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djellison

macrumors 68020
Feb 2, 2007
2,229
4
Pasadena CA
If it's such a huge issue, why can Acer, Asus, and HP do it?

It isn't an issue. I spent £130 and put a blu-ray burner in my PC. I use it to watch BluRay movies, do large backups, and archive photos/videos incase I have a crash, and a backup crash.

Job's claiming it's a world of hurt is a complete and utter lie. Those words were like a smack in the face to be honest. They were the point at which I decided I just don't like Apple anymore. No bluray, no higher res screens, , extortionate prices, proprietary display ports requiring £90 of adaptors, dumping a $1 part like the remote, glossy-as-hell displays, no firewire etc etc etc. AND pretending there's some 'hurt' reason why they can't do Bluray. Robbing us, giving us sub-grade products, and lying to us. All this stupidity and so many many reasons not to buy Apple...and just ONE...OSX...to buy. So that is why, as it is possible to do so, I am prepared to buy the OS, but no longer I am happy to buy the hardware.

Enough is enough.
 

BenRoethig

macrumors 68030
Jul 17, 2002
2,729
0
Dubuque, Iowa
Furthermore, I can not see how Apple's EULA as not being binding for a company. Nobody has seriously answered this basic question which has already been asked before and not just by me: If Apple's EULA was not illegal than why has Dell (Michael Dell has made it clear that he would love to sell Mac Clones) not done so? I postulate that Dell is very aware that they cannot violate Apple's licensing terms even when Dell makes more money than Apple does. Dell has lawyers who could have challenged this years ago if it had any chance of success - they know it will not.

Dell sells most of its machines to corporations and institutions. Their customer will not buy anything that doesn't have full support. Sure Dell could make unauthorized Mac clones, but it doesn't make any business sense to do so. With a "basement" company like psystar, you do not expect exactly he great level of support if any.

As for the EULA, under U.S. contract law the full terms of the contract must be given before consent. If those terms change after money has changed hands, either both parties have to agree on changes, or there must be a clause that one party has the right to change the deal. Therefore, for the EULA to be valid, Apple must either provide you with a copy of the EULA before hand or must refund your money. When I buy software, there is no mention of the EULA on the box and except for Apple's own stores, there is no option of a refund should you not agree to the terms.
 

illegalprelude

macrumors 68000
Mar 10, 2005
1,583
120
Los Angeles, California
It isn't an issue. I spent £130 and put a blu-ray burner in my PC. I use it to watch BluRay movies, do large backups, and archive photos/videos incase I have a crash, and a backup crash.

Job's claiming it's a world of hurt is a complete and utter lie. Those words were like a smack in the face to be honest. They were the point at which I decided I just don't like Apple anymore. No bluray, no higher res screens, , extortionate prices, proprietary display ports requiring £90 of adaptors, dumping a $1 part like the remote, glossy-as-hell displays, no firewire etc etc etc. AND pretending there's some 'hurt' reason why they can't do Bluray. Robbing us, giving us sub-grade products, and lying to us. All this stupidity and so many many reasons not to buy Apple...and just ONE...OSX...to buy. So that is why, as it is possible to do so, I am prepared to buy the OS, but no longer I am happy to buy the hardware.

Enough is enough.

I couldnt agree more with the notion. The whole Blu-ray thing is a lie. The only real answer is this, Blu-ray players cost more and it would drop Apples profit margins on their laptop. Its the ONLY answer.
 

matticus008

macrumors 68040
Jan 16, 2005
3,330
1
Bay Area, CA
i mean i bought osx and put it on a computer. did i steal anything? no. break the eula? yes but guess what, the eula is not "law" and has been proven not to hold up in court as you cant agree to it before you buy it.
While anyone who would take the legal advice of a person who uses neither apostrophes nor capital letters is obviously foolish, I can't resist. Where has this been "proven"?
the law comes down to whether eulas are enforeable and they have been shown not to be in many instances
No. There is no question about whether SLAs are enforceable. None. The reason you know this is because no court in any jurisdiction has ever issued an opinion that reads like this: "We see here an attempt to enforce the terms of an EULA. EULAs are not enforceable. Case dismissed."

