SATA Express meets the '09 Mac Pro - Bootable NGFF PCIE SSD

[sailmac]

Thank you for your help Sailmac, I have not seen this precision in the description :-/ can stick me those it here please

Happy to help.

I didn't notice this before, but when I click the Amazon.fr link you posted it resolves to Amazon.com for me. That's probably why I see it in the description and you don't. Here is the URL where I end up

http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-SM951-512GB-Solid-MZHPV512HDGL-00000/dp/B00VELDBJ6

and the description reads

• M.2 Interface: PCIe 3.0 x4 lanes, up to 32Gb/s

• Sequential Read: 2150MB/s, Sequential Write: 1500 MB/s, Random Read (QD=4): 90K IOPS, Random Write (QD=4): 70K IOPS

• 512MB LPDDR2 DRAM Buffer Memory

• Works with most motherboards and notebooks with a compatible M.2 PCIe interface slot. Includes Z97 and X99 motherboards and pre-cylindrical Mac Pro. IMPORTANT NOTE: "NOT Compatible" with the MacBook, MacBook Air or MacBook Pro

• Supports Standard AHCI driver, APM and L1.2 Power Saving Mode, End-to-End Data Protection, Supports TRIM Command, RoHS Compliant, Halogen-Free Compliant

Now that you've got the part number you should have success finding it locally. Good luck!

 

[flowrider]

Thank you to all who participated in this thread that is very instructive, who can tell me how to tell the difference between SM951 AHCI and SM951 NVME how to differentiate them, I want to order one on Amazon but would not want to make a mistake, for my cMP 2009 and 5.1 Lycom card do you think of this one thx

http://www.amazon.fr/Samsung-SM951-...8649687&sr=8-1&keywords=samsung+sm951+m.2#Ask

Markings are attached.

First attachment is AHCI
Second is NVME

Notice MZHP vs MZVP

Lou

 

[bbdjam]

Happy to help.

I didn't notice this before, but when I click the Amazon.fr link you posted it resolves to Amazon.com for me. That's probably why I see it in the description and you don't. Here is the URL where I end up

http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-SM951-512GB-Solid-MZHPV512HDGL-00000/dp/B00VELDBJ6

and the description reads



Now that you've got the part number you should have success finding it locally. Good luck!

I passed on that information sorry :-/

Markings are attached.

First attachment is AHCI
Second is NVME

Notice MZHP vs MZVP
View attachment 602646

View attachment 602647

Lou

Many thanks again for the quick response and thank you for your pictures Lou, that helped him understand the different SM 951, I then ordered without fear now ....my mac pro tells you thank you also

 

[handheldgames]

Amfeltec Squid x16 Quad M.2/NGFF PCIe adapter

(shown with 2 M.2 SSD's - image from BareFeats)​

Space: the final frontier. These are the voyages of the 2009 Mac Pro. Its mission: to explore strange new storage technologies, to seek out new PCIe interfaces and new SSD's, to boldly go where no Mac has gone before.

Happy Thanksgiving Everyone. What a year! As a long time MacRumors member, I'd like to start off this technology overview first by thanking EVERYONE at MacRumors for their participation in discussing the adaption and adoption of PCIe SSD technology on the Classic Mac Platform.

After blowing up my '09 Mac Pro in March with a faulty PCIe PLX adapter, I'm back with some initial observations on the Amfeltec Squid Quad M.2 adapter.(SquidM2) Let's get to discussing my self-funded technology before Q pops in from the continuum and derails the episode.

Test Setup
2009 Mac Pro 32GB, i7 990x Hexacore @ 3.46Ghz
Slot 1: Flashed AMD 7950
Slot 2: Amfeltec Squid Quad M.2
M2 Slot 1: Sintech M.2 -> Apple PCIe SSD adapter -> Apple/Samsung SSUBX 512
M2 Slot 4: Samsung XP941 128GB
Slot 3: USB 3.0 Adapter
Slot 4: Sintech PCIe Apple SSD Adapter - > Samsung SSUAX 1024


SquidM2 Features

• up to 4 M.2 PCI Express SSD modules (M.2 key M)
• supports any M.2 PCI Express modules (M.2 key M)
• x4 PCI Express Gen2 connection to each M.2 circuit
• compliant with PCIe Specification 2.1
• compliant with M.2 Specification 1.0
• standard one-slot-wide half-height half-length PCI Express board
• x16 PCI Express upstream interface (Gen 2) with x16 PCIe adapter
• x8 PCI Express upstream interface (Gen 2) with x8 PCIe adapter
• x4 PCI Express upstream interface (Gen 2) with x1 PCIe adapter

Adapting Apple PCIe SSD's for the SquidM2

• Our favorite ODM Manufacturer Sintech has delivered once again with their M.2(NGFF) to x4 Apple PCIe SSD interface . Today's $10.25 adapter is available on Amazon, arriving for fast delivery with Prime.
• 
  
• M.2 device clearance on the SquidM2 is tight. Although it's been designed to hold 4 standard M-Key PCIe M.2 SSD's, it can be adapted to work with the Apple PCIe SSD interface.
• Two Apple PCIe SSD Adapters can be sandwiched to fit on the top side of the SquidM2.
• Apple-Style 1TB Blade's are huge. One per side can be supported along with a standard M.2 Device, as long as you have the proper clearance.

