SATA Express meets the '09 Mac Pro - Bootable NGFF PCIE SSD

[johnrambo]

The Sintech card should work for any PCIe-based SSDs with Apple-specific connector.

What happened to the Accelsiors?

First one worked for about 12 hours and then basically came to a standstill. OWC claimed a problem with the blades. 2nd one worked for 5 days until it refused to boot. Instead of seeing the 240gb Mercury drive in disk utility there was "33KB SandForce {200026BB}" in its place. Wiped my hands of them after that so unfortunately (more like fortunately) I couldn't tell you what OWC claims the problem was the second time around.


And thanks for the info bout the Sintech adapter... I just ordered one. Looking forward to getting back to full speed!

 

[pastrychef]

I'm also seeing reports of SSUBX boot reliability issues compared to the older SSUAX blades. Does this mean when you restart the computer the drive isn't picked up by the machine? What has to be done to get the drive to eventually boot? 5.1 cMP running 10.3. Fair to say that if 2009 machines are experiencing this then there's a good chance I'm in store for this as well?

When using an SSUBX in PCI-e slot 3, there is a delay of approximately 1 minute before the computer begins booting from the SSD.

If you use the SSUBX in slot 2, there is no delay. However, it will run slower than when connected to slot 3. About 1000MB/s vs 1500MB/s and 2.5GT/s vs 5GT/s link speed.

Personally, I don't reboot often and leave my SSUBX in slot 3 for speed advantage. As far as I know, this is true of both 4,1 and 5,1 Mac Pros.

 

[fhturner]

When using an SSUBX in PCI-e slot 3, there is a delay of approximately 1 minute before the computer begins booting from the SSD.

If you use the SSUBX in slot 2, there is no delay. However, it will run slower than when connected to slot 3. About 1000MB/s vs 1500MB/s and 2.5GT/s vs 5GT/s link speed.

After reading so many posts, I can't recall...have we established if it is universal across all SSUBXes, or whether some revisions (xxx/0A2, xxx/0A6, etc) behave properly where others don't?

 

[pastrychef]

After reading so many posts, I can't recall...have we established if it is universal across all SSUBXes, or whether some revisions (xxx/0A2, xxx/0A6, etc) behave properly where others don't?

From what I've gathered, the delay in booting only occurs with newer SSUBXes.

 

[crjackson2134]

But I started to notice that it wasn't always. And then a few times I tried to use the "boot picker" and sometimes the SSUBX doesn't show up. Which would explain the boot delay, the NVRAM says "here is path to boot disc" but it goes there and finds....???? So then it hangs. (my guess)

MVC I've been thinking about this and I have a theory why yours would disappear and mine is very reliable but slow.

You are probably either pulling or installing video cards (hence the reboot is needed). I think this forces a PCIe Buss re-scan. It's the re-scan that makes it lose the SSUBX. It doesn't scan properly and has to be selected most of the time. Once set in NVRAM, it's normally a done deal, but whereas you are pulling and installing cards on the PCIe Buss all the time, it's re-scanning, not finding the SSUBX (because its apparently invisible to the auto-scan and requires the user to select it) thereby jacking up the boot disk setting. What do think?

 

[johnrambo]

From what I've gathered, the delay in booting only occurs with newer SSUBXes.

Thanks. Same here don't reboot too often. Will report back with the parts I went with and how they're operating.

 

[MacVidCards]

MVC I've been thinking about this and I have a theory why yours would disappear and mine is very reliable but slow.

You are probably either pulling or installing video cards (hence the reboot is needed). I think this forces a PCIe Buss re-scan. It's the re-scan that makes it lose the SSUBX. It doesn't scan properly and has to be selected most of the time. Once set in NVRAM, it's normally a done deal, but whereas you are pulling and installing cards on the PCIe Buss all the time, it's re-scanning, not finding the SSUBX (because its apparently invisible to the auto-scan and requires the user to select it) thereby jacking up the boot disk setting. What do think?

This makes sense. I have the SSUBX just sitting around for now. The nMP has both OS X and Win 8 on it so getting the SSUBX into it is a little more complicated.

For my use, the faster boot times of the SSUAX are far more important. All day long I start, run Valley, stop, switch cards.

Lather, rinse, repeat.

SSUBX was causing frustration, will be better off in the nMP when I get it there.

