Returning my 16 MBP

[richinaus]

I have just received my custom MBP. I will be putting it through its paces for sure, and if it doesnt stand up as I need it to, it will be going back and I will get a base 16” model in the sales, just to have a mobile for lighter work and get a new desktop for my heavier work [which is most likely a PC as Apple dont make a desktop for me].... well my iMac Pro is good but I am really getting a bit annoyed with the lack of upgradability

 

[jerryk]

I have just received my custom MBP. I will be putting it through its paces for sure, and if it doesnt stand up as I need it to, it will be going back and I will get a base 16” model in the sales, just to have a mobile for lighter work and get a new desktop for my heavier work [which is most likely a PC as Apple dont make a desktop for me].... well my iMac Pro is good but I am really getting a bit annoyed with the lack of upgradability

Only easily upgradable Mac is the Mac Pro. Designed from the beginning to be upgradable! Not too bad a starting price when compared to iMac plus Mac Book Pro that a lot of people have.

 

[seeforyourself]

I am considering on returning mine because I think I made a silly purchase. I’m a student and it’s so much heavier than my previous 15” and it’s just too big for what I need. I want to get the 13” now, but unfortunately the biggest factor of me getting the 16” was because of the faulty butterfly keyboard. I wish Apple released the 13” redesigned keyboard alongside of the 16” so I would of never needed to go through this.

 

[maflynn]

I wish Apple released the 13” redesigned keyboard alongside of the 16”

If you can wait until spring, apple will hopefully roll out a 13" model with the scissor switches.

 

[seeforyourself]

If you can wait until spring, apple will hopefully roll out a 13" model with the scissor switches.

Luckily my last final for the semester is tomorrow and the return period is until January 8th (or 6th, I can't find the receipt) so I might return it come January.

I wonder when in spring they will release it though. My classes start again January 27th, so hopefully it's early spring and I will just use my old 2010 iMac until it's released.

 

[49erRedGold]

Luckily my last final for the semester is tomorrow and the return period is until January 8th (or 6th, I can't find the receipt) so I might return it come January.

I wonder when in spring they will release it though. My classes start again January 27th, so hopefully it's early spring and I will just use my old 2010 iMac until it's released.

I would recommend you return it ASAP. Milking the return policy deadline could lead you into accidentally spilling or causing some sort of damage that will prevent you from getting a refund.

 

[CloudsNeverDie]

I will be returning mine and going back to my late 2013 MBP 15" for now:

• The response time on the panel is much worse on the MBP 16". I do see ghosting when scrolling text.
• The new scissor switch keyboard is better than the butterfly keyboard for sure, but even after three weeks I still can't get used to it. Not enough travel and too much tactile feedback.
• I really don't like the touch bar. It's distracting and I don't find it useful. I figured out how to turn it off with BetterTouchTool but I still get a lot of accidental touches when using the number keys. There's no way to change the brightness or turn it off completely in System Preferences. I need real function keys for development work. I prefer real physical buttons to adjust brightness and volume.
• The lack of USB-A ports is more of an issue than I realized. Most of my peripherals are USB-A, and searching for and fiddling with dongles every time I want to plug something in is getting tiresome.
• The speakers are great on paper but I don't enjoy listening to them in practice. I use Boom3D to EQ them to my preferences (I cut all freqs below 80Hz by the max dB, 200-800Hz by 2dB, and boost at 1kHz by 6dB) but it's buggy and adds latency. The speakers are loud, but distorted. It seems like Apple is trying to squeeze more sound out of them than tiny speakers are capable of producing.
• The trackpad is great, but just too damn big. I constantly have issues where gestures don't work correctly because my palm or a finger of the other hand is resting on the pad, and palm rejection isn't working sufficiently well. When typing there's nowhere to rest my thumbs without touching the trackpad.
• The performance improvement over my late 2013 is not very significant in practice. I measured Xcode and Android build times on both machines, and it's only ~20% faster. My desktop Hackintosh is 2x faster at the same tasks (and cost half the price).
• No MagSafe, and it's awkward having this 1-inch USB-C cable sticking out the side constantly. No doubt one day I will bend the connector accidentally and have to shell out for a new power adapter.
• No upgradability and poor repairability. My 2013 MBP 15" has now needed to have every component replaced apart from the SSD, and it was expensive, e.g. a RAM replacement cost $1000 because the entire logic board had to be replaced while the actual DRAM board itself would have cost less than $100 to replace myself.
• The annoying "MacBook Pro" logo beneath the screen. My late 2013 MBP 15" had no such vulgar branding.
• Sucky webcam.
• No Wifi 6.

