Other PWM crew - SE Plus now rumored for 2023

[MICHAELSD]

I’m most likely keeping iPhone SE. My friends have the latest S21 and iPhone 12 Pro Max so I’ll take another look at them this week, but I’ll probably trade in my 8+ Monday to seal the deal.

Side-by-side it’s not as big of a difference with the 8+, but in actual use it feels more fluid plus the display looks more natural and colors pop.

 

[tonybarnaby]

I’m most likely keeping iPhone SE. My friends have the latest S21 and iPhone 12 Pro Max so I’ll take another look at them this week, but I’ll probably trade in my 8+ Monday to seal the deal.

Side-by-side it’s not as big of a difference with the 8+, but in actual use it feels more fluid plus the display looks more natural and colors pop.

In my short time with it, I didn’t have any issues except for the tiny screen making texting a challenge for me. I have normal sized hands, too. We did it all those years on tiny flip phones, so I’m sure a weekend with the se and I’d be feeling normal.

 

[tonybarnaby]

About to pull the trigger on this for $329. My android phone is just not cutting it and I have until Thursday to return it ($40 fee haha)

This one looks a lot like a refurbished replacement and they’re selling it. It’s too clean to be 3 years old and a brand new battery


Edit: on second thought I’ll hold off a bit and see if this is still around next week. It kills me to buy my 5th 8+ lol

 

[jimmy_uk]

About to pull the trigger on this for $329. My android phone is just not cutting it and I have until Thursday to return it ($40 fee haha)

This one looks a lot like a refurbished replacement and they’re selling it. It’s too clean to be 3 years old and a brand new battery


Edit: on second thought I’ll hold off a bit and see if this is still around next week. It kills me to buy my 5th 8+ lol

Is it not a similar cost to fix up your 8 plus? At least you know where your phone has been and the overall condition of other parts.

 

[tonybarnaby]

Is it not a similar cost to fix up your 8 plus? At least you know where your phone has been and the overall condition of other parts.

Honestly I just thought about that a few minutes ago. I have never cracked a phone back glass so I don’t know what goes into it. My battery is down to 90%, so it maybe has a year left. I know Apple wouldn’t touch it, but maybe one of those phone repair places will. I’d pay $1500 for a pro max right now, but I can’t stomach paying more money for a 4 year old phone haha

 

[jimmy_uk]

Honestly I just thought about that a few minutes ago. I have never cracked a phone back glass so I don’t know what goes into it. My battery is down to 90%, so it maybe has a year left. I know Apple wouldn’t touch it, but maybe one of those phone repair places will. I’d pay $1500 for a pro max right now, but I can’t stomach paying more money for a 4 year old phone haha

I'd only want Apple to repair my phone so I'd know the didn't mess up anything else and at least there be some warranty on the work. Apple definitely won't repair your phone?

If it's only the back glass I assume your using in a case of have a skin? You don't fancy riding it out until the 13 Series?

 

[tonybarnaby]

I'd only want Apple to repair my phone so I'd know the didn't mess up anything else and at least there be some warranty on the work. Apple definitely won't repair your phone?

If it's only the back glass I assume your using in a case of have a skin? You don't fancy riding it out until the 13 Series?

I think something is wrong with me cause my Moto lcd is giving me headaches. I am not even sure I have pwm sensitivity now. I think it might be a general temporal dithering thing I really don’t know. This is now the second lcd phone to give me “pwm” headaches along with the iPhone 11. I used android amoled for years without a single issue. I think the real problem is my eyes/brain and the 8+ is the only phone I know works for me 100% that isn’t ancient yet. I have bigger problems than most lol

 

[jimmy_uk]

I think something is wrong with me cause my Moto lcd is giving me headaches. I am not even sure I have pwm sensitivity now. I think it might be a general temporal dithering thing I really don’t know. This is now the second lcd phone to give me “pwm” headaches along with the iPhone 11. I used android amoled for years without a single issue. I think the real problem is my eyes/brain and the 8+ is the only phone I know works for me 100% that isn’t ancient yet. I have bigger problems than most lol

The one thing I notice with the iphone 11 for example is how much brighter it seems compared to the Plus iPhones. I find my focus becomes very centralised when looking at it then I notice the bright shimmer with very miner movement. When I look away my focus feels off, almost like the effect OLED brings. I get none of this my with 7 Plus. Your not alone.