 

[crjackson2134]

Yeah, I kind of wish I could trade mine for an SSUAX 1TB because of the boot delay. It nags at me but it's not really caused a problem so I'm trying to learn how to just ignore it and be patient when booting. I test 3rd party development hardware for a couple of companies, and write internal reviews for their use only. So far I haven't ran into much of a problem but I know I will.

 

[buster84]

Yeah, I kind of wish I could trade mine for an SSUAX 1TB because of the boot delay. It nags at me but it's not really caused a problem so I'm trying to learn how to just ignore it and be patient when booting. I test 3rd party development hardware for a couple of companies, and write internal reviews for their use only. So far I haven't ran into much of a problem but I know I will.

What would happen if you ran an ssubx and an ssuax in a raid 0 format on lane 2/3?

Since one lane boots fast and the othe doesn't I wonder if a raid option would slow the boot on them both or maybe increase it? If you have both to test you could try it if you haven't already.

 

[crjackson2134]

I don't have both. If I had an SSUAX working as desired, I sell the SSUBX.

 

[Draeconis]

What would happen if you ran an ssubx and an ssuax in a raid 0 format on lane 2/3?

Since one lane boots fast and the othe doesn't I wonder if a raid option would slow the boot on them both or maybe increase it? If you have both to test you could try it if you haven't already.

The RAID would act as a single volume, so it'd wait for the slower SSD before initialising.

 

[fhturner]

Multi-PCIe SSD Adapter for the cMP and PC
FWIW, I've started reaching out to OEM/ODM vendors for a quote on producing a x8 or x16 PLX based multiple PCIe SSD adapter....In my best guesstimates, a dual or quad PCIe SSD adapter should come in at a final cost $100 +/-. What are your thoughts on the pricing?

Handheld, have you made any further headway on this? I've read through to the end of the thread previously, but I don't recall seeing more about this. In any case, I think $100 price range would be extremely reasonable for the ability to get maximum throughput out of 2–4 of these blades (not to mention, save a PCIe slot or 2).

Fred

 

[crjackson2134]

For anyone who's interested and hasn't yet discovered this. Apple has provided us with a tool to turn TRIM on for ALL SSDs that support it. It's called trimforce.

Credit for finding this goes to mikeboss & Daku93

Procedure for Yosemite & Cappy - (Yosemite 10.10.4+)

1 - Open a terminal session

2 - Enter the command "sudo trimforce enable"

3 - Press the enter key and follow all the prompts, and agree to the terms of use

4 - Reboot to the normal desktop and enjoy trim on all of your SSDs

 

[fhturner]

For anyone who's interested and hasn't yet discovered this. Apple has provided us with a tool to turn TRIM on for ALL SSDs that support it. It's called trimforce.

Nice catch...sounds like that is what everyone has been wishing Apple would provide for a good while! Don't think I'm sharing anything unauthorized here (if so, I'm glad to remove!), but the man pages from the El Capitan beta have this to say:

NAME

trimforce -- enable TRIM commands on third-party drives

DESCRIPTION

trimforce enables sending TRIM commands to third-party drives attached to an AHCI controller. By default, TRIM commands are not sent to third-party drives. Use extreme caution when enabling TRIM, as some drives may not correctly handle the commands. trimforce must be run by the system administrator.

VERBS

enable
Start sending TRIM commands to AHCI-attached third-party drives.
Requires a reboot to take effect.

disable
Stop sending TRIM commands to AHCI-attached third-party drives.
Requires a reboot to take effect.

help
Display brief usage syntax.

HISTORY

The trimforce utility first appeared in OS X 10.10.4.

It isn't obvious to me that you have to reboot to the Recovery Partition tho...I get those man pages just booted normally. Where did you see the part about having to use Recovery?

Fred

 

[crjackson2134]

It isn't obvious to me that you have to reboot to the Recovery Partition tho...I get those man pages just booted normally. Where did you see the part about having to use Recovery?

Fred

Research & experience. I don't have it my fingertips, but it was revealed during a developers discussion, and someone else here on the forums. Then I put it to use for conformation.

EDIT: As of the DB2 update, you no longer have to boot into the recovery partition and disable SIP (Rootless) to run the trimforce enable command.

