review of the NVMe version of the SAMSUNG SM951:
http://www.storagereview.com/samsung_sm951nvme_m2_ssd_review
http://www.storagereview.com/samsung_sm951nvme_m2_ssd_review
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SATA Express meets the '09 Mac Pro - Bootable NGFF PCIE SSD
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First time poster, and I need some help configuring Windows to my SM951.
I have a cMP 4,1(5,1), a SSUBX booting OSX from slot 3, and I was looking to have my SM951 be a separate Windows boot from slot 4.
Basically, I get to the Windows install (tried both win7 and 8.1), but I continue to have the same problem:
I've removed all other drives from my system and am using the stock GTX120 as well (which resolved some issues).
But now I'm stuck, and I have a feeling that Windows cannot install because the SM951 is being read as an external drive and cannot be booted from. In the error message, it states: "Windows cannot be installed to this disk. This computer's hardware may not support booting to this disk. Ensure that the disk's controller is enabled in the computer's BIOS menu."
I followed this guide and partitioned the SM951:
http://blog.thedeltaflyer.com/2013/01/dual-booting-windows-8-and-mountain-lion-natively-using-efi/
I've read in other posts that using a USB to boot Windows works, but I don't think cMP 4,1 supports the use of USB boot. Creating a USB boot drive in bootcamp is greyed out by default.
I have Windows already on another HDD, but I'm looking to install it on my SM951. I feel like there is a simple solution to getting Windows installed on the SM951, but I've just missed it.
If I find anything, I'll be sure to post back. Thanks.
I have a cMP 4,1(5,1), a SSUBX booting OSX from slot 3, and I was looking to have my SM951 be a separate Windows boot from slot 4.
Basically, I get to the Windows install (tried both win7 and 8.1), but I continue to have the same problem:
I've removed all other drives from my system and am using the stock GTX120 as well (which resolved some issues).
But now I'm stuck, and I have a feeling that Windows cannot install because the SM951 is being read as an external drive and cannot be booted from. In the error message, it states: "Windows cannot be installed to this disk. This computer's hardware may not support booting to this disk. Ensure that the disk's controller is enabled in the computer's BIOS menu."
I followed this guide and partitioned the SM951:
http://blog.thedeltaflyer.com/2013/01/dual-booting-windows-8-and-mountain-lion-natively-using-efi/
I've read in other posts that using a USB to boot Windows works, but I don't think cMP 4,1 supports the use of USB boot. Creating a USB boot drive in bootcamp is greyed out by default.
I have Windows already on another HDD, but I'm looking to install it on my SM951. I feel like there is a simple solution to getting Windows installed on the SM951, but I've just missed it.
If I find anything, I'll be sure to post back. Thanks.
Attachments
I think Windows 7 plays well with SATA cards. I got my Windows 7 bootcamp booting of an mSata over AHCI. If you notice most of the SATA-based cards they will also have a host controller embedded which (I think) helps with booting and device identification.
From what I heard, Windows 8 may work with what you are trying to achieve so maybe try that first?
I tried to install both win7 and 8.1, but they both give me the same error I noted above. At this point, I don't feel like testing anymore, but I'll share what I observed.
The SM951 with the Lycom DT-120 adaptor works fine for OSX and basic storage purposes, but I was unable to use this particular pair to boot into windows.
I was having issues with my GTX680 during windows booting and swapped it out for the default GPU that comes with the 4,1. But, even after switching GPUs, I was only able to initiate windows install when the SM951 was in slot 2. Also, there needs to be no other drives in the other PCIe slots. After all this, windows still refuses to install on the SM951.
If you are looking to have an M.2 SSD as a windows boot drive, I would recommend trying the XP941 with the Lycom DT-120. It seems that others have had success with that combination, but I'm unable to confirm whether it works or not. I might try it when I have more time...
The SM951 with the Lycom DT-120 adaptor works fine for OSX and basic storage purposes, but I was unable to use this particular pair to boot into windows.
I was having issues with my GTX680 during windows booting and swapped it out for the default GPU that comes with the 4,1. But, even after switching GPUs, I was only able to initiate windows install when the SM951 was in slot 2. Also, there needs to be no other drives in the other PCIe slots. After all this, windows still refuses to install on the SM951.