Indeed, all cases go exactly the opposite way, and just recently we had Jacobsen v. Katzer which held that open source licenses are just as enforceable as proprietary software licenses. You cannot have one without the other, and you can't have the Katzer opinion without the basic premise that license agreements are legally binding. It is true that many provisions that commonly appear in such licenses cannot be enacted in an adhesive contract, and that these provisions are commonly stricken. But this does not make the entire document unenforceable.
I <3 you. Finally someone who gets it and isn't afraid to say it.
Ha.
I suppose the class-action lawsuit against apple is fiction, then.
The class-action lawsuit changes what, exactly? Does the complaint allege that Apple claimed an 8-bit panel was installed? Does it allege that other manufacturers don't advertise in the same way, or that Apple advertised with intent to deceive? Does it allege that there are panels in existence that could have been used with more colors? Does it establish that customers relied on that advertising to their detriment? Has it been established that industry conventions were broken, or that the creation of colors by dithering is impermissible? Is anything in the complaint demonstrated to be legally actionable?

Hint: the answer is 'no' for all of those. Kids today.
 

ppc750fx

macrumors 65816
Aug 20, 2008
1,308
4
It isn't an issue. I spent £130 and put a blu-ray burner in my PC. I use it to watch BluRay movies, do large backups, and archive photos/videos incase I have a crash, and a backup crash.

Licensing Bluray to build in to several million computers per year is quite different than you slapping some cheapo Bluray drive into your machine. There's a huge difference between retail and OEM parts, both in terms of price and licensing/legal wrangling.

extortionate prices

Extortionate prices? Really? No, Apple isn't the cheapest manufacturer out there, but calling a one to two hundred dollar price premium extortionate is exaggerating just a little bit, no? Also, do you know what extortion is? Charging more for a premium product that people want is not extortion.

proprietary display ports requiring £90 of adaptors

DisplayPort is a standard. True, it'll be a while before it sees market adoption, but it's not a proprietary port. The DisplayPort standard was approved back in 2006 (the most recent revision, 1.1a in 2008), and has the support of 20+ major equipment manufacturers. Also, the adapter for VGA or single DVI isn't $180 -- the dual DVI one is $90, but the adapters that the majority of consumers will be using don't cost anywhere near that. Of course you only need the adapter if you're connecting to a monitor that doesn't support DisplayPort...

dumping a $1 part like the remote

I'll give you that. It's too bad there's no free remote. Granted, you can pick one up on eBay and the like for $5, but it'd still be nice to get one with your Mac. That said, the loss of a remote is hardly a reason to dump a manufacturer -- at least not for most people.

glossy-as-hell displays

I'm not gonna dispute the pros and cons of a glossy display here. Suffice to say that Apple wouldn't do it if the majority of their customers didn't find it attractive. If it really bothers you, you can fix it for about $40 (PowerSupport makes some excellent matte overlays that produce results indistinguishable from an older matte display). That said, most of the industry is moving to glossy displays for consumer machines, so it's not like it's some wacky Apple-only idea...

no firewire

Apple dropped Firewire from their consumer notebook. You're right about that. Of course they still support it on their Pro lines, so it's not like they just removed it overnight. It's not ideal, and I wish they hadn't, but most consumers (i.e. most of the people buying MacBooks) don't even know what the hell Firewire is, let alone care that it's absent. Apple's consumer line is designed to cater to the majority of their consumer market -- and that majority wants a cheaper laptop that connects to their existing devices, a role that the new MacBook fills just fine.

Robbing us, giving us sub-grade products, and lying to us.

Exaggeration like that doesn't help your case -- it actually makes people less inclined to listen to what you have to say, valid though your points might be.

Apple is not robbing you. Nobody is forcing you to buy their products. People buy Apple products because they feel that they satisfy their requirements and provide an acceptable service for the price that Apple charges. If you feel otherwise, it's simple: don't buy Apple products. If you do buy an Apple product, you can't possibly claim that Apple "robbed" you -- that's just absurd.

All this stupidity and so many many reasons not to buy Apple...and just ONE...OSX...to buy. So that is why, as it is possible to do so, I am prepared to buy the OS, but no longer I am happy to buy the hardware.