 

[madhouse123]

Just got a 2009 Mac Pro dual processor (upgrading to 5,1 and 2x3.46GHz processors). I have 2x two samsung XP941s 256GB and 2x Lycom Dt-120s that I'm using for Raid 0 boot drive... I assume PCIe slots 2+3 are the best to put these in? Are these the ideal adapters to be using for the XP941s? Any tips on Raid 0 and running them as a boot drive?

 

[fhturner]

Is there a difference on eBay between the $5-6 Sintech adapters like this:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Adapter-Car...2015-MacBook-Air-A1465-A1466-SSD/221780588459

and the $20+ ones like this:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/SINTECH-201...1502-A1398-SSD-PCI-e-4X-adapter-/321680448440

I know the 2nd revision supposedly has better fit and finish than the 1st, so obviously I'd want the 2nd. But are these different revisions or simply one w/ heat sink and one without?

 

[fhturner]

Just got a 2009 Mac Pro dual processor (upgrading to 5,1 and 2x3.46GHz processors). I have 2x two samsung XP941s 256GB and 2x Lycom Dt-120s that I'm using for Raid 0 boot drive... I assume PCIe slots 2+3 are the best to put these in? Are these the ideal adapters to be using for the XP941s? Any tips on Raid 0 and running them as a boot drive?

I believe you are correct on your first 2 questions: slots 2+3 (or 2+4, I suppose) should give you the greatest throughput, and I think the Lycoms are the standard. As for RAID0 boot drive, I would think you can simply format them in Disk Utility, add as RAID members, then clone or install a system onto them.

 

[madhouse123]

I believe you are correct on your first 2 questions: slots 2+3 (or 2+4, I suppose) should give you the greatest throughput, and I think the Lycoms are the standard. As for RAID0 boot drive, I would think you can simply format them in Disk Utility, add as RAID members, then clone or install a system onto them.

Thanks for the response!

Just booted the machine up after upgrading it to the 2 new CPUs (very nerve-racking!!!), so I'm attempting to transfer a lot of apps and configuration stuff from my Mac Mini, should I do a fresh install to the samsung RAID0 (with the existing Mac Pro's HDD which has 10.10 kept in just until I get the samsungs going), then use the migration tool to xfer from the mini?

Also potentially of importance, I'm going to be running a total of 6x4TB WD Red drives internally, 2 arrays of 3 of them in RAID0 (so 3 total RAID0 arrays including the samsungs), Any potential issues with this? I was going to use SoftRAID (http://www.softraid.com/) to manage the 2 arrays of WD drives (and just FYI I'm using a drobo to back all of this up with 6TB WD Reds).

Finally, my PCIe setup will be:
Slot 1 = GPU (to be decided, I know this thread is about PCIe SSDs but feel free to PM me any recommendations given the amount of drives that will be in machine etc., so to stay within power constraints)
Slot 2 + 3 = samsung xp941s via lycom Dt-120s
Slot 4 = CalDigit USB 3.0 and Esata 6G

 

[fhturner]

Thanks for the response!

Just booted the machine up after upgrading it to the 2 new CPUs (very nerve-racking!!!), so I'm attempting to transfer a lot of apps and configuration stuff from my Mac Mini, should I do a fresh install to the samsung RAID0 (with the existing Mac Pro's HDD which has 10.10 kept in just until I get the samsungs going), then use the migration tool to xfer from the mini?

Also potentially of importance, I'm going to be running a total of 6x4TB WD Red drives internally, 2 arrays of 3 of them in RAID0 (so 3 total RAID0 arrays including the samsungs), Any potential issues with this? I was going to use SoftRAID (http://www.softraid.com/) to manage the 2 arrays of WD drives (and just FYI I'm using a drobo to back all of this up with 6TB WD Reds).

Finally, my PCIe setup will be:
Slot 1 = GPU (to be decided, I know this thread is about PCIe SSDs but feel free to PM me any recommendations given the amount of drives that will be in machine etc., so to stay within power constraints)
Slot 2 + 3 = samsung xp941s via lycom Dt-120s
Slot 4 = CalDigit USB 3.0 and Esata 6G

Cool about the CPU upgrade! You said 3.46GHz CPUs...is that 4- or 6-core? I assume the latter, but I couldn't remember if the sixes topped out that high.

I believe I would probably do the fresh install + Migration Assistant transfer that you mention. That'd assure that you have a nice, fresh system to start with.

