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"Psystar slaps Apple around, releases Mac clones with Blu-ray / GeForce 9800GT"
- Thread starter tuosfan
- Start date
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And when your iCEO uses terms like "bag of hurt," you don't have to guess who is raining on everyone's parade...
The original post was that the bread and butter is the hardware, not the software. I pointed to the success of Microsoft as a software only company that software in itself is a profitable venture.
To me this announcement is showing that a company is willing to offer up what Apple won't.
A mid-range tower is power and great graphics and data storage with Blu-Ray.
Apple by now is dragging its feet at offering up Blu-Ray and HDCP compliant video cards. maybe now with Displayport, it will come up with a dynamic solution which will trump what Psystar is offering.
But... many of us want our macs to read Blu-Ray movies/tv and... have option to upgrade and burn BD media onto disc.
So... Honestly, I don't love the idea of a hack/Clone, but it could hopefully get Apple to start offering up a more diverse product line.
I just hope apple is listening. gets kinda frustrated when they keep offering up things like Glossy/reflective monitors and no Blu-Ray
Where is the cool old Apple? please come back with the cutting edge on technology. now its old tech done well, but not much truly all in graphics and video in this area.
A mid-range tower is power and great graphics and data storage with Blu-Ray.
Apple by now is dragging its feet at offering up Blu-Ray and HDCP compliant video cards. maybe now with Displayport, it will come up with a dynamic solution which will trump what Psystar is offering.
But... many of us want our macs to read Blu-Ray movies/tv and... have option to upgrade and burn BD media onto disc.
So... Honestly, I don't love the idea of a hack/Clone, but it could hopefully get Apple to start offering up a more diverse product line.
I just hope apple is listening. gets kinda frustrated when they keep offering up things like Glossy/reflective monitors and no Blu-Ray
Where is the cool old Apple? please come back with the cutting edge on technology. now its old tech done well, but not much truly all in graphics and video in this area.
It's one thing to say that they could still be making money, but you can't argue that their business model, whether you like it or not, is working for them. Do they really have a compelling reason to switch it up and try to target every possible consumer?
They Do....
Dell, Asus, HP, Lonovo,..... thousands of storefront computer stores.
All with various competitive advantages, some a big and have economy of scale, some are small and don't make much profit, some have custom OS (eeePC) or interesting form factors.
Apple or any of these guys can choose which ones to take advantage of but that doesn't make them any less of a competitor.
Pystar choose to well .... I'm not exactly sure what it is they bring to the table. Well legally bring to the table, they seem to be hijacking copyright protected work left, right and center and slapping together parts. Them seem to be in storefront model of not planning to be here in 3 years.
I still don't get the obsession with Blu-ray on the Mac. I mean you can get HighDef content without the physical media. As far as storage goes, Best Buy lists a 2x25GB pack of BD-R as ~$20, which is $0.40/GB. I could get a 320GB portable HD for $90, which is $0.28/GB or I could get a 640GB external HD for $99, which is $0.15/GB. Seems you could get equal ability with more flexibility for less money without Blu-ray. Maybe I just don't get it.
yeah, quite surprisingly I have found them on the MR forums site, too. hahaha.
they do, just as the poster above me has stated. Dell, HP, lenovo.
You know all of that DRM that people complained was built into the core of Vista? That needs to be in OS X if you want to watch Blu-Ray movies.
So, Apple has a few options:
1) Submit to Sony and the Blu-Ray board and add the same protection that Vista has that everyone bitched about. Steve Jobs does not want to do this.
2) Add Blu-Ray drives that only have read/write abilities but no playback abilities. Steve Jobs would not want to half support Blu-Ray, especially when BD-R is not a great backup medium (high cost/GB).
3) Stick it to Sony until they can add Blu-Ray support without having to jump through a bunch of hoops and deal with a couple of fanboys bitching. Steve Jobs apparently doesn't mind doing this.
Plus, Apple is trying to push digital distribution and the iTMS. There is no urgency for them to support another optical disk. I'm sure Steve Jobs would rather drop the optical drive on all notebooks. If he could, that is.