If you are looking to have an M.2 SSD as a windows boot drive, I would recommend trying the XP941 with the Lycom DT-120. It seems that others have had success with that combination, but I'm unable to confirm whether it works or not. I might try it when I have more time...
On PC side, if one wants to use UEFI (and GPT) then the USB installer instead of being NTSB which works for MBR, the installer had to be FAT32.
And no other GPT drives can be present if not doing an install, which always prevented Windows from installing and triggering the error shown, even Thunderbolt drives.
Boot Camp Assistant 5 definitely supports USB booting.
It work just fine. I'm not quite sure why this is required but this was what it took for me to install Windows on a Sm951.
Step 1- Follow boot camp assistant like you normally would
Step 2- When bootcamp reboots your system, turn it off just as it restarts (or turn it off by loading up the install window and backing out
Step 3- Open your Mac pro's Door and Remove Every Single drive thats installed in your system even other PCI express hard drives. Only keep Thr drive you wish to install windows on. In your case your 256GB SM951.
Step 4- Delete all partitions on the bootcamp drive and click new partition. Then install Windows 7 like you normally would. (if this still doesn't work, delete all partitions on the drive and click new partition). It should work now.
Step 5- Once Windows has fully installed turn off your system and re-install your hard drives.
If your still having troubles for some reason you can do this.
Step 1- Install windows on a different hard drive (must be the same size or smaller than your sm951). Or use a bigger hard drive (anysize) and partition the drive to be 256GB or less. The rest of the space can be empty space, or you can throw a mac partition on it to finish up the empty space.
Step 2- Use Win Clone pro to make an image of your bootcamp drive.
Step 3- Then remove the Windows Drive from your Mac Pro and re-install your sm951
Step 4- Format the SM951 as as Fat 32 partition.
Step 5- Use Win Clone to apply the image to your Sm951 drive.
If this is how your booting windows your doing it wrong. This will not work, bootcamp installs all the hardware needed to get windows to boot and match up the drivers. This is why windows won't let you install it because it doesn't understand the hardware since the boot drive your booting from has hardware from a different mac computer. In order to install windows 7 on the Mac you need to run it from the CD or change the bootcamp files to make your Mac Pro create the usb bootable stick on its own. I don't know why this is, but when it comes to booting window USB's on macs it doesn't work the same as an OSX bootable usb.
I actually tried the exact same method that you did but with different computers last year. On my MacBook Pro (had cd drive) i created a bootable Windows 7 USB from my 2013 iMac (Doesn't have a Disc Drive). It booted fine, but failed to install with the same issues that you are. I tried many different ways and they all failed and never got it to work.
Since i was installing two SSD's in my Macbook Pro i had to remove my Disc Drive, but OSX wouldn't allow me to make a USB bootable drive since my Macbook originally came with a Disc Drive. Thats when I looked online and found a way to edit the bootcamp file in my MacBook Pro and once that was done I was able to boot and install windows 7 on my Second SSD. I'm sure their could be other ways to get it to work, but this method was by far the easiest and allowed me to install windows right away without errors.
Honestly since you have the Disc Drive installed, just Burn a copy of your Windows image and run it from the disc. It's a lot less complicated and is guaranteed to work.
If you still want to boot from USB follow This Guide
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There is an easy fix for this, I just did an EFI install on 4,1.
It's in a thread about GTX98-0 and Windows EFI.
Basically once I got to that "MBR is a no-no" screen I hit a function key and used the command window to clean (partition) the drive.
Was like 3 commands and it let me install. The drive needs to be ready to be 100% a Windows drive.
tiamo strikes again! it looks as if he's about to fix another big annoyance. according to a post from yesterday he was able to manipulate an SSD's firmware so it'll identify itself as an Apple SSD so TRIM will be enabled without the need to edit OS X's KEXT ->
https://forums.macrumors.com/posts/21345929/
https://forums.macrumors.com/posts/21345929/
Man - if he succeeds. That will be soooo awesome! I hope he does - without compromising the SSD performance.