All in all, I'm quite disappointed, especially for the price. I paid ~$4K, but I can get an equivalently specced Windows laptop for ~$1600. It would make sense if I loved the laptop, but as you can see, I really don't. It just doesn't make sense to keep it.

 

[49erRedGold]

I will be returning mine and going back to my late 2013 MBP 15" for now:

• The response time on the panel is much worse on the MBP 16". I do see ghosting when scrolling text.
• The new scissor switch keyboard is better than the butterfly keyboard for sure, but even after three weeks I still can't get used to it. Not enough travel and too much tactile feedback.
• I really don't like the touch bar. It's distracting and I don't find it useful. I figured out how to turn it off with BetterTouchTool but I still get a lot of accidental touches when using the number keys. There's no way to change the brightness or turn it off completely in System Preferences. I need real function keys for development work. I prefer real physical buttons to adjust brightness and volume.
• The lack of USB-A ports is more of an issue than I realized. Most of my peripherals are USB-A, and searching for and fiddling with dongles every time I want to plug something in is getting tiresome.
• The speakers are great on paper but I don't enjoy listening to them in practice. I use Boom3D to EQ them to my preferences (I cut all freqs below 80Hz by the max dB, 200-800Hz by 2dB, and boost at 1kHz by 6dB) but it's buggy and adds latency. The speakers are loud, but distorted. It seems like Apple is trying to squeeze more sound out of them than tiny speakers are capable of producing.
• The trackpad is great, but just too damn big. I constantly have issues where gestures don't work correctly because my palm or a finger of the other hand is resting on the pad, and palm rejection isn't working sufficiently well. When typing there's nowhere to rest my thumbs without touching the trackpad.
• The performance improvement over my late 2013 is not very significant in practice. I measured Xcode and Android build times on both machines, and it's only ~20% faster. My desktop Hackintosh is 2x faster at the same tasks (and cost half the price).
• No MagSafe, and it's awkward having this 1-inch USB-C cable sticking out the side constantly. No doubt one day I will bend the connector accidentally and have to shell out for a new power adapter.
• No upgradability and poor repairability. My 2013 MBP 15" has now needed to have every component replaced apart from the SSD, and it was expensive, e.g. a RAM replacement cost $1000 because the entire logic board had to be replaced while the actual DRAM board itself would have cost less than $100 to replace myself.
• The annoying "MacBook Pro" logo beneath the screen. My late 2013 MBP 15" had no such vulgar branding.
• Sucky webcam.
• No Wifi 6.

All in all, I'm quite disappointed, especially for the price. I paid ~$4K, but I can get an equivalently specced Windows laptop for ~$1600. It would make sense if I loved the laptop, but as you can see, I really don't. It just doesn't make sense to keep it.

Every single thing you mentioned could've been easily checked out before you bought. I never understand people doing zero homework/pretesting before buying a $3000 computer, then live to tell a forum they are returning it.

 

[CloudsNeverDie]

Every single thing you mentioned could've been easily checked out before you bought. I never understand people doing zero homework/pretesting before buying a $3000 computer, then live to tell a forum they are returning it.

You are entirely wrong: I actually spent two hours sitting in front of one in the store before purchasing, which I think is more than a reasonable amount of due diligence.

Almost all the bugbears I mentioned above, I discovered only after a few weeks actually using the machine on a daily basis. If you think the average user - or even a *power* user such as myself - is going to figure out all the above issues after even two or three times the amount of pre-purchase due diligence that I undertook, your expectations are entirely out of line with reality.

 

[M3Jedi77]

I've had my 16" for about 3 weeks now (2.4 i9, 64GB RAM, 1TB, 5300M).

I noticed the YouTube issue at first, after 10.15.2, its gone for me.

I've never noticed a coil whine. But I'm 36 and while my high frequency hearing is maybe better than most my age, its not what it was in my early 20s either, so I might simply not hear it.

