Samsung's smartphone shipments to see first-ever annual decline

[FFR]

So let me ask you a question then. You seem to take glee and enjoyment posting as much negative information concerning Samsung. Why is that? Why are you so obsessed with posting Samsung's perceived failures?
Don't try to deny it. All the regulars here on MR has seen it numerous times.

Oh another question if you will. Why is Apple's insane profits such a bragging point for you? Are you a shareholder?

Oh and yes I have an 6s Plus. It is a very nice phone. I also have a Note 5 that is pretty much my daily driver......so what? I look forward to getting a Nexus 6P as well.

I don't have a vested interest in the Apple or Samsung or how well or not well they do. I just care about the products they deliver. I don't associate either company or their products with my self identity or self worth.
It is not an emotional decision decision which company i choose to buy from.

I see, so if Samsung performing poorly it's my doing. Gotcha. You do love taking threads off topic don't you?

Apples profits isn't a bragging point but a metric you and a few "regular" posters chose to ignore.

Again your phone choices are your own, purchase as much as you can afford, I certainly do.

If you say so .

 

[jamezr]

I see, so if Samsung performing poorly it's my doing. Gotcha. You do love taking threads off topic don't you?

Apples profits isn't a bragging point but a metric you and a few "regular" posters chose to ignore.

Again your phone choices are your own, purchase as much as you can afford, I certainly do.

If you say so .

Can you show me I or anyone else said or insinuated this?

I see, so if Samsung performing poorly it's my doing. Gotcha

No one chooses to ignore Apple's insane profits and cash hordes. We just don't understand why it is a bragging point for you. As most have said here, it doesn't factor into the majority of people's buying decision.

Apples profits isn't a bragging point but a metric you and a few "regular" posters chose to ignore.

So why brag about Apple's profits and insane cash horde? Are you a shareholder?

Remember.....YOU brought up Apple's profits in this thread about Samsung. You brought it up as a bragging point.

 

[lowendlinux]

I read over across the hall that Jim Keller might be joining Samsung as chief architect. If true that has potential to get Samsung out of the doldrums.

 

[jamezr]

I read over across the hall that Jim Keller might be joining Samsung as chief architect. If true that has potential to get Samsung out of the doldrums.

Interesting news to say the least. But he is a chip engineer. I Think they need to optimise TW more that improve their chips.
http://wccftech.com/jim-keller-joining-samsung/

 

[lowendlinux]

Interesting news to say the least. But he is a chip engineer. I Think they need to optimise TW more that improve their chips.
http://wccftech.com/jim-keller-joining-samsung/

In the same respect it's taking Samsung a lot of cores to compete and that's something that Keller can and has in the past fixed. Battery life will be key going forward and 6 and 8 core processors will not help that.

 

[jamezr]

In the same respect it's taking Samsung a lot of cores to compete and that's something that Keller can and has in the past fixed. Battery life will be key going forward and 6 and 8 core processors will not help that.

Great point. Hope Samsung can optimise their chipset and TW.

 

[FFR]

Can you show me I or anyone else said or insinuated this?

Apparently my glee and enjoyment controls the world according to you.
oh look its raining cookies. smh

No one chooses to ignore Apple's insane profits and cash hordes. We just don't understand why it is a bragging point for you. As most have said here, it doesn't factor into the majority of people's buying decision.

Follow the logic; people buy iPhones, apple profits increases, people don't buy iPhones apple profit decreases.
Same with Samsung and their galaxy lines etc.
profit decreases = decrease in sales.

Are you following?
I Cant really simplify it much further.

So why brag about Apple's profits and insane cash horde? Are you a shareholder?

Remember.....YOU brought up Apple's profits in this thread about Samsung. You brought it up as a bragging point.

nope note currently a shareholder.
Bragging?
if samsung actually innovated this wouldn't be happening.
Remind me Jam, didn't you have an s6 or an s6 edge as well at some point, i believe you got rid of it/them, which would correlate what is being shared in this thread.

 

[jamezr]

Apparently my glee and enjoyment controls the world according to you.
oh look its raining cookies. smh



Follow the logic; people buy iPhones, apple profits increases, people don't buy iPhones apple profit decreases.
Same with Samsung and their galaxy lines etc.
profit decreases = decrease in sales.

Are you following?
I Cant really simplify it much further.



nope note currently a shareholder.
Bragging?
if samsung actually innovated this wouldn't be happening.
Remind me Jam, didn't you have an s6 or an s6 edge as well at some point, i believe you got rid of it/them, which would correlate what is being shared in this thread.