Thanks for all the replies. Unfortunately, I haven't had much luck getting Windows to install on my SM951. I've tried legacy install with a DVD, cloning my current drive to it, and USB installing doesn't work; on the Apple EFI boot, it just freezes when I select "EFI Boot." Nothing's worked, so I decided to use an Samsung 840 to boot Windows. I installed it via DVD, no bootcamp. So now I have Windows on a tiny SATA II SSD and OS X Yosemite on my SSUBX.
Well, there's another problem. When both drives are connected, I cannot boot to Windows. I get an endless blinking cursor in the top left, which has been my bane for the last few days). I think I also had one instance of "Disk read error...press Ctrl+Alt+Del." Basically, I take out the SSUBX and I can boot Windows no problem. So, for me, I've found two conflicts concerning the mix of booting Windows with M.2 SSDs (on my 4,1 cMP).
1. It's a bitch to install Windows via legacy DVD; I haven't been able to do it so far.
2. Even from a SATA II connection, Windows can't boot when another bootable M.2 SSD is connected.
At this point, I know there are some other things I can test, but I'm too tired to try. For now, if I really need Windows, I'll just disconnect my SSUBX. But thanks for all the advice so far.
Well, there's another problem. When both drives are connected, I cannot boot to Windows. I get an endless blinking cursor in the top left, which has been my bane for the last few days). I think I also had one instance of "Disk read error...press Ctrl+Alt+Del." Basically, I take out the SSUBX and I can boot Windows no problem. So, for me, I've found two conflicts concerning the mix of booting Windows with M.2 SSDs (on my 4,1 cMP).
1. It's a bitch to install Windows via legacy DVD; I haven't been able to do it so far.
2. Even from a SATA II connection, Windows can't boot when another bootable M.2 SSD is connected.
At this point, I know there are some other things I can test, but I'm too tired to try. For now, if I really need Windows, I'll just disconnect my SSUBX. But thanks for all the advice so far.
I use Paragon Hard Disk Manager 15 to manage and clone Windows. Paragon also has some Mac Boot Camp support programs.
Installing Windows without BCA should work, and by not having any other drive present reduce it being linked to those. But moving Windows to a different SATA port or path (like PCIe device) might mean having to boot again from the installer (and try to get a USB).
UEFI booting would be nice but that "EFI" on the screen from the option/alt key is not going to otherwise work for Windows.
That's very strange. It works just fine for me. I've upgraded my firmware to 5,1 and I using bootcamp on Mavericks. Maybe Yosemite is causing an issue, but seems very unlikely. Something else must be causing it or you didn't follow my instructions exactly.
Did you remove ALL drives when trying to install windows on the sm951? You mentioned that you have a SSUBX drive which I'm assuming is your OSX drive, was that also remove? You have to remove All drives;every single one expect the one drive that you wish to install windows on.
Then you have to delete ALL partition on the drive and create a new one using the windows setup. Windows will not install from the bootcamps created partitions since that is fat32. It only formats it as fat32 so windows setup will see it and allow you to erase and create an ntfs partition.
You must delete every partition on the drive before windows will allow you to install it as ntfs. Failure to do so will result in the same error your getting. In that photo you didn't delete all the partitions either. Have you tried that?
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I definitely try Paragon when I have more time. And I don't think my system allows native EFI booting of Windows, which is a shame because I think issues like this are tied to GPT, MBR, and hybrid partition tables.
I always removed all drives when attempting to install Windows via DVD, and I always used diskpart in cmd prompt while installing to clean/reformat the drive.
Also, in BCA, the option to install windows in greyed out. I feel like this is related to my issues of incompatibility between different partition schemes being able to function with one another. I don't know why that would be happening though. I must have messed something up somewhere.
I always removed all drives when attempting to install Windows via DVD, and I always used diskpart in cmd prompt while installing to clean/reformat the drive.
Also, in BCA, the option to install windows in greyed out. I feel like this is related to my issues of incompatibility between different partition schemes being able to function with one another. I don't know why that would be happening though. I must have messed something up somewhere.
In the photo you didn't delete all the partitions on the drive which would prevent you from Installing windows. Another issue might be the boot record if you installed osx on the sm951 before attempting to install windows. If so use disc util to switch it back to windows boot record.