It would be a major change from the Jobs philosophy of sale, which is basically about avoiding paralysis brought on by excessive choice. Based on the form factor you are looking for, they try to have very clear lines between things.
Consumer desktop: iMac
Consumer notebook: Macbook
Professional workstation: Mac Pro
Professional notebook: MacBook Pro
Executive notebook: MacBook Air
Within each line there are several models which, once you decide on your needs, are priced to be tempting upsells.
The most expensive model in each consumer line is a few hundred dollars cheaper than the professional line. The Air is really the odd-one-out right now, because many professionals will scoff at its reduced performance, while consumers may balk at its price. It's great for travel though.
Look at the iPods? Models are generally $50-$100 apart, except for the newer Touch which is being priced between the nano and the 'portable jukebox' classic. Taking the touch out of the equation (as I don't think Apple really knows whether it will wind up replacing the classic yet), each player has very distinct advantages and disadvantages, and you start to notice things like the nano getting smaller with every revision to offset some of the shuffle's advantage with size.
It's to funny that people question Apples computer products.
Apple is currently the only computer mfg who is increasing their market share quarter after quarter.
Once you make your computer a commodity, like Dell has, it's tough to get consumers to pay more for it. So you're stuck with one option, to make a cheaper machine and sell more.
Apple is better off selling one machine at 1500 than selling three machines at 1500, because they will actually make money on the one machine.
As far as BluRay goes, I've said it before and I'll say it again, it is dead on the vine! Sony can't even give them away in the PS3.
Apple is currently the only computer mfg who is increasing their market share quarter after quarter.
Once you make your computer a commodity, like Dell has, it's tough to get consumers to pay more for it. So you're stuck with one option, to make a cheaper machine and sell more.
Apple is better off selling one machine at 1500 than selling three machines at 1500, because they will actually make money on the one machine.
As far as BluRay goes, I've said it before and I'll say it again, it is dead on the vine! Sony can't even give them away in the PS3.
there is no such thing as 'apple hardware'. except for the case, you know where they put the apple logo. its about the only hardware that apple actually designs. now if you look inside it, you won't find anything that is made by apple (mobo, memory, hard disk, processor, graphics card. what else?). it will run the same way as it would run on the mac you buy from apple. inside is the same as my custom built windows/linux machine.
Why would Apple do ADR?
I'm no lawyer, but I'm surprised Apple agreed to ADR instead of going straight to court. It seems strange, unless this dispute negotiation is a perfunctory step to the usual legal bludgeoning that Apple inflicts on companies that try to use Apple's intellectual property.
Why is it a strange choice? Because ADR is for negotiating. I don't see what Apple could possibly be willing to negotiate here. Will they pay Psystar money to disappear? Seems unlikely, because it sets an encouraging precedent for other would-be cloners. Will they allow Psystar to exist and sell OSX-compatible computers. What exactly will Apple concede in these negotiations?
I'm no lawyer, but I'm surprised Apple agreed to ADR instead of going straight to court. It seems strange, unless this dispute negotiation is a perfunctory step to the usual legal bludgeoning that Apple inflicts on companies that try to use Apple's intellectual property.
Why is it a strange choice? Because ADR is for negotiating. I don't see what Apple could possibly be willing to negotiate here. Will they pay Psystar money to disappear? Seems unlikely, because it sets an encouraging precedent for other would-be cloners. Will they allow Psystar to exist and sell OSX-compatible computers. What exactly will Apple concede in these negotiations?
I don't know whether there's a compelling reason or not. But you can't argue that their business model can't be possibly be improved on. Apple is a company run by humans. And that means they are not infallible. And it seems to me that they have recognized that in the past and "switched it up". It also seems to me that, since we are entering a very different economic climate, they would be taking a hard look at their business model.
Here's an example. I'm own an event video production company. I don't do weddings (I can't stand dealing with the witches, err, I mean brides), but I have a number of friends in the business that do. More and more couples are wanting their videos on HD bluray disks. They want something they can pop into a DVD player. To do that as a video production company you have to have the means to burn it to disk. That's one of the reasons that there are very few video production companies that are strictly Mac anymore. We've been forced to go outside Apple to get the tools we need. And, at the end of the day, for a business a computer is a tool.