Wow, that's a lot of storage! The only things I can think of to worry about would be providing enough power for all those drives (which should be fine, since there are 4 direct-attach sleds and 2 optical bays anyway) and cooling. I would think cooling would also be fine, since the Reds are 5400RPM and designed for concentrated installation.

Slot config looks good to me.

Enjoy!
Fred

 

[buster84]

Thanks for the response!

Just booted the machine up after upgrading it to the 2 new CPUs (very nerve-racking!!!), so I'm attempting to transfer a lot of apps and configuration stuff from my Mac Mini, should I do a fresh install to the samsung RAID0 (with the existing Mac Pro's HDD which has 10.10 kept in just until I get the samsungs going), then use the migration tool to xfer from the mini?

Also potentially of importance, I'm going to be running a total of 6x4TB WD Red drives internally, 2 arrays of 3 of them in RAID0 (so 3 total RAID0 arrays including the samsungs), Any potential issues with this? I was going to use SoftRAID (http://www.softraid.com/) to manage the 2 arrays of WD drives (and just FYI I'm using a drobo to back all of this up with 6TB WD Reds).

Finally, my PCIe setup will be:
Slot 1 = GPU (to be decided, I know this thread is about PCIe SSDs but feel free to PM me any recommendations given the amount of drives that will be in machine etc., so to stay within power constraints)
Slot 2 + 3 = samsung xp941s via lycom Dt-120s
Slot 4 = CalDigit USB 3.0 and Esata 6G

Actually this will work quite well. I have a similar setup with my Mac Pro Server. I'm running two x5650 instead of higher clocks since its only a server and not actually being used for anything other than my media for my family/friends and myself. The dual x5650 Xenon will also save a little on power costs in the long run for me as well. I have plex setup on it and my family and friends stream from it everyday even though they are now across the county since i moved from CA to FL. I guess it's a good thing that i have a 1gb fiber connection lol.

I'm running 6 3TB WD red drives (similar to your 4tb setup) i also have two raid 0 arrays. So 9tb for each Array. I dont use any extra software like Softraid, but if i had that software i would actually run it in a raid 5 setup instead, but im not paying $180 for that when I just BD-R DL burn/backup all my important stuff to my other 3tb wd red drive (external usb 3.0) which is also setup as a time machine drive for all my Mac's (5 partition's. one for each mac and one for my backup files all connected through the server using the mac osx server software).

I'm also running an sm951 256gb as my main drive which is an overkill for my server, but it'll be nice to have when i decide to start using the server as a computer later (probably if i decide to sell my 27imac) I have a second mac pro that's running two x5670's and that's my wifes computer. I choose the sm951 mostly to free up a sata 2 slot by allowing me up all 6 slots for my WD Red Drives. I also have a usb 3.0 card in my computer and the stock raiden gpu that came with the mac pro.

Since your usb 3.0 card also has Sata you can run all 6 hard drives and keep your dvd-rom or Bd-rom (if you upgraded) by using this cable. Then you run the extra power that you get from that cable to your bd-rom drive (or dvd-rom) and run a sata cord to your usb sata card.

Encase your wondering how i did this; You actually can fit two WD reds and a BD-Rom in your drive area. What you have to do is move the BD-Rom (or dvd) down 1 slot, then throw the two WD reds on top of it and it slides back in and fits. If you leave the dvd-rom on the top it wont slide back in with two 3.5in hard drives. The two drives fit when ontop of the drive because because of the aluminum bracket opening at the very top. It took me a little while to figure it out, but once i got it all together it works great.

Cant help you on the gpu question, since i dont plan to upgrade. I hope my experience helps you.

 

[madhouse123]

Actually this will work quite well. I have a similar setup with my Mac Pro Server. I'm running two x5650 instead of higher clocks since its only a server and not actually being used for anything other than my media for my family/friends and myself. The dual x5650 Xenon will also save a little on power costs in the long run for me as well. I have plex setup on it and my family and friends stream from it everyday even though they are now across the county since i moved from CA to FL. I guess it's a good thing that i have a 1gb fiber connection lol.