 

[now i see it]

I agree w @jimmy_uk.
I have an old iPhone 6 Plus (401 ppi LCD display) and a much newer but smaller iPhone 8 (326 ppi LCD display). While the smaller iPhone 8 has better color and contrast, it definitely bugs my eyes more that the iPhone 6 Plus display even though they're both LCDs.
I've compared them side by side when reading the same text zoomed to the same size. The iPhone 8 starts bugging my eyes.. Bottom line — I don't like looking at it for long so I rarely use it.

 

[Ac1d 8urn]

This may be a complete and total placebo effect, but I've gotten a bit of relief from putting a blue light-blocking screen protector on my 12PM. It's been a few days now and I haven't had any headaches and my eyes feel much better overall, gonna try it for a few more days to see how it goes 🤞 I wonder if maybe I'm just sensitive to blue light instead of PWM, mostly because I get eyestrain from staring at my monitors for 8 hours at work too and they are definitely not OLED. I also wonder if it has anything to do with getting laser eye surgery a couple years ago as that's when I started getting much more frequent headaches. I'd love to know how many PWM sensitive people also have vision issues.

 

[jimmy_uk]

This may be a complete and total placebo effect, but I've gotten a bit of relief from putting a blue light-blocking screen protector on my 12PM. It's been a few days now and I haven't had any headaches and my eyes feel much better overall, gonna try it for a few more days to see how it goes 🤞 I wonder if maybe I'm just sensitive to blue light instead of PWM, mostly because I get eyestrain from staring at my monitors for 8 hours at work too and they are definitely not OLED. I also wonder if it has anything to do with getting laser eye surgery a couple years ago as that's when I started getting much more frequent headaches. I'd love to know how many PWM sensitive people also have vision issues.

Great news your getting accustomed to your 12PM. I'm jealous. Are you running iOS 14.5? I'd love to know if Apple has made changes to flickering.

With regards to your question - I'm short sighted and wear contact lenses during the day and glasses in the late evening. I'm also prone to migraines, usually triggered through stress or tiredness as I've not found out about any other causes like food or allergies etc.

I spend my days as a graphic designer starring at screens for 8+hrs a day with no issues. Then I'm glued to my 7 Plus and my OLED tv.

Using any iphone with OLED gives me eye strain within 10 minutes usually. When using the 12PM I didn't really notice discomfort like before until hours later. The next day I had a nightmare migraine and couldn't see right for days but I did muddy the waters by using a standard 12 as well which was noticeably bad on my eyes. Due to how bad I felt I swiftly returned both to Apple vowing to never try OLED iPhones again.

 

[Ac1d 8urn]

Great news your getting accustomed to your 12PM. I'm jealous. Are you running iOS 14.5? I'd love to know if Apple has made changes to flickering.

With regards to your question - I'm short sighted and wear contact lenses during the day and glasses in the late evening. I'm also prone to migraines, usually triggered through stress or tiredness as I've not found out about any other causes like food or allergies etc.

I spend my days as a graphic designer starring at screens for 8+hrs a day with no issues. Then I'm glued to my 7 Plus and my OLED tv.

Using any iphone with OLED gives me eye strain within 10 minutes usually. When using the 12PM I didn't really notice discomfort like before until hours later. The next day I had a nightmare migraine and couldn't see right for days but I did muddy the waters by using a standard 12 as well which was noticeably bad on my eyes. Due to how bad I felt I swiftly returned both to Apple vowing to never try OLED iPhones again.

14.6 beta 2, it's entirely possible they changed some things. I'm reserving my final verdict for now just in case I'm just having some unusual good days lol. And thanks for answering my question, I was extremely short sighted too before my surgery.

 

[tonybarnaby]

14.6 beta 2, it's entirely possible they changed some things. I'm reserving my final verdict for now just in case I'm just having some unusual good days lol. And thanks for answering my question, I was extremely short sighted too before my surgery.

From my understanding, pwm can’t be changed via a software update. They could add dc dimming, but Apple will never do that because the side effects in terms of colors can be very bad. And if Apple had addressed pwm issues, I’m convinced they would have made a huge deal out of it. I’m just negative because I’m still using an 8+ and my 12 year old has a flagship haha

Its great to see you’re able to use the phone, though! I’m curious to hear back in a week. I have heard many “I think I’m ok now” stories, but they usually end up right back at square one.

