nm rollout comes later this year, the longevity of those chips will be significantly better. Also, we are running into constraints with Moore's law and will probably not see 1nm chips for several years.

I can only assume you're king the Mickey, as that's absolute nonsense otherwise.

Why pay for a 5nm chip now when you can wait a year or so and get a 4nm one that'll be 20% faster? But wait, why buy the 4nm chip when a year or so later there'll be a 3nm chip which is a 25% increase? Oh, but wait, again! There's a 2nm chip coming and that's 33% faster! Get that one! No! Get the 1nm chip that's out soon. It's a 50% speed increase! Yeah, I'm getting that one. Well good luck with that. I'm waiting for the half a nanometre one which is 100% faster...

Chip tech does improve speed, yes, but it's not everything, and with current knowledge and ability there'll be a point at which we can't put the transistors any closer on the chip (physics, you know) and we'll have to figure out some other way of improving chips. We'll figure it out, but if you keep waiting for the next best thing you'll never get the current best thing. The current best thing is the M1 Ultra.