"Psystar slaps Apple around, releases Mac clones with Blu-ray / GeForce 9800GT"

[bobrik]

Not really. Apple does not make a budget PC and that is why it appears that competitors' prices are better for every class of computer. . When you spec a competitors' machine to match a Mac's spec, the price difference isn't as much as one would think.

Do you call a Lenovo Thinkpad T61 a budget PC? Do you really think for the $1335 config I tried to make, I would get a machine that is worse than my current Macbook Pro? At least I could be running 8GB of RAM without trouble with Lenovo and have better screen resolution.

And Apple "confessed" themselves when they spoke about their ~30% margins - they have much higher margins than other companies.

While I do agree that one should not compare Apple PCs with budget PCs, even when comparing with high quality PCs, Apple is more expensive.

That said, Apple has 100% right to charge what they want for their machines, and I don't agree with Apple overcharging their machines being used as an argument for "allowing" Psystar to do what they do. And on the other hand, as long as Psystar does not use anything else than standard component, they can't be prosecuted for anything. I however remember (?) that they are installing a special chip that makes OS X believe to be running on a genuine Apple hardware; now that would be a problem.

 

[chrmjenkins]

And few will buy a Psystar to run Mac OS X. My point was, hacked Dell's are just as much of a threat as hackintoshes from Psystar.

Ok, but when is the last time you saw Dell advertising being able to run OSX or getting news attention for being able to sell computers that run OSX?

People that know that are only the ones that seek it out. Anyone can run across a Psystar ad.

 

[flashEX]

It's funny to see how upset people get over these type of issues...

Lots of Mac users have been crying out fro blur ray support for ages. Apple offers HD this, HD that but offer it's users no way of burning their HD movies.

Other computer makers seem able to make affordable machines with BluRay drives so I don't quite buy the argument that the licensing is too expensive. PC users have been enjoying Bluray for a long time.

Psystar are now offering bluray, great, I hope they show Apple up. I won't be buying one of their machines but if it helps Apple get their asses in gear then great.

Don't see why anyone would vote this negative.

Agreed. Especially with reverse-engineering effort in the open-source community, I think BluRay will be full and functionally working before Apple releases it for Quicktime or their own BluRay movie player. The ability of doing that is there with a maturing project in DumpHD. It will be a matter of time before someone package that integrates with an installer and integration with either VLC or MPlayer and have it fully wide open. And hey.... even if apple is offering HD, it's DRM piece of crap. It's time to look at DRM-free HD content!

 

[belvdr]

You can't compare the two because they are too different. You must spec a competitors' machine to match a Mac. Compare the the Dell XPS M1330scfasdv-00:d3 (13") to the new MB. You have to customize it to match the MB's specs as close as is possible.

You have no idea what my system has in it. All you know are the model numbers, yet you say they are too different. I could understand if my system config was way off comparably, but it's not. I have a DVD burner, 250GB drive, and wireless too. I could also run OS X on it with no issue, so the hardware cannot be far off, if at all.

The only thing my laptop is missing versus the XPS you mention is a webcam. So a webcam is worth $900 extra?

 

[jincongz]

The Problem.

The problem is, to sell it as is, mac would have to sell the normal one for 400 or something. Apple doesn't want to put a price tag on OS X.

 

[flashEX]

The problem is, to sell it as is, mac would have to sell the normal one for 400 or something. Apple doesn't want to put a price tag on OS X.

what are you talking about? Apple tags Leopard as $129.00

 

[jpsalvesen]

So, are these criminals still free-riding on Apple's R&D and selling machines to the "masses"? I hope they close up shop in no time.

Where's that Blu-Ray-enabled consumer-oriented Mac?!

In fact, Psystar seems to do R&D that Apples doesn't bother to do by offering Blu-Ray-enabled hardware for a (hacked) OSX.

How does cognitive dissonance feel?