You should go back and read your own posts in this thread. You need to get context around what you have actually written before you post such non sense.
Why brag about Apple insane cash hordes then back off to say it amounts to sales. That's not the whole picture around profits. A ton of sales do not mean great profits.

Oh and I did have the Galaxy S6 and S6 edge and I sold both phones........BECAUSE they were too small. I bought the Note 5 and LOVE the phone. Try to keep up if you are going to bring my phone buying into the conversation. I buy a lot of phones to try them out so maybe that's not a good spot for you to bring up.

Now let's stay on topic and keep the personal stuff out.

 

[FFR]

Why brag about Apple insane cash hordes then back off to say it amounts to sales. That's not the whole picture around profits. A ton of sales do not mean great profits.
.

ok right, sounds like your backtracking.
its ok.

That's not the whole picture around profits. A ton of sales do not mean great profits.

never claimed it was the whole picture, but it is 3/4-2/3.

A ton of sales do not mean great profits.

Econ 101.
sales always means profit, if it didn't it would be called a loss.
Now a ton of sales, that means a ton of profit.

Oh and I did have the Galaxy S6 and S6 edge and I sold both phones........BECAUSE they were too small. I bought the Note 5 and LOVE the phone.

yes I'm sure you did. but you sold them, both of them. Your not the only one.
AND that is what the topic of this thread is about. DECLINING samsung sales.

Try to keep up if you are going to bring my phone buying into the conversation. I buy a lot of phones to try them out so maybe that's not a good spot for you to bring up.

Now let's stay on topic and keep the personal stuff out.

Whatever you say, you do seem to Purchase a lot of phones, than return them or replace them.

it doesn't look like you keep many of the phones you try out, nothing wrong with that, in fact a lot of consumers are doing exactly what your doing. Adding to samsung and other Android oem's decline in mobile shipments.

no one seems to take or make this personally but you, you seem to be very confrontational when it comes to samsung towards me and almost everyone else on this board, hope you can work it out, We all love technology after all.

 

[Tsepz]

Samsung and others have innovated, but innovation alone doesn't help much.

iPhone 6S remains one of the worst phones in terms of signal:
http://www.gsmarena.com/apple_iphone_6s_reception_tested_results_come_out_pretty_bad-blog-14677.php yet sells well.

The OEMs should really push their mid range offerings (Compacts, Minis etc...) as iPhone alternatives, they generally match spec for spec, and then push their top end phones differently.

 

[lowendlinux]

Samsung and others have innovated, but innovation alone doesn't help much.

iPhone 6S remains one of the worst phones in terms of signal:
http://www.gsmarena.com/apple_iphone_6s_reception_tested_results_come_out_pretty_bad-blog-14677.php yet sells well.

The OEMs should really push their mid range offerings (Compacts, Minis etc...) as iPhone alternatives, they generally match spec for spec, and then push their top end phones differently.

This is just a symptom of a larger problem for the entire industry.

 

[jamezr]

ok right, sounds like your backtracking.
its ok.




never claimed it was the whole picture, but it is 3/4-2/3.



Econ 101.
sales always means profit, if it didn't it would be called a loss.
Now a ton of sales, that means a ton of profit.





yes I'm sure you did. but you sold them, both of them. Your not the only one.
AND that is what the topic of this thread is about. DECLINING samsung sales.



Whatever you say, you do seem to Purchase a lot of phones, than return them or replace them.

it doesn't look like you keep many of the phones you try out, nothing wrong with that, in fact a lot of consumers are doing exactly what your doing. Adding to samsung and other Android oem's decline in mobile shipments.

no one seems to take or make this personally but you, you seem to be very confrontational when it comes to samsung towards me and almost everyone else on this board, hope you can work it out, We all love technology after all.

A little education goes a LOOOOONG way.

Big sales do not always mean big profits. There are a lot of variables that come into the equation. You can have a ton of sales and still lose money or not make much if you don't have the margins on those sales. That's why your statements are rubbish. Sales don't alway mean profits. You can still sell products and just not make much profit.
Here is a like to better explain it for you
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Profit_margin

Econ 101.
sales always means profit, if it didn't it would be called a loss.
Now a ton of sales, that means a ton of profit.

Then when I SOLD the S6 and S6 edge......did you get the SOLD part? It was SOLD to someone else. So it was still a sale.


Look at the Samsung's phone market share. They sell more phones than Apple does. So why don't they make more profit/money than apple does? there are a ton of variables to consider that why. That's why this statement of yours is rubbish.

Econ 101.
sales always means profit, if it didn't it would be called a loss.
Now a ton of sales, that means a ton of profit.

