"Psystar slaps Apple around, releases Mac clones with Blu-ray / GeForce 9800GT"

[NickolasSin]

I don't know... I really can't see my self shelling out this much cash for a clone. The resale value isn't there, and basically I could build the machine myself. Although Apple may use hardware that isn't always cutting edge, the package is always really nice. The MacPros case weighs how much? And there is always someone who wants a Mac bad, so you could throw your 2 year old MacPro up on ebay and still pull in wayyy over a grand, close to two actually. That to me says something... because these clones will be worthless in two years.

 

[hogfaninga]

I don't know... I really can't see my self shelling out this much cash for a clone. The resale value isn't there, and basically I could build the machine myself. Although Apple may use hardware that isn't always cutting edge, the package is always really nice. The MacPros case weighs how much? And there is always someone who wants a Mac bad, so you could throw your 2 year old MacPro up on ebay and still pull in wayyy over a grand, close to two actually. That to me says something... because these clones will be worthless in two years.

Some people could careless about resale value. I hold on to my computers until they die or I pass them on to a family member or friend who needs one.

I hope Apple loses this suit. If they do then they might be forced to make their computers better and with more options which would benefit us all.

 

[corinhorn]

If Apple wants to control everything, they need to be on the cutting edge.

I'm not convinced that Apple wants to control everything. They have used their current method of operation for years and are unlikely to change anytime soon.

Not offering Blu-ray as an option is a disservice to their loyal fans.

I don't think it is a disservice. Blu-ray still has yet to prove itself as the next optical standard. Yes, Blu-ray is superior to DVD, but before it can be declared as standard, there needs to be more marketwide adoption from average consumers. Other than tech forums, I have not heard loud cries for Blu-ray adoption from average consumers.

Companies like Psystar may at least shake Apple up in to offering the latest technology, not only bits and pieces when they feel like it.

First off, I doubt that Psystar's decisions and its products will influence what Apple produces. Secondly, Apple has never been one to slap every bit of technology on every one of its machines. Steve Jobs recently said that Apple can't be everything to everyone. Yes, I do wish Apple would include this and that, but as a consumer, I have options other than Apple.

 

[sterlingindigo]

I was really expecting Psystar would get the smack down from Apple. Alternative resolution must mean Psystar may have something. Interesting.

 

[plokoonpma]

Because it's the only way to reliably and easily get OSX. You want OSX, you get shafted by out-dated, feature poor, options light machines with questionable design and pay far FAR more than any equiv PC hardware.

To legitimately use OSX - you have to bend over and get shafted by Apple with second rate, premium price hardware.

I've had enough of it.

Doug

Don't buy it! Who is pointing a gun at you?
Apple products have things like value that weight more than cheap boxes. Also is about the people who likes and use Apple products.
But if you want crap, there is a whole universe of windows based products.

 

[Voltaic]

What you Apple bigots (I used to be one) and Apple itself don't get is that there is a real issue here. I am sure all of us complaining in these forums would rather not be doing so. After too many years (15+ in my case) of buying underperforming or overpriced Macs, or both, some of us are just fed up.

Some of us were there to support Apple during its darkest hours. I don't expect any recognition nor favors from Apple, it is a business. I do expect to be treated with a degree of respect and to have my needs heard.

Some of us are looking at the industry as a whole, frankly Apple is not giving a large portion of the market, its own market, what it needs. Furthermore, it is resisting clear and very good industry standards, such as eSATA and Blu-Ray. By the way, I personally like Blu-Ray becouse of its tremendous data storage potential currently at 50GB, 500GB+ per disk in the near future.

These past few years, even before it was announced, Apple has had its head deep in its own "iPhone" ass. So deep it seems, we are getting 12 to 18 month product refreshes, 4+ years in the monitors line. The Mac Pro is indeed a great design particularly inside, but come on. This dangerous "neglect" is spilling over to the software side, even the most basic. The last refresh for iLife (a lame one if you ask me) took nearly 18 months, we are now beyond 12 months for iLife '09, or will it be '10? iWork shows great potential, but it is so "unfinished", buggy and "phat" it is amazing Apple charges for it.

Anyway, I was just trying to make a point and got sidetracked by the very issue. Apple is neglecting a large part, and in some cases 100%, of its core business. I am fed up. I need a Mac that gives me what I need (none at the moment do) at a price I can and I am willing to pay.

