Sidebar Sidebar
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.

SATA Express meets the '09 Mac Pro - Bootable NGFF PCIE SSD

crjackson2134 said:
Nice! Does it work as a boot drive? If yes, what kind of boot times are you getting in OS X?

Oh, the difference in speed is likely artificial and caused because you are using different software tools in each OS.
Click to expand...
yeah i'm using it as boot drive, hm kinda hard to judge cause i was already on ssd before, but when i was using sata 2 ssd the whole user experience felt sluggish and no where near as smooth as the macs i tried it out in the apple store. however now everything feels like butter.

boot wise it is faster than sata 2 ssd, and since its a kingston package anything go wrong i know who to contact lol
 
  • Like
Reactions: crjackson2134
SomeFruitGuy said:
Issues with Sandisk 128GB/No-name adapter combo
I upgraded my rMBP Late 2013 and got a 128 GB Sandisk, which I mounted in my 2009 Mac Pro (see signature) using this adapter. (Not the Sintech as recommended in the 1. post, but it looks almost similar)

Sintech
View attachment 566772


No-name
View attachment 566773

Configuration
  1. Adapter in slot 4
  2. Gfx card in slot 1
  3. Installed 10.10.4 on the ssd
  4. Linked user to existing userfolder in 10.10.4 volume on hdd
  5. Fixed permissions using disk utility.
  6. I did also reset the NVRAM.

Problems:
  • Slow boot (grey screen persist for a while before showing the apple logo).
  • Unable to wake from sleep (black screen, fan and hdd running).
  • Cold boot loads volume on hdd instead of ssd, despite setting ssd volume as startup disk.


When setting startup disk to Yosemite volume on the hdd, loadtimes improves, the problems dissapears.
I have tried mounting the ssd in PCI-slot 1,3 and 4. (slot 2 unavailable due to the size of the gfx card). Same result.

I guess maybe the no-name adapter really isn't bootable as the ebay descrition says.

Sintech/Sandisk combo?
Does anyone have experience with Sandisk/Sintech combo, and is it bootable?
Click to expand...

I have the Sintec adaptor and a Sandisk 128gb in slot 3 .. same does not Cold Boot .. no matter what I have tried it all. I ordered 2 no name adaptors from ebay I'll see what happens with that combo.
 
donnyHowlco said:
I have the Sintec adaptor and a Sandisk 128gb in slot 3 .. same does not Cold Boot .. no matter what I have tried it all. I ordered 2 no name adaptors from ebay I'll see what happens with that combo.
Click to expand...
After some testing I unfortunately came to the same conclusion.

My test setup:
- Apple gfx card (GT120)
- Firmware 1.4 (Mac Pro 4.1)/1.5 (Mac Pro 5.1)
- No hdd mounted/hhd mounted
- Sandisk SSD (OS X 10.10.4 installed using internet recovery in rMBP) in PCIe slot 1, 2, 3 and 4.
- PCIe adaptor: No-name

No matter what, cold booting from ssd didn´t work. It either jumps to next hdd with OS X (if another OS X disk is mounted) or shows a foldericon containing a question-mark.
In any case, booting from any disk, when the ssd is mounted adds minutes to the boot-time. Even if the ssd doesn´t contain any OS, and it just contains an empty volume formatted as JHFS+.
I also experienced random unmounting (Not physically) of the sandisk ssd, when using it as a Storage drive.
Black screen when waking from sleep also occured, when OS X on the ssd was running (the system might have been unmounting the drive. Not sure).

Finally i disassembled my rMBP and tried the 256 GB SUAAX (dual boot: OS X 10.10.4/W8 EFI boot) in the no-name adapter without doing any formatting/clean install first:
Cold/warm-boot to OS X volume: SUCCES (1:45/2:15)
Cold/warm-boot W8: Nothing happens for 5 minutes. Turned off the computer by holding Powerbutton.

I can´t remember in which slot the ssd was mounted, when I tested W7 bootcamp on the hdd. IIRC It was slot 3/Apple GFX slot 1.
Cold boot: 1:09/ Warm boot (OSX to BC): 1:44.

TL;DR: Cold boot to Sandisk 128 GB doesn´t work for me. The Samsung 256GB SUAAX is ok.
 
