PSA: you probably don’t need 32 or 64Gb RAM unless you know you need it.

[macintoshmac]

I’m now of the opinion that it really doesn’t matter what people get for themselves unless we are the ones giving them that money. People will learn better from their own experiences than from words out of someone else.

If someone buys 16GB and is not happy 2 years down the line, we aren’t going to reimburse him or help in terms of hardware.

All we need to do is help people understand the difference between ‘fear of missing out’ and projecting their needs into the future to account for devices that can work for them equally well years down the line.

People who constantly upgrade every two years, they may get away with the minimum specs. But, even then, they really don’t know what’s going to happen two years down the line - they might have a more demanding job just six months later. Their lives may change dramatically for any reason, leaving them either financially strained to upgrade on their usual schedule or in need of an urgent upgrade because they went with minimum specs.

Whole point is people only need to spec out their needs today and what they might ever want to do 3-4 years into the life of the computer and get the machine that works well for it.

That’s it.

If they think 32 is the way to go, they should go for it. Their money. They will be happier with the configuration. Who are we to moderate their happiness with bare need?

 

[svenmany]

People should just ignore most so called “influencers” on Youtube.

An influencer on YouTube is the same as an influencer on MacRumors. Sometimes YouTube influencers accompany their opinions with facts or demonstrations. The opening post in this thread included neither. Things were asserted with absolute certainty where no certainty exists.

I liked the opening post. My intuition agrees with the spirit of the message. Some casually worded points made by the OP are factually incorrect. But, if you squint a bit you can still pick out some truth.

I do take issue with people readily adopting unsupported opinions; I guess you'd call that being influenced.

 

[Techwatcher]

16GB RAM is what most people will be fine with--trust me. If you get a 32 or 64 RAM MBP (I got the 32), then you should know WHY you need that 32 or 64. I know why I need the 32 as I push MacBook Pros to the limit for what I do with heavy multitasking during intensive processes.

Do not waste money just to "have the absolute best" because it is not worth it. These laptops go up to 8 TB SSD and 64GB RAM and I configured mine for 1 TB SSD and 32GB RAM. Can I afford a completely maxed out MBP? I can, but I also know I would be wasting money. I have an external Thunderbolt SSD and I have cloud storage. Always try to make the most out of as little as possible. Don't toss money into the wind if you're not going to utilize the device to its maximum extent.

At the end of the day when you're outside with your MacBook Pro in Starbucks or wherever you like to relax, no one will be able to tell whether you spent $1,999.99 or $6,000. Save your money and configure for what you need.

 

[ErikGrim]

The magic of web apps 🌈
Seriously, I don't know why the Music app isn't native. It's an awful experience.

It is absolutely native. It's a lobotomised version of iTunes.

 

[ErikGrim]

they bashed iPhone 12 mini because of battery. Where you know what? I bought 13 mini and battery lasts me 3 DAYS of my usage.

What's your point? iPhone 13 mini is not the iPhone 12 mini

 

[haruhiko]

By this logic you should max out everything - why not get an 8Tb drive? You might need it at one point, and you'll be able to sell it for more.

The thing is - people can reasonably predict their needs, unless you're dramatically changing your line of work. People act as if suddenly there will be this big shift - omg, files are getting bigger, you will run out of memory, etc. This may happen - but that goes for anything - you really might realize that you need a faster CPU or a bigger drive, so why not buy that 8Tb drive? You never know! Of course, most people are not buying these 8Tb drives (even 4Tb ones) because they can reasonably predict their needs. Same with people buying M1 Pro CPUs instead of M1 Max CPUs because they don't need the GPU horsepower. But how do they know? GPUs are used for a lot of things - what if tomorrow they discover their work requires more GPU cores? Better make sure and buy it now! (In fact, as silly as it may sound, I actually find it more plausible that in the next 5 years some people might need extra GPU cores more than additional RAM, but that's a totally different topic).

It's just the RAM thing that is a complete mystery, where people keep thinking they need more for whatever reason. My guess - RAM amount used to be much more important for everyday things then it is today and it used to be this big limiting factor (if you run out of RAM, you don't get to use your app). So now we have a situation where even journalists like Joanna Stern tweeting something like "Write You can never have too much RAM on my tombstone" - which is kind of a bad advice to give. And when computers slow down, people immediately think RAM is the reason, not some background process or software issue.

