PSA: you probably don’t need 32 or 64Gb RAM unless you know you need it.

[ctjack]

And my memory pressure stayed reassuringly low and green

And that is the most important thing. We (i personally) don't have problems with "lazy swaps" - let them be. "Bad swaps" occur when your memory pressure is yellow or red. That is what we try to avoid here. You are lucky, now you can safely opt-in for 16Gb. Others are still contemplating their usage and RAM size.
Myself included, cause i don't have 16Gb machine to test my needs. So i have to make my best guess.

 

[tdbrown75]

IMO, the software has not yet been upgraded to effectively use 32GB RAM or 64GB RAM or the larger GPU cores. Some use it a little but are not optimized for it.

Key words, “not yet”.

Tim

 

[Pro Apple Silicon]

you're right but he did make a case for consumerism. it's when want dips its toes into need.

That's perfectly fine and really shouldn't even factor into the conversation. People who want the best regardless of what they need are not the people making 20 threads a day about "do I need x RAM". Those are the people who are trying to save money on the purchase and are duped into thinking they need more than 16 GB.

I'd couch it like this:

8 GB: All of the every day folks: no one using professional apps regularly.
16 GB: Just about everyone else. Including those doing professional work.
32 GB: Those doing heavy work with lots of apps and/or RAM sensitive workloads, plus running a VM occasionally.
64 GB: Anyone running more than one VM routinely.

 

[Queen6]

View attachment 1900039
Should I upgrade to 32 gb of memory? LOL

27.5 MB of Swap, might need to stretch to 64gb RAM lest some here worry LOL...

Q-6

 

[PsykX]

Given how terrible the Music app is in 10.15 and on, I would think you would need a M1 Max and 64GB of ram just to scroll the library smoothly.

The magic of web apps 🌈
Seriously, I don't know why the Music app isn't native. It's an awful experience.

But yes the OP is right. Apple found the sweet spot at 16GB for the entry Pro model, I think it'll be perfect for 80% of the Pros out there.

I would rather invest in the SSD but maybe even better : in the GPU.
I bought an external SSD and put my secondary accounts in it. Much less expensive than Apple's prices.

 

[Spanky Deluxe]

The guy in the video that OP linked didn't seem to be doing any actual multi tasking. He's just switching between active apps with 5 or 6 tabs open in a browser. If you're just doing one task at a time then even in pro apps, 16GB is going to be more than enough. If you're rendering something in one window and browsing in another then that's when you're going to start running into problems. Modern operating systems are more than capable of switching between different apps, running basically one at a time with minimal background stuff and 16GB is definitely fine for that. 8GB not so much with how much of a memory hog browsers can be these days. The general point is right though, 16GB is going to be enough for most people buying the MacBook Pro but then I don't really know who this 'PSA' is for. If you do memory intensive multi tasking then you're going to know that 16GB is likely not going to be enough, certainly not in a few years' time. If you don't do memory intensive multi-tasking stuff then you're probably not even going to question if 16GB is enough and will just buy the stock model.

 

[arvinsim]

Title should be changed to

PSA: you probably don’t need any of the new M1 Pro/Max Macbooks unless you know you need it. The M1 Macbooks are probably enough for you.​

 

[arvinsim]

To those hemming and hawing between 16GB and 32GB RAM because they want to see if they can save money: Replace those endless hours contemplating with overtime work and earn more. Then buy the 32GB.

 

[Jára Tyky]

I would rather invest in the SSD but maybe even better : in the GPU.
I bought an external SSD and put my secondary accounts in it. Much less expensive than Apple's prices.

You should invest in everything..

 

[PsykX]

You should invest in everything..

Especially AAPL

 

[Jára Tyky]

Especially AAPL

Coinbase better

 

[theluggage]

16gb is not the new 8gb. 16gb is still plenty, and 32gb is excessive unless you have a special need for it, in which you know what that is.

Nor is 8GB the new 16GB... especially on a machine that would previously have had 4-8GB of dedicated video RAM.