Last edited:
A warning about Time Machine to other PCIe based SSD users on a cMP:

Make sure you check System Preferences>Time Machine>Options>’exclude these items from backup’ - OS X had auto added my SM951 to this list and had not been backing it up. This must’ve happened because the SM951 shows in the finder as an ejectable disk and Time Machine auto ignores it.

I’m posting this warning as I’ve had the SM951 installed into slot 4 as a media drive for just over a week. (E2 Accelsior in slot 2 as boot). Woke my Mac yesterday to discover a warning telling me that ‘OS X cannot repair this disk, back up files and reformat’. I couldn’t repair it and lost all files on the drive. Not sure what happened there but Flexx have agreed to replace the drive immediately (Flexx customer service is excellent).
 
Last edited:
Upgrader said:
A warning about Time Machine to other PCIe based SSD users on a cMP:

Make sure you check System Preferences>Time Machine>Options>’exclude these items from backup’ - OS X had auto added my SM951 to this list and had not been backing it up. This must’ve happened because the SM951 shows in the finder as an ejectable disk and Time Machine auto ignores it.

I’m posting this warning as I’ve had the SM951 installed into slot 4 as a media drive for just over a week. (E2 Accelsior in slot 2 as boot). Woke my Mac yesterday to discover a warning telling me that ‘OS X cannot repair this disk, back up files and reformat’. I couldn’t repair it and lost all files on the drive. Not sure what happened there but Flexx have agreed to replace the drive immediately (Flexx customer service is excellent). I can’t risk it going down again.
Click to expand...

This isn't isolated to PCIe SSD's. Anytime you add, move, or reconfigure your drives you should always check your TimeMachine configuration with care.
 
  • Like
Reactions: hfg, m4v3r1ck and Upgrader
Yeah ... all external drives, including PCI based drives, are automatically added to the "exclude" list for Time Machine. Although this is handy for external disks temporarily plugged in for file transfers which you probably don't want included in a TM backup, you need to check and remove the exclude entry for drives you add to the PCI bus and probably consider internal, but which OS X considers external.
 
I've just installed a PCIe SSD (Lycom M.2 PCIe SSD to PCIe 3.0 x4 adapter / Samsung SM951 256GB) in my Mac Pro 5,1 6 core 3.3ghz. I've erased and partitioned it (one partition) in Disk Utility and it stills shows up as an ejectable drive. Is that how it should be? I was going to transfer my system and use this as the boot drive.

I've installed it in the PCI slot next up from the bottom slot where my graphics card is. I thought this would be slot 2 but in System Information slot 2 is listed as being 'AHCI Controller' (which could be my ESATA card or my Matrox capture card while slot 3 is listed as Other Multimedia) and the specs for this say 'Link Width x4' and 'Link Speed 2.5 GT/s'

In Blackmagic speedtest I'm getting 730 write and 770 read. This could be improved on, right?
 
As an Amazon Associate, MacRumors earns a commission from qualifying purchases made through links in this post.
SoyCapitanSoyCapitan said:
I never had the slower boot in any slot with SM951. Even my triple RAID 0 SM951 experiment booted normally. Now my Evo 850 in a Sonnet Tempo also boots fast without delay. I feel sorry for people having that experience.
Click to expand...

In my system, my FASTA-6GU3 PRO seems to be the bottleneck boot/opt+boot, but I can live with it. I only reboot a few times a week or when needed whilst up-dating/grading.

#1 GTX-670 (PC)
#2 DUO x2 840 EVO SSDs
#3 8800 GT (Mac)
#4 FASTA-6GU3 PRO

Cheers
 
I have a Sintech adapter and a 1TB SSUBX in Slot-3. Over the course of 2 months its unmounted from the desktop twice now whilst saving to it.

Looking in the System information the Card is still there but the drive isn't visible in finder or disk utility. Anyone else had problems like this?

System info:
MacPro 5,1
6-core 3.46
64GB Ram

Slot1 - ATI Radeon HD 5870
Slot2 - Angelbird 512 SSD on Velocity Solo X2
Slot3 - Sintech card (version with heatsink although it doesn't fit with SSUBX installed)
Slot4 - Inateck KT4004 USB3 Card
 
pierre1610 said:
I have a Sintech adapter and a 1TB SSUBX in Slot-3. Over the course of 2 months its unmounted from the desktop twice now whilst saving to it.

