Question: How powerful of a graphics card will work in a beige Power Macintosh G3?

[LightBulbFun]

ill see what I can do to try and wrangle a G4 into this just incase its a processor incompatibility

Scratch that idea for now, turns out that my SCSI emulator Device a BlueSCSI, seems to stop working in OpenFirmware when I install a G4 into my 9600, on either BlueSCSI firmware or ZuluSCSI firmware, no errors in the logfile either, still works fine under the classic Mac OS, but not under OpenFirmware


on the stock 604ev CPU I have been running the ZuluSCSI firmware since that has been better behaved with my 9600, again both firmwares work fine under Classic MacOS, but I found the BlueSCSI firmware would give me errors booting OS X Server 1.2v3 and in the log file it was clearly unhappy about things

so I switched to the ZuluSCSI firmware and that does seem to be much better behaved booting OS X, but again thats just on the stock 604ev, neither firmware work with a G4 under OpenFirmware sadly (so I cant even begin to boot OS X) the acess light comes on solid but then I just get a "can't LOAD from this device" after a while before it tried again etc



the fact that the device works with a 604ev but not the faster G4 7410 does smack of a timing issue to me, I wonder if this issue rearing its head again?

Stability issues on Power Mac 9600's internal (FAST SCSI-2) bus · Issue #18 · ZuluSCSI/ZuluSCSI-firmware

I'm having some trouble getting a ZuluSCSI 1.1 working with my Power Mac 9600. Sometimes it'll work insofar as I can get the system to boot, but if I try to copy a file to the image loaded into the...

github.com

 

[pc297]

I did indeed its for 3.3V capable AGP cards only so no X850 XT im afraid, but it should still hopefully be good for a Radeon 9800 Pro, its funny I got the adapter from a good friend of mine who got it some years back from here https://www.cpu-world.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=31173 and it was so stereotypical I was literally like "how long have you had that for?! I have been looking for one one of those for years and years now!" so he very kindly sold to me for just what he paid for it back then

View attachment 2396409

I also have a passive PCI to AGP riser card I got from @Amethyst1 a few years ago with an EFIKA 5200 he very kindly sent me, but the problem I soon realised with that and beige macs, is that passive adapter is for 3.3V PCI slots *only* Im pretty sure even tho its universally keyed if I tried in a Beige Mac's 5V slot BadThings(TM) would happen, so thats why I was very excited to get this active adapter but I am still planning on trying out the passive adapter with my G3 Blue and white's 3.3V 66Mhz slot, I hope it works there at least because that would remove any overhead of having a PCI-PCI bridge in the middle

Nice one, you should try slapping in an AGP 6200-WANG, they are universally keyed and 3.3V afaik, the lid could even potentially close

 

[LightBulbFun]

Nice one, you should try slapping in an AGP 6200-WANG, they are universally keyed and 3.3V afaik, the lid could even potentially close

for that tho I have an actual PCI native, PNY GeForce 6200 most of this thread is about making PCI GeForce 6200's work in beige macs and finally giving them core image

 

[aquabox]

Hello everyone.

I been downloaded New World ROMs so long time ago.

and now, It got deleted for now.

Here I went to deleted file (NewWorldROMS.zip) from Dropbox:

Could you guys restore or backup from this file (NewWorldROMS.zip) for me? If not, That's okay.

Thanks.

 

[Rairii]

I have the file, but I assume @joevt deleted it for a reason (maybe to update it to include additional rom dumps?).

 

[eastone]

@aquabox
Have you try there?

All Macintosh ROMs (68K + PPC) - Macintosh Repository

This is an archive containing all of the most popular Macintosh models ROM files for emulation purposes, ranging from the first 64K ROM from the...

www.macintoshrepository.org

 

[Rairii]

the so-called "new world" ROMs there are actually the classic MacOS bootloaders.

 

[joevt]

I been downloaded New World ROMs so long time ago.

and now, It got deleted for now.