 

[FFR]

A little education goes a LOOOOONG way.

except I didn't get mine on wikipedia.

A little education goes a LOOOOONG way.

Big sales do not always mean big profits. There are a lot of variables that come into the equation. You can have a ton of sales and still lose money or not make much if you don't have the margins on those sales. That's why your statements are rubbish. Sales don't alway mean profits. You can still sell products and just not make much profit.
Here is a like to better explain it for you
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Profit_margin

Look at you trying to squirrel your way out of being wrong.
Never said big you did. I believe this is called moving the goal posts, you seem to be quite adapt at it.

SALES ALWAYS equals a profit, if it didn't it would be a loss.
Margins be damned, if the phones don't sell there is no profit and thats that.

You can still sell products and just not make much profit.
Here is a like to better explain it for you
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Profit_margin

sorry thats not called selling, in Finance it has many terms, its called a write down, its basically a loss without the stigma.
and still not sales though, keep clicking wikipedia won't help with understanding the subject.

Then when I SOLD the S6 and S6 edge......did you get the SOLD part? It was SOLD to someone else. So it was still a sale.

Yeah Samsung recorded your resale on their balance sheet...No they didn't, thats what we are discussing here samsung's decline in sales.

Look at the Samsung's phone market share. They sell more phones than Apple does. So why don't they make more profit/money than apple does? there are a ton of variables to consider that why. That's why this statement of yours is rubbish.

IF they SOLD more phones than apple they would make more profits than apple.
THEY DONT. its as simple as that.

q1 2015, we are in q4 2015, thats almost a year old.
The world was much rosier for samsung at the beginning of the year.

A little education goes a LOOOOONG way.

no it doesn't.
Sometimes you might require a college education, thats more than a little.

 

[Tsepz]

except I didn't get mine on wikipedia.



Look at you trying to squirrel your way out of being wrong.
Never said big you did. I believe this is called moving the goal posts, you seem to be quite adapt at it.

SALES ALWAYS equals a profit, if it didn't it would be a loss.
Margins be damned, if the phones don't sell there is no profit and thats that.



sorry thats not called selling, in Finance it has many terms, its called a write down, its basically a loss without the stigma.
and still not sales though, keep clicking wikipedia won't help with understanding the subject.



Yeah Samsung recorded your resale on their balance sheet...No they didn't, thats what we are discussing here samsung's decline in sales.




IF they SOLD more phones than apple they would make more profits than apple.
THEY DONT. its as simple as that.






q1 2015, we are in q4 2015, thats almost a year old.
The world was much rosier for samsung at the beginning of the year.



no it doesn't.
Sometimes you might require a college education, thats more than a little.

Chances are Samsung are still #1 in sales globally.

 

[jamezr]

except I didn't get mine on wikipedia.



Look at you trying to squirrel your way out of being wrong.
Never said big you did. I believe this is called moving the goal posts, you seem to be quite adapt at it.

SALES ALWAYS equals a profit, if it didn't it would be a loss.
Margins be damned, if the phones don't sell there is no profit and thats that.



sorry thats not called selling, in Finance it has many terms, its called a write down, its basically a loss without the stigma.
and still not sales though, keep clicking wikipedia won't help with understanding the subject.



Yeah Samsung recorded your resale on their balance sheet...No they didn't, thats what we are discussing here samsung's decline in sales.




IF they SOLD more phones than apple they would make more profits than apple.
THEY DONT. its as simple as that.






q1 2015, we are in q4 2015, thats almost a year old.
The world was much rosier for samsung at the beginning of the year.



no it doesn't.
Sometimes you might require a college education, thats more than a little.

Dude...really you're so wrong it just pathetic now.

Samsung has sold more phone than Apple for at least 3 years running.
Your straw man argument is getting tired......

If you have information to prove different please share. This is the latest info.

http://www.idc.com/prodserv/smartphone-market-share.jsp

 

[BlueGoldAce]

except I didn't get mine on wikipedia.



Look at you trying to squirrel your way out of being wrong.
Never said big you did. I believe this is called moving the goal posts, you seem to be quite adapt at it.

SALES ALWAYS equals a profit, if it didn't it would be a loss.
Margins be damned, if the phones don't sell there is no profit and thats that.



sorry thats not called selling, in Finance it has many terms, its called a write down, its basically a loss without the stigma.
and still not sales though, keep clicking wikipedia won't help with understanding the subject.



Yeah Samsung recorded your resale on their balance sheet...No they didn't, thats what we are discussing here samsung's decline in sales.




