Rumored pro chip

[AgentMcGeek]

I didn’t say I’m expecting Apple to increase the overall TDP. I’m saying there’s a lot to be done already with what we have, since the new chips are so efficient.

I know the MBP philosophy is different than a gaming laptop. Still, I’m expecting the M chip on the 14’ to run in the range of 25-35W max TDP, with the same 60W power adapter.

For comparison, the M1 draws in the range of 20-25W in the MBP and 30-40W in the Mac Mini according to Anandtech.

 

[bobcomer]

With that said, power consumption can definitely have a direct relationship to heat generation. While laptop Thermal management has come along nicely, those x86 fans can still start rockin and rollin when the heat ups. IMHO, Intel absolutely should be working on increasing clock/benchmark while keeping a strong eye on power consumption (the same oower or much more ideally even less power). My guess is increasing speed by increasing power consumption is not going to go over well. Do they want to let Apple dunk on them regarding the per watt discussion?

I agree, heat can be a problem with more power. That's why I don't like the mobile i9 and wouldn't buy a laptop with it. But within reason, cooling systems on decent laptops do a pretty good job these days and while you may hear the fan, you don't get that much throttling. But then again, fan noise doesn't bother me either. I'm probably going to buy the 14" MBP when it comes out, but I'm REALLY hoping it has a good cooling system, rather that clocking the CPU lower all the time.

edit: My main Windows PC is a desktop i9 (10 core), so that's the kind of speed I'm used to and want...

Ball is in Intel’s court. Let’s see what they can do…

I'm actually pretty happy with Intel performance these days, even on laptops and micro desktops. I don't see near the throttling when things get warm as I do on my MBA.

 

[AgentMcGeek]

Intel did get better with the 11th gen refresh. You can get decent perf per watt on 13' form factors. But it is coming a couple years too late. Between Ryzen and M1, the competition has a head start. Maybe they can make a come back with the generalisation of the big.LITTLE system on Windows 11.

 

[leman]

Intel did get better with the 11th gen refresh. You can get decent perf per watt on 13' form factors. But it is coming a couple years too late. Between Ryzen and M1, the competition has a head start. Maybe they can make a come back with the generalisation of the big.LITTLE system on Windows 11.

Alder Lake is going to be a big test for Intel. If they underdeliver, it will be difficult for them to recover.

 

[Colstan]

Alder Lake is going to be a big test for Intel. If they underdeliver, it will be difficult for them to recover.

From the more reliable sources I have seen, the expectation is that Alder Lake will take the gaming crown from Zen 3, but not by a huge margin. These same sources said that Rocket Lake was going to bomb many months before release. Intel should have thrown it back into whatever lake or cove it came from. Regardless, perhaps the potential of Alder Lake is why AMD introduced the 3D stacked L3 gimmick, to have a stopgap answer to Intel later this year, even if it isn't a widespread product release and more of an "Extreme Edition" for people with more money than sense.

...which does make me think, how much of this is academic to us folks at MacRumors? I pay attention to the PC guys out of curiosity and out of habit from my PC building days. My criteria for a computer purchase: does it run macOS? If not, then no purchase. In my mind, Apple Silicon and the M-series are a bonus, at this point. A very substantial bonus, at that.

 

[AgentMcGeek]

By the time Alder Lake comes, we’ll have Zen 3+ with 3D cache and then Zen 4. Doesn’t matter how it compares to Zen 3.

 

[cmaier]

By the time Alder Lake comes, we’ll have Zen 3+ with 3D cache and then Zen 4. Doesn’t matter how it compares to Zen 3.

Yeah, but AMD used to have an internal website called the Cliff-o-meter which would show how close I was to getting fired, so... I'm just sayin'

 

[joptimus]

Why is the M1 lauded often for handling things well that should run on chips a couple generations older? I find it ridiculous to say it moves windows smoothly or handles a 4/5K external display fine (read in another thread in the OP).

I don't know jack about software and programming, so please correct me - but we have had integrated graphics for like 10-15 years running UIs well, have we not? Some animated window here, some transparency effect there - is that really a "use case"?
I'm specifically not talking about image/video editing/rendering here. Honestly don't know why other chips struggle with multi monitor setups apparently for simple "using" a computer.