 

[pdjudd]

I was really expecting Psystar would get the smack down from Apple. Alternative resolution must mean Psystar may have something. Interesting.

Alternate resolution is a normal part of any Civil lawsuit in California. As it has been stated several times before, it does not mean anybody has anything. The judge merely orders that they go into non binding negotiations in an attempt to ensure that a drawn out case does not occur unless necessary.

 

[slackpacker]

They only reason Apple avoids blue-ray is not the contract issue. (Unless apple wants it their way only) It is because they see it as a threat if they put it in. The the HD movies you can download from their iTunes will drop. I love apple, but it pissed me off when SJ responded about not needing blue-ray to watch movies since you can download HD movies. Well, I would rather have the player so I can load my own movies when I want. Furthermore, I can watch it wherever I have a player and don't have to have the ATV or take up hard drive space.

Come on apple, release blue-ray.

What Apple and Steve are saying is that.... Apple has spent Millions of dollars on a Downloadable HD Shows. Steve thinks Disc Blu-Ray & DVD's Days are numbered. I agree with him. Look at NetFlix, HULU and others. There are some great benifits for the HOME with Blu-Ray such as Surround Sound but on a laptop or my computer I could care less about that since I'm wearing headphones. (and don't mention surround sound headphones they suck)

Blu-Ray is just another format that will fall to the wayside in a few years... as digital distribution takes over.

 

[takao]

You got the facts totally wrong. Lambos came alive cause its founder got pissed at Enzo Ferrari and his faulty clutch on Mr. Lamborghini Ferari. Then he transformed his tractor factory and started from scratch. New everything, including engines. The Ferrari engines that they had was used as benchmark so they can build something better.

For Apple hardware... are you serious? Dell would sell all their employees mons to have OS X but that will never happen. Dell is only a huge clone maker.
Expensive Apple Care? lol Take a look on "complete care"
If you don't like Apple so much why you bother. Get a Hell, I mean Dell and spend 45 minutes on hold everytime you want something after you make your buy or go get your hackingtosh and be happy until it brake apart or something goes wrong. I doubt Psystar has a software team in charge to optimize the system, support that Blue Ray or 9800GT. Mac OS X is designed only to run at 110% in their machines. So what is all the buzz about unsupported hardware.

funny how i complain about the constant "go buy a dell" and you turn around and counter that with exactly that

funnily enough not a single of my own built pcs have ever broken.. because after all i know where to compromise and where to choose quality .. opposed to apple

osx designed to run at 110% in their machines ? that's why still no hardware acceleration for HD videos despite the built in gpus supporting it .. for free on the windows side with apple you have to pay for it with snow leopard very likely
also the very same chips support hdcp compliance which os x still doesn't support .. for a company who claimed "year of HD", "our computers are media hubs" etc. hardly a masterpiece

e-sata ? unheard of in apple HQ despite outperforming firewire by far .. and available since years

that said for other OEM services: the only time i needed service was with our old PC in 2000: and our computer stayed at our home and a technician came over to fix it (broken PSU)
and on general warrenties are longer on the PC side .. a friend bought his fujitsu siemens and he got 3 years of warranty .. pick up warranty that is.. without paying extra for it... other laptops come with 2 years on the system across the board

also apple hardware has become more closed over time: with the g4 tower and the g5 imac they advertized how easy everything was to access and now ? not very user friendly to me

same with adapter galore instead of providing multiple outputs

also apples arrogance to not use desktop chips is hindering them as well

 

[dukebound85]

What Apple and Steve are saying is that.... Apple has spent Millions of dollars on a Downloadable HD Shows. Steve thinks Disc Blu-Ray & DVD's Days are numbered. I agree with him. Look at NetFlix, HULU and others. There are some great benifits for the HOME with Blu-Ray such as Surround Sound but on a laptop or my computer I could care less about that since I'm wearing headphones. (and don't mention surround sound headphones they suck)

Blu-Ray is just another format that will fall to the wayside in a few years... as digital distribution takes over.

and you know this how again??

what about people who want hidef yet dont want to play everything through a stupid computer....

i want blu-ray for backup. i realize hd's are cheap now but i want a STATIC backup medium as a failsafe

 

[corinhorn]

Blu-Ray is just another format that will fall to the wayside in a few years... as digital distribution takes over.