EXCESSIVE CHOICE, are you KIDDING???????
Consumer desktop: iMac - if you can abide their choice of screen, and only want ONE screen, or mismatched screens.
Consumer notebook: Macbook - if you can deal without firewire, or target disk mode, and like it just as Apple intends.
Professional workstation: Mac Pro - if you have $$$$$$$$$$ to spare, and have a use for all that horsepower, that can justify the heat and space occupied.
Professional notebook: MacBook Pro - if you have $$$$$$$ to spare, and like it just as Apple intends
Executive notebook: MacBook Air - if you don't need to connect it to more than one USB device at a time, don't need firewire, or target disk mode, or almost anything else, and have $$$$$$$$ to spare.
There is a giant HOLE in this lineup, regardless of the Laptop specs. The hole just beside the iMac, and firmly under the Mac pro.
You can't upsell an iMac to someone who wants a different monitor, or TWO MONITORS, that the iMac doesn't jive with. iMac works well on a desk at home, but doesn't cut it on my work-bench at work.
I really do use 2 screens worth of real-estate, and I want the screens to match, but I don't need 8 cores to run web forms, office, e-mail, and stuff like that. I want monitors at the same height, same border, same color rendition, and a whole lot less non-screen frontal area than an iMac.
I also can't put an iMac in my home theater rack, to drive an HD monitor. I don't need or want the iMac's screen in that situation.
The mac mini is close, but has it's own drawbacks and deficiencies, and appears to be the red-headed step child of Apple's lineup anyway. I like it, but it falls down just short of the finish line in terms of being truly versatile. If it supported two screens at least, I would seriously consider it for my workbench workstation. If it were just a bit better on video performance and a more current CPU, I would probably already have one in my home theater rack. It is so close... If they would get on the stick and offer blue-ray playback, and TV tuner card support in FrontRow, I would put my money down faster. Not everyone has the raw bandwidth to download HD content from the internet, rather than playing a rented BluRay disc.
You can't down-sell a behemoth MacPro to a person on a budget of HALF the MacPro's going rate, who doesn't have the desk space for that monster, or wants to put the machine in a home theater rack. MacPro is a very nice high end workstation. We have some at my workplace, and they are very nice. But I don't need that HEAT, nor do I need that grey aluminum elephant on or under my work bench. I certainly don't have room for it in my home theater, either.
Apple has left a GIANT hole in the middle of their lineup. And the customer cannot be blamed for wanting that missing product. If Psystar is going to offer it, even in a shady way, some people are going to go for it, in the absence of a real product from Apple.
And it isn't a "junk/cheapo" option. We aren't talking about 300$ wal mart center-aisle specials here. We are talking 500-1500 mini-tower, built-to-Apple-standards, affordable headless computers here. That isn't junk, and the customers who want that aren't crazy for thinking that Apple's existing products don't meet the need.
Apple is getting more arrogant again, and while they should be confident, their attitude is putting people off. I don't want to be put off, but it is getting harder and harder. Apple will only be able to push this so far until they hit a wall. This "my way or the highway" stuff gets old, and people get tired of hearing it. IF it is going to be Apple's way or the highway, the entrance ramps to the Apple way had better be nice, clear, and easy to merge onto.
But some of us feel that we are on a side street that has had a closed entrance ramp for a very long time.
If Apple is going to continue to thumb it's nose at those of us with specific purposes for a headless machine with some stats, and an appropriate pice, but not overkill on either one... Then Psystar, OSX86, and EFI-X, and more alternatives are going to keep popping up. The market will find a way, and people will feed that market, even if it is slightly shady to do so. It is just as shady for participants like Apple to arrogantly deny customers, and essentially create their own problem.
Consumer desktop: iMac - if you can abide their choice of screen, and only want ONE screen, or mismatched screens.
Consumer notebook: Macbook - if you can deal without firewire, or target disk mode, and like it just as Apple intends.
Professional workstation: Mac Pro - if you have $$$$$$$$$$ to spare, and have a use for all that horsepower, that can justify the heat and space occupied.