Unfortunately, at least in the US, that means you won't be using OS X. Yes, the United States' copyright and licensing laws are completely fscking insane (that's a rant for another time), but sadly the law seems to be on Apple's side. If you don't like Apple products, don't buy them -- but be aware that means no OS X for you.
 

Eric S.

macrumors 68040
Feb 1, 2008
3,599
0
Santa Cruz Mountains, California
Well... I finally got onto Psystar's website. It is as slow as anything....
...
I wonder if Apple is doing something to ping-bomb their website, or is psystar's server hosted on dialup..... man is it slow and keeps erroring out.

Maybe today is different, but it's absolutely snappy now.

Don't bother, here is a link to one:

http://gizmodo.com/384526/exclusive-video-psystar-in-the-wild

A quiet machine it is not.

That article is from April 28. The noisy fan problem was fixed shortly after the first few units were shipped, as this article from May 9 states:

http://blogs.zdnet.com/Apple/?p=1703&tag=rbxccnbzd1

"This machine is almost silent, folks. In fact, I opened the case and put the sound meter about an inch from the main exhaust fan and the highest reading I could get was 52 dBA, barely. The shutter of the camera (Nikon D80) made it jump to 57 dBA, as a comparison."
 

curmi

macrumors regular
Jun 5, 2000
150
15
Melbourne, Australia
The Blu-ray issue is all about being on the cutting edge. Yes, not everyone wants a blu-ray drive. But just because you don't want one, doesn't mean no one else should have one either.

The fact is that there is a market for Blu-ray on the Mac - and Psystar offering it as an OPTION shows that they believe there to be a market.

Apple doesn't offer Blu-ray for 2 reasons:

1) There are apparently no slot loading blu-ray drives that are thin enough for Apple's thin laptop style

2) It would take away sales of HD video from iTunes if people could rent movies at Blockbuster at a cheaper price.

The whole "bag of hurt" thing is rubbish. Everyone knows that other manufacturers seem to have solved the issues. So yes, Apple are not being truthful.

Now, Apple have the choice to do what they like with their hardware and software - so if they don't want to support Blu-ray, so be it. They of course run the risk of being seen as no longer "cutting edge", and as someone else put it here "selling 6 month old technology in a pretty box".

Once again, Apple's choice. It might affect sales in the long run for them. It has certainly made some people question Apple - some long time users - because they've suddenly realised that if Apple don't want to be cutting edge as they use to, they have no real choice as no one else sells OS X machines.

Except Psystar (for the moment).

I'm a bit sick of the "I don't want blu-ray" comments from the fan boys. It's about choice, not lowest common denominator features!
 

flopticalcube

macrumors G4
Because Linux Flavor tastes like Butter Pecan.
drooling_homer-712749.gif

mmmhmmm.... butter pecannn......
 

piraeus7

macrumors newbie
Oct 14, 2008
22
13
It isn't an issue. I spent £130 and put a blu-ray burner in my PC. I use it to watch BluRay movies, do large backups, and archive photos/videos incase I have a crash, and a backup crash.

Job's claiming it's a world of hurt is a complete and utter lie. Those words were like a smack in the face to be honest. They were the point at which I decided I just don't like Apple anymore. No bluray, no higher res screens, , extortionate prices, proprietary display ports requiring £90 of adaptors, dumping a $1 part like the remote, glossy-as-hell displays, no firewire etc etc etc. AND pretending there's some 'hurt' reason why they can't do Bluray. Robbing us, giving us sub-grade products, and lying to us. All this stupidity and so many many reasons not to buy Apple...and just ONE...OSX...to buy. So that is why, as it is possible to do so, I am prepared to buy the OS, but no longer I am happy to buy the hardware.

Enough is enough.

I certainly agree with djellison.

I am not a consumer, i am a mac user. A mac user, not an Apple user. Psystar is not a company of criminals. They managed to find a way to build their own machines so that they are compatible with the OS X. The OS X is not stolen. There is nothing wrong with this. They would be liars if the performance of their systems (incompatibility issues, hardware problems, global reliability) was really problematic. So far, i am rather convinced for the opposite.