 

[Ac1d 8urn]

From my understanding, pwm can’t be changed via a software update. They could add dc dimming, but Apple will never do that because the side effects in terms of colors can be very bad. And if Apple had addressed pwm issues, I’m convinced they would have made a huge deal out of it. I’m just negative because I’m still using an 8+ and my 12 year old has a flagship haha

Its great to see you’re able to use the phone, though! I’m curious to hear back in a week. I have heard many “I think I’m ok now” stories, but they usually end up right back at square one.

I'll be sure to update at the end of the week!

 

[MICHAELSD]

From my understanding, pwm can’t be changed via a software update. They could add dc dimming, but Apple will never do that because the side effects in terms of colors can be very bad. And if Apple had addressed pwm issues, I’m convinced they would have made a huge deal out of it. I’m just negative because I’m still using an 8+ and my 12 year old has a flagship haha

Its great to see you’re able to use the phone, though! I’m curious to hear back in a week. I have heard many “I think I’m ok now” stories, but they usually end up right back at square one.

I’m convinced there hasn’t been a software adjustment. I still got the faintest hint of a migraine from staring at an iPhone 12 Pro Max for thirty seconds.

LCD does have its benefits on a phone. LG’s OLED television is beautiful and without issue besides burn-in, but OLED looks off on both the 12PM and S21.

 

[MICHAELSD]

This is an interesting phenomenon: After two weeks with iPhone SE iPhone 8 Plus feels massive. I’m starting to prefer the smaller size. It’s better for one-handed use and it takes up practically no space in a pocket.

Same with iPhone 12 Pro Max. It’s like a tablet in comparison. This is odd to me because again I wished for a larger display on iPhone 11, but I think a part of that is that the display quality is oddly better on iPhone SE which makes me enjoy it more. If I was to upgrade to a PWM-free flagship iPhone in the future I think I may start with the base size and see how that goes. The Mini is an interesting value proposition as well, I may even give iPhone 13 Mini a shot.

 

[Stuey3D]

Here is my opinion on this subject.

I have an 11 and a 12 Pro Max, the 11 is an absolutely fantastic phone let down by its Achilles heel which is the sub par Intel modem. The 11 doesn’t feel any different performance wise when I am at home on WiFi to the 12 Pro Max, although I am not a mobile gamer so I likely wouldn’t notice anyway.

As a PWM sufferer the screen on the 11 is far better for me, and in most indoor and dimly lit situations it is the superior experience over the 12 Pro Max and using white point accessibility settings to reduce PWM effects, although the 12 Pro Max is the far better phone outside.

However the modem in the 12 Pro Max far outperforms the one in the 11 by a long shot it’s not even funny, and I’m not talking 5G either this is just standard LTE performance. It is also significantly more reliable on my network provider of choice too, often on my 11 it would indicate a 4G LTE signal but would hang or be very slow until I toggle airplane mode which then usually restores the connection to a decent speed, none of these issues on the 12 Pro Max for me it just works and works very well at that.

If Apple does what they’ve historically done with the SE and put new guts into an old shell, we are realistically looking at an 11 with 2022’s iPhone internals and unless the 2022 iPhone has had a radical design change or some major revolutionary feature in the meantime I foresee the new SE eating a lot of the sales of that iPhone.

In my opinion right now if they were to slap the 12’s modem in the 11 and leave it at that even keeping the A13 that phone would be too good and would seriously dent sales of the 12 series which is why I don’t think we will see an larger SE until 2023 at minimum. By 2023 5G would have been around long enough that budget phones would mostly by 5G and at that point Apple would have to stick a 5G modem in the SE to be competitive. If for some reason they do release a 6.1” SE in 2022 a bit earlier than the 2023 of this rumour I would suspect it would be locked to 4G only and I think that may harm sales as I suspect the mobile networks would be pushing for sales of 5G phones heavily by then too.

 

[snipr125]

This is an interesting phenomenon: After two weeks with iPhone SE iPhone 8 Plus feels massive. I’m starting to prefer the smaller size. It’s better for one-handed use and it takes up practically no space in a pocket.

Same with iPhone 12 Pro Max. It’s like a tablet in comparison. This is odd to me because again I wished for a larger display on iPhone 11, but I think a part of that is that the display quality is oddly better on iPhone SE which makes me enjoy it more. If I was to upgrade to a PWM-free flagship iPhone in the future I think I may start with the base size and see how that goes. The Mini is an interesting value proposition as well, I may even give iPhone 13 Mini a shot.

