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BlueGoldAce

macrumors 68000
Oct 11, 2011
1,951
1,455
I don't disagree...$349 and $449 are expensive, but out of line with recent revealed android watches, outside of the asus one priced at $199.

Still markedly cheaper than the Apple Watch, besides the sport.
 

The Game 161

macrumors Nehalem
Dec 15, 2010
30,991
20,174
UK
Ouch...not doing themselves any favors with that pricing. And I'm not saying it's not worth it, just giving a pretty big hurdle to attract customers away from other smart watches.
Depends.


If you have a Samsung phone people will buy it if they want a watch. Just like I will be folking out alot for the SS apple watch.
 

BlueGoldAce

macrumors 68000
Oct 11, 2011
1,951
1,455
Depends.


If you have a Samsung phone people will buy it if they want a watch. Just like I will be folking out alot for the SS apple watch.
Or Android phone if the functionality isn't hampered. As announced, it works with other android phones... And ios is a possibility, though it would be hampered just like across wear on ios.
 

AppleRobert

macrumors 603
Nov 12, 2012
5,729
1,133
As far as pricing, Samsung seems to give some help with trade in for their new releases. If I could get something decent for trade with the Moto 360 1st gen I have I might bite, nonetheless I will check it out when BB puts it on display. Developer support might be influenced with it being opened up to all android.

As far as the Apple Watch, I checked it out a few times but remain not interested.
 

LIVEFRMNYC

macrumors G3
Oct 27, 2009
8,878
10,987
I knew it would be at least $300. Hate that they went slightly over that. The price will be cut soon enough anyways just like previous Gears, or a retailer will have a sale on it during the holiday months.
 

mi7chy

macrumors G4
Oct 24, 2014
10,626
11,298
Lower is better but pricing is more competitive and you get better quality and design than stainless steel Apple watch at $549-599.
 

Fernandez21

macrumors 601
Jun 16, 2010
4,840
3,183
My only probably with this device is the software updates, If I'm ever going to buy a watch I want it for at least 2 years in terms of software updates. (Not just patches but actual feature updates)

Have Samsung shown that they do this to there touch Wizz watches? They struggle to do it to there flag ship phones. ( and I have the note 5!).
This. Very curious to see if they keep supporting the older gears and to what extent. With wear and apple you at least know your going to be getting software support for at least years.
 

tbayrgs

macrumors 604
Jul 5, 2009
7,467
5,097
Depends.


If you have a Samsung phone people will buy it if they want a watch. Just like I will be folking out alot for the SS apple watch.

I disagree a bit. Apple customers are less price averse than Samsung customers. Of course Samsung customers aren't in the market for an Apple Watch so that price comparison is a bit irrelevant. I just see fewer Apple customers put off by price than Samsung customers. While first impressions show the Gear S2 to be potentially one heck of a device, that's still a fairly steep price of entry, especially when there are cheaper Android Wear alternatives.

Samsung has been pricing their flagships in the same price range (if not slightly more) as iPhones and they'be been underselling vs. expectations, even though they are arguably considered to be best overall smartphones in the market, and definitely the best Samsung phones ever made. I worry Samsung will see the same results with a Gear S2 that's priced a bit too high.
 

spinedoc77

macrumors G4
Jun 11, 2009
11,488
5,413
I disagree a bit. Apple customers are less price averse than Samsung customers. Of course Samsung customers aren't in the market for an Apple Watch so that price comparison is a bit irrelevant. I just see fewer Apple customers put off by price than Samsung customers. While first impressions show the Gear S2 to be potentially one heck of a device, that's still a fairly steep price of entry, especially when there are cheaper Android Wear alternatives.

Samsung has been pricing their flagships in the same price range (if not slightly more) as iPhones and they'be been underselling vs. expectations, even though they are arguably considered to be best overall smartphones in the market, and definitely the best Samsung phones ever made. I worry Samsung will see the same results with a Gear S2 that's priced a bit too high.

Just to add to that, Samsung's value plunges very quickly, making it that less valuable and demonstrates what a bad decision their high prices are. Heck it's been what 2 or so weeks since the Note 5 and S6 edge + have been released, and you can already get them $200+ off on Swappa in mint or resale condition. Samsung needs to take the rose colored glasses off and price their products accordingly with consumer demand, or lack of it.
 