 

[billandy]

no through test or probably no test at all have been done to those machines with the particular configuration. os x is good to a very large extent is due to its thorough testing on machines that eliminates the compatibility issues with different pieces of hardware putting all together and possibly with the driver itself. those offerings sound quite attractive in terms of value for money, but that's like getting a second hand 3-year old bmw m3 that's got its vin scratched off for £6,000, would you buy one of these any more?

just forget it, what users ultimately want is the best user experience and stability of system itself, not the sort of things that you can't even run patches in software update.

i bet £100 that whoever buys one of these will regret in 60 days of time and have no way to return or probably resell.

 

[jincongz]

You have no idea what my system has in it. All you know are the model numbers, yet you say they are too different. I could understand if my system config was way off comparably, but it's not. I have a DVD burner, 250GB drive, and wireless too. I could also run OS X on it with no issue, so the hardware cannot be far off, if at all.

The only thing my laptop is missing versus the XPS you mention is a webcam. So a webcam is worth $900 extra?

If you are to compare, post your full stats... You can't compare a E2180 to a E7400. Do you have wireless N? Firewire (i'm staring at my own macbook here...)? Magsafe? Optical Audio Output? What's the Ram stats? 4200rpm?

 

[jincongz]

what are you talking about? Apple tags Leopard as $129.00

But that's as an upgrade.
Don't forget that Windows also has a cheaper (upgrade) version of every version of their vista.

 

[corinhorn]

You have no idea what my system has in it. All you know are the model numbers, yet you say they are too different. I could understand if my system config was way off comparably, but it's not. I have a DVD burner, 250GB drive, and wireless too. I could also run OS X on it with no issue, so the hardware cannot be far off, if at all.

The only thing my laptop is missing versus the XPS you mention is a webcam. So a webcam is worth $900 extra?

Go to Dell's site and customize a XPS M1330 to match a MB as close as you can. You can't simply match the CPU speed and the RAM amount. There is bus speed to consider, cache, every spec that is possible to be customized to match the MB.

I understand that several people don't want or need the beefy Mac specs, and that is valid. I am simply saying that in order to compare prices, the computers need to be spec'ed as close together as is possible.

 

[fierywater]

If you are to compare, post your full stats... You can't compare a E2180 to a E7400. Do you have wireless N? Firewire (i'm staring at my own macbook here...)? Magsafe? Optical Audio Output? What's the Ram stats? 4200rpm?

Not to mention build quality - the Inspiron 1525's build quality is not up to the MacBook's in any way, shape, or form. The XPS M1330 is a much more solid machine.

 

[flashEX]

But that's as an upgrade.
Don't forget that Windows also has a cheaper (upgrade) version of every version of their vista.

Seriously. Isn't 99% of the PC upgrade of Windows too? Because you either own a copy from your old computer or it came with your current computer. (Unless you pirated of course.) It's such a moot point to argue that. Every piece of software Apple put out has a price. Just that they were written so that they don't have support on anything other than authorized Mac hardware. You can buy iLife and if technically inclined enough you can hack it up and run it on a PC but you won't get support for it. Just like how some people use Wine to run Microsoft Office on Linux and OSX. You can run it but no support.

 

[ucfgrad93]

How is this company still making this??

That is what I'd like to know as well.

 

[belvdr]

If you are to compare, post your full stats... You can't compare a E2180 to a E7400. Do you have wireless N? Firewire (i'm staring at my own macbook here...)? Magsafe? Optical Audio Output? What's the Ram stats? 4200rpm?

Sure:

Intel Core2Duo T5750
2GB RAM
**Wireless G
**Line out analog (who cares really, as I don't compute right next to a home theater)
5400rpm 250GB drive
Firewire
Multimedia card reader
15" widescreen
S-Video out
HDMI out
VGA out

Obviously no MagSafe, but don't see that as a plus or minus. Never had an issue with power on anything I've had.

So, if you want to include MagSafe, there 3 missing options for $900 more. Then again, I gained a Multimedia card reader and 3 video output options too. Also, if I wanted to upgrade to Wireless-N, I can get a Mini-PCI one for $80. I actually chose not to get 802.11n until it gets out of draft.