Looking in the System information the Card is still there but the drive isn't visible in finder or disk utility. Anyone else had problems like this?

System info:
MacPro 5,1
6-core 3.46
64GB Ram

Slot1 - ATI Radeon HD 5870
Slot2 - Angelbird 512 SSD on Velocity Solo X2
Slot3 - Sintech card (version with heatsink although it doesn't fit with SSUBX installed)
Slot4 - Inateck KT4004 USB3 Card
Click to expand...
I have had the same problem. I experienced it twice (no-name/Apple Sandisk 128GB), but i'm not sure what causes it.

My system has been running non-stop the last couple of days without any problems (No sleep/hibernation).

I haven't saved or read anything from the drive though, as i've been holding back putting anything important on that drive. Using it as a system disk was unsuccessful for me (#1153), which originally was the goal with the ssd.
 
pierre1610 said:
I have a Sintech adapter and a 1TB SSUBX in Slot-3. Over the course of 2 months its unmounted from the desktop twice now whilst saving to it.

Looking in the System information the Card is still there but the drive isn't visible in finder or disk utility. Anyone else had problems like this?

System info:
MacPro 5,1
6-core 3.46
64GB Ram

Slot1 - ATI Radeon HD 5870
Slot2 - Angelbird 512 SSD on Velocity Solo X2
Slot3 - Sintech card (version with heatsink although it doesn't fit with SSUBX installed)
Slot4 - Inateck KT4004 USB3 Card
Click to expand...

My system isn't much different than yours. I had the Sintech/SSD in slot 3 and it ran with tremendously high trabsfer speeds but a number of small anomalies (droping from the chain wasn't one however). I found that moving it to Slot 2, and living with the lower transfer speeds resolved them all. My system looks like this now...

MacPro 5,1
6-core 3.33
48GB RAM

Slot1 - AMD Radeon HD 7970
Slot2 - Sintech/Apple SSD 512GB SSUBX
Slot3 - Solo X2 /Samsung 840 Pro 512B
Slot4 - Sonnot Allegro Pro, USB 3.0 (FrescoLogic FL1100)

With this arrangement, my system boots at lightening speed both cold and warm booting (less than 15 seconds). Drive never disappears for the boot picker (option/boot) even after NVRAM reset, ALL issues with my BT mouse went away (wouldn't have ever guessed the drive could affect the mouse but it did). I even had some issues whereby typing into the reply box of a MacRumors thread would lag and the screen would copy behind the keyboard. Using my optical drives would cause mouse lagging... Makes no since right?

Each of these issues did not originally exist but started manifesting after installing the Sintech/Apple combo. I didn't even realize the changes right away, but became slowly annoyed. Simply moving my PCIe cardss to the above configuration cured then all. I was skeptical that simply moving 2 cards could affect so many things, so I switched them back and guess what... All the symptoms returned. Reversed the cards again, and the problems went away again. I had been putting the weirdness down to OS X, but now I know it wasn't. I have an idea why this happend, but I'm not 100% sure so I'll keep my opinion out of it for now.

Try putting your SSD blade in Slot2 and the Solo X2 in slot3 and see what happens.
 
Last edited:
m4v3r1ck said:
In my system, my FASTA-6GU3 PRO seems to be the bottleneck boot/opt+boot, but I can live with it. I only reboot a few times a week or when needed whilst up-dating/grading.

#1 GTX-670 (PC)
#2 DUO x2 840 EVO SSDs
#3 8800 GT (Mac)
#4 FASTA-6GU3 PRO

Cheers
Click to expand...

I cannot confirm the FASTA-6GU3 PRO being a bottleneck. Option boot/normal boot in ~18 sec.

My configuration:
#1 GTX 770 (MVC EFI)
#2 MZ-KPV1T00/0A2 (SSUBX, first revision, link speed 5.0 GT/s)
#3 FASTA-6GU3
#4 FASTA-6GU3 PRO
 
Synchro3 said:
I cannot confirm the FASTA-6GU3 PRO being a bottleneck. Option boot/normal boot in ~18 sec.

My configuration:
#1 GTX 770 (MVC EFI)
#2 MZ-KPV1T00/0A2 (SSUBX, first revision, link speed 5.0 GT/s)
#3 FASTA-6GU3
#4 FASTA-6GU3 PRO
Click to expand...

