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SATA Express meets the '09 Mac Pro - Bootable NGFF PCIE SSD

MacVidCards said:
All I do during GPU work hours is test GPUs. Means boot after boot after boot.

PCIE SSDs have greatly increased my productivity since boot time is a huge part of that process.

I can put a faster boot drive in cMP then shipped in my nMP by around 50% faster. Nothing to sneeze at.
Click to expand...

Again, when I look into these claims they don't appear to be anything beyond a placebo, cognitive dissonance or a wrongly configured test. A cMP that boots faster than the nMP by 50% would have to load the OS into memory at over 250MB/s. If it could do that a cMP would boot from progress bar to desktop in 7-8 seconds. But the fastest I have seen OSX load on cMP is about 11-12 seconds. That time was identical on SATA2, SATA3 and my triple SM951 RAID.
 
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SoyCapitanSoyCapitan said:
Again, when I look into these claims they don't appear to be anything beyond a placebo, cognitive dissonance or a wrongly configured test. A cMP that boots faster than the nMP by 50% would have to load the OS into memory at over 250MB/s. If it could do that a cMP would boot from progress bar to desktop in 7-8 seconds. But the fastest I have seen OSX load on cMP is about 11-12 seconds. That time was identical on SATA2, SATA3 and my triple SM951 RAID.
Click to expand...

Where to start.
Hmmmmmm... Some mighty strong words there. A Raid 0 with 3x SM951? The array is limited to the max transfer the SLOWEST drive: A SM951 in slot 2 is capped at 800MB/s. Now, the performance on an array of 3 XP941's or x4 2014 Apple PCIe SSD's would be something to talk about as it would be nearing 3GBS performance. For reference, 2 XP941's can achieve 2230MB/s+.

h183_ajar.png


Everyone's workflow if different along with their perceptions. Personally I use my Mac Pro as a mac and enjoy the inherent benefits gained by an operating system that's been designed and tuned to the performance benefits of PCIe SSD's as the target platform.

Turds belong in the front yard, not in the forums.
 
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handheldgames said:
Where to start.
Hmmmmmm... Some mighty strong words there. A Raid 0 with 3x SM951? The array is limited to the max transfer the SLOWEST drive: A SM951 in slot 2 is capped at 800MB/s. Now, the performance on an array of 3 XP941's or x4 2014 Apple PCIe SSD's would be something to talk about as it would be nearing 3GBS performance. For reference, 2 XP941's can achieve 2230MB/s+.

h183_ajar.png


Everyone's workflow if different along with their perceptions. Personally I use my Mac Pro as a mac and enjoy the inherent benefits gained by an operating system that's been designed and tuned to the performance benefits of PCIe SSD's as the target platform.

Turds belong in the front yard, not in the forums.
Click to expand...

If you have been paying attention my RAID test was mentioned many times and it is on YouTube for months. Calling me a turd doesn't help your case if you're trying to prove something. I'm ignoring you and your claims for this point. And all I asked is to prove evidence that these speed increases are actually seen.
 
maflynn said:
[MOD NOTE]
I think the time has arrived to close this thread.
Click to expand...

I understand the rules and to clarify, direct inflammatory remarks belong in the font yard, not in our forum. Aside from the trolling, this thread has and continues to provide relevant information for the community.

PCIe SSD's delivered a new level of performance to the cMP that leaves the nMP in the dust. It would be a shame to loose this resource.
 
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Just installed a 512GB SM951 in a Lycom PCIe SSD to PCIe adapter in slot 3. I removed one of my two Apricorn Velocity Duo x2s and mounted the two drives in WD VelociRaptor heat-sinks and they also work as a 3.5" drive-bay converter. I removed the 80GB WD 2.5" HDDs from the heat-sink and mounted my Samsung SSDs in them, worked great. I got the VelociRaptors for less than $27.00 shipped ($13.50 ea).

My Blackmagic speed tests produced the following results:

Blade Speed.jpg


Lou
 
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Lou, did you notice any boot delay from slot 3, and are there any other anomalies such as interfering with BT/USB, or anything else?

Mine (Apple flavor) was fast but horrible in boot times & caused BT problems galore. Slot 2 fixed all my issues but now it runs at 1/2 speed.
 
^^^^Yes, I remember your long Boot Times, I did try a cold boot. Total 27 seconds, from the bong 15 seconds. As far as BT goes, I don't use it anymore, I use a Logitech wireless mouse which uses it's own wireless protocol. My other Apricorn Duo x2 is in slot 2.

I think you know why I finally gave up on BT:eek:

No issues with USB:p

Lou
 
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I'll just make an addition I wanted to earlier. The only people who see those extremely fast boot up times that are posted on YouTube from using PCIE based SSDs are those who use hibernation mode. This saves the state of the memory to a single large file on the drive which can be booted from and is the only way to saturate the bandwidth offered by the blades. It's a built in feature offered by Windows. You can activate hibernation on a Mac but I don't know about booting from it.

Everyone else is stuck at 11-12 seconds or slower if the drive initialises less quick on older systems.
 