If you run boot camp assistant with your windows 7 dvd and USB stick the drive will boot automatically. I'm not sure of the widows disc will boot without using boot camp assist, I've never tried. Again if you didn't remove all drives or delete every single partition on the drive it won't let you set it up. The photo you posted had two other partitions so I'm not sure if you tried deleting them after you posted that or not.
Another thought, you did buy the Lycom adapter and not a cheap off brand eBay one right? Lycom definitely works since in able to boot windows fine I'm my 256gb sm951.
You don't have to delete any partitions ... just go down to the "Drive Options (advanced)" button, then select to format it as NTFS. Then let the installer proceed.
It is a good idea to temporarily remove any extra disk drives in the system until after the install is complete.
It is a good idea to temporarily remove any extra disk drives in the system until after the install is complete.
ive installed windows on a lot of macs, my iMac, two MacBook pros and two mac pros and every single time I was forced to delete all partitions in order for that error to go away. Maybe it depends on the version of windows your using, and sub versions as well as original discs, upgrades or oem discs. Mine are original windows 7 pro discs.
Is the drive GPT to begin with? Change that first before proceeding. then you can use the Windows install where it gets to target drive and delete and once there are zero partitions, Windows will accept the drive and create how ever many and the proper size based on Windows version and GPT or not.
Windows 10 shows 300MB (Healthy, Recovery) / 100MB (EFI - this is a UEFI boot system) / NTFS (system volume)
Seems backward but when making a Windows UEFI installer it had to be FAT32 and not NTFS format for the USB drive that I use to do for Windows 8/8.1
BCA creates FAT32 for the system only because Apple cannot is not allowed to use NTFS which it was doing originally, and it gets reformatted or nuked anyway during install of Windows.
Hey everyone - trying to catch up on the recent developments and I need some advice.
1. This is the best 512GB SSD to get at the moment, right?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Samsung...5-655-1859D-/171806511970?hash=item2800775362
2. Does this Sintech card work with the above-mentioned SSUBX?
http://eshop.sintech.cn/20132014-ma...-p-1026.html?zenid=2kg1mt62ae56ev2q187mgcp2g0
It doesn't list the model #, but I was wondering if the page is outdated.
Thanks again for all the great info!
1. This is the best 512GB SSD to get at the moment, right?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Samsung...5-655-1859D-/171806511970?hash=item2800775362
2. Does this Sintech card work with the above-mentioned SSUBX?
http://eshop.sintech.cn/20132014-ma...-p-1026.html?zenid=2kg1mt62ae56ev2q187mgcp2g0
It doesn't list the model #, but I was wondering if the page is outdated.
Thanks again for all the great info!
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Yes an yes.
The page is outdated, all SSUBX blades are not listed. But the proprietary Apple PCI Express interface has not changed since 2013.
I'll echo others' sentiments: what a fantastic thread!
Forgive me if these have already been discussed...I'm working my way through the whole thread, but so far I'm only on page 17 of 42.
1. Will these SSDs/adapters negotiate an x4 PCIe 1.0 link using slots 3 or 4 in a MacPro3,1 (2008)? Has anyone tried? With 1000MB/s available (250MB/s x 4), I would think the performance would still be pretty good, even accounting for overhead.
2. While these reported speeds are staggering, I'm interested in possibly doing a mirrored setup for ultra-quick data accesses on a server I maintain (which is the MP 2008 mentioned above) that wouldn't have to have the ultimate speeds shown in some tests. Does anyone see a problem w/ doing a mirrored setup in slots 3 & 4 on that machine?
2b. If #2 would work, any thoughts on comparing that to something like an OWC Accelsior (which can reportedly be firmware-switched to mirror, rather than stripe)?
3. Regarding the Bplus "dual" adapter that has to use the flex/ribbon cable to hook into a 2nd PCIe slot, why bother? Is there any benefit to doing this vs. just getting a 2nd card? Seems to me a 2nd card would have the advantage of being able to be moved to another system, whereas the card + cable cannot.
Thanks!
Fred
Forgive me if these have already been discussed...I'm working my way through the whole thread, but so far I'm only on page 17 of 42.