On external monitors, I seem to run into issues when I go from my LG 34" 5x2K to a 1080 projector and back to the LG. Not always, but sometimes. And the only thing that seems to fix it is a reboot. I need to trouble shoot this more though. It might has to do with the particular adapters used, or maybe I can prevent it through when the computer sleeps or awakens relative to when the displays are connected/disconnected.

And fans, well, that's what you get with pushing your laptop hard. I've always pushed laptops relatively hard and this one isn't particularly louder or quieter than others. It is very noticeably faster though. As others have said, if you don't want the fan noise on you laptop, you'll need to use a desktop or a much thicker laptop. One alternative is that you could remote into a desktop. Say, keep the 2013 Mac Pro, but get a 13/14" MacBook Pro when they update. Then "consolidate" by using screen share or ssh.

I don't really want to tell you what to do, but this 16" is about equally as fast as my 12 core 2013 Mac Pro. You certainly could consolidate into this one machine, if the fit is right. I might suggest making sure you're completely up to date on the software, then giving it a week of try out. Sometimes just switching between what you're used to into something new can be jarring and buyer remorse sets in. If in a week or more, you're still not happy, by all means get something that will make you happy. And if really this comes down to a fan noise issue (as I think all the other ones are probably solvable in some way) you could use a fan control app, then your computer will just slow down to match the heat dissipation. Performance will suffer, but it will likely be faster than just about any other silent and portable options out there.

A bit off-topic but how is the LG 34" 5k2k working out for you? I'm trying to determine whether to go YOLO and buy the XDR with my MBP 16", or the LG 34" 5k2k (which is a downgrade in pixel density from my current 5k iMac, but maybe the extra real estate makes up for that?).

 

[richinaus]

Only easily upgradable Mac is the Mac Pro. Designed from the beginning to be upgradable! Not too bad a starting price when compared to iMac plus Mac Book Pro that a lot of people have.

It would be a great solution if portable thats the benefit of the MacBook and imac. But yes it is a similar starting price.
Anyway I will test it out over the holidays and make my mind up on it. I will be stressing the gpu and cpu to the max in real life apps and see how it compares.

 

[Sanpete]

I will be returning mine and going back to my late 2013 MBP 15" for now:

• The response time on the panel is much worse on the MBP 16". I do see ghosting when scrolling text.
• The new scissor switch keyboard is better than the butterfly keyboard for sure, but even after three weeks I still can't get used to it. Not enough travel and too much tactile feedback.
• I really don't like the touch bar. It's distracting and I don't find it useful. I figured out how to turn it off with BetterTouchTool but I still get a lot of accidental touches when using the number keys. There's no way to change the brightness or turn it off completely in System Preferences. I need real function keys for development work. I prefer real physical buttons to adjust brightness and volume.
• The lack of USB-A ports is more of an issue than I realized. Most of my peripherals are USB-A, and searching for and fiddling with dongles every time I want to plug something in is getting tiresome.
• The speakers are great on paper but I don't enjoy listening to them in practice. I use Boom3D to EQ them to my preferences (I cut all freqs below 80Hz by the max dB, 200-800Hz by 2dB, and boost at 1kHz by 6dB) but it's buggy and adds latency. The speakers are loud, but distorted. It seems like Apple is trying to squeeze more sound out of them than tiny speakers are capable of producing.
• The trackpad is great, but just too damn big. I constantly have issues where gestures don't work correctly because my palm or a finger of the other hand is resting on the pad, and palm rejection isn't working sufficiently well. When typing there's nowhere to rest my thumbs without touching the trackpad.
• The performance improvement over my late 2013 is not very significant in practice. I measured Xcode and Android build times on both machines, and it's only ~20% faster. My desktop Hackintosh is 2x faster at the same tasks (and cost half the price).
• No MagSafe, and it's awkward having this 1-inch USB-C cable sticking out the side constantly. No doubt one day I will bend the connector accidentally and have to shell out for a new power adapter.
• No upgradability and poor repairability. My 2013 MBP 15" has now needed to have every component replaced apart from the SSD, and it was expensive, e.g. a RAM replacement cost $1000 because the entire logic board had to be replaced while the actual DRAM board itself would have cost less than $100 to replace myself.
• The annoying "MacBook Pro" logo beneath the screen. My late 2013 MBP 15" had no such vulgar branding.
• Sucky webcam.
• No Wifi 6.