The efficiency savings due to "unified memory" seem to be highly dependent on exactly what you are doing.

Nor should it be "well, my 16GB M1 Pro is still faster than my 32GB Intel" - the comparison should be with a 32GB M1 Pro. If your M1 Mac is swapping heavily then it is being slowed down c.f. working directly with RAM: even the super-efficient SSD on a M1 is still an order of magnitude slower than RAM.

The question is why should we have to agonise over whether we can justify 32GB? It's 2021 and an upgrade from 16GB to 32GB of RAM shouldn't cost $400. Now, it's hard to find the cost of LPDDR5 RAM, since it's not really a consumer product, but if you go look at the Intel Mini or Intel iMac then Apple want exactly the same $200-per-8GB for bog standard SODIMMs that cost about $30 per 8GB retail (heaven knows what sort of wholesale deal a manufacturer the size of Apple gets). That's a ludicrous markup - so I'm not going to give Apple the benefit of the doubt and assume that the extra cost of LPDDR5 justifies the price. And, yes, other manufacturers gouge on BTO upgrades but Apple really are in the premiere league of gougers (Dell seem to charge about $150 for 16GB extra, smaller builders often just charge the retail cost of the DIMMs - again. forget LPDDR for the moment and remember that Apple charges $200-per-8GB even for DDR4 DIMMS).

Now, I don't think the base prices of the M1 Pro and Max MBPs are too bad - the $2700 16" with 16GB RAM and 1TB super-fast SSD is about what I paid for my 17" MBP with 4GB and spinning rust in 2011, even before inflation - but throwing in an extra 16GB of RAM shouldn't add $400.

 

[ctjack]

but throwing in an extra 16GB of RAM shouldn't add $400.

Tim is not Steve anymore, he is a financial alligator. Did you know that the least Apple makes is on standard Iphone 13 mini and 2nd place is regular 13. Anytime you go with 13Pro or Pro max you are paying extra premium to Apple(just like $400 for RAM).
It is all about capturing the most willingness to pay out of people.

 

[Justo_McGusto]

Im not as techy as others in here reading into special coding/files to see I have a "memory leak", but the 8gb on my 2015 MacBook Pro was constantly bogging down with error messages saying I was out of system memory just from things as simple as having a bunch of safari windows/tabs open and maybe like Photos open in the background or something silly. Aside from just surfing safari (with way too many tabs open to refer back to, lol) or chart work, I really only use my computer for photos, with the rare occasional video. On my early 2015 MBP with 8gb ram I would have to close down literally everything to use Lightroom, and no chance in hell I could use Lightroom and Photoshop simultaneously. The "5.7k" 360* video footage I have from my insta360 camera could never even PLAY on my laptop (nothing but pixel block chop with the fans kicking on louder than I've ever heard in all my years owning that laptop until it would completely freeze [I don't even think I realized it had fans until that point 😳🤣]), much less actually edit any of that footage. So I went went 32gb ram on the 16" max, and questioning if I should have gone with 64gb to future proof it, and now see this thread..? 🤔
(also went with 32 core GPU so I wouldn't have any problems with things like my 5.7k 360* video footage, not knowing what to expect between 16-24-32 core GPUs coming from the integrated GPU on my 2015, and wondering if I didn't overdo it there, but ah well).

 

[filmbuff]

Im not as techy as others in here reading into special coding/files to see I have a "memory leak", but the 8gb on my 2015 MacBook Pro was constantly bogging down with error messages saying I was out of system memory just from things as simple as having a bunch of safari windows/tabs open and maybe like Photos open in the background or something silly. Aside from just surfing safari (with way too many tabs open to refer back to, lol) or chart work, I really only use my computer for photos, with the rare occasional video. On my early 2015 MBP with 8gb ram I would have to close down literally everything to use Lightroom, and no chance in hell I could use Lightroom and Photoshop simultaneously. The "5.7k" 360* video footage I have from my insta360 camera could never even PLAY on my laptop (nothing but pixel block chop with the fans kicking on louder than I've ever heard in all my years owning that laptop until it would completely freeze [I don't even think I realized it had fans until that point 😳🤣]), much less actually edit any of that footage. So I went went 32gb ram on the 16" max, and questioning if I should have gone with 64gb to future proof it, and now see this thread..? 🤔
(also went with 32 core GPU so I wouldn't have any problems with things like my 5.7k 360* video footage, not knowing what to expect between 16-24-32 core GPUs coming from the integrated GPU on my 2015, and wondering if I didn't overdo it there, but ah well).