 

[CWallace]

Why is the M1 lauded often for handling things well that should run on chips a couple generations older? I find it ridiculous to say it moves windows smoothly or handles a 4/5K external display fine (read in another thread in the OP).

I seem to recall a fair number of complaints that the iGPUs in the Intel models have had issues driving high-resolution monitors like the LG UltraFine 4K and 5K in a smooth manner. Even the lower-end AMD dGPUs were said to struggle at times driving those monitors or the integrated displays on the iMac 4K and 5K. So the M1 actually not having any issues doing this is in many ways a real improvement.

 

[bobcomer]

I seem to recall a fair number of complaints that the iGPUs in the Intel models have had issues driving high-resolution monitors like the LG UltraFine 4K and 5K in a smooth manner. Even the lower-end AMD dGPUs were said to struggle at times driving those monitors or the integrated displays on the iMac 4K and 5K. So the M1 actually not having any issues doing this is in many ways a real improvement.

That's in the past, it's not a problem anymore. All of them I've purchased can drive at least 2 4K monitors these days.

 

[Falhófnir]

I seem to recall a fair number of complaints that the iGPUs in the Intel models have had issues driving high-resolution monitors like the LG UltraFine 4K and 5K in a smooth manner. Even the lower-end AMD dGPUs were said to struggle at times driving those monitors or the integrated displays on the iMac 4K and 5K. So the M1 actually not having any issues doing this is in many ways a real improvement.

When they dropped back from Iris Pro to HD integrated graphics for the 15” in 2016, didn’t it struggle to smoothly show the window animations? At a guess I’d say more to do with the sudden spike in performance demand rather than actually not being able to render, but quite a poor show either way.

 

[thedocbwarren]

Threadripper's performance is disappointing. For chess you need dual Fujitsu A64FX.

I hear IBM's Sierra is the way to go for good chess ability.

 

[CWallace]

I hear IBM's Sierra is the way to go for good chess ability.

Should give Watson a nice boost.

 

[One2Grift]

I'm actually pretty happy with Intel performance these days, even on laptops and micro desktops. I don't see near the throttling when things get warm as I do on my MBA.

Unfortunately for Intel there’s not quite enough of you right now. AMD is at minimum modestly eating their lunch from a business aspect. Apple’s m1 was another smack to them.
That doesn’t mean Intel is going out of business (they are certainly not) or next week the business climate changes. But Intel is in an somewhat odd place, for them, dealing with a greater uncertainty than they’ve been used to.

To your other points: yes desktop power is what we all want…in a great, portable form factor that doesn’t get hot, uses power efficiently and is competitively priced. Still waiting…
Intel isn’t sitting still, no doubt, on all items including watt/performance. But M1 has that argument right now, period.

 

[thedocbwarren]

Should give Watson a nice boost.

And if Sierra isn't enough you could always get a nice cheap Summit to help get those chess pieces moving!

 

[bobcomer]

nfortunately for Intel there’s not quite enough of you right now.

Definitely disagree.

AMD is at minimum modestly eating their lunch from a business aspect.

Have you looked at market share?

To your other points: yes desktop power is what we all want…in a great, portable form factor that doesn’t get hot, uses power efficiently and is competitively priced. Still waiting…

The last part is what you want, not what I want.

 

[One2Grift]

Definitely disagree.

Have you looked at market share?

Intel has been, in the past, an outstanding performer. The market share they achieved/held backs that up. And Anyone liking Intel products isnt a poor reflection on them, IMHO. However, it’s not disputable that Intel is now lagging AMD as well as most of its industry rivals. A tech company with a forward PE of 13.5 while AMD has a FPE of above 30 (Nvidia close to 40, Marvel 34, Analog 25). That is a stark difference on within the same specific industry that speaks loudly to Intel’s current slump. And While PE isn’t an absolute (if it was we would all be rich investing based on PE/FPE), PE is the barometer for most recent and closest expected performance. Latest quarterly sales comparison: AMD +93%, Intel -1%.
This doesn’t mean Intel won’t turn it around quickly (that’s always an unknown) but it does mean right now AMD has indisputably bested Intel by quite a margin.

To the other point about desktop power in a portable, cool and efficient form factor? My mistake, that’s what I/some people want, it’s not what some others/you want.

 

[Fomalhaut]

To the other point about desktop power in a portable, cool and efficient form factor? My mistake, that’s what I/some people want, it’s not what some others/you want.