 

[Eric S.]

just forget it, what users ultimately want is the best user experience and stability of system itself, not the sort of things that you can't even run patches in software update.

You can run Software Update on Psystar machines. They've had that capability for a long time. Psystar modified Software Update to get the updates from their server, and they test them all first to make sure their are no problems.

i bet £100 that whoever buys one of these will regret in 60 days of time and have no way to return or probably resell.

Based on what? Your desire to have Psystar fail? Anyone who buys a system from them should know what they're getting into (just like you should research any major product you buy), and that it involves some risk. But Psystar is selling a product that Apple refuses to make, and if you're in the market for that product then the risk may well be acceptable.

But that's as an upgrade.

Calling Leopard an upgrade is just semantics. I can buy a used Mac with a blank HD, get a Leopard install CD and install the entire OS. I'm not upgrading anything.

Don't forget that Windows also has a cheaper (upgrade) version of every version of their vista.

I bet you can't install it on a blank HD though.

 

[ryanplusplus]

Sure:

Intel Core2Duo T5750
2GB RAM
**Wireless G
**Line out analog (who cares really, as I don't compute right next to a home theater)
5400rpm 250GB drive
Firewire
Multimedia card reader
15" widescreen
S-Video out
HDMI out
VGA out

Obviously no MagSafe, but don't see that as a plus or minus. Never had an issue with power on anything I've had.

So, if you want to include MagSafe, there 3 missing options for $900 more. Then again, I gained a Multimedia card reader and 3 video output options too. Also, if I wanted to upgrade to Wireless-N, I can get a Mini-PCI one for $80. I actually chose not to get 802.11n until it gets out of draft.

Price, model, GPU, LED-backlit screen, memory type/speed?

It sure sounds like you're comparing a MB class machine (that probably has nowhere near the build quality of a MB) to a MBP.

 

[corinhorn]

Sure:

Intel Core2Duo T5750
2GB RAM
**Wireless G
**Line out analog (who cares really, as I don't compute right next to a home theater)
5400rpm 250GB drive
Firewire
Multimedia card reader
15" widescreen
S-Video out
HDMI out
VGA out

Obviously no MagSafe, but don't see that as a plus or minus. Never had an issue with power on anything I've had.

So, if you want to include MagSafe, there 3 missing options for $900 more. Then again, I gained a Multimedia card reader and 3 video output options too. Also, if I wanted to upgrade to Wireless-N, I can get a Mini-PCI one for $80. I actually chose not to get 802.11n until it gets out of draft.

The bus speed on that thing is less than that of the MB. Same story for the cache. What about the screen resolution? What battery came with that price tag?

The points of your personal preference about whether a component is needed or not, although valid, is not relevant to the argument.

 

[belvdr]

Go to Dell's site and customize a XPS M1330 to match a MB as close as you can. You can't simply match the CPU speed and the RAM amount. There is bus speed to consider, cache, every spec that is possible to be customized to match the MB.

I understand that several people don't want or need the beefy Mac specs, and that is valid. I am simply saying that in order to compare prices, the computers need to be spec'ed as close together as is possible.

The RAM speed is very different, but the system is still snappy. However, that's the only spec I'm seeing that is terribly different. That said, the prices are still as high as they were before when they were using PPC chips. So, they've had a decrease in R&D, since they don't have to go with a proprietary chip and chipset, and are using standard parts.

In other words, their cost went down, and they didn't pass it on to customers. So the consumer is paying more than they should have to.

 

[chrmjenkins]

Price, model, GPU, LED-backlit screen, memory type/speed?

It sure sounds like you're comparing a MB class machine (that probably has nowhere near the build quality of a MB) to a MBP.