I have a 2018 13” MBP with 8GB and have never run out of memory the whole time I’ve used it. Editing (short) 4K videos, 25+ Chrome tabs open, never even seen the memory pressure go yellow. In fact the only time I’ve seen a system memory error on a Mac was using a 1994 Powerbook with 16MB RAM. There’s definitely something wrong with yours.

 

[Brenzo]

I have ZERO regrets paying to upgrade to 32GB. Right now I have one Excel file opened (<10 MB), Outlook, Spotify, Messages, and three Chrome windows with 8-10 tabs in each and I'm using 24 GB. Not once since I took possession last week has the OS force-closed applications due to running out of system memory. That was a repeat occurrence with my 16 GB M1 MBP and M1 Mac Mini

 

[HelloMikee]

The other day, I was really surprised to see a poll of people looking to buy the new MBP's and the largest group at the time ended up being people who surf the web, go on social media and watch videos. I was waiting for this machine to really enhance my workflow as a photographer and creative director. If I didn't use multiple graphic extensive apps, I would be a happy with the MacBook Air - I would be in the camp of thinner is better and would not be stressing about ram lol.

 

[AFK]

Nor is 8GB the new 16GB... especially on a machine that would previously have had 4-8GB of dedicated video RAM.

The efficiency savings due to "unified memory" seem to be highly dependent on exactly what you are doing.

Nor should it be "well, my 16GB M1 Pro is still faster than my 32GB Intel" - the comparison should be with a 32GB M1 Pro. If your M1 Mac is swapping heavily then it is being slowed down c.f. working directly with RAM: even the super-efficient SSD on a M1 is still an order of magnitude slower than RAM.

The question is why should we have to agonise over whether we can justify 32GB? It's 2021 and an upgrade from 16GB to 32GB of RAM shouldn't cost $400. Now, it's hard to find the cost of LPDDR5 RAM, since it's not really a consumer product, but if you go look at the Intel Mini or Intel iMac then Apple want exactly the same $200-per-8GB for bog standard SODIMMs that cost about $30 per 8GB retail (heaven knows what sort of wholesale deal a manufacturer the size of Apple gets). That's a ludicrous markup - so I'm not going to give Apple the benefit of the doubt and assume that the extra cost of LPDDR5 justifies the price. And, yes, other manufacturers gouge on BTO upgrades but Apple really are in the premiere league of gougers (Dell seem to charge about $150 for 16GB extra, smaller builders often just charge the retail cost of the DIMMs - again. forget LPDDR for the moment and remember that Apple charges $200-per-8GB even for DDR4 DIMMS).

Now, I don't think the base prices of the M1 Pro and Max MBPs are too bad - the $2700 16" with 16GB RAM and 1TB super-fast SSD is about what I paid for my 17" MBP with 4GB and spinning rust in 2011, even before inflation - but throwing in an extra 16GB of RAM shouldn't add $400.

many are overly evangelical about 16gb vs 32gb (god forbid, 64gb - bring out the pitchforks and get the bonfire ready!)

noticing a pattern. when people say they are getting or want a 32gb+ mbp, they start tip toeing around the issue, nervously listing and rationalizing why they want to spend their own hard earned money so that they don't get attacked by the magic memory crowd.

if people think they need 32gb+ then they need it whether it's pure fantasy. break me off a piece of that kitkat bar with the psa and helping people save money. the only psa i need is one that involves my prostate.

i dont give a poo. i'll defend anyone who wants 32gb+ whether they need it or not. your money, not my business.