If someone commits a «crime» this is Apple who «attacks» thru lies (yes lies) and nasty monopoly tactics against our pocket. If Psystar can make a really decent machine with about $700 (€550) and a super tower with less than $1600 (€1300) then it is Apple the bloody liar of the whole story. Why? Because Apple can produce the same machines in almost half price than Psystar. And this is where the scandal lies.

Because Apple has the know–how, the human resources and of course the financial potential to make similar systems to psystar ones even cheaper or alternatively more beautiful machines of equivalent power at the same price.

The answer to «how?» is obvious. Psystar is a small company (wish they will grow soon though) that can sell so far just few thousands computers in a year. So, when they need to buy parts to build their computers (and they do buy really good stuff) they dont buy the same quantities wholesale as Apple does. The more motherboards, the more cpus, gpus, hard disks etc you buy from vendors like Intel, Nvidia, Ati, Seagate, WD, etc the bigger the discount you get is. Simple economics.

If Apple was just reducing a bit their huge appetite for large profits and sell just a wee bit cheaper machines then companies like psystar wouldnt have a good reason to exist. They couldn't be competitive. Apple is just a carnivore multinational beast of profit and lost the character and the personality it had gained thru 80s and 90s. The «made in Asia» (there is nothing wrong with Asia but with companies who moved to Asia; am certainly not a racist) apple desktops and laptops cost just a few hundreds of $$ and are sold 2 times up.

Furthermore, after the recent crappy laptops crop from Apple, i start to hate their hardware. I need flexibility, freedom (no more adaptors and special ports please!) power and of course a reasonable price. Apple's hardware is not attractive at all (am not talking in terms of aesthetics but globally as a solution for my personal needs), Apple is not hearing any more all these creative amateurs and pros who supported it during really tough years and i feel that most of Apple machines right now are just a nice and spectacular bubble without substancial content. A bad joke.

Mac mini? No thanxs, psystar is cheaper and 40% faster! And it can take a good gpu like 8600, a second 3,5" hard drive (not the crappy 80gs of 2,5") and everything can be customised there.

A mac pro?
No thanx. It is extremely expensive with lots of restrictions in some cases. The standard gpu is not something exceptional. The best card they offer is still 8800. The memory modules and any add–ons (hard disks, optical drives, pci cards) bought thru a customisation scheme from Apple store is ridiculously expensive.

I never expected from Apple to sell its products the same price with Dell or Hp. i can understand that they can be 5 or even 15% more expensive than major pc makers cos they are a software company too and they need extra money to develop OS X and applications. But, ok, i am not keen at all in paying 50%-90% more just because Apple has an «army» of blind die-hard supporters who temporarily are feeding Cupertino by giving them their $s or €s or £s or whatever so lightheartedly. And by the way, most if not all these supporters follow the fashion and if a company like Sony or HP invents a new gadget,say, like the ipod they will be the first who will quit Apple's boat. Apple became Apple we do know today because thousands of students, scientists, graphic designers, sound engineers, typographers, engineers, architects and lots of other creative people were working on Apple compatible Software for years and years.

Most serious mac users, amateurs or pros it doesnt matter, were and still are mac users. They do like the OS made by Apple and their software. They are not Apple users anymore. Apple reduces itself to a company of american lifestyle and glamour.

With all these in mind, i welcome machines from companies like psystar as long as they have a decent performance and they don't sell lies to people. Am really angry with mr Jobs; his presentations could impress barbie–doll teens, but not me. Above all a mac is a computer and i am computer user. Not a silly consumer. Hope my next machine will be the Open Pro from psystar, since Apple intentionally ignores voices of people like me. Am really feeling nostalgia for the clones era with brands like Umax, Daystar and Power Computing.

PS: The fact that there is Vista or Linux around can only pose pseudodilemmas of they type: "ok, if you dont like Apple, go windows". It is not like this though. Enough is enough with Apple. They must change their policy dramatically.
 

Voltaic

macrumors regular
Nov 13, 2007
142
0
I certainly agree with djellison.

I am not a consumer, i am a mac user. A mac user, not an Apple user. Psystar is not a company of criminals. They managed to find a way to build their own machines so that they are compatible with the OS X. The OS X is not stolen. There is nothing wrong with this. They would be liars if the performance of their systems (incompatibility issues, hardware problems, global reliability) was really problematic. So far, i am rather convinced for the opposite.