I have a hunch that this may come to pass. The format war may have lasted too long for Blu-ray to ever have success. While waiting for the silly format war to end, consumers of HD content may have moved on to other means to get HD. Plus with the current economic turmoil, many consumers may never adopt the costly Blu-ray technology.

 

[pdjudd]

Secondly, Apple has never been one to slap every bit of technology on every one of its machines. Steve Jobs recently said that Apple can't be everything to everyone. Yes, I do wish Apple would include this and that, but as a consumer, I have options other than Apple.

This is something that people forget. While you can certainly say "I wish that Apple would make product x", it does not mean that you can use Apple's intellectual property to make such a thing nor does it force Apple to make such a thing. Apple makes and sells what they want to like any other company. If they do not make a product that you want or need, than go with a company that does. Now these decisions can often involve some unfortunate compromises (using Windows for example), but that is the nature of the market.

I understand the desire for people to have the best of both worlds here, but it doesn't always work out that way. Apple's OS is their intellectual property and you cannot make a business model out of it without approval from the IP holder. If Apple does not want to enter into a particular market, it is their choice to do so provided that it does not restrict open competition. Fact is, there are multiple operating sytems out there.

Suppose I wanted to make an adult (pornogrpahic) game for the Wii that explaoits their wiimote control in a way that cannot be accomplished by another console maker. Obviously I cannot go to anybody else and obviously Nintendo is not going to grant me permission to distribute my title on their system (they do not allow Adult oriented games). I can argue all I want that a market exists for such titles that utilize all the advantages and popularities of the Wii, but if Nintendo does not wish to enter into business with me, that does not give me the right to make a business out of hacking Wii systems or advertising my wares as compatable with the Wii without Nintendo's OK. Nintendo may have a Monopoly on the Wii system and certain parts to it, but that doesn't mean that they have to endorse any business model that myself or anybody else wants to.

People may want Apple to engage in different markets. So do I. But right now Apple gets to decide how they sell their IP.

 

[MrJingles]

In other words, you would like to pay more for Apple equipment. Why would anyone not want a competitor for Apple's hardware? Apple's product may be more appealing to the eye, but I think paying less for higher performing hardware is a better deal.

Also, I'd rather have a competitor in the hardware arena, and pay more for OS X. Even if I had to pay $300 for the OS, I would still come out cheaper in the end.

That has been my current problem with Apple. I don't need a MacPro and I don't want an iMac AIO so my choices are A)Buy refurb/used MacPro off the net and still pay 2,500+ or B) Build a PC for 1,300, put 8GB of ram and go back to the dreaded windows.

 

[michelepri]

Apple equipment is becoming overpriced and neglected. Their notebooks are only an example of how much they are behind. But Blu-ray is dead technology. They might have had a chance when they started their fight with HDDVD, but now, any mechanical spinning disk is old news. Who wants this stuf when you can get better quality in download? Blu-ray is slow, expensive, over protected... I wish macbooks had no DVD player at all.

 

[rhpenguin]

That has been my current problem with Apple. I don't need a MacPro and I don't want an iMac AIO so my choices are A)Buy refurb/used MacPro off the net and still pay 2,500+ or B) Build a PC for 1,300, put 8GB of ram and go back to the dreaded windows.

Option C) go to OSX86 wiki, spec out parts.. go to insanelymac.com and do some reading. Enjoy said PC with OS X.

 

[Mal]

They don't.

Just because it doesn't appear that anyone has corrected you yet, Psystar most certainly does sell machines with OS X installed (and an unopened copy tossed into the box too, which certainly should raise some eyebrows).

http://store.psystar.com/open-osx.html

jW

 

[Rod76]

I've enjoyed the thoughts put forward by this thread, both pro and against. But for me this comes down to one issues and the only way I can convey it is by comparing it to hacking the iPhone to run on T-Mobile. I really, really like my iPhone, however this chasing the monkey of can I/should I update, and what consequences will it have is getting old.

I'm a huge proponent of Occam's Razor/Law of Parsimony, so every time my iPhone does something stupid it's frustrating to peg who's to blame, Apple or iPhone Dev Team. In the past they've both been directly responsible for serious issues with the phone. It would be really nice if I could just point my finger at one.