All in all, I'm quite disappointed, especially for the price. I paid ~$4K, but I can get an equivalently specced Windows laptop for ~$1600. It would make sense if I loved the laptop, but as you can see, I really don't. It just doesn't make sense to keep it.

Most of these points have discussed to death since 2016 or long before. Some of them I don't understand as complaints (such as the comparison to a desktop, or the complaint about dongles you can cheaply avoid by getting proper cables or adapters and leaving them in place with your peripherals), and some are peculiar to your personal practices (such as typing with thumbs off the keyboard), but that's fine. Everyone should have what works for them if they can.

I won't repeat what's been said so many times, only add that your speakers may not be working correctly.

 

[jerryk]

It would be a great solution if portable thats the benefit of the MacBook and imac. But yes it is a similar starting price.
Anyway I will test it out over the holidays and make my mind up on it. I will be stressing the gpu and cpu to the max in real life apps and see how it compares.

Please keep us posted on your tests.

And the Mac Pro is portable. It fits in the back of my 7 passenger SUV with room to spare.

 

[impulse462]

• The annoying "MacBook Pro" logo beneath the screen. My late 2013 MBP 15" had no such vulgar branding.

This made me chuckle. Literally every other macbook has had this. the 2012-2015 were the exceptions

 

[wallysb01]

A bit off-topic but how is the LG 34" 5k2k working out for you? I'm trying to determine whether to go YOLO and buy the XDR with my MBP 16", or the LG 34" 5k2k (which is a downgrade in pixel density from my current 5k iMac, but maybe the extra real estate makes up for that?).

I like it a lot. My workmate has that 5K display on the iMac, which is great, but I do like the extra horizontal space a lot. At a certain point, I just don't see that pixel density. I don't push text as small as I could on what essentially is a 4K density on this 34" now. And with that extra space, I can have more stuff open at once and use fewer spaces. I can very comfortably have 3-4 open windows which go the full vertical length. So like a sublime text window or two, terminal, and a web browser. A different space has email, slack, calendar. Another has my R studio consoles. Then the macbook's screen to the side is activity monitor, messages, a pdf or sourcetree. I came from a Dell 27" 1440, and I feel like I'm much more efficient now. I'm sure the XDR is gorgeous, but its like 10x the cost of what I got my LG 34" for (I think it was $750 through our university, and with stand the XDR would be $6K). If I were you, I'd use that marginal 5K or so and YOLO your way to Hawaii instead.

 

[M3Jedi77]

I like it a lot. My workmate has that 5K display on the iMac, which is great, but I do like the extra horizontal space a lot. At a certain point, I just don't see that pixel density. I don't push text as small as I could on what essentially is a 4K density on this 34" now. And with that extra space, I can have more stuff open at once and use fewer spaces. I can very comfortably have 3-4 open windows which go the full vertical length. So like a sublime text window or two, terminal, and a web browser. A different space has email, slack, calendar. Another has my R studio consoles. Then the macbook's screen to the side is activity monitor, messages, a pdf or sourcetree. I came from a Dell 27" 1440, and I feel like I'm much more efficient now. I'm sure the XDR is gorgeous, but its like 10x the cost of what I got my LG 34" for (I think it was $750 through our university, and with stand the XDR would be $6K). If I were you, I'd use that marginal 5K or so and YOLO your way to Hawaii instead.

This is great advice! Thank you for the detailed review - will likely pick this up from B&H on sale right now.

 

[The Samurai]

: I actually spent two hours sitting in front of one in the store before purchasing, which I think is more than a reasonable amount of due diligence.

surely thats a double facepalm 🤦🏽‍♂️ given you bought the machine after doing ‘research’.

oh dear.

 

[impulse462]

You are entirely wrong: I actually spent two hours sitting in front of one in the store before purchasing, which I think is more than a reasonable amount of due diligence.

Almost all the bugbears I mentioned above, I discovered only after a few weeks actually using the machine on a daily basis. If you think the average user - or even a *power* user such as myself - is going to figure out all the above issues after even two or three times the amount of pre-purchase due diligence that I undertook, your expectations are entirely out of line with reality.

after spending 2 hours sitting in front of the computer you still didnt realize it had a webcam you didn't like it had the macbook pro logo? no wonder you made this thread

 

[Plutonius]

It always amazes me that people are surprised when a newly released product has some issues.