Professional notebook: MacBook Pro - if you have $$$$$$$ to spare, and like it just as Apple intends
Executive notebook: MacBook Air - if you don't need to connect it to more than one USB device at a time, don't need firewire, or target disk mode, or almost anything else, and have $$$$$$$$ to spare.
There is a giant HOLE in this lineup, regardless of the Laptop specs. The hole just beside the iMac, and firmly under the Mac pro.
You can't upsell an iMac to someone who wants a different monitor, or TWO MONITORS, that the iMac doesn't jive with. iMac works well on a desk at home, but doesn't cut it on my work-bench at work.
I really do use 2 screens worth of real-estate, and I want the screens to match, but I don't need 8 cores to run web forms, office, e-mail, and stuff like that. I want monitors at the same height, same border, same color rendition, and a whole lot less non-screen frontal area than an iMac.
I also can't put an iMac in my home theater rack, to drive an HD monitor. I don't need or want the iMac's screen in that situation.
The mac mini is close, but has it's own drawbacks and deficiencies, and appears to be the red-headed step child of Apple's lineup anyway. I like it, but it falls down just short of the finish line in terms of being truly versatile. If it supported two screens at least, I would seriously consider it for my workbench workstation. If it were just a bit better on video performance and a more current CPU, I would probably already have one in my home theater rack. It is so close... If they would get on the stick and offer blue-ray playback, and TV tuner card support in FrontRow, I would put my money down faster. Not everyone has the raw bandwidth to download HD content from the internet, rather than playing a rented BluRay disc.
You can't down-sell a behemoth MacPro to a person on a budget of HALF the MacPro's going rate, who doesn't have the desk space for that monster, or wants to put the machine in a home theater rack. MacPro is a very nice high end workstation. We have some at my workplace, and they are very nice. But I don't need that HEAT, nor do I need that grey aluminum elephant on or under my work bench. I certainly don't have room for it in my home theater, either.
Apple has left a GIANT hole in the middle of their lineup. And the customer cannot be blamed for wanting that missing product. If Psystar is going to offer it, even in a shady way, some people are going to go for it, in the absence of a real product from Apple.
And it isn't a "junk/cheapo" option. We aren't talking about 300$ wal mart center-aisle specials here. We are talking 500-1500 mini-tower, built-to-Apple-standards, affordable headless computers here. That isn't junk, and the customers who want that aren't crazy for thinking that Apple's existing products don't meet the need.
Apple is getting more arrogant again, and while they should be confident, their attitude is putting people off. I don't want to be put off, but it is getting harder and harder. Apple will only be able to push this so far until they hit a wall. This "my way or the highway" stuff gets old, and people get tired of hearing it. IF it is going to be Apple's way or the highway, the entrance ramps to the Apple way had better be nice, clear, and easy to merge onto.
But some of us feel that we are on a side street that has had a closed entrance ramp for a very long time.
If Apple is going to continue to thumb it's nose at those of us with specific purposes for a headless machine with some stats, and an appropriate pice, but not overkill on either one... Then Psystar, OSX86, and EFI-X, and more alternatives are going to keep popping up. The market will find a way, and people will feed that market, even if it is slightly shady to do so. It is just as shady for participants like Apple to arrogantly deny customers, and essentially create their own problem.
Why not? In recent years he hasn't hesitated to force his will upon the masses.
He can and, after what he did with firewire on the MB, I expect that he very soon will. They will then be offering a new external USB (because we all know now that firewire isn't what consumers want, at least according to Mr. Jobs) Superdrive for those that want one. That way he'll be able to make more money selling peripherals AND he'll be able to make his new 1mm thick MB, because we all know now that thin is what makes a superior notebook computer. To heck with functionality.
So today, for the first time in many, many years, I specced out a desktop PC, just to see what a Hackintosh might cost. 4GB RAM, 2.4Ghz quad-core, 9800GT, 250GB drive, firewire 800/400, wireless, DVD-R, OS X, all in a standard tower case for $750.
Would it explode? Maybe (likely so in my case... I haven't built many PCs). But, such a price point has to be drawing away some people. If the OSX86 people get Snow Leopard's GPU accelleration to work on hacked machines, I imagine that defections would increase quite a bit.