All that diatribe aside to say this, from my experiences with modifying my iPhone for T-Mobile I can conclude that I would not use a Psystar computer at any cost. I just don't have the time or energy to play with the higher number of permutations the setup would introduce when dealing with "issues."

As is, I'm seriously considering switching my nearly 10 year old T-Mobile plan to AT&T to avoid all the phone issues that I'm tired of spending time on. There really is something to be said for "it just works."

The saved time from troubleshooting more variables is definitely worth the "Mac Tax" for me. I just don't have the disposable time to chase the updates and read the boards or instructions to do so!

I've fought the Mid Tower battle internally and externally (on this very board if memory serves). I just can't bring myself to do it, so I'll just buy the Apple computer that I need, when I need it and deal with whatever "lack" that that machine might carry when compared to others on the market. I just can't fathom going back to a made for Windows machine at any cost, even if it's possible to run OS X on it.

 

[slackpacker]

and you know this how again??

what about people who want hidef yet dont want to play everything through a stupid computer....

i want blu-ray for backup. i realize hd's are cheap now but i want a STATIC backup medium as a failsafe

Blu-Ray is like a large DVD.... it will fail if scratched. Also Burning takes foreever now and there are to many issues while burning that could cause issues and make the Burn Fail....

 

[dukebound85]

Blu-Ray is like a large DVD.... it will fail if scratched. Also Burning takes foreever now and there are to many issues while burning that could cause issues and make the Burn Fail....

by your logic, dvd burners are useless then as they can get scratched lol

funny thing with tech, it will get faster to burn blu-ray as it matures. also blu-ray has a scratch resistant coating on them

 

[editguy]

I've fought the Mid Tower battle internally and externally (on this very board if memory serves). I just can't bring myself to do it, so I'll just buy the Apple computer that I need, when I need it and deal with whatever "lack" that that machine might carry when compared to others on the market. I just can't fathom going back to a made for Windows machine at any cost, even if it's possible to run OS X on it.

That's the point, though. I can't buy the computer I need when Apple decides to either quit making it (updated MB that lost the firewire) or doesn't make it at all. If Apple filled the hole in their line of desktops Psystar wouldn't exist. Additionally, if you have an Intel Mac, you're using a "made for Windows machine".

 

[eastcoastsurfer]

Apple is neglecting a large part, and in some cases 100%, of its core business.

When the iPhone was announced it was clear to me what Apple's core business had become - little consumer electronic devices. iPods and now iPhones ARE Apples core business. Computers at this point are just an after thought. Sad too, since OSX really shows a lot of promise.

 

[djellison]

.
But if you want crap,

Like an £1100 laptop without firewire, a proprietory display port which needs £90 of adaptors to be of ANY use, and a mirror for a display?

Clearly some people can't understand the following, very very simple sentence.


"I like and want to use OSX, but I don't like Apple hardware*"

* there are LOTS of different reasons for that. For many - it's the price ( anyone pretending that £1150 for the MB is acceptable or £1700+ for the MBP ). For others, me in particular - they don't make what I want - a sub-notebook, or a single-cpu desktop - nothing in that product-bracket at all.

This is why I congratulate Psystar and wish them well. They're doing what Apple singularly refuses to do - offer performance and value.

Doug

 

[nplima]

Option C) go to OSX86 wiki, spec out parts.. go to insanelymac.com and do some reading. Enjoy said PC with OS X.

d) pick any Linux distribution you like with your choice of hardware. If the software you like is not available, campaign for it or finance developers directly instead of waiting for the iPod company to build the product you need.

 

[rhpenguin]

d) pick any Linux distribution you like with your choice of hardware. If the software you like is not available, campaign for it or finance developers directly instead of waiting for the iPod company to build the product you need.

Also a good call.. But if Adobe can't even offer a 64bit flash for Linux, I'm not holding out for the Creative Suite.

OS X = Unix with commercial support. (and quite possibly the only good thing about Apple)

 

[pdjudd]

d) pick any Linux distribution you like with your choice of hardware. If the software you like is not available, campaign for it or finance developers directly instead of waiting for the iPod company to build the product you need.

Or E) Create your own operating system (sure it would be tough). If the market does not not exist to fulfill your needs, either adjust your needs or create your own product on your own laurels.

If Apple does not offer what you want and they do not listen to your needs, than buy another product and let Apple know they have lost a customer. You always have a choice. Vote with your wallet, not by stealing IP.