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Samsung to Join OLED MacBook Push in 2027
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Well, modern OLEDs are still susceptible to image retention and sometimes burn-in when used in production environments, esp. when there are static components on screen like menus etc.… precisely how MacBook Pros are used. Even if you don’t get true burn-in, temporary image retention is still pretty damn annoying.
I’ve seen image retention BTW on my modern LG TV and because of that I’ve become more meticulous about how the TV is treated. Specifically, I don’t let my family members treat it like you can treat an LCD. That has mitigated the image retention substantially but I would never accept that in a well-lit office based computing environment for my main work machines. Or I should say, I would never accept that in an Apple product at Apple prices.
The dual-stack design Apple supposedly will be using will increase potential brightness, but arguably more importantly, at normal brightness levels it will dramatically increase resistance to image retention and burn-in.
These screens already exist in the wild but are extremely uncommon, currently in niche applications. AFAIK, essentially none of the OLED tablets and laptops out there use true dual-stack designs, or if they do exist, they are extremely rare. Because they of this, there has been no high volume production of these screens. What Apple has been doing is signing up multiple manufacturers to produce these in high volume. It seems the iPad Pros will serve as the testing ground and once the volumes have ramped up and the kinks have been worked out, they’ll add the MacBook Pros too.
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Fair comments. I too would be a tiny bit nervous about using one in a heavy computing environment all day every day. An option to choose a display based on usage type would be nice. Dell offers this with their XPS line if I’m not mistaken.
No, what you're doing is justifying an expensive purchase by reaching REALLY hard to make yourself feel better. It's part of that Apple use experience you fight for.
Regardless; every single laptop Apple offers should be OLED; they're already overpriced and more so without OLED. Have a nice day.
It's amazing that you have such an incredible insight into my intentions and perspective. It's almost magical!
Sure! Apple would love burn in as customers will keep buying. That is part of the game.
I would like to keep my machines for more than three years.
I'm no expert but my understanding is that the OLED in laptops and AMOLED in phones are different in manufacturing capability. AMOLED (or equivalents) are hard to manufacture for large displays—hence why phones do but laptops and TVs don't use them—they can only use QD-OLED, WOLED, or regular OLED.
And the type of content, and viewing habits, are different on a laptop. For Apple, OLED needs to be at least 600 nits SDR, not be at risk of any burn-in, and not require any Automated Brightness Limiting. I'm guessing Apple wouldn't want to use pixel shifting. I'm also guessing Apple will be promoting its HDR capabilities so it will likely need to match 1000 nits sustained full-screen and 1600 nits peak.
Apple doesn't manufacture OLED, so why be mad at Apple or Apple fans just because Apple has high-standards for what will replace the current mini LED displays? I don't think anybody wants to spend $2K or $3K or $4K and have to limit their screen-on time, or have to take it in for a screen replacement because the menu bar image is permanently burned in.
And the type of content, and viewing habits, are different on a laptop. For Apple, OLED needs to be at least 600 nits SDR, not be at risk of any burn-in, and not require any Automated Brightness Limiting. I'm guessing Apple wouldn't want to use pixel shifting. I'm also guessing Apple will be promoting its HDR capabilities so it will likely need to match 1000 nits sustained full-screen and 1600 nits peak.
Apple doesn't manufacture OLED, so why be mad at Apple or Apple fans just because Apple has high-standards for what will replace the current mini LED displays? I don't think anybody wants to spend $2K or $3K or $4K and have to limit their screen-on time, or have to take it in for a screen replacement because the menu bar image is permanently burned in.
I agree with most of what you said, but why do you think Apple wouldn't use pixel shifting? I would have guessed that pixel shifting would actually be part of their design. I'm no engineer though.
I don't have a strong argument against using it, but my weak understanding is that pixel shifting is undetectable for photography and video—hence it works on TVs—but may be detectable for designers and pixel peepers doing static image work. So maybe I'm way off but I'm just guessing Apple would rather not use it if double-stacked OLED was so good, it's no longer required. It's maybe a dumb example for me to bring up at this time. I think Automatic Brightness Limiting is a better example of what Apple would definitely not want to have to use. And they don't want to compromise on brightness or battery life, and with the new more energy efficient blue diode supposedly being put into production starting this year, a lot of these burn-in mitigation tricks will be a thing of the past.
On one hand, it doesn't seem comparable because the butterfly mechanism would fail with no rhyme or reason—it would just fail. Burn-in is more predictable.
On the other hand, its probable that a few years after Gen 1 of OLED MacBook Pro, there will be a grouping of failures that gain attention and cause Apple to issue a repair program. But our tolerance for a burned-in image (that may not even be easy to see except for in the right conditions)... will be higher than a broken keyboard that double-taps the same letter or doesn't at all. Being in the middle of a project, and burn-in happens, is a 3 on the annoying scale, but a malfunctioning keyboard? Thats a 7 at least if its a common letter!
I guess it depends on how obvious it is with fine editing work. On a TV, I've never actually seen an actual pixel shift when it happens, even though I've had the feature turned on for the last 6 years. Presumably if they did implement it, they would manufacture the screen several pixels wider and taller than the actual screen resolution, paired with a jet black bezel. Since OLED black is true black, non-displayed (black) pixels reserved for pixel shifting would blend in seamlessly with the bezel. However, it would also depend on the number of pixels required for sufficient pixel shifting, and also the shape of the pixels. I'm guessing square pixels would be easier to pixel shift invisibly, but I'm also guessing that such a panel would not have true square pixels, so perhaps you're right.
OTOH, I have definitely seen ABL many times, and that would absolutely suck on a computer monitor.
All valid points being discussed, but I'm still not persuaded that Apple is dragging its heels on OLED for any genuine reason other than money. Macs are low volume in comparison to iPhones so they're less likely to accept a reduced margin per unit, even if it's $1. Then there's the question of existing contracts in place for LCD panels needing to expire before switching, and the like. Most likely reduced uint price for longer contract periods etc. Cook is by all accounts brutal for this kind of penny watching so it wouldn't be a surprise.
Totally willing to entertain the idea that it's a complex combination of factors, but the notion of them being especially pernickety with quality control is an urban myth when one steps outside the reality distortion field and actually counts their terrible litany of hardware failures over the decades. Maybe no worse than anyone else, but also no better. OLED has been advanced enough for primetime in laptop panels for ages. An option for those who consume media and hate the milky clouds of comedy following their content around on mini-LED panels would be nice.
Totally willing to entertain the idea that it's a complex combination of factors, but the notion of them being especially pernickety with quality control is an urban myth when one steps outside the reality distortion field and actually counts their terrible litany of hardware failures over the decades. Maybe no worse than anyone else, but also no better. OLED has been advanced enough for primetime in laptop panels for ages. An option for those who consume media and hate the milky clouds of comedy following their content around on mini-LED panels would be nice.
The phones are perfectly suited for OLED. MBPs are not with the current state of the technology, unless burned in menus are desired. Until OLED panels can handle a static menu 8 hours a day for six years, we're not there.
They’re designed effectively the same as the iPhones. That dimmed 1 fps screen would be largely useless on a Mac.