1. Will these SSDs/adapters negotiate an x4 PCIe 1.0 link using slots 3 or 4 in a MacPro3,1 (2008)? Has anyone tried? With 1000MB/s available (250MB/s x 4), I would think the performance would still be pretty good, even accounting for overhead.
2. While these reported speeds are staggering, I'm interested in possibly doing a mirrored setup for ultra-quick data accesses on a server I maintain (which is the MP 2008 mentioned above) that wouldn't have to have the ultimate speeds shown in some tests. Does anyone see a problem w/ doing a mirrored setup in slots 3 & 4 on that machine?
2b. If #2 would work, any thoughts on comparing that to something like an OWC Accelsior (which can reportedly be firmware-switched to mirror, rather than stripe)?
3. Regarding the Bplus "dual" adapter that has to use the flex/ribbon cable to hook into a 2nd PCIe slot, why bother? Is there any benefit to doing this vs. just getting a 2nd card? Seems to me a 2nd card would have the advantage of being able to be moved to another system, whereas the card + cable cannot.
Thanks!
Fred
OK, wondering if anyone has any thoughts on my predicament which follows.
I had a 2009 4.1 Mac Pro that I had updated the firmware on to 5.1, installed dual 6 core 3.33GHz processors, GTX680, 48GB RAM, and had fitted 12 SSDs into it running on an Areca 1882 RAID card. 6 were striped for system, and 6 striped for storage, for memory each stripe was getting something like 1.8TB over second for large file size, can't remember what small file size performance was like. All of this was backed up internally to a large HD in the second optical bay, along with external backup to Time Capsule, so redundancy of striping was not an issue... and some mongrel broke in and stole it, along with a pile of other stuff.
Soooo, back to the drawing board, and starting all over, trying to remember just how it was that everything was actually setup and wired up, e.g. how and where I split power etc. Won an auction the other day for a 2012 built 5.1 dual core from a TV production studio that went bust. I have a pair of 3.46 6 cores to go into it, plus plan to get a 980 Ti when/if MacVidCards release one.
I also have a late 2013 MBP that came with a 512 SSD in it, but I had upgraded it previously to a 1TB (without cracking open the back of the machine, would have to guess it's a SSUAX.) I am going to get the latest 15" now, so will reinstall the 512 into it and sell it, leaving me with the 1TB SSUAX to shift into the cMP. I have also bought a 1TB SSUBX a few days back along with a couple of Sintechs to mount them. Also have a 500 850 EVO to install Windows on to.
So, thoughts are along the lines of dual Sintechs, SSUAX in slot 2, SSUBX in slot 3 (due to the negotiation issue), EVO SSD into either drive bay 1 for Windows (no biggie if running at SATA 2 as Windows is rarely used), or into the spare optical bay, leaving the 4 traditional drive bays to install other drives if I want down the track.
First thought was to stripe the two PCI-E sticks to create a single partition setup, but I'm pretty sure I read on the of these pages that the small file size speed will suffer dramatically. Correct? Additionally, striping means that they would both effectively run at the speed of the slower one, so I have gone with overkill getting the SSUBX, and should have just gone a second SSAUX.
Also, if RAID makes these run slower on small file sizes, what are peoples thoughts on how to split the data on the drives, given the speed differences between the two models? Faster SSUBX as boot and apps drive with SSUAX as storage and scratch drive? Or run as system/apps/scratch, and second drive for the files? Or the other way around, slightly slower drive for system, faster for scratch etc? Machine only gets used occasionally, mainly for Photoshop and Final Cut type stuff BTW.
Secondly, I also (before I had properly thought it all through) bought a PCI USB3 card, which will go into slot 4, and an Capricorn Velocity Duo. Initially I planned to mount the EVO on this to speed up Windows, but at that stage I was only planning to have the single SSUBX in there, but with graphics, two PCI-E SSDs and a USB card, I have no room.
Any comments or thoughts form people running these cards? Go for stripe and stuff the EVO into the drive bay? Go single SSUBX, and whack the EVO into the Capricorn? Don't stripe? Thoughts muchly appreciated!