If someone commits a «crime» this is Apple who «attacks» thru lies (yes lies) and nasty monopoly tactics against our pocket. If Psystar can make a really decent machine with about $700 (€550) and a super tower with less than $1600 (€1300) then it is Apple the bloody liar of the whole story. Why? Because Apple can produce the same machines in almost half price than Psystar. And this is where the scandal lies.

Because Apple has the know–how, the human resources and of course the financial potential to make similar systems to psystar ones even cheaper or alternatively more beautiful machines of equivalent power at the same price.

The answer to «how?» is obvious. Psystar is a small company (wish they will grow soon though) that can sell so far just few thousands computers in a year. So, when they need to buy parts to build their computers (and they do buy really good stuff) they dont buy the same quantities wholesale as Apple does. The more motherboards, the more cpus, gpus, hard disks etc you buy from vendors like Intel, Nvidia, Ati, Seagate, WD, etc the bigger the discount you get is. Simple economics.

If Apple was just reducing a bit their huge appetite for large profits and sell just a wee bit cheaper machines then companies like psystar wouldnt have a good reason to exist. They couldn't be competitive. Apple is just a carnivore multinational beast of profit and lost the character and the personality it had gained thru 80s and 90s. The «made in Asia» (there is nothing wrong with Asia but with companies who moved to Asia; am certainly not a racist) apple desktops and laptops cost just a few hundreds of $$ and are sold 2 times up.

Furthermore, after the recent crappy laptops crop from Apple, i start to hate their hardware. I need flexibility, freedom (no more adaptors and special ports please!) power and of course a reasonable price. Apple's hardware is not attractive at all (am not talking in terms of aesthetics but globally as a solution for my personal needs), Apple is not hearing any more all these creative amateurs and pros who supported it during really tough years and i feel that most of Apple machines right now are just a nice and spectacular bubble without substancial content. A bad joke.

Mac mini? No thanxs, psystar is cheaper and 40% faster! And it can take a good gpu like 8600, a second 3,5" hard drive (not the crappy 80gs of 2,5") and everything can be customised there.

A mac pro?
No thanx. It is extremely expensive with lots of restrictions in some cases. The standard gpu is not something exceptional. The best card they offer is still 8800. The memory modules and any add–ons (hard disks, optical drives, pci cards) bought thru a customisation scheme from Apple store is ridiculously expensive.

I never expected from Apple to sell its products the same price with Dell or Hp. i can understand that they can be 5 or even 15% more expensive than major pc makers cos they are a software company too and they need extra money to develop OS X and applications. But, ok, i am not keen at all in paying 50%-90% more just because Apple has an «army» of blind die-hard supporters who temporarily are feeding Cupertino by giving them their $s or €s or £s or whatever so lightheartedly. And by the way, most if not all these supporters follow the fashion and if a company like Sony or HP invents a new gadget,say, like the ipod they will be the first who will quit Apple's boat. Apple became Apple we do know today because thousands of students, scientists, graphic designers, sound engineers, typographers, engineers, architects and lots of other creative people were working on Apple compatible Software for years and years.

Most serious mac users, amateurs or pros it doesnt matter, were and still are mac users. They do like the OS made by Apple and their software. They are not Apple users anymore. Apple reduces itself to a company of american lifestyle and glamour.

With all these in mind, i welcome machines from companies like psystar as long as they have a decent performance and they don't sell lies to people. Am really angry with mr Jobs; his presentations could impress barbie–doll teens, but not me. Above all a mac is a computer and i am computer user. Not a silly consumer. Hope my next machine will be the Open Pro from psystar, since Apple intentionally ignores voices of people like me. Am really feeling nostalgia for the clones era with brands like Umax, Daystar and Power Computing.

PS: The fact that there is Vista or Linux around can only pose pseudodilemmas of they type: "ok, if you dont like Apple, go windows". It is not like this though. Enough is enough with Apple. They must change their policy dramatically.

Amen!