Michael, i can definitely second this. I keep all my iphones, so I have my 6s Plus, 8 Plus and SE2 at home on my desk. I charge them to keep them maintained, but every time i pick up the 8+ it is just comically humungous compared to my 12 Mini. It never felt THAT big when I used it daily. Great phone though.

 

[MICHAELSD]

Michael, i can definitely second this. I keep all my iphones, so I have my 6s Plus, 8 Plus and SE2 at home on my desk. I charge them to keep them maintained, but every time i pick up the 8+ it is just comically humungous compared to my 12 Mini. It never felt THAT big when I used it daily. Great phone though.

It is extremely odd. I would have suspected the opposite: that iPhone SE would feel comically tiny over time. Now I look at people with the Max-sized iPhones and think that the form factor looks ridiculously large, so now I get where consumers are coming from when they say that. Even the 6.1” iPhone 12 feels significantly larger.

iPhone 12 Pro, and not the Max, seems to be the phone of choice among celebrities and people of influence that could be purchasing any size. (Although once resale is factored in the Max is only ~ $50 more. Cost is negligible at that point, so it all comes down to size.)

 

[MICHAELSD]

Also odd: I’ve managed to scratch the glass on iPhone SE, although that’s probably just the oleophobic coating.

I suspect it happened when my phone fell between the seat of my car while getting in. It’s not unbearable but a slight annoyance. While my 8+ would have light scratches too under bright light this is the first time I’ve managed to notably scratch the glass on an iPhone, so the coatings may be slightly soft. I’ve also heard of the Ceramic Shield on iPhone 12 being easier to scratch.

As far as typing goes I’ve found I make more mistakes but I like the display and form factor enough to keep iPhone SE regardless. Seriously, the display for a LCD is just about excellent. Even 720p video looks impressively sharp.

 

[Ac1d 8urn]

Update- so I've had the Zagg visionguard on all week now and I've noticed a major improvement. I even purposely increased my phone usage and still didn't get anywhere near as much eyestrain as before. Maybe some mild irritation after a while, but not enough to trigger any headaches. Unfortunately though I cracked it lifting up one corner to get a dust particle out, so today I took it off and put on a plain glass one as sort of a final "test". Sure enough, my eyes started jitterbugging after a few minutes. Feel a headache starting right now actually 😂 Back on my 8+ until a replacement arrives from Zagg.

So... yeah. I'm sure it won't work for everyone, but it's something to try.

 

[MICHAELSD]

Update- so I've had the Zagg visionguard on all week now and I've noticed a major improvement. I even purposely increased my phone usage and still didn't get anywhere near as much eyestrain as before. Maybe some mild irritation after a while, but not enough to trigger any headaches. Unfortunately though I cracked it lifting up one corner to get a dust particle out, so today I took it off and put on a plain glass one as sort of a final "test". Sure enough, my eyes started jitterbugging after a few minutes. Feel a headache starting right now actually 😂 Back on my 8+ until a replacement arrives from Zagg.

So... yeah. I'm sure it won't work for everyone, but it's something to try.

Have you tried iPhone SE?

My only question really is why they put a better display on this phone than they did on iPhone 11, but I think I could answer that since the main differentiation between the standard iPhone 11 and the Pro models was the display.

 

[MICHAELSD]

Have I mentioned how good this display is? Kudos to Apple for putting their best LCD on a “budget” iPhone.

 

[The.Glorious.Son]

Have you tried iPhone SE?

My only question really is why they put a better display on this phone than they did on iPhone 11, but I think I could answer that since the main differentiation between the standard iPhone 11 and the Pro models was the display.

I’d have to argue that is a subjective take. I’ve used both side by side and found the 11 to have the better screen. At least to my eyes. But I also struggle with such a small screen as the 4.7”. Weird how it was fine to me when it first came out. But now, I couldn’t go smaller than 6.1”.

That said the screen on the SE is excellent and I can see how others like yourself would find it better than the 11. Our eyes are unique haha.

 

[MICHAELSD]

I’d have to argue that is a subjective take. I’ve used both side by side and found the 11 to have the better screen. At least to my eyes. But I also struggle with such a small screen as the 4.7”. Weird how it was fine to me when it first came out. But now, I couldn’t go smaller than 6.1”.

That said the screen on the SE is excellent and I can see how others like yourself would find it better than the 11. Our eyes are unique haha.

iPhone 11 has slightly deeper colors, while iPhone SE has significantly better contrast. Both of which Notebookcheck’s measurements pick up. Maybe there’s influence to that degree but my eyes are sensitive to those differences, and usually pretty accurate.