Here I went to deleted file (NewWorldROMS.zip) from Dropbox:

Could you guys restore or backup from this file (NewWorldROMS.zip) for me? If not, That's okay.

Try this one:

NewWorldROMs.zip

Shared with Dropbox

www.dropbox.com

Some other updated downloads:

ROMDumps.zip

Shared with Dropbox

www.dropbox.com

ROMDumpWorksheets.zip

Shared with Dropbox

www.dropbox.com

 

[aquabox]

Try this one:

NewWorldROMs.zip

Shared with Dropbox

www.dropbox.com

Some other updated downloads:

ROMDumps.zip

Shared with Dropbox

www.dropbox.com

ROMDumpWorksheets.zip

Shared with Dropbox

www.dropbox.com

Thanks for reuploading these files here, I can finally start on this DingusPPC.

 

[joevt]

The 7800GT worked when connected to my B&W G4. I used a 64 bit 33MHz slot to connect the Netstor NA255A which had the 7800GT and some Thunderbolt add-in cards installed. I kept the 9200 in the 32 bit 66 MHz slot.

...

I booted into Mac OS X 10.4.11 and did some OpenMark benchmarks (see attached). A Quad G5 has score 9331 for 1920x1080 while the B&W G4 has a score of 7372 and the Radeon 9200 is 1179.

...

I tried the 7800GT in the 66 MHz slot of the B&W G4 (using the Netstor NA255A again). It didn't improve OpenMark benchmarks. I got 7189 at 1920x1080 and 7746 fro 2560x1440. I had 7746 last time with the 33 MHz slot for 2560x1440.

I think I'll give up on trying to get it to work in the Power Mac 8600. Unless someone else has success.
I've attached 7800 #29 containing my latest changes that I tried in the Power Mac 8600 and B&W G3.

 

[DearthnVader]

I tried the 7800GT in the 66 MHz slot of the B&W G4 (using the Netstor NA255A again). It didn't improve OpenMark benchmarks. I got 7189 at 1920x1080 and 7746 fro 2560x1440. I had 7746 last time with the 33 MHz slot for 2560x1440.

I think I'll give up on trying to get it to work in the Power Mac 8600. Unless someone else has success.
I've attached 7800 #29 containing my latest changes that I tried in the Power Mac 8600 and B&W G3.

Did you use Reggie SE from developer tool to check the Command register of your PCI to PCI-E bridge to see if it is marked 66MHz compatible?

 

[LightBulbFun]

I tried the 7800GT in the 66 MHz slot of the B&W G4 (using the Netstor NA255A again). It didn't improve OpenMark benchmarks. I got 7189 at 1920x1080 and 7746 fro 2560x1440. I had 7746 last time with the 33 MHz slot for 2560x1440.

I think the Openmark benchmark ends up a bit CPU bound when you have such a fast GPU with such a relatively slow CPU EDIT tho thinking about it, you have a 1Ghz sonnet G4 in that system right? so perhaps its more just bound by the 60x system bus (being clocked at 66Mhz)

sorry to hear its still not playing ball in the 8600, I really do wonder whats going on with that, especially given my success with the Quadro FX 4500 in the 9600

 

[joevt]

Did you use Reggie SE from developer tool to check the Command register of your PCI to PCI-E bridge to see if it is marked 66MHz compatible?

I use lspci from my pciutils fork.

The PCIe bridge is at
00:10.0 PCI bridge [0604]: Pericom Semiconductor PI7C9X111SL PCIe-to-PCI Reversible Bridge [12d8:e111] (rev 02) (prog-if 00 [Normal decode])
The 66MHz status flag is set.
The Secondary status flag doesn't have 66MHz but that's ok because the secondary is PCIe, not PCI?

I've attached output from my pcitree.sh script, lspci, and also output from Open Firmware.

dev / ls
devalias
printenv
nvramrc type
nvramrc dump
dump-device-tree
multi-boot

Notice how the PCIe bridge has the Radeon saved nvram property (R2AD). That's because properties are saved by device path only, with no vendor or device ID check.