I had a 2009 4.1 Mac Pro that I had updated the firmware on to 5.1, installed dual 6 core 3.33GHz processors, GTX680, 48GB RAM, and had fitted 12 SSDs into it running on an Areca 1882 RAID card. 6 were striped for system, and 6 striped for storage, for memory each stripe was getting something like 1.8TB over second for large file size, can't remember what small file size performance was like. All of this was backed up internally to a large HD in the second optical bay, along with external backup to Time Capsule, so redundancy of striping was not an issue... and some mongrel broke in and stole it, along with a pile of other stuff.
Soooo, back to the drawing board, and starting all over, trying to remember just how it was that everything was actually setup and wired up, e.g. how and where I split power etc. Won an auction the other day for a 2012 built 5.1 dual core from a TV production studio that went bust. I have a pair of 3.46 6 cores to go into it, plus plan to get a 980 Ti when/if MacVidCards release one.
I also have a late 2013 MBP that came with a 512 SSD in it, but I had upgraded it previously to a 1TB (without cracking open the back of the machine, would have to guess it's a SSUAX.) I am going to get the latest 15" now, so will reinstall the 512 into it and sell it, leaving me with the 1TB SSUAX to shift into the cMP. I have also bought a 1TB SSUBX a few days back along with a couple of Sintechs to mount them. Also have a 500 850 EVO to install Windows on to.
So, thoughts are along the lines of dual Sintechs, SSUAX in slot 2, SSUBX in slot 3 (due to the negotiation issue), EVO SSD into either drive bay 1 for Windows (no biggie if running at SATA 2 as Windows is rarely used), or into the spare optical bay, leaving the 4 traditional drive bays to install other drives if I want down the track.
First thought was to stripe the two PCI-E sticks to create a single partition setup, but I'm pretty sure I read on the of these pages that the small file size speed will suffer dramatically. Correct? Additionally, striping means that they would both effectively run at the speed of the slower one, so I have gone with overkill getting the SSUBX, and should have just gone a second SSAUX.
Also, if RAID makes these run slower on small file sizes, what are peoples thoughts on how to split the data on the drives, given the speed differences between the two models? Faster SSUBX as boot and apps drive with SSUAX as storage and scratch drive? Or run as system/apps/scratch, and second drive for the files? Or the other way around, slightly slower drive for system, faster for scratch etc? Machine only gets used occasionally, mainly for Photoshop and Final Cut type stuff BTW.
Secondly, I also (before I had properly thought it all through) bought a PCI USB3 card, which will go into slot 4, and an Capricorn Velocity Duo. Initially I planned to mount the EVO on this to speed up Windows, but at that stage I was only planning to have the single SSUBX in there, but with graphics, two PCI-E SSDs and a USB card, I have no room.
Any comments or thoughts form people running these cards? Go for stripe and stuff the EVO into the drive bay? Go single SSUBX, and whack the EVO into the Capricorn? Don't stripe? Thoughts muchly appreciated!
Just my humble opinion, but with the given gear...
Slot 1 - GTX 980
Slot 2 - SSUAX (Boot/Apps.)
Slot 3 - SSUBX (Data or Scratch)
Slot 4 - USB 3.0
SATA 2 - 850 EVO (Windows)
Slot 1 - GTX 980
Slot 2 - SSUAX (Boot/Apps.)
Slot 3 - SSUBX (Data or Scratch)
Slot 4 - USB 3.0
SATA 2 - 850 EVO (Windows)
Have been leaning toward basically this setup, but with the system and OS running on the SSUBX for extra speed all the time, given it has s very good jump in small file performance, and also use this as scratch, and then all my files and video etc on the SSUAX, that way, scratch will be to a separate drive to the actual source files.
Problem is, however, the Mac Pro arrived today, and is decked out pretty full as it is, with a Crucial M4 (not sure where I will use this) and a few 4TB HDs in it, 96GB RAM plus a Blackmagic Decklink 4k Extreme card in it ... trying to work out if it's worth keeping the 4K card for the limited amount of tinkering with 4K I am thinking of doing using a GoPro and DJI Phantom drone from time to time... First world problems eh?
The reason I suggested the SSUAX for boot/Apps. because it doesn't suffer from boot delays, and it doesn't have any Link Speed negotiation problems in slot 2. I'm pretty sure you won't be able to notice the difference in in App. launching speeds, but boot times will be much better with SSUAX.