BlueGoldAce

macrumors 68000
Oct 11, 2011
1,951
1,455
Just to add to that, Samsung's value plunges very quickly, making it that less valuable and demonstrates what a bad decision their high prices are. Heck it's been what 2 or so weeks since the Note 5 and S6 edge + have been released, and you can already get them $200+ off on Swappa in mint or resale condition. Samsung needs to take the rose colored glasses off and price their products accordingly with consumer demand, or lack of it.
Only the iPhone is immune to this. This has everything to do with competition in the Android world (which Apple doesn't have to worry about). You have to sale your used gadget for a big enough discount, even if it's unopened, in order to get a buyer. In used Android market, not only do you have to compete with fellow note 5 sellers, but other android phones as well. Competition drives prices in favor of the consumer. This applies to phones, cars, etc. If Samsung started with a lower price, the used prices would be lower too. You simply can't compare Android to Apple, and the status of the Android market currently benefits the consumer, while the opposite is true of the ios market. Now I agree that samsun prices, as well as Apple, are too high; but at least Samsung has bleeding edge hardware to back it up.

The same goes for pc market. The macbook pro (I own a recent model) holds is value mich better than pcs. This is due, again, to the nature of the market. A used xps 13, recent model with the inifty screen (beloved by reviewers, many regard it above the 13 retina) is cheaper than a macbook used. That doesn't mean the xps 13 (which I don't own) isn't possibly the best portable laptop you can buy. I own a brand new 13 inch retina, but I can see what the xps 13 has going for it, and where it betters the retina.
 
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tbayrgs

macrumors 604
Jul 5, 2009
7,467
5,097
Only the iPhone is immune to this. This has everything to do with competition in the Android world (which Apple doesn't have to worry about). You have to sale your used gadget for a big enough discount, even if it's unopened, in order to get a buyer. In used Android market, not only do you have to compete with fellow note 5 sellers, but other android phones as well. Competition drives prices in favor of the consumer. This applies to phones, cars, etc. If Samsung started with a lower price, the used prices would be lower too. You simply can't compare Android to Apple, and the status of the Android market currently benefits the consumer, while the opposite is true of the ios market. Now I agree that samsun prices, as well as Apple, are too high; but at least Samsung has bleeding edge hardware to back it up.

The same goes for pc market. The macbook pro (I own a recent model) holds is value mich better than pcs. This is due, again, to the nature of the market. A used xps 13, recent model with the inifty screen (beloved by reviewers, many regard it above the 13 retina) is cheaper than a macbook used. That doesn't mean the xps 13 (which I don't own) isn't possibly the best portable laptop you can buy. I own a brand new 13 inch retina, but I can see what the xps 13 has going for it, and where it betters the retina.

Agree with everything you're saying, but the problem is people's perception and they don't see Samsung devices in the same class as Apple, regardless of whether they actually have better hardware. Samsung wants to replicate Apple's margins but they just can't play that game. Trying to out-spec everyone is going to blow up in their face sooner than later--you said it yourself I believe in another discussion we were having in another thread--Android OEMs are racing to the bottom. Phones from Motorola, OnePlus, Alcatel, Asus, and others are priced significantly less yet offer a pretty damn good user experience, at least in many people's eye. It's going to be harder and harder for Samsung to continue to price their devices so high because most people just don't see the premium priced devices offering enough extra value.
 
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BlueGoldAce

macrumors 68000
Oct 11, 2011
1,951
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Agree with everything you're saying, but the problem is people's perception and they don't see Samsung devices in the same class as Apple, regardless of whether they actually have better hardware. Samsung wants to replicate Apple's margins but they just can't play that game. Trying to out-spec everyone is going to blow up in their face sooner than later--you said it yourself I believe in another discussion we were having in another thread--Android OEMs are racing to the bottom--devices from Motorola, OnePlus, Alcatel, Asus, and others are prices significantly less yet offer a pretty damn good user experience, at least in many peoples eye. It's going to be harder and harder for Samsung to continue to price their devices so high because most people just don't see the premium priced devices offering enough extra value.
And I agree with everything you just said, and yes, you accurately remmeber what I said.

Which I still firmly believe. A year or two from now, what will Samsung be able to offer that cheaper phones can't? One plus two, moto, etc are inching closer and closer. The only thing that makes the note 5 better than the moto x style is camera, screen, and design. Is that worth $350, almost the price of two motos? No, it is not. I have and absolutely love my note 5, but I can see the trend. It's great for the consumer.