Are you listening Apple? Steve? Fanboys? A lot of us are getting fed up!
 

elgruga

macrumors 6502
Dec 31, 2001
434
1
Canada
Taking offense

..is what seems to motivate a large chunk of the comments here.

Being offended by the actions of a company that has NO CONNECTION whatsoever with you, apart from the choice you made to BUY their product is about the most egotistical nonsense I can think of.

Apple will do what they do - buy their products or dont - your OPINIONS are MEANINGLESS to Apple.

Which is a VERY good thing - not ONE of you could even begin to run a company that can produce the remarkably good things that Apple does.

Psystar? Who gives a damn - buy their products if you want.

I use Apple computers because they are the very BEST option around.
But I dont fantasise that I am magically on Apple 's board of Directors because I bought a few Macs over the years.

If it becomes legal to usurp Apple's EULA, than Apple will simply increase the price of standalone copies of OS X to $500 each.
That should do for PsyStar, I think.

They may lose a few million in upgrade sales, but its a drop in the bucket compared to losing your core business because of the thieves at Psystar.

Anyway, if you want an OSX machine, just build one - its not difficult, and you hardly need Psystar.

All this over the form factor of a computer - what a waste of time.

You guys are really SPECIAL, you know? Like the Princess and the Pea special.
 

MagnusVonMagnum

macrumors 603
Jun 18, 2007
5,196
1,452
My facts are straight, read the EULA. You are not paying the right to use it on a clone, only Original Apple Hardware.
They own the right of the software and how, when and where it is used. Clear enough for you?

The last time I read about a country where someone could tell you how, when and where you could do something it was called COMMUNISM. I'm afraid this whole Eula business isn't far from it. It's NONE OF APPLE'S BUSINESS what I do with something I bought from them if I'm not breaking any ethical laws or giving away their product. That's called privacy and unlike Eulas it's protected by the US Constitution. And THAT is why Apple WILL eventually lose in court over their Eula which tells you how and what you can do with an operating system they are selling at retail. People would NEVER stand for a company being allowed to tell them how and where they can drive their car (only on these roads, but not those), but they put up with it when it comes to computer software?

Don't people realize that you now have MORE rights when it comes to HARDWARE than you do a bunch of ones and zeroes? Do people not think it's a bit ridiculous that the FBI copyright warnings threaten a larger fine and prison sentence for COPYING something like a DVD than for outright STEALING it at a store (a misdemeanor by comparison)??? This whole intellectual property business has been getting completely out of control. There are no longer any common sense laws. Abstract laws like the DMCA are designed BY companies FOR companies and do NOT represent the PEOPLE of this country in whole, but only in part...the 3-5% part that have been sucking this country dry and sending jobs overseas while giving favored trading status to a nuclear armed COMMUNIST country like China. I cannot buy a cigar from a tiny little country like Cuba because the government says so, but they give favored trade status to China who is Communist and has nuclear weapons. Yeah, the USA is definitely a bit screwed up after decades of right-wing control and influence. Things like "fair use" no longer exist and rich Wall Street fat cat corporations have free reign to screw everything up and when they fail, we have to bail THEM out for screwing us over!

So sorry if I don't share the views of the Mac faithful on here about my right to put a legally purchased copy of OS X on any hardware I choose. If Apple has something competitive, I will buy it (e.g. I just bought a brand new 'previous generation" Macbook Pro because I got it for $1444 after rebate from Amazon, which was a reasonable price for its features whereas $2000 with then new glossy only screen and one less firewire port is not, IMO), but if Apple cannot compete without monopolizing the hardware market for their operating system then they are pretty much admitting that they are overcharging for their hardware.
 

matticus008

macrumors 68040
Jan 16, 2005
3,330
1
Bay Area, CA
The last time I read about a country where someone could tell you how, when and where you could do something it was called COMMUNISM. I'm afraid this whole Eula business isn't far from it.
Uh, no, that's exactly backwards. It's communistic to assert rights over someone else's product or property when it is contrary to the owner's wishes. But invoking the "unholy evil of communism" is idiotic. It's the product of a market economy and it has nothing at all to do with communism, socialism, or anything else.
It's NONE OF APPLE'S BUSINESS what I do with something I bought from them if I'm not breaking any ethical laws or giving away their product.
You bought exactly what they sold you. If you're acting like you own more than you do, it is very much their business what you're doing.
 