Even using the reboot+option key bootscreen takes ~20-30 secs to show startup disks, so I presume that after installing the FASTA-6GU3 PRO - when the throttling began - it's the bad guy.:rolleyes:

Cheers
 
crjackson2134 said:
One thing you didn't mention is the size of the ssd you are looking for. If you look at post #1, it's pretty much optimized by order of size/performance. Anything smaller than 256GB is too small for me. I went with the second entry on the list - Snitech card $10, Apple/Samsung SSUBX 512GB card $340 at the time of purchase.

I can easily get 1500GB/s with this combination, but it has to be in slots 3 or 4 in my cMP 5,1 for that kind of performance. The trade off is that it boots very slow from slots 3/4 (60 seconds vs. 12 seconds).

I can easily get 12 second boot times if I place it in Slot 2. The trade off is that it only initializes at 2.5GT/s (as opposed to 5.0GT/s). So it runs at 1/2 speed for data transfers (App Launching and OS loading are just as fast though). The reality of for me is that I'm okay at 2.5GT/s in slot 2. In daily use for me, slot 2 (with really fast booting) feels just as fast as slot 3/4. I'm told by one user, that if I get a 1TB SSUBX (instead of my 512GB), then it will initialize at the full 5.0GT/s with X4 lanes and provide the fast booting as well. In other words, you can have it all, but you've got to pay, if you want to play. The 512 SSUBX I have is lightning fast as it is and boots in 12 seconds from a cold start. I'm golden for now. It's all a personal decision based on your needs. Again, what size do you need?
Click to expand...

Are these weird speed anomalies just with the Apple/Samsung cards because my 512GB SM951 works great in slot 3. Boot time is about 15 seconds. Very fast. Now, with TRIMFORCE command, I don't see a real reason to choose an Apple SSD any longer (assuming you are on 10.10.4 or later, of course).

Previously I had about 1 minute boot times, but it turns out it was because my machine was booting twice (crashing during boot and restarting) because I had two 4K displays connected to my GTX 970 (unflashed, black screen during boot but I could tell it was crashing then restarting). I am running one monitor now and it boots lickity-split.
 
dmylrea said:
Are these weird speed anomalies just with the Apple/Samsung cards because my 512GB SM951 works great in slot 3. Boot time is about 15 seconds. Very fast. Now, with TRIMFORCE command, I don't see a real reason to choose an Apple SSD any longer (assuming you are on 10.10.4 or later, of course).

Previously I had about 1 minute boot times, but it turns out it was because my machine was booting twice (crashing during boot and restarting) because I had two 4K displays connected to my GTX 970 (unflashed, black screen during boot but I could tell it was crashing then restarting). I am running one monitor now and it boots lickity-split.
Click to expand...

Yes, it's just with the Apple/Samsung SSD. The anomalies mentioned were not specifically related to the speed of the SSD. I think the booting & GT/s connection speed is all relataed to the controller and how it communicates with the cMP's PCIe implementation, but that's just a guess on my part.

The strangeness for me is how my other devices (BT Mouse, Wired Keyboard) behaved when the SSD was in Slot3. I don't really blame the SSD for this, but rather the combination of hardware as a whole. This doesn't mean that there's anything wrong or incompatible with any particular piece of hardware, just that sometimes the mix/match creates anomalies in SOME machines. EMI/RFI/Voltage and Current changes all have an effect. In my case, I THINk that moving the SSD simply changed one of those factors and eliminated interference. I was having issues even when transfering files between rotational drives, and using an opticle drive. All of this would seem to interfere with input devices. I was blaming the OS (in the back of my mind), but once I started to dig-in and investigat/test more thoroughly, I found the OS to be innocent.

At present, I'm more satisified with my machine than ever. The combination of parts installed in their current configuration couldn't be more satisifing. It's fast, very stable and has no strange behaviors.

When adding hardware, one must consider that most of these parts were never designed with cMP compatibility in mind. I see no reason to not to choose an Apple SSD as long as it's competitive in the price/performance arena. Likewise, I see no reason not to buy the non-Apple SM951. At some point I'll be upgrading this SSD to a 1TB model, and when I do, I'll consider brands. Had I known about the issues of running 1/2 speend in Slot 2, and the other issues when installed in Slot 3, I would have choose a different model or heald off altogether. That said, I'm not disappointed at the moment. The reduction in transfer speed isn't noticeable in my current use as a boot & application drive. It fact, it's never been this fast before. I would love for the slot 2 connection to provide me with 5.0GT/s and 1500MB/s transfer speed, but for my it's purely a psychological comfort. It wouldn't give me a real world advantage in my case.
 