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Since 6 weeks or so I run a PCIe/M.2/SM951 in my MP 5.1 and like many here I too have an extended boot time...cold boot before the boing can vary between 5 and 10 seconds, after the chime needs ±12 seconds to boot.
Tried slot 2 and 3 in different MP's.

I had issues with BT for a long time too, which were solved by the external antenna trick, that proved only too simple to believe. Just get the right 12" IPX cable...5 minutes and Bob's your uncle. What a difference!! Magic Trackpad, Magic mouse,...feel like they were intended too.

Thanks for all the info assembled here! :)
 
carpsafari said:
Since 6 weeks or so I run a PCIe/M.2/SM951 in my MP 5.1 and like many here I too have an extended boot time...cold boot before the boing can vary between 5 and 10 seconds, after the chime needs ±12 seconds to boot.
Tried slot 2 and 3 in different MP's.

I had issues with BT for a long time too, which were solved by the external antenna trick, that proved only too simple to believe. Just get the right 12" IPX cable...5 minutes and Bob's your uncle. What a difference!! Magic Trackpad, Magic mouse,...feel like they were intended too.

Thanks for all the info assembled here! :)
Click to expand...
Before the chime there is a RAM-test, the more RAM you have installed - the longer it takes. AFAIK this time is not affected by the SSD-speed...
 
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Phew, just finished reading this entire thread, amazing input, thank you all!

I just upgraded my 3.1 mac pro to a 5.1, 6 core 3.33Ghz machine recently and was interested in this PCIe SSD debate.
So, for a noob, may I check I have this right?

Mac Pros (3.1 2008 & 5.1 2010 models) drive bays have Sata 2, roughly 375MB/s speeds.
Sata 3 is 600 MB/s
PCIe is 1000 MB/s?

I have ordered the Sintech card and a 256GB SSUBX Apple drive (http://www.ebay.com/itm/221818389864?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT)

What kind of speeds can I expect, is the ebay listing quote of 700-900MB/s a decent ballpark figure?
If I am right in this thinking, that is roughly double the speeds I'd get from putting a normal SATA SSD in one of the drive bays of the 3.1 or 5.1 mac pro?

Thanks for your patience, my mind is a little numb from all that reading, just making sure I have this correct before pulling the trigger.

Oh, I run Pro Tools software for audio editing, would there be any advantage is running 2 x Sintechs + Apple SSUBX, one for system drive and one as an audio drive?


Cheers
 
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flowrider said:
^^^^For comparison.

1. Samsung 840 Evo in SATA Drive Bay.
2. Samsung 840 Pro on Apricorn Duo x2 PCIe Card
3. Samsung SM951 on Lycom PCIe adapter

View attachment 581522

View attachment 581523

View attachment 581524

My Machine - 5,1 Mac Pro.

Lou
Click to expand...

Incredible speeds, thanks for posting.
Is this only of real use as the system drive...ie.. Would it be worth doubling up..One Sintech card for the system and another for the audio drive, or would I be just as well using using my 2 x 1TB 7200 rpm drives? I have never used RAID, maybe that's an option for them...
 
flowrider said:
It also looks at the SATA bays before it goes to the PCIe slots looking for the StartUp Disk.
Lou
Click to expand...

I disagree. First look is to PCI-E Slot 1 (graphics card). That's why you see a screen before you boot any system volume. Second is PCI-E slot 2 and so on. Then it looks to internal SATA ports.

You can see the order in System report:
order.png
 
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hornedrum said:
Incredible speeds, thanks for posting.
Is this only of real use as the system drive...ie.. Would it be worth doubling up..One Sintech card for the system and another for the audio drive, or would I be just as well using using my 2 x 1TB 7200 rpm drives? I have never used RAID, maybe that's an option for them...
Click to expand...
Maybe you need the cutting-edge speed, but I run a recording studio (Digital Performer) on a Mac just like yours (4,1>5,1 3.33 hex) that houses five older Intel Sandforce-based SSDs (three native SATA2 and two on a $11.00 ASM1061 SATA3 card), and the system flies! Loading projects is very quick with all project files, audio files and sample sets on SSD, the DAW is super responsive, and the system has been rock solid for well over three years.

Regardless of what you go with, SAT2, 3 or PCIe, I think you're gonna' be quite pleased.
 
Demigod Mac said:
New Samsung 950 M.2 SSD that can max at 2.5 GB/s - it's NVMe though, would it not work in a Mac Pro like Intel's 750 didn't?
http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2015...nvme-with-v-nand-for-eye-popping-performance/
Click to expand...

Waste of time. The limit on PCIE 2 with x4 lanes is around 1450MB/s and if that bandwidth isn't going to be consumed in the first place then buying something faster is like a 50 year old guy with a middle age complex wasting money on a Porsche. Don't fall for these 'upgrade' traps.
 
I think it's very normal that extra hardware (PCIe card) will require more time to initialise (the time before the boot chime). Which has nothing to do with the SSD speed or RAM size.
 
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