I'm running 6 3TB WD red drives (similar to your 4tb setup) i also have two raid 0 arrays. So 9tb for each Array. I dont use any extra software like Softraid, but if i had that software i would actually run it in a raid 5 setup instead, but im not paying $180 for that when I just BD-R DL burn/backup all my important stuff to my other 3tb wd red drive (external usb 3.0) which is also setup as a time machine drive for all my Mac's (5 partition's. one for each mac and one for my backup files all connected through the server using the mac osx server software).

I'm also running an sm951 256gb as my main drive which is an overkill for my server, but it'll be nice to have when i decide to start using the server as a computer later (probably if i decide to sell my 27imac) I have a second mac pro that's running two x5670's and that's my wifes computer. I choose the sm951 mostly to free up a sata 2 slot by allowing me up all 6 slots for my WD Red Drives. I also have a usb 3.0 card in my computer and the stock raiden gpu that came with the mac pro.

Since your usb 3.0 card also has Sata you can run all 6 hard drives and keep your dvd-rom or Bd-rom (if you upgraded) by using this cable. Then you run the extra power that you get from that cable to your bd-rom drive (or dvd-rom) and run a sata cord to your usb sata card.

Encase your wondering how i did this; You actually can fit two WD reds and a BD-Rom in your drive area. What you have to do is move the BD-Rom (or dvd) down 1 slot, then throw the two WD reds on top of it and it slides back in and fits. If you leave the dvd-rom on the top it wont slide back in with two 3.5in hard drives. The two drives fit when ontop of the drive because because of the aluminum bracket opening at the very top. It took me a little while to figure it out, but once i got it all together it works great.

Cant help you on the gpu question, since i dont plan to upgrade. I hope my experience helps you.

This is actually exactly what I would like to do! I got the OWC multimount, which I assume can handle two drives (in the top bay), and actually didn't even know I could still do a BD-ROM with the pass-through cable (so power is going to 7 total drives, 6 3.5" and 1 BD-ROM?). Any recommendations on a BD-ROM that will ensure fit/function under these circumstances (else I assume this will work)?

 

[buster84]

This is actually exactly what I would like to do! I got the OWC multimount, which I assume can handle two drives (in the top bay), and actually didn't even know I could still do a BD-ROM with the pass-through cable (so power is going to 7 total drives, 6 3.5" and 1 BD-ROM?). Any recommendations on a BD-ROM that will ensure fit/function under these circumstances (else I assume this will work)?

From looking at the multi mount photo it looks like it could work just as long as it actually allows you to mount two 3.5in hard drives on it. The photo shows a 2.5 and 3.5, but it might work with two 3.5 hard drives if the holes match up. You really dont even need this, but its upto you. I just have one wd red sitting on top of the other.

As long as you get that power cable splitter that showed you I dont see 6 drives and 1 dvd-rom causing any power problems. Our power supply is really good. The only issue might be if you add a powerful graphics card, then power could be an issue since your already using x5690's. That's just something to keep in mind later down the road.

Also as a side note your drive will only use power when its in use and im pretty sure if your burning a blu-ray your not going to play a game at the same time so i highly doubt you'll have any power issues at all.

I also found a longer version of that cable on Ebay

As for the BD-Rom you really can choose what ever you want. Any 5.25" drive will work. That drive is $50 and an older model (the one you linked) this one is newer and a little faster for a few $$ more.

If you want some really cheap BD-R media, you have to order today. Its only $16 for a 50 pack of 25gb discs I picked up a pack myself. The $10 off coupon expires today!

 

[fhturner]

Is there a difference on eBay between the $5-6 Sintech adapters like this:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Adapter-Car...2015-MacBook-Air-A1465-A1466-SSD/221780588459

and the $20+ ones like this:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/SINTECH-201...1502-A1398-SSD-PCI-e-4X-adapter-/321680448440

Turns out that first one isn't actually a Sintech (according to the eBay seller, "Hello, these are our own design and production."). Has anybody tried these? I need several, so was thinking about getting a bunch of them. Anyone see a problem with them?

Thanks,
Fred

 

[Synchro3]

Turns out that first one isn't actually a Sintech (according to the eBay seller, "Hello, these are our own design and production."). Has anybody tried these? I need several, so was thinking about getting a bunch of them. Anyone see a problem with them?

Thanks,
Fred

This is actually a new adapter for Apple PCIe SSD's.

The Syntech adapter without heat sink looks like this: https://forums.macrumors.com/attachments/img_0086-png.505951/