XPS M1330

Intel® Core™ 2 Duo T8100 (2.1GHz/800Mhz FSB/3MB cache)
Genuine Windows Vista® Home Premium Edition SP1, 64-bit
Tuxedo Black
1Yr Ltd Hardware Warranty, InHome Service after Remote Diagnosis
Slim and Light LED Display with VGA Webcam
3GB Shared Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 667MHz
Size: 250GB SATA Hard Drive (5400RPM)
CD/DVD burner (DVD+/-RW Drive)
128MB NVIDIA® GeForce™ 8400M GS
Dell Wireless 1505 Wireless-N Mini-card
Built-in Bluetooth capability (2.0 EDR)
56Whr Lithium Ion Battery (6 cell)
High Definition Audio 2.0
Biometric Fingerprint Reader

1374.

Given the differences, pretty close.

 

[ryanplusplus]

The RAM speed is very different, but the system is still snappy. However, that's the only spec I'm seeing that is terribly different. That said, the prices are still as high as they were before when they were using PPC chips. So, they've had a decrease in R&D, since they don't have to go with a proprietary chip and chipset, and are using standard parts.

In other words, their cost went down, and they didn't pass it on to customers. So the consumer is paying more than they should have to.

Just give us the make and model of this machine and the rest of the necessary information and let us see if you're making a fair comparison.

 

[ryanplusplus]

XPS M1330

Intel® Core™ 2 Duo T8100 (2.1GHz/800Mhz FSB/3MB cache)
Genuine Windows Vista® Home Premium Edition SP1, 64-bit
Tuxedo Black
1Yr Ltd Hardware Warranty, InHome Service after Remote Diagnosis
Slim and Light LED Display with VGA Webcam
3GB Shared Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 667MHz
Size: 250GB SATA Hard Drive (5400RPM)
CD/DVD burner (DVD+/-RW Drive)
128MB NVIDIA® GeForce™ 8400M GS
Dell Wireless 1505 Wireless-N Mini-card
Built-in Bluetooth capability (2.0 EDR)
56Whr Lithium Ion Battery (6 cell)
High Definition Audio 2.0
Biometric Fingerprint Reader

1374.

Given the differences, pretty close.

Seems pretty similar to the $1299 MB, no?

 

[belvdr]

The bus speed on that thing is less than that of the MB. Same story for the cache. What about teh screen resolution? What battery came with that price tag?

The points of your personal preference about whether a component is needed or not, although valid, is not relevant to the argument.

You're going to tout MagSafe as a huge feature then? It's a power connector, nothing more. I had a 17" PB G4 1.33 without MagSafe, and it worked flawlessly. Now where does that leave us....

1280x800 is the screen resolution (and the goofy glossy display, but that's another matter entirely). Think it is a 9-cell battery... I get about 4 hours out of it during normal use.

Still we're missing around $900 difference here, and I just cannot see paying $900 more for the MB. But that's just me...

 

[belvdr]

Just give us the make and model of this machine and the rest of the necessary information and let us see if you're making a fair comparison.

I did, if you care to read the thread.

 

[Shiner]

Agreed, the spec difference is large

Sure:

Intel Core2Duo T5750
2GB RAM
**Wireless G
**Line out analog (who cares really, as I don't compute right next to a home theater)
5400rpm 250GB drive
Firewire
Multimedia card reader
15" widescreen
S-Video out
HDMI out
VGA out

Obviously no MagSafe, but don't see that as a plus or minus. Never had an issue with power on anything I've had.

So, if you want to include MagSafe, there 3 missing options for $900 more. Then again, I gained a Multimedia card reader and 3 video output options too. Also, if I wanted to upgrade to Wireless-N, I can get a Mini-PCI one for $80. I actually chose not to get 802.11n until it gets out of draft.

People I have a Macpro and a monster desktop PC that I built. One computer I use for everyday task like work and email and internet surfing and the other is a bleeding edge, take and test everything you can throw at machine. I love my macpro and leopard. It always works and I never worry about it. I love my PC and it destroys my MAC at all high-end work but is breaking down all the time (I love to play with electronics). My point is you are not running the bleeding edge technology on any MAC computer, especially their laptops. You are paying for the apple experience and beauty. Anyone that argues the price difference between an apple laptop and a PC laptop is not that different has no clue about computer parts. Now if you argue that the extra money spent is worth it then that is a different story altogether.