Would it explode? Maybe (likely so in my case... I haven't built many PCs). But, such a price point has to be drawing away some people. If the OSX86 people get Snow Leopard's GPU accelleration to work on hacked machines, I imagine that defections would increase quite a bit.
Psystar clones with good look and Stevie's Reaction
These Psystar's clones look like a option to combat high prices and arbitrary behavior from Apple. This machines have good technical specifications and the best part is that you can run Mac OS X on them. (The best of both worlds)
You can see more related information, such as the Steve Jobs' reaction and comparative performance between Open Computer vs. Macs, just follow the link:
http://applediario.com/2008/10/28/p...anza-clones-mac-con-blu-ray-y-geforce-9800gt/
These Psystar's clones look like a option to combat high prices and arbitrary behavior from Apple. This machines have good technical specifications and the best part is that you can run Mac OS X on them. (The best of both worlds)
You can see more related information, such as the Steve Jobs' reaction and comparative performance between Open Computer vs. Macs, just follow the link:
http://applediario.com/2008/10/28/p...anza-clones-mac-con-blu-ray-y-geforce-9800gt/
Well said and explained. I am glad to see many others feel as I do and are voicing it.
Apple has seemed to not learn the lessons of why people bought the clones in the 90s. Very restrictive hardware, very poor specifications for the price, slow reactions to changes in the market, and this idea that customers aren't smart enough to know what computer they want so Apple should just choose for them. If Apple were taking care of their customers, things like osx86, EFIX, and Psystar would not exist.
That list is rapidly expanding to include prosumers, video professionals, music professionals, etc. You know, the people who used to be Apple's core base before cupertino pulled the rug out from under them. But hey, buying a Mac isn't about actually doing anything with a computer, its about furthering a religion right?
If only Adobe would offer CS4 on Linux I'd be on Linux full time. That is made me look at Macs I needed an OS that would run Adobe software and my Linux and Solaris systems could not do that and I certainly did not need Windows. So Mac was the only option.
Years ago Photoshop ran on Silicon Graphics Irix based systems. Our local SG sales guy said he'd bring an Irix work station into an Apple Mac based design shop and at first all the designers said "we like our Macs" until they tried Photoshop on an SGI machine. Once they tried they were hooked and ready to drop Macs. Ixix was just "cool" compared to the clunky old system 9 (Ten year old Irix was on a level with today's Leopard) and the SGI machines were an order of magnitude or two faster than Mac. But the $50K price tag for an entry level machine kept most from buying. The bottom line is that Adobe once did it, they has PS up and running on Unix workstations. They could try again if there was a market. Apple is leaving a huge hole. No one really wants the iMac or the Mac Pro, what they want is a $1,500 quad core machine with upgradable parts.
Yeah and I hope Apple loses it all in the end. Whose OPINION is better, eh? Apple is no better as a company (even if their OS is better) than Microsoft. I want the OS. I don't want Apple's overpriced hardware. I just bought a brand new MBP, but only because I got it for almost $600 off its price (Amazon clearance sale + $150 rebate) and the new MBPs SUCK (they have this horrible reflective glass glossy screen only and lost a firewire port and gained almost nothing in speed).
Competition for hardware for OS X is a GOOD thing for the CONSUMER. Apple's making record breaking profits BECAUSE they don't have to compete for hardware sales for those of us that WANT OS X. Hardware and Software are two different enterprises and the Psystar thing PROVES it. Apple should have to compete on BOTH levels, not be able to use one to leverage the other. They'll let you buy Windows to put on their Macs, but they won't let you buy OS X to put on your Dell? That's not playing FAIR and fair trade is what it should be about, not technical definitions of monopolies and the like. I wish they WOULD go to court because if Apple loses (and they should if the judge has any technical knowledge) it means Apple would be forced to be competitive with hardware and it would mean I could legally get the Mac hardware I WANT instead of the hardware Apple wants to sell me. Just look at the new Macbook. No firewire. No matte screen option for ANY new Macs these days. Apple's answer to those that complain? They delete their threads and pretend they don't exist. The fanboy answer? If you don't like the Mac hardware Apple is selling, go to Windows! Now THAT is the real load of bologna, IMO. I'd rather pay more for the OS and have my choice of hardware.