Last edited:
crjackson2134 said:
Yes, it's just with the Apple/Samsung SSD. The anomalies mentioned were not specifically related to the speed of the SSD. I think the booting & GT/s connection speed is all relataed to the controller and how it communicates with the cMP's PCIe implementation, but that's just a guess on my part.

The strangeness for me is how my other devices (BT Mouse, Wired Keyboard) behaved when the SSD was in Slot3. I don't really blame the SSD for this, but rather the combination of hardware as a whole. This doesn't mean that there's anything wrong or incompatible with any particular piece of hardware, just that sometimes the mix/match creates anomalies in SOME machines. EMI/RFI/Voltage and Current changes all have an effect. In my case, I THINk that moving the SSD simply changed one of those factors and eliminated interference.

At present, I'm more satisified with my machine than ever. The combination of parts installed in their current configuration couldn't be more satisifing. It's fast, very stable and has no strange behaviors.

When adding hardware, one must consider that most of these parts were never designed with cMP compatibility in mind. I see no reason to not to choose an Apple SSD as long as it's competitive in the price/performance arena. Likewise, I see no reason not to buy the non-Apple SM951. At some point I'll be upgrading this SSD to a 1TB model, and when I do, I'll consider brands. Had I known about the issues of running 1/2 speend in Slot 2, and the other issues when installed in Slot 3, I would have choose a different model or heald off altogether. That said, I'm not disappointed at the moment. The reduction in transfer speed isn't noticeable in my current use as a boot & application drive. It fact, it's never been this fast before. I would love for the slot 2 connection to provide me with 5.0GT/s and 1500MB/s transfer speed, but for my it's purely a psychological comfort. It wouldn't give me a real world advantage in my case.
Click to expand...

Wasn't there an issue with video cards that ran at 2.5GT/s in slot 2 unless you removed a resistor on the card then it ran at 5.0GT/s? Would it be a similar issue here, or am I totally wrong on what I remembered about the video card fix?
 
dmylrea said:
Wasn't there an issue with video cards that ran at 2.5GT/s in slot 2 unless you removed a resistor on the card then it ran at 5.0GT/s? Would it be a similar issue here, or am I totally wrong on what I remembered about the video card fix?
Click to expand...

You're not wrong, and I have one such device. The resistor has been removed and it does get the 5.0GT/s. I don't know what the issue is, or if it's related. It's my understading that the PCIe card (Sintech) is simply a pass-through device, which seems to eliminate that hypothesis, but I really don't know. Thats a question someone else.
 
Last edited:
crjackson2134 said:
You're not wrong, and I have one such device. The resistor has been removed and it does get the 5.0GT/s. I don't know what the issue is, or if it's related. It's my understading that the PCIe card (Sintech) is simply a pass-through device, which seems to eliminat that hypothesis, but I really don't know. Thats a question someone else.
Click to expand...

It's because the SM951 firmware is looking for a PC bios/UEFI to negotiate link with in a x16 slot. It can't find the PC mobo firmware so it negotiates a minimum link (x2). In x4 slot this doesn't happen because it's a x4 SSD controller and and x4 slot therefore doesn't get confused. The negotiation is automatic.
 
SoyCapitanSoyCapitan said:
It's because the SM951 firmware is looking for a PC bios/UEFI to negotiate link with in a x16 slot. It can't find the PC mobo firmware so it negotiates a minimum link (x2). In x4 slot this doesn't happen because it's a x4 SSD controller and and x4 slot therefore doesn't get confused. The negotiation is automatic.
Click to expand...

Strange... Since mine is an Apple part, you'd think the firmware would be looking for Apple's EFI and work as expected.
 
SoyCapitanSoyCapitan said:
Apple has a custom design but the controller is the same firmware. That early prerelease version always defaults to x4.
Click to expand...

So, is there a different SSUBX that will give 4X @ 5.0GT/s in slot 2 that you know of? The thing just works like a charm in slot 2 compared to slots 3/4. It's just stuck at half speed. Otherwise it's much better in slot 2.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.
Top Bottom
Back