 

[NeroAugustus]

Don't take this as an attack or anything, genuine question: why do you (OP) and many others feel the need to create an entirely new thread to tell us you're returning your computer?

It's not like you're bringing anything to the conversation as most of your complaints are either known bugs, simply subjective things (that you honestly could really have known beforehand, you can't be surprised you miss USB-A if you have tons of USB A peripherals) or very obvious things (a thin and laptop being noisy during heavy work is not only obvious but kinda wanted, you need to cool things down a lot.)

So I don't really get it, I didn't create a thread to tell the world I got mine.

Good of you btw to return a laptop that clearly isn't for you, more people should do that.

 

[impulse462]

Don't take this as an attack or anything, genuine question: why do you (OP) and many others feel the need to create an entirely new thread to tell us you're returning your computer?

It's not like you're bringing anything to the conversation as most of your complaints are either known bugs or simply subjective things (that you honestly could really have known beforehand, you can't be surprised you miss USB-A if you have tons of USB A peripherals.) So I don't really get it, I didn't create a thread to tell the world I got mine.

Good of you btw to return a laptop that clearly isn't for you, more people should do that.

they have to justify it to themselves somehow. my friend bought the 16" decided it was too big for him and went back to the 13" without any fanfare. im more apt to believe he has nothing to justify because he doesnt repeatedly try to justify it in a defensive manner

 

[jerryk]

I am considering on returning mine because I think I made a silly purchase. I’m a student and it’s so much heavier than my previous 15” and it’s just too big for what I need. I want to get the 13” now, but unfortunately the biggest factor of me getting the 16” was because of the faulty butterfly keyboard. I wish Apple released the 13” redesigned keyboard alongside of the 16” so I would of never needed to go through this.

Apples history has been that the top end MBP is usually the one they upgrade first with the newest tech. And then they see what parts of that tech can moved down to the smaller system with weaker power and cooling system, but more portability.

 

[wallysb01]

I will be returning mine and going back to my late 2013 MBP 15" for now:

I'm sorry you don't like your machine, but I have a few notes on these comments:

• The response time on the panel is much worse on the MBP 16". I do see ghosting when scrolling text.
• The new scissor switch keyboard is better than the butterfly keyboard for sure, but even after three weeks I still can't get used to it. Not enough travel and too much tactile feedback.
• I really don't like the touch bar. It's distracting and I don't find it useful. I figured out how to turn it off with BetterTouchTool but I still get a lot of accidental touches when using the number keys. There's no way to change the brightness or turn it off completely in System Preferences. I need real function keys for development work. I prefer real physical buttons to adjust brightness and volume.
• [MOVED by me] No MagSafe, and it's awkward having this 1-inch USB-C cable sticking out the side constantly. No doubt one day I will bend the connector accidentally and have to shell out for a new power adapter.
• The annoying "MacBook Pro" logo beneath the screen. My late 2013 MBP 15" had no such vulgar branding.
• Sucky webcam.
• No Wifi 6.

These vary from preferences to non-issues. The response time is is plenty good given the refresh rate. The text scrolling thing is doesn't impact my machine and ghosting isn't a problem at all. Otherwise the TB is weird, I agree, but it is what it is at this point. Your only option is to live with an older or much lower power machine from Apple, a desktop or a windows machine. The MagSafe thing is another pro/con issue. You can now use a variety of plugs and cables to power your computer, it also provides video/data streams. The last things on the list there are just silliness. Pure and simple. The logo? Really? Wifi 6 isn't exactly the norm just yet, even for other very high end computers, like the ThinkPad P series, many still lack Wifi 6.

• The lack of USB-A ports is more of an issue than I realized. Most of my peripherals are USB-A, and searching for and fiddling with dongles every time I want to plug something in is getting tiresome.

Get a good docking solution. Its the way it is now and in someways it is better. I know its a pain at times, but again, how long are you going to deal with a machine from 2013 just so you can plug in a USB A device without using an adapter?