Apple is immune to this for now, but it will eventually have to adapt, thought later than Samsung will have to.

Apple has a great advantage with marketing. To a much lesser extent, so did Honda (rightly so) over the last decade. That edge is fading, and it will for Apple too. Go look at USA today's article. A website that always praises Apple, is already critidicing the new iPhone before it is announced.

The gear s2 isn't out pricing similar Android wear, though I believe all smart watched are over priced.
 
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tbayrgs

macrumors 604
Jul 5, 2009
7,467
5,097
And I agree with everything you just said, and yes, you accurately remmeber what I said.

Which I still firmly believe. A year or two from now, what will Samsung be able to offer that cheaper phones can't? One plus two, moto, etc are inching closer and closer. The only thing that makes the note 5 better than the moto x style is camera, screen, and design. Is that worth $350, almost the price of two motos? No, it is not. I have and absolutely love my note 5, but I can see the trend. It's great for the consumer.

Apple is immune to this for now, but it will eventually have to adapt, thought later than Samsung will have to.

Apple has a great advantage with marketing. To a much lesser extent, so did Honda (rightly so) over the last decade. That edge is fading, and it will for Apple too. Go look at USA today's article. A website that always praises Apple, is already critidicing the new iPhone before it is announced.

The gear s2 isn't out pricing similar Android wear, though I believe all smart watched are over priced.

I hope Apple feels some of that pricing pressure as well. I love my Apple gear but it's damn expensive. Apple gets away with their prices/margins because people are still willing to pay for it (guess I'm not helping that cause :oops:) and it's going to take a hefty shove from the market to change that...one I'd certainly welcome. The king needs to be knocked off their pedestal from time to time.
 
Last edited:

spriter

macrumors 65816
May 13, 2004
1,460
586
Which I still firmly believe. A year or two from now, what will Samsung be able to offer that cheaper phones can't? One plus two, moto, etc are inching closer and closer. The only thing that makes the note 5 better than the moto x style is camera, screen, and design. Is that worth $350, almost the price of two motos? No, it is not. I have and absolutely love my note 5, but I can see the trend. It's great for the consumer. .

I think the Note has a bit more than that over the Style (hint: the 7420, Fingerprint scanner, S-Pen, OIS, health sensors, Samsung Pay, etc).

These all cost money. As does the marketing. And R&D. But as with anything it's diminishing returns for significant spend once you start adding in the features that Samsung has - not everyone wants, needs, nor (most likely) uses all of them so it's a trade off.

I guess the Moto approach is to keep things affordable whilst providing the common features of the top spec models which will likely work well. But there are people, and I'm one, who see that list of differences and are very interested.

I don't really consider OnePlus as the same value as Moto aside from the actual product. The augmentation, or additional features, of which after sales service is a huge buying factor, just doesn't exist with OnePlus. Heck, they can't even deliver a phone within 3 weeks from orders being placed at present.

So yeah, Samsung are expensive. But they can probably justify it better than you might think. Whether people pay up is another matter. Resale value is a good point made in this and I agree they drop quicker than Apple. Then again, Apple tech has always held value better than most in my near 20 years of buying it.

And back to the S2: I like it and the pricing seems not too steep. I'm more concerned about Tizen updates.
 

BlueGoldAce

macrumors 68000
Oct 11, 2011
1,951
1,455
I think the Note has a bit more than that over the Style (hint: the 7420, Fingerprint scanner, S-Pen, OIS, health sensors, Samsung Pay, etc).

These all cost money. As does the marketing. And R&D. But as with anything it's diminishing returns for significant spend once you start adding in the features that Samsung has - not everyone wants, needs, nor (most likely) uses all of them so it's a trade off.

I guess the Moto approach is to keep things affordable whilst providing the common features of the top spec models which will likely work well. But there are people, and I'm one, who see that list of differences and are very interested.

I don't really consider OnePlus as the same value as Moto aside from the actual product. The augmentation, or additional features, of which after sales service is a huge buying factor, just doesn't exist with OnePlus. Heck, they can't even deliver a phone within 3 weeks from orders being placed at present.

So yeah, Samsung are expensive. But they can probably justify it better than you might think. Whether people pay up is another matter. Resale value is a good point made in this and I agree they drop quicker than Apple. Then again, Apple tech has always held value better than most in my near 20 years of buying it.