The lspci output does not show PCIe config registers and capabilities - that would require a PCI bridge kext that knows how to read PCIe config registers using the PCIe bridge interface.
The lspci output from a G5 does include PCIe config registers. Notice the PCIe capabilities at offset 0x100 and 0x128.

sorry to hear its still not playing ball in the 8600, I really do wonder whats going on with that, especially given my success with the Quadro FX 4500 in the 9600

Which slots worked in the 9600? Are you using a StarTech PCIe bridge or a different brand?

 

[DearthnVader]

I use lspci from my pciutils fork.

The PCIe bridge is at
00:10.0 PCI bridge [0604]: Pericom Semiconductor PI7C9X111SL PCIe-to-PCI Reversible Bridge [12d8:e111] (rev 02) (prog-if 00 [Normal decode])
The 66MHz status flag is set.
The Secondary status flag doesn't have 66MHz but that's ok because the secondary is PCIe, not PCI?

I've attached output from my pcitree.sh script, lspci, and also output from Open Firmware.

dev / ls
devalias
printenv
nvramrc type
nvramrc dump
dump-device-tree
multi-boot

Notice how the PCIe bridge has the Radeon saved nvram property (R2AD). That's because properties are saved by device path only, with no vendor or device ID check.

The lspci output does not show PCIe config registers and capabilities - that would require a PCI bridge kext that knows how to read PCIe config registers using the PCIe bridge interface.
The lspci output from a G5 does include PCIe config registers. Notice the PCIe capabilities at offset 0x100 and 0x128.


Which slots worked in the 9600? Are you using a StarTech PCIe bridge or a different brand?

I did note in my PCI-X G5 that the Radeon X1900 XT was much faster in OpenMark and other 3D games and benchmarks than the 7800 GT using the PCI to PCI-E for both.

Could be a driver issue, not that there is much of anything we can do about that.

I moved to a bigger place, but I have not setup my mad scientist lab yet, when I do I'll look at this again, but I'm pretty sure the nVidia PCI-E cards are way slower than the ATI cards when used in 66MHz mode of our bridges.

Even in 33MHz mode I noted that the GF6600 was far slower in my Beige than the native PCI GF6200.

 

[LightBulbFun]

Which slots worked in the 9600? Are you using a StarTech PCIe bridge or a different brand?

indeed I am using a Startech branded PCI to PCIe adapter, I have not tried the whole caboddle in all 6 slots slots of the 9600, but I did try the Quadro FX 4500 on both Bandit buses of the 9600 and it worked without issue in both

here it is in slot A1

and slot D2 on the 2nd Bandit bus

 

[joevt]

Might be a difference between 9600 Mach 5 and original 8600 - Bandit revision? Or a difference between FX 4500 and 7800GT or a difference between fcode version 2149 and 2152.2

 

[DearthnVader]

Might be a difference between 9600 Mach 5 and original 8600 - Bandit revision? Or a difference between FX 4500 and 7800GT or a difference between fcode version 2149 and 2152.2

I really think it's the FCode version, the 7800GS ROM from the Mac Elite could be edited with the BMP for the 7800GT, then you could work the old world magic on it.

If you post the original bios I'll see if I can remember how to do all the edits, then flash it back and make sure it work right in the G5. Once we get that working you can do the old world stuff to it and see if it works in the 8600.

I made the GS ROM from the Quadro ROM so it would fit on a 64k eprom.

 

[joevt]

If you post the original bios I'll see if I can remember how to do all the edits, then flash it back and make sure it work right in the G5. Once we get that working you can do the old world stuff to it and see if it works in the 8600.

The new bios (7800 #29) has all the info of the original bios so you should be able to use that.
But I've attached the original anyway (7800GT.rom). It's the same as the 66.5KiB "GF 7800 GT 2152.2" version but with padding for 128KiB.

 

[joevt]

Moved the pci-pci bridge patches at #822 into an attachment.