plokoonpma

macrumors member
Mar 14, 2006
84
0
Panama, Central America
The last time I read about a country where someone could tell you how, when and where you could do something it was called COMMUNISM. I'm afraid this whole Eula business isn't far from it. It's NONE OF APPLE'S BUSINESS what I do with something I bought from them if I'm not breaking any ethical laws or giving away their product. That's called privacy and unlike Eulas it's protected by the US Constitution. And THAT is why Apple WILL eventually lose in court over their Eula which tells you how and what you can do with an operating system they are selling at retail. People would NEVER stand for a company being allowed to tell them how and where they can drive their car (only on these roads, but not those), but they put up with it when it comes to computer software?

Don't people realize that you now have MORE rights when it comes to HARDWARE than you do a bunch of ones and zeroes? Do people not think it's a bit ridiculous that the FBI copyright warnings threaten a larger fine and prison sentence for COPYING something like a DVD than for outright STEALING it at a store (a misdemeanor by comparison)??? This whole intellectual property business has been getting completely out of control. There are no longer any common sense laws. Abstract laws like the DMCA are designed BY companies FOR companies and do NOT represent the PEOPLE of this country in whole, but only in part...the 3-5% part that have been sucking this country dry and sending jobs overseas while giving favored trading status to a nuclear armed COMMUNIST country like China. I cannot buy a cigar from a tiny little country like Cuba because the government says so, but they give favored trade status to China who is Communist and has nuclear weapons. Yeah, the USA is definitely a bit screwed up after decades of right-wing control and influence. Things like "fair use" no longer exist and rich Wall Street fat cat corporations have free reign to screw everything up and when they fail, we have to bail THEM out for screwing us over!

So sorry if I don't share the views of the Mac faithful on here about my right to put a legally purchased copy of OS X on any hardware I choose. If Apple has something competitive, I will buy it (e.g. I just bought a brand new 'previous generation" Macbook Pro because I got it for $1444 after rebate from Amazon, which was a reasonable price for its features whereas $2000 with then new glossy only screen and one less firewire port is not, IMO), but if Apple cannot compete without monopolizing the hardware market for their operating system then they are pretty much admitting that they are overcharging for their hardware.

Since when you can tell a company or someone that has created their own products how to sell it. Apple has chosen at the very beginning that their products both hardware and software to coexist only on their products. Mac OS X was developed for their hardware, PERIOD.
Anyone who things that has the rights with other's property and do whatever they want is wrong. If Psystar ever wanted to make a legit business around OS X they should came first to Apple and try to make a deal with them.
You talk about China and Comunism...... LMAO
Your country that have been involved in so many wars, killed millions in the name of "democracy", that is so freaking nuclear armed and enforce their power thru economics to get unfair treaties of smaller countries... The Cold War ended so many years ago. Please tell me in how many wars China has been involved after they defended their selfs in WWII?

Its so easy to talk about something you now ****. The day you are oppressed
, get your civil rights taken away from you, live in total fear of your government and their police and army. You get family lost, taken away from you, tortured, raped, and tossed on a ditch. Then you can talk about
You are missing the point totally.

About privacy, so let me understand that "right" you say the USA constitution has. You say that you can do whatever you want with something of personal use you bought. I could agree with you to some point if only Psystar owner has bought a single copy for his personal use, but is not the case here. They run a business and they seek profit. 2 totally different things.

I apologize to the rest of the forum for the "political" comments, but not everyone who writes here lives in USA or is a citizen of it. So for we have our own realities, history and points of view. I live in a country that has 18 years of true democracy after decades of dictators and if there is something we stand for.. is RIGHTS. We do not believe that push others, steal or even making profit out of some else work is good, fair or legally right.

It is a surprise for me that someone thinks that Apple doesn't have the right to sell their own products the way they want. It surprised me that you want to enforce a company and pass/smash their rights cause you don't want or like their products the way they deliver them.
 