And back to the S2: I like it and the pricing seems not too steep. I'm more concerned about Tizen updates.
I agree completely. It is not that Samsung can't justify it. If any company can justify it, it is Samsung. When you buy the note 5, you don't feel like you got a hamstriged model, all for the sake of adding a gig of ram in next year's model. Samsung makes the best hardware, and their software is catching up.

But, my point is this: Jane and John Doe want new phones. They go to the carrier store sometime in the near future, when all contracts are gone and its all EIPs. Let's assume they are financially responsible, but not educstied on the nuances of smart phone tech. They look at the phones available (pretend that phones like the moto x style at available as a monthly payment plan, and their price isn't inflated at the carrier store). They see moto, Samsung, and Apple. Apple and Samsung have the coolest.displays and great looking devices, but that 30-45 dollars a month seems steep. The moto has this neat looking device, that you can customize, for half the price. They talk to the rep, who says "this and that may not be as good, but it'd a great phone, and you won't notice". John and Jane then leave with new motos, saving themselves money each month. Now we know that John and Jane are missing out on the Apple simplicity (less of a factor, stock Android is simple), or on the bleeding edge tech on the Samsung devices. But they don't know that, they don't care, they just want a phone for texting, Facebook, Instagram, etc. They then go on to enjoy their cheaper phones immensely, and repeat the cycle in two years.

The above scenario is likely to happen with younger couples that don't have a predisposition yet. But this won't happen anytime soon, until carriers start carrying these phones.

These cheaper phones are cheaper fornw reason. They run off a older, or cheaper tech. Years ago this would of meant a poor phone. But today, cell phone tech has surpassed the needs of the average consumer, and as such cheaper phones with good experiences now exist.

I personally think the note 5 is worth every penny, this phone is that good. It's so good, I won't be purchasing the next iPhone (unless they announce something unexpected, like Jedi powers, and then it would still need to be better than this phone for me to give it up.) I think the gear s2 will be worth the price as well.

I wish Samsung new tab s2 had the current exynos chip, as they would then be worth the price. But they have last gen tech, and thus the price seems a little high.

That said, I think the note 5 is worth its price. I think the gear s2 will be as well. Thee
 

Technarchy

macrumors 604
Original poster
May 21, 2012
6,753
4,927
Just to add to that, Samsung's value plunges very quickly, making it that less valuable and demonstrates what a bad decision their high prices are. Heck it's been what 2 or so weeks since the Note 5 and S6 edge + have been released, and you can already get them $200+ off on Swappa in mint or resale condition. Samsung needs to take the rose colored glasses off and price their products accordingly with consumer demand, or lack of it.

Samsung should drop their prices in one sentence, but you can get high end Samsung devices on Swappa for $200 off...

Maybe you should get a Samsung device for cheap off Swappa then. Problem solved.

And considering Samsung is number 1 in the world, there is demand somewhere.
 

spriter

macrumors 65816
May 13, 2004
1,460
586
I agree completely. It is not that Samsung can't justify it. If any company can justify it, it is Samsung. When you buy the note 5, you don't feel like you got a hamstriged model, all for the sake of adding a gig of ram in next year's model. Samsung makes the best hardware, and their software is catching up.

But, my point is this: Jane and John Doe want new phones. They go to the carrier store sometime in the near future, when all contracts are gone and its all EIPs. Let's assume they are financially responsible, but not educstied on the nuances of smart phone tech. They look at the phones available (pretend that phones like the moto x style at available as a monthly payment plan, and their price isn't inflated at the carrier store). They see moto, Samsung, and Apple. Apple and Samsung have the coolest.displays and great looking devices, but that 30-45 dollars a month seems steep. The moto has this neat looking device, that you can customize, for half the price. They talk to the rep, who says "this and that may not be as good, but it'd a great phone, and you won't notice". John and Jane then leave with new motos, saving themselves money each month. Now we know that John and Jane are missing out on the Apple simplicity (less of a factor, stock Android is simple), or on the bleeding edge tech on the Samsung devices. But they don't know that, they don't care, they just want a phone for texting, Facebook, Instagram, etc. They then go on to enjoy their cheaper phones immensely, and repeat the cycle in two years.

The above scenario is likely to happen with younger couples that don't have a predisposition yet. But this won't happen anytime soon, until carriers start carrying these phones.

These cheaper phones are cheaper fornw reason. They run off a older, or cheaper tech. Years ago this would of meant a poor phone. But today, cell phone tech has surpassed the needs of the average consumer, and as such cheaper phones with good experiences now exist.