The reality is - if you're ok with 16Gb today.... you'll be fine in next 5-6 years. There will be exceptions, but there are exceptions for everything. And in 5-6 years, when your tasks become more demanding and you could use more RAM, it won't be like your computer will stop working, just that you'll realize you need more. But you will also need more CPU power at that point, and maybe there will be a better screen that you can use, etc. So might as well get a new computer then.


P.S. Speaking of reselling, it really depends on the asking price - because usually you will ask for more if you payed more originally, and people buying used computers don't usually spend that much money. Cheaper used things sell more then expensive used things.

This! 🤣
Good luck reselling expensive things that is not exclusive. Haha. Who will buy 2nd hand computers? Those who want to save money. The ones who want to save money will not spend a lot just because it’s cheaper than the purchase price.

 

[beethovengirl]

I have a late 2016 13" MBP with 16 GB RAM and a SSD. I usually have over 100 tabs open in Chrome, and my computer does not handle it well. I have to restart my computer about once a week. So I'd been planning on getting the 14" MBP with 32 GB RAM. any reason why 16 GB RAM would be enough for me with the 14" MBP base model?

 

[smirking]

I actually find it more plausible that in the next 5 years some people might need extra GPU cores more than additional RAM, but that's a totally different topic).

I agree with this hunch because it was previously unreasonable as a developer to expect average users to have spare GPU cores whether it was integrated, an external GPU, or a built in GPU. Now even people with base level MBAs have some extra GPUs cores to tap into.

On the other hand any program that would benefit from tapping into RAM has probably already tapped into extra RAM.

 

[ctjack]

We need your input - copy paste serial number into Apple's trade-in calculator and help us out by giving the value:
1) Base MBP 16 2019 Intel. 16gb of RAM, 512 GB ssd. Getting trade-in value for this will help to determine the possible upgrade costs when buying base MBP 16 M1 Pro and trading-in in 1-2 years.
2) Base MBP 16 2019 Intel but with only upgraded RAM to 32GB with $400 at the time of purchase. This will help us to calculate how much of that additional $400 invested is going back to the user when trading-in the more specced version of the base.

Ok so googled some SN for MBP 16.
1) Absolute base $2400 got $1210 for trade-in.
2) Absolute base with only bumped ssd to 2tb(+$600), so $3000 total = got $1480 trade-in.
Difference here is that you paid initially $600 more but going to get back $270 in trade-in value.

Overall absolute bare naked barebone base saves you the most money when upgrading frequently.
My m1 Air 8gb/512gb got 670, which is also around 50% of residual value. Above MBP 16 example are also almost 50%.
So basically we are looking at 50% price drop for 1 year usage. But in terms of MBP 16 Intel - those people lost 50% for 2 years of owning to this laptop which is kinda cool.

any reason why 16 GB RAM would be enough for me with the 14" MBP base model?

Your 2016 MBP had pretty bad single core scores and it was a dual core. Todays 14" is 8 core CPU with double-triple of your single core performance.
I managed to open 100 tabs(well not 100 but 80 tabs regularly) on my 13" 2012 retina MBP and had no problems at all. But that thing was sitting on Sierra not even High one.

 

[collin_]

From super-fast SSDs to the fact that RAM usage isn’t raising so fast like it used to (I swear I use practically the same amount today as I did 7 years ago).

I believe that is primarily because of 64-bit computing and how it has been the standard for a while now.

Definitely agree with your post but in my case I have no idea how much I need, and it very well may be more than 16GB. I’m going to be using Pro Tools (the DAW) commercially. Their system requirements say “16GB RAM (32GB or more recommended).” I’m so confused because that kinda scares me into going with 64GB but at the same time I’ve seen a ton of people on forums who work in Pro Tools for a living saying it runs just fine with 16. If I go for the 64GB model and don’t end up needing it, that’s going to be a costly mistake. :s

 

[Micka88]

It is always better to have more RAM than less. 32 GB is a good standard and unless you want to keep closing multiple apps most of the time, it is good to go for it ... You can survive even with 4 GB RAM but ...

 

[ondioline]

OK, I know I want a M1 Max for the 32 GPU, so 32 GB of RAM is given, but I still can't let go of that 64GB RAM idea just yet. Capture One and InDesign does not need more than 32GB Ram for sure, but Photoshop is such a RAM hog. 😅

If you're working with high DPI images then the memory bandwidth is going to be a game-changer too. PS and CSP load the entire canvas and all the raster layers directly into memory. The single core performance + the bandwidth from the M1 Max makes it, without a doubt, the best processor ever for these kinds of applications.