• The speakers are great on paper but I don't enjoy listening to them in practice. I use Boom3D to EQ them to my preferences (I cut all freqs below 80Hz by the max dB, 200-800Hz by 2dB, and boost at 1kHz by 6dB) but it's buggy and adds latency. The speakers are loud, but distorted. It seems like Apple is trying to squeeze more sound out of them than tiny speakers are capable of producing.

There might just be something wrong with your machine. These things you're doing aren't really meant to be done on a laptop. If you need to do them for a typical song to just sound normal, something isn't right. Between this and the display, maybe you just got a bad unit?

• The trackpad is great, but just too damn big. I constantly have issues where gestures don't work correctly because my palm or a finger of the other hand is resting on the pad, and palm rejection isn't working sufficiently well. When typing there's nowhere to rest my thumbs without touching the trackpad.

I was worried about this too, but you know what, its just not an issue. My left palm can be about half on the track pad and the three finger swipe up with my right hand works fine, so does regular scrolling. Its called palm rejection, Apple has figured this out better than anyone in the industry, that's why their track pad is so big. And it works. If it doesn't, maybe you got a bad unit.

• The performance improvement over my late 2013 is not very significant in practice. I measured Xcode and Android build times on both machines, and it's only ~20% faster. My desktop Hackintosh is 2x faster at the same tasks (and cost half the price).

Well yeah, a desktop is likely to be faster, but I am seriously suspecting your numbers here. Only 20% faster than a Haswell chip, but half the speed of a modern desktop....? Not likely. Speeds should be about 50% to 100%+ faster (single vs multicore) from current gen to Haswell. And the only way you're getting 2x faster speeds even on a current desktop is with very long running tasks and very high end processors. I've benchmarked my own workflows with the 2.4 i9 vs the 12 core in the 2013 Mac Pro, and its a dead heat.

• No upgradability and poor repairability. My 2013 MBP 15" has now needed to have every component replaced apart from the SSD, and it was expensive, e.g. a RAM replacement cost $1000 because the entire logic board had to be replaced while the actual DRAM board itself would have cost less than $100 to replace myself.

This has been an issue since the machine you currently have. Most other vendors are also doing this to a degree. You just can't get away from it now.

All in all, I'm quite disappointed, especially for the price. I paid ~$4K, but I can get an equivalently specced Windows laptop for ~$1600. It would make sense if I loved the laptop, but as you can see, I really don't. It just doesn't make sense to keep it.

What windows laptop did you get for $1600 that was "equivalently specced" as the $4K MacBook Pro? I smell BS all over this post of yours, but we're certain now. A $1600 laptop like that doesn't exist. But I'd love to be proved wrong.

 

[CloudsNeverDie]

I won't repeat what's been said so many times, only add that your speakers may not be working correctly.

That's an intelligent point and the first time I've heard it. It's certainly possible the speakers are malfunctioning on my device, I haven't compared them to other MBP 16s in the store or elsewhere.
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This made me chuckle. Literally every other macbook has had this. the 2012-2015 were the exceptions

It's too bad. As if the unique design aesthetic and gigantic Apple logo on the back were not already sufficient to remind everyone that it's a MacBook. I wonder what discount Apple factors into the price to compensate purchasers for the forced brand promotion.
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after spending 2 hours sitting in front of the computer you still didnt realize it had a webcam you didn't like it had the macbook pro logo? no wonder you made this thread

(a) I didn't make this thread. I am not the OP.

(b) I didn't try the webcam in the store. It never occurred to me Apple might put a bad webcam on a laptop in this day and age. As it turns out, the webcam is inferior to the one on my late 2013 MBP.

(c) Yes, I noticed the logo. I didn't realize how irritating it would be until I used it daily. I ended up covering it with black tape.

(d) What business is it of yours? This thread started as a poll about who was returning their MBP 16s, and for what reason. I have posted with my reasons. Your post is unnecessarily, and personally, insulting.

 

[LoganT]

I have a hard time believing there wasn’t a significant performance boost from your late 2013 15” to 2019 16”. I also had a late 2013 15.4” MBP and when I upgraded to a maxed out 16” my Cinema 4D render times for a 9000 frame animation with a lot of transparency and reflections went down to 19 hours when normally that would be over 36 hours. I’d run a geek bench score to see if your machine is running properly.