A powerful, cool & efficient portable computing solution is certainly what a lot of people want - I would venture to say by a significant majority.

I don't believe Apple wants to compete in the "desktop replacement" market for laptops. These are essentially compromise machines that should really be desktops or workstations, for people who need some portability while hopefully having enough battery life to last for a train ride or a meeting. They have a place for people who need to move around, but only want to have one machine, and need it to be more powerful that a typical laptop computer. If funds allow, you'd be better off having access to a suitable desktop machine in each location, and avoid having to carry a huge and heavy portable.

I used to travel with a MacBook Pro and a maxed-out Mac mini, or sometimes just the Mini. You could always find a screen and a keyboard in a customer office, and at the time, the Mini was considerably more powerful than the MacBook Pro.

These days if I needed to do some heavy lifting with a client-server application, I would just run the server in the cloud and use a small laptop as a client. This won't work for applications that need lots of local compute capacity or fast storage of course, but it covers a lot of use cases.

 

[Kung gu]

A powerful, cool & efficient portable computing solution is certainly what a lot of people want - I would venture to say by a significant majority.

I don't believe Apple wants to compete in the "desktop replacement" market for laptops. These are essentially compromise machines that should really be desktops or workstations, for people who need some portability while hopefully having enough battery life to last for a train ride or a meeting. They have a place for people who need to move around, but only want to have one machine, and need it to be more powerful that a typical laptop computer. If funds allow, you'd be better off having access to a suitable desktop machine in each location, and avoid having to carry a huge and heavy portable.

I used to travel with a MacBook Pro and a maxed-out Mac mini, or sometimes just the Mini. You could always find a screen and a keyboard in a customer office, and at the time, the Mini was considerably more powerful than the MacBook Pro.

These days if I needed to do some heavy lifting with a client-server application, I would just run the server in the cloud and use a small laptop as a client. This won't work for applications that need lots of local compute capacity or fast storage of course, but it covers a lot of use cases.

I think the M1X MacBook Pro will be powerhouses. There were rumours that the MacBook Pro will Mac mini. So M1X should come in both Macs.

Thats a very easy choice for me, I will just buy the MBP because its portable and as powerful as a Mac mini.

 

[Appletoni]

Did you guys see these allegedly leaked slides from Luke Miani? What do we think?

View attachment 1792483
View attachment 1792484
If production is Q2, I don’t see how we can get a summer launch. However this is in contradiction with other rumours saying production had started in April. Wait & see I guess.

PS: EFI refers to the number of low power cores out of the core total (CPU). Don’t addition CPU and EFI.

Cook said: The iPad Pro will always get the strongest chip.
What does this mean?

 

[One2Grift]

These days if I needed to do some heavy lifting with a client-server application, I would just run the server in the cloud and use a small laptop as a client. This won't work for applications that need lots of local compute capacity or fast storage of course, but it covers a lot of use cases.

That’s a good point regarding the cloud and how it can lower the client(power to portability) need. Myself, it’s love-hate relationship with running a server app on the cloud(work for sure with cloud O365). cloud’s efficiency in that regard is undeniable (I still want the desktop power in cool efficient laptop form ?)

But for my home setup, with great buying patience I was able to pick up a couple of cheap used lower end Dells. One uses the freebie of VMware (single socket limitation), second is an Ebay 2016 license (Hyper-v, my own local DNS, DC, CA). I’m stubbornly old school — I like having the hardware on prem for the learning and general hobby. But in my home brew I use port forwarding (my ISP doesn’t change the DHCP reservation much) for certain server accesses. So I guess I do love the cloud, sorta

 

[Gudi]

If true, then the efficiency cores must be much more powerful this time around, I’d think. Maybe double-wide issue or something.

Stop thinking. There’s absolutely no reason for any change in the efficiency cores. These pro chips are simply more tuned for performance and less for efficiency.

 

[AgentMcGeek]

Another rumour for an August launch. Not sure they how they will justify an M1X with a one year old core architecture.

 

[Falhófnir]

Another rumour for an August launch. Not sure they how they will justify an M1X with a one year old core architecture.

They could probably squeeze a bit more single core performance out by upping clock speeds a bit, that will take much of the sting out of when the A15/M2 arrive.

 

[AgentMcGeek]

Here it is FYI:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1404900734450155525