 

[srikat]

I have the M1 MBA with 8 GB RAM and M1 mini with 16 GB RAM.

I have a ton of tabs in Chrome and ton of apps running simultaneously. I am a heavy multitasker.

The MBA is totally unusable for my use. Constantly keep getting the message about the system running out of physical and virtual memory.

Mini is ok but I still keep getting the running out of memory notices now and then.

With the new MBP, I went with the 64 GB. 32 GB is probably enough but I thought I could stretch my budget a little for a computer that I'll be using for the next 5+ years.

Getting a discount of ~16.5% helped a little.

 

[MacheadSK]

What's your point? iPhone 13 mini is not the iPhone 12 mini

Point is, iPhone 12 mini has just 1.5 hour longer battery time. If iPhone 13 mini lasts me more than 3 days with claimed 6.5 hour of battery life, 12 mini wouldn't be that much different. Yet, Youtubers screaming how it is such a bad phone when it's not true at all. Especially when you can get it these days very cheaply second hand.

 

[salvatore.p]

I agree with this hunch because it was previously unreasonable as a developer to expect average users to have spare GPU cores whether it was integrated, an external GPU, or a built in GPU. Now even people with base level MBAs have some extra GPUs cores to tap into.

On the other hand any program that would benefit from tapping into RAM has probably already tapped into extra RAM.

Don’t work in that way. From a dev perspective, isn’t about how many gpu cores the average people have.

GPU can do specific tasks, in witch they are order of magnitude faster than CPU. (even Intel IGPU)

I expect that graphic performance of native apps will improve (because Metal API are built with these GPU architectures in mind) but doesn’t mean that the GPU requirements will grow.
Sure if you want to game or you will use professional tools (3D heavy for example) you will gain benefit from a better GPU. In that case you probably will need more than 32gb or ram anyways.

 

[smirking]

Don’t work in that way. From a dev perspective, isn’t about how many gpu cores the average people have.

Well, I don't understand how any of this works, but I do know that there are programs that I expected to leverage GPU resources heavily, but don't. I'm assuming that's because the developers didn't find it worth their time to pursue a system strategy that would rely more on GPU resources than on CPU resources if they expect most of their users to be GPU deficient. That's what I meant.

 

[PsykX]

It is absolutely native. It's a lobotomised version of iTunes.

The Music Store in iTunes has never been native, always been an HTML page.
They basically based the Apple Music experience on this on macOS, which is awful.
Or maybe you're talking about having your own music files ? Then yes, this part has always been native.

 

[salvatore.p]

Well, I don't understand how any of this works, but I do know that there are programs that I expected to leverage GPU resources heavily, but don't. I'm assuming that's because the developers didn't find it worth their time to pursue a system strategy that would rely more on GPU resources than on CPU resources if they expect most of their users to be GPU deficient. That's what I meant.

If your actual GPU isn’t maxed by a specific application, it means that the extra resources aren’t needed.

As a developer, when I need to compute expansive functions with the GPU I usually not specify what amount of GPU resources I want. I don’t know the spec of the machine running my application, is the operating systems that allocates the available resources. Moreover, if it was possible I will always request the maximum available.

Also, as I said, not every task can gain advantage of running on GPU. There are more technical stuff and limitation to examine.
For example, processing arithmetic operations of vectors is often faster with Accelerate framework (witch users vector-processing capability of the CPU).

That said, if the 32 cores of the M1 Max GPU is overkill for your actual workflow, it will be overkill also for the next 3-5 years.

You should definitely prefer adding ram over gpu power if that extra power isn’t needed. Extra ram is always used by the operating, even to cache stuff instead of swapping to the ssd.

 

[PsykX]

I have the M1 MBA with 8 GB RAM and M1 mini with 16 GB RAM.
Mini is ok but I still keep getting the running out of memory notices now and then.

Here's my guess : You were most likely on the macOS Monterey betas or you installed it as soon as it went out to the public.

I was totally fine in Big Sur with 8GB and I have quite an intensive workflow. In Monterey, I regretted having bought so little RAM. Once I disabled the custom mouse cursor color in Accessibility two weeks ago, things went back to normal. My memory pressure indicator is almost always green. This feature causes a memory leak every time your cursor changes in a given app.

 

[aevan]

I believe that is primarily because of 64-bit computing and how it has been the standard for a while now.