 

[slowloris615]

Amen. I went 32GB because I need my MacBook for editing video for work (TV Shows). Most post houses I've worked at in NYC and LA had either 1st gen Mac Pro cheese graters or trash cans, usually with ram ranging from 24-48. I see YouTubers with 64GB of ram to edit and it is just a waste.

 

[baummer]

This thread is still going?

 

[Justo_McGusto]

I have a 2018 13” MBP with 8GB and have never run out of memory the whole time I’ve used it. Editing (short) 4K videos, 25+ Chrome tabs open, never even seen the memory pressure go yellow. In fact the only time I’ve seen a system memory error on a Mac was using a 1994 Powerbook with 16MB RAM. There’s definitely something wrong with yours.

I have no doubt something was wrong with it/running in the background using up my memory. I tried the Apple support website once and one of the Apple tech people there led me through downloading some root toolkit thing or something a couple years back to diagnose it and remove some files, which seemed to temporarily help, but the problem came back after not too long.
Anyways, your reply makes me feel better about 32gb being more than capable for what I need, so thanks!

 

[Justo_McGusto]

This thread is still going?

Lol, I just joined today but feel like a thread about the different GPU options would be more helpful/informative. Especially coming from old integrated mac graphics/being pretty illiterate towards real gpus outside of the hyped gaming/mining cards.

 

[svenmany]

One thing about this thread is that the opening post is wonderfully written. However, it's just an opinion piece, without facts or data to back it up. What has resulted is just another political divide. Since we are light on facts, most are just motivated by their basic intuition or desire to follow a leader with stronger opinions than their own. The problem is that it is a difficult topic and we just want to simplify it.

I remember that I used to be concerned when I saw a high memory usage in Activity Monitor, a number that approached my total memory. Then I read this http://hints.macworld.com/article.php?story=20010613140025184. It's out of date now, but it did show me that careful study is required to even begin to understand the topic.

I wish there was software that I could run to analyze my usage over the course of a year. Then I would want some actuarial type of software that could predict my future requirements. This is what my software does in the insurance industry. In some ways, buying memory is like buying insurance. It's very, very, very likely that you won't have to rebuild your house, but you still buy insurance. You just have to decide for yourself how much it will cost you if you guess wrong (in either direction).

 

[ahurst]

One easy way to think of it… if “10 GB dataset” is a term that’s foreign to you, something you’ve never said or don’t even understand what it means, you’re good with 16 GB

This is actually an important question that I haven't seen addressed yet: is the great memory performance of the 16 GB M1 Pro chips dependent on the individual objects in memory (e.g. photos) being small enough to easily swap from RAM to the SSD and back? If so, would someone working with large-ish datasets (multi-GB arrays in Numpy, large data frames in R) experience more performance issues dipping into virtual memory than the video and photo tasks showcased in the MaxTech video?

Trying to figure out whether the 32 GB is worth the extra $500 CAD for my use case.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

This is actually an important question that I haven't seen addressed yet: is the great memory performance of the 16 GB M1 Pro chips dependent on the individual objects in memory (e.g. photos) being small enough to easily swap from RAM to the SSD and back? If so, would someone working with large-ish datasets (multi-GB arrays in Numpy, large data frames in R) experience more performance issues dipping into virtual memory than the video and photo tasks showcased in the MaxTech video?

Trying to figure out whether the 32 GB is worth the extra $500 CAD for my use case.

If you’re dealing with massive data sizes 10 GB and up such that, for the application, the data HAS to reside in RAM, you will see a performance improvement between a 32 and 16 GB system. If this isn’t the case, you may still see a performance benefit with a 32 GB system (just because macOS uses whatever RAM is available), but not likely one that’s worth $500.

For example if one process is 100% faster than the other… but the “slow” process takes 14 nanoseconds, is that speed worth it? If, on a long running process taking many hours, you’re only saving 21 minutes, is that worth it?