I personally think the note 5 is worth every penny, this phone is that good. It's so good, I won't be purchasing the next iPhone (unless they announce something unexpected, like Jedi powers, and then it would still need to be better than this phone for me to give it up.) I think the gear s2 will be worth the price as well.

I wish Samsung new tab s2 had the current exynos chip, as they would then be worth the price. But they have last gen tech, and thus the price seems a little high.

That said, I think the note 5 is worth its price. I think the gear s2 will be as well. Thee
Yep agree with the demographic that Moto are aiming at - people looking for a good all-rounder that gets the job done without costing the earth.

I suspect Samsung are targeting younger, more style conscious people with a bit more disposable income... Pretty clear when they dropped removable batteries and SD cards in favour of design. OnePlus on the other hand are going after tech enthusiasts at low price.

Despite owning a OnePlus 2, which does many things well and is more than good enough, I've just gone ahead and ordered the Note 5 as I feel it has some additional features that I'll use. Is it worth double the price? It is to me. Above that and eventually the value fades, just like for an average consumer there's no real value in jumping from a Style to a Note or whatever.
 

spinedoc77

macrumors G4
Jun 11, 2009
11,488
5,413
Samsung should drop their prices in one sentence, but you can get high end Samsung devices on Swappa for $200 off...

Maybe you should get a Samsung device for cheap off Swappa then. Problem solved.

And considering Samsung is number 1 in the world, there is demand somewhere.

Yeah I usually buy my Samsung stuff on swappa. Heck the Note 5 and s6 edge + are $200 or more off, and it's only been a couple of weeks. But I'm not buying anymore Samsung stuff anyhow so it's not my problem anyway.

Samsung is number 1 in smartwatch sales? I don't keep up with numbers and sales so I'm genuinely curious.
 

BlueGoldAce

macrumors 68000
Oct 11, 2011
1,951
1,455
200 off?.yesterday I looked there was one seller selling the note 5 32 gb for 615 or so...not quiet 200 or more.

The rest of sellers are still closer to retail.
 

tbayrgs

macrumors 604
Jul 5, 2009
7,467
5,097
200 off?.yesterday I looked there was one seller selling the note 5 32 gb for 615 or so...not quiet 200 or more.

The rest of sellers are still closer to retail.

There are AT&T models, brand new, selling for $570-590 now. Considering full retail + sales tax would set me back $790 here in Florida, he's not wrong. Of course, I'm sure that difference fluctuates between carriers and it's obviously less of a difference in states without sales tax. Regardless, still a pretty big drop in just a couple weeks. Almost was enough to convince me to pick one up. :p
 

BlueGoldAce

macrumors 68000
Oct 11, 2011
1,951
1,455
There are AT&T models, brand new, selling for $570-590 now. Considering full retail + sales tax would set me back $790 here in Florida, he's not wrong. Of course, I'm sure that difference fluctuates between carriers and it's obviously less of a difference in states without sales tax. Regardless, still a pretty big drop in just a couple weeks.
Yep, you're right.

But again, I'll reference one of my previous post....android and iOS exist in different worlds. Competing within android brings prices down, and it's great for the consumer.

I guess I don't worry too much about the resale of a device, 3 weeks after it is released, unless I don't plan on keeping said device for longer than that. Of course, if that is the case, I don't buy it, because it's not worth it if I already see myself selling it.
 

tbayrgs

macrumors 604
Jul 5, 2009
7,467
5,097
Yep, you're right.

But again, I'll reference one of my previous post....android and iOS exist in different worlds. Competing within android brings prices down, and it's great for the consumer.

I guess I don't worry too much about the resale of a device, 3 weeks after it is released, unless I don't plan on keeping said device for longer than that. Of course, if that is the case, I don't buy it, because it's not worth it if I already see myself selling it.

Again, completely agree. I think it's a precursor to future problems for Samsung though. It's going to be real difficult for them to try to keep pricing their top level devices like this if the Android market pricing continues its pretty dramatic trend down.
 

BlueGoldAce

macrumors 68000
Oct 11, 2011
1,951
1,455
Again, completely agree. I think it's a precursor to future problems for Samsung though. It's going to be real difficult for them to try to keep pricing their top level devices like this if the Android market pricing continues its pretty dramatic trend down.
Yep, I agree. This problem will eventually catch up with Apple; but Apple will enjoy immunity from this for a longer time.
 
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