GripperDon

macrumors newbie
Jun 30, 2008
26
0
Nobars AT&T

I've enjoyed the thoughts put forward by this thread, both pro and against. But for me this comes down to one issues and the only way I can convey it is by comparing it to hacking the iPhone to run on T-Mobile. I really, really like my iPhone, however this chasing the monkey of can I/should I update, and what consequences will it have is getting old.

I'm a huge proponent of Occam's Razor/Law of Parsimony, so every time my iPhone does something stupid it's frustrating to peg who's to blame, Apple or iPhone Dev Team. In the past they've both been directly responsible for serious issues with the phone. It would be really nice if I could just point my finger at one.

All that diatribe aside to say this, from my experiences with modifying my iPhone for T-Mobile I can conclude that I would not use a Psystar computer at any cost. I just don't have the time or energy to play with the higher number of permutations the setup would introduce when dealing with "issues."

As is, I'm seriously considering switching my nearly 10 year old T-Mobile plan to AT&T to avoid all the phone issues that I'm tired of spending time on. There really is something to be said for "it just works."

The saved time from troubleshooting more variables is definitely worth the "Mac Tax" for me. I just don't have the disposable time to chase the updates and read the boards or instructions to do so!

I've fought the Mid Tower battle internally and externally (on this very board if memory serves). I just can't bring myself to do it, so I'll just buy the Apple computer that I need, when I need it and deal with whatever "lack" that that machine might carry when compared to others on the market. I just can't fathom going back to a made for Windows machine at any cost, even if it's possible to run OS X on it.
\\

I had sprint and AT&T and Alltel the only one with bars and service is ALLTel
I will never have a Iphone if it requires ALLtel.
 

BrotherCrack

macrumors member
Jun 5, 2008
32
0
Why are you tempted? Get OSX86 and throw your own rig together.

Why are people criticizing them when they are still paying for a copy of Leopard? They may be violating EULA, but they aren't stealing the OS from Apple.

It's good to have them around because it forces Apple to offer a comparable product rather than withholding certain releases.

Yeah but these people ripped off a whole open source community, I know a lot of people think it's not stealing because they're stealing from the people that created hackintosh, but the people that coded this were doing this for non profit educational purposes. They made huge leaps and bounds on their own, we even got an EFI emulator out of it (which psystar IS using or at least at one point was) so that's the main reason why apple never went after them and in my opinion isn't going to. These slimeballs take the whole hard work of this community take the credit and make money out of it. Say what you want of the EULA bottom line what these people are doing is not right even if some want to fight they're not stealing from apple fine, but they're still stealing from somebody, regardless if the people they're stealing from have a case or not. If you want to support this buy your own rig and do it yourselves dont support these slimeballs.
 

djellison

macrumors 68020
Feb 2, 2007
2,229
4
Pasadena CA
Extortionate prices? Really? No, Apple isn't the cheapest manufacturer out there, but calling a one to two hundred dollar price premium

Who are you kidding? Admit it - you were prepared to get ripped off to use OSX. I was 18 months ago. It's between about 30 and 80% actually. £700 machines, with £1150 price tags. £1000 machines with £1700 price tags - and with none of the options ( blu ray, firewire, matte screens, higher res screens ) that many PC manufacturers offer. Dell, HP, Lenovo etc sure as hell wouldn't sell a £1150 laptop with a display as dreadfull as that in the new MB's. They wouldn't ask for £1700 and not give you Blu-Ray and the option of a higher res screen. And they might use display port - so I can get a $2 adaptor for DL-DVI and I'm away. Tell me - where's the cheap mini-display-port adaptors to prove it isn't a proprietary port. Until I can spend less than the £70 Apple want for me to plug a new laptop into my 30" HP screen - then I consider it proprietary.

In some instances - it's even worse. £500 I can have a quad core machine with 4 gig of Ram. Another £600 and I've got a pair of good 24 inch monitors. Apple want £2947 for that. More than double. And the home-build would be faster.

I was prepared to pay a bit more - maybe 25% over the odds - for the MB I bought 18 months ago, and the MBP I got this Spring. That's an acceptable OSX tax. The prices have increased since then in the UK, and the specifications remain the same, or are infact worse. I struggled to recommend Mac's to other people - now I can't even recommend them to myself.

Doug
 
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