IF they SOLD more phones than apple they would make more profits than apple.
THEY DONT. its as simple as that.






q1 2015, we are in q4 2015, thats almost a year old.
The world was much rosier for samsung at the beginning of the year.



no it doesn't.
Sometimes you might require a college education, thats more than a little.

Man, it never good to insult someone, when you are wrong.

It is ABSOLUTELY true that Apple sales LESS phones than Samsung, but makes MORE profit. It is a plain and simple fact.

Samsung sells more low end, low profit margin phones. It is really as simple as that.

Now, it can be said that Apple sells more iPhone 5s, 6 (+), and 6s (+) than Samsung sales S4, S5, S6, note 3-5, etc. These are Samsungs high margin devices, and they sell less than Apple.

Thus that is how Samsung sells more phones, but Apple makes more profit. Apple sells less phone, but more high margin devices.

Samsung sells more phones than anyone else in the business.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

Man, it never good to insult someone, when you are wrong.

It is ABSOLUTELY true that Apple sales LESS phones than Samsung, but makes MORE profit. It is a plain and simple fact.

Samsung sells more low end, low profit margin phones. It is really as simple as that.

Now, it can be said that Apple sells more iPhone 5s, 6 (+), and 6s (+) than Samsung sales S4, S5, S6, note 3-5, etc. These are Samsungs high margin devices, and they sell less than Apple.

Thus that is how Samsung sells more phones, but Apple makes more profit. Apple sells less phone, but more high margin devices.

Samsung sells more phones than anyone else in the business.

That's it in a nutshell.

Apple potentially sell more phones than Samsung in the higher bracket, but Samsung sell more phones overall because they sell devices down to the smallest price bracket. You can buy a Samsung smartphone here in the UK for £30 for example.

This is why these market share debates are pretty moronic at times because the business models of these two companies are completely different. Samsung gets most of its profit from higher end devices which is why they are experiencing drops in recent years. They are selling plenty of phones to give them the lions share of the market in terms of individual phones sales, but they are selling less high end flagship phones than their main competitor. Apple make silly amounts of profit because they sell the most popular smartphone in the world with a nice little mark-up on each unit.

 

[FFR]

Dude...really you're so wrong it just pathetic now.

Samsung has sold more phone than Apple for at least 3 years running.
Your straw man argument is getting tired......

If you have information to prove different please share. This is the latest info.

http://www.idc.com/prodserv/smartphone-market-share.jsp

What's pathetic is your chart from last year.
What's even more pathetic is you constantly turning every post to an apple vs Samsung argument.

Now Samsung may SHIP more phones than apple. But they don't sell. If they did...well they would have more profits (difference between sell in and sell through). Now it's true Samsung sells more low margin phones than apple, but that's for another thread.

The topic of this thread, as reluctant as you might find it, is Samsung's FIRST ever mobile device shipment decline.

You can present anymore charts if you would like, just make sure they are current.

 

[FFR]

Chances are Samsung are still #1 in sales globally.

Maybe but... According to current trends not much longer.

 

[FFR]

Man, it never good to insult someone, when you are wrong.

It is ABSOLUTELY true that Apple sales LESS phones than Samsung, but makes MORE profit. It is a plain and simple fact.

Samsung sells more low end, low profit margin phones. It is really as simple as that.

Now, it can be said that Apple sells more iPhone 5s, 6 (+), and 6s (+) than Samsung sales S4, S5, S6, note 3-5, etc. These are Samsungs high margin devices, and they sell less than Apple.

Thus that is how Samsung sells more phones, but Apple makes more profit. Apple sells less phone, but more high margin devices.

Samsung sells more phones than anyone else in the business.

Am I wrong?

Seriously though the difference in profit vs revenue for apple vs Samsung is staggering.

That's the thing all indication for September onwards lead analysts to believe otherwise.

Anyway at least we all agree on the fact that apple owns the $600+'mobile market.

Let's face it I would be surprised if any of the Samsung flagships (or android for that matter) broke the 5 million device sales/shipment mark in 2015.
It's really has been a bad year for Samsung flagships.

 

[jamezr]

What's pathetic is your chart from last year.
What's even more pathetic is sulu constantly turning every post on an apple vs Samsung argument.

Now Samsung may SHIP more phones than apple. But they don't sell. If they did...well they would have more profits(difference between sell in and sell through). Now it's true Samsung sells more low margin phones than apple, but that's for another thread.

The topic of this thread, as reluctant as you might find it, is Samsung's mobile device shipment decline.

You can present anymore charts if you would like, just make sure they are current.

You have been proven wrong in this thread so many times. It is comical now.
You're so busy hating on Samsung and everything that is not Apple.

Did you even read the original post and follow the link?