Definitely agree with your post but in my case I have no idea how much I need, and it very well may be more than 16GB. I’m going to be using Pro Tools (the DAW) commercially. Their system requirements say “16GB RAM (32GB or more recommended).” I’m so confused because that kinda scares me into going with 64GB but at the same time I’ve seen a ton of people on forums who work in Pro Tools for a living saying it runs just fine with 16. If I go for the 64GB model and don’t end up needing it, that’s going to be a costly mistake. :s

Well, you seem to have a memory-demanding workflow. If 32Gb is recommended, then 32 is something you should probably get. As for 64 - is there someone working on similar tools that can give you advice? Based on what the requirements say (16 required, 32 recommended) I doubt you will need more anytime soon, especially since the upgrade is costly. But, of course, try and consult with people working on similar tasks professionaly.

No one here knows your exact workflow - or anyone elses. That's why these assumptions (X isn't enough, X is too much) are so relative. My only claim is - you don't need 32 for browsing, smoothness or many demanding workflows (that even include things like 3D). However, we've also had someone on these forums who has a text file taking 62Gb RAM (I have to say, that was impressive to see) so - you never know how much you end up needing. But this place has a tendency to overestimate everyone needs way too much.

I wonder if we ever get 128Gb laptops, would people buy them to open browser tabs.

 

[ASX]

I experienced slow done while browsing on 16 gb ram versions, because of 20+ open browser tabs. It was allocating 12- 13 gb of ram + 1.3 gb reserved.
I bought the m1 max 32 gb version and its working much better, without bad delays.

 

[krspkbl]

My current PC has 32GB RAM (+ 8GB VRAM) but when I get a Mac I think i'll be fine with 16GB. I only went with 32GB because I built my PC for gaming. I won't be gaming on a Mac lol.

I feel that 8GB is not enough for any system in 2021. I had 8GB RAM in my MacBook in 2010. 16GB is probably the best option. If you want to future proof or if you know you'll need that much then get 32GB. 64GB is beyond future proofing...you should only get that much if you know that's what you need.

I experienced slow done while browsing on 16 ram versions, because of 20+ open browser tabs. It was allocating 12- 13 gb of ram + 1.3 gb reserved.
I bought the m1 max 32 gb version and its working much better, without bad delays.

what browser? safari?

12-13GB is a LOT. my PC is using exactly 6.0GB with 23 tabs open right now but i am running Firefox.

i thought MacOS/Safari was more efficient than that...damn lol

 

[ASX]

Safari and Chrome doesn't make a difference. Sadly macos is behaving very memory consuming. The macos after bootup, without starting any apps is consuming 5.X gb ram. For a linux based system pretty much.

And without 32 gb ram it's slowing down. Then the snappiness of the m1 is gone and you think that's a cheap entry level cpu.

My windows pc is using also 10 gb of ram, but the ram is much cheaper and upgredable and not shared with gpu (3090 has it's own 24 gb gddr6x ram):

https://abload.de/img/windowspcbnjyu.jpg

 

[BigMac?]

Hence, why spend more than double the price for these machine to gain small improvements?
I'm generalizing here, of course.
But my impression is that most of the people who keep posting against getting extra ram simply don't need a professional machine.

You are reading my mind.

 

[Shirasaki]

120 likes and 9 pages of comments. OK......
To me, RAM is more important than ever simply because nowadays 8GB is barely enough to do anything remotely serious. Granted, Windows doesn't handle the RAM the same way as macOS, but modern games frequently asks 4GB minimum of idle memory to run somewhat smoothly.
With that being said, I'd still suggest people with enough budget to consider going for 32GB. Browser tab eats RAM like lunch until you reach 2TB RAM territory or something crazy like that. It's like a house. No matter how you organise your interior, you only have so much space to work with. Leaving a bit of wiggle room when possible definitely can help prolong the life of devices you purchased today.
Youtubers do tests about video creation and nothing much else. Only so many people create videos intensively on a daily basis. I'd argue they already know what they would need beforehand so they will pick the amount they believe suitable. I am not saying you need to "future proof" your computer by going for a $6000 16" MacBook Pro. That's a poor financial choice if you don't know what you are doing. However, going one step above could pay you off here and there during the lifespan of your purchase.
The conclusion is: make as informed decision as possible. Don't take my words, don't take OPs words, take your own experience as the ultimate guidance on what you should pick. For example, going for a 256GB iPhone so that you no longer need to waste time micromanaging storage would be a good trade-off for that extra.