What's pathetic is your chart from last year.

You can present anymore charts if you would like, just make sure they are current.

Here let me get that for you. The chart from the very first post. Is that current enough for you?

For you information....those are sales....they are shipped therefore sales.
If you have information to prove otherwise then please by all means share the links for us.

The topic of this thread, as reluctant as you might find it, is Samsung's mobile device shipment decline.

Yes that is the topic. Samsung sells more phones than Apple does but Apple has all the profits. This has been stated so many times in this thread I don't know why you are arguing what EVERYONE here agrees on.

BlueGoldAce summed it up pretty well on this post as well
https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...r-annual-decline.1929340/page-4#post-22146876

 

[BlueGoldAce]

Am I wrong?

Seriously though the difference in profit vs revenue for apple vs Samsung is staggering.

That's the thing all indication for September onwards lead analysts to believe otherwise.

Anyway at least we all agree on the fact that apple owns the $600+'mobile market.

Let's face it I would be surprised if any of the Samsung flagships (or android for that matter) broke the 5 million device sales/shipment mark in 2015.
It's really has been a bad year for Samsung flagships.

You were wrong in overall shipments, but not on the profit or hi end segment.

The Galaxy s6 long broke 5 million. Haven't looked it up but I wouldn't be surprised to see them between 15-20 mil.

Anyway, like i said, you were right on profit.

 

[Klyster]

It's just not worth the effort....... you'll still be wrong somehow.....

 

[Truefan31]

Samsung and others have innovated, but innovation alone doesn't help much.

iPhone 6S remains one of the worst phones in terms of signal:
http://www.gsmarena.com/apple_iphone_6s_reception_tested_results_come_out_pretty_bad-blog-14677.php yet sells well.

The OEMs should really push their mid range offerings (Compacts, Minis etc...) as iPhone alternatives, they generally match spec for spec, and then push their top end phones differently.

That wouldn't work. You would just dilute the android market more. Now even less people would buy the flagship android phones, meaning less money being made. You realize the tech inside the 6s? U know it's good when Linus from ncix is impressed with the iPhone. It's cpu/gpu/storage is tops in the industry right now.

The iPhone is a unique situation. Again because there's no competition for iOS it will sell well as long as people want iOS. Its hardware is appealing, clean/simple interfaces and its App Store is the best overall imo. Samsung tries to go against iPhone in pretty much every ad yet it's not helping them at all. Android oems should focus on distinguishing between other android oems before they take on the iPhone.

And we're discussing flagship sales here I'd imagine. Anyone with a brain understands Samsung sells more general devices because they offer more devices. Compare flagship to flagship and we all know it's a different story. The problem with Samsung is they also release too many devices, watering down their line. Every 3-4 months they're making their own flagships seem old. That's higher costs for manufacturing, supply chain, etc

It could happen they'll be a point where iPhones start to disappoint in sales like Samsung but it looks like it could be a while.

 

[Tsepz]

That wouldn't work. You would just dilute the android market more. Now even less people would buy the flagship android phones, meaning less money being made. You realize the tech inside the 6s? U know it's good when Linus from ncix is impressed with the iPhone. It's cpu/gpu/storage is tops in the industry right now.

The iPhone is a unique situation. Again because there's no competition for iOS it will sell well as long as people want iOS. Its hardware is appealing, clean/simple interfaces and its App Store is the best overall imo. Samsung tries to go against iPhone in pretty much every ad yet it's not helping them at all. Android oems should focus on distinguishing between other android oems before they take on the iPhone.

And we're discussing flagship sales here I'd imagine. Anyone with a brain understands Samsung sells more general devices because they offer more devices. Compare flagship to flagship and we all know it's a different story. The problem with Samsung is they also release too many devices, watering down their line. Every 3-4 months they're making their own flagships seem old. That's higher costs for manufacturing, supply chain, etc

It could happen they'll be a point where iPhones start to disappoint in sales like Samsung but it looks like it could be a while.

What I mean is that the Android OEMs e.g. Samsung, LG, Sony, HTC, and Huawei must charge a tad more for their mid ends, as they match both 6S and 6S Plus spec for spec, produce them in great numbers e.g. Samsung with their Galaxy A series, the Galaxy A5 and A7 are great 6S and 6S Plus alternatives and then produce their flagships in much lower numbers and fewer models e.g. Samsung must do 1 Galaxy S and 1 Galaxy Note a year, Sony must do 1 Z and Z Ultra, LG 1 G and 1 G Pro a year, in smaller numbers/limit availability e.g. make them in smaller quantities and shorter production run, put more focus on software updates and price them a tad higher.