Mac Pro Installation

• Installing the SquidM2 in x16 PCIe slot #2.
• Clearance between the SquidM2 and my 7950 appears to be too tight to support the Apple PCIe SSD Adapters on the lower side of the board.
• Clearance on the top side of the SquidM2, between the SquidM2 with Sintech adapters and the USB 3.0 PCIe adapter is tight but workable.

Boot-up and Performance

• Unless the PRAM is zapped, the SSUBX still has the dreaded cold-boot delay.
• The SSUBX does indeed run at a x4 link and 5.0 GT/S in PCI2 slot #2.
• The M.2 -> Apple PCIe slot adapter has a red light that compliments the green light on the PCIe to Apple PCIe slot adapter.

Final Thoughts...

• I Paid $330 for my SquidM2. Bottom line, It works. It's a no-frills / adaptable / rather-industrial style device that brings 4 M.2 slots to the cMP.
• There is no other solution available on the market today that enables what Amfeltec has brought to market. My hat's off to the CEO of Amfeltec.
• Is there room for improvements in the PCB layout? Definitely. NGFF Extends well beyond small M.2 devices. I look forward to future products from Amfeltec.
• Warp speed is faster than impulse, unless were talking about OS/2.
• I never thought we would see the day when Rominator was replaced as our forum's primary Antagonist.

Happy Holiday's

 

[kennyman]

Thank you handheldgames, very informative and very detailed info as usual.

I wish the squid card was a bit larger, with some spacing in between the slots, that would have been perfect, being able to stick 4 Apple SSDs on one card

 

[handheldgames]

Thank you handheldgames, very informative and very detailed info as usual.

I wish the squid card was a bit larger, with some spacing in between the slots, that would have been perfect, being able to stick 4 Apple SSDs on one card

Thanks for the feedback.

With the proper MacGyver approach and a single width or 1.5 width graphics card, 4 adapters can fit on the SquidM2. The only card of this nature I could find was a Nvidia Quadro k4000, which is rather pokey compared to the current 970/980 series. MacVidCards may be more aware of cards in this range.

On a side note... I've been battling an obnoxious, abnormal and inconclusive something. While it's not a MR forum troll, it has many similarities. LOL. Many symptoms line up with MS, but it's not, at least for now. I know we are way over-due for a first thread update, it's on my list of things to hit before the end of the year.

 

[SamPotts]

Is it better made than the Sintech at least? I swear the brackets were made without any measurements, back of a fag packet stylee. Such a bad fit. I guess there's no performance benefit over the Sintech? The fact you can run 4 is awesome though. I have no spare slots.

 

[Phrequensi]

nvme is off the menu for the short term. achi enables boot & Mac compatibility. enjoy the upgrade!

Thank you very much.
I've dropped in the Lycom w/ SM951 512 ACHI in a 4>5,1 custom, on slot three.
Now the crazy thing is Black Magic Disk Speed Test app does't seem to know quite how to gauge it properly.
Both meters quickly glow red completely red, but the needles never go into the red.
I get a readout of approx. 60-75 MB/s W/R.
Then you see all "Formats" are checked and Speeds pretty are pretty high. LOL
Anyone else get reading like this?

 

[SoyCapitanSoyCapitan]

Thank you very much.
I've dropped in the Lycom w/ SM951 512 ACHI in a 4>5,1 custom, on slot three.
Now the crazy thing is Black Magic Disk Speed Test app does't seem to know quite how to gauge it properly.
Both meters quickly glow red completely red, but the needles never go into the red.
I get a readout of approx. 60-75 MB/s W/R.
Then you see all "Formats" are checked and Speeds pretty are pretty high. LOL
Anyone else get reading like this?

View attachment 603823

That's what the 1GB test does because it's messed up. Use the 5GB test, or even better use AJA.

 

[Phrequensi]

That's what the 1GB test does because it's messed up. Use the 5GB test, or even better use AJA.

Ahhhh! Thank you very much. Will do!

Update: You are the man! That was it! This is more like it.

Thanks again.

 

[handheldgames]

Thank you very much.
I've dropped in the Lycom w/ SM951 512 ACHI in a 4>5,1 custom, on slot three.
Now the crazy thing is Black Magic Disk Speed Test app does't seem to know quite how to gauge it properly.
Both meters quickly glow red completely red, but the needles never go into the red.
I get a readout of approx. 60-75 MB/s W/R.
Then you see all "Formats" are checked and Speeds pretty are pretty high. LOL
Anyone else get reading like this?

View attachment 603823

Have you considered Quickbench? It's my benchmark app of choice. Your numbers look correct after adjusting the settings in BlackMagic. With a 512 SSUBX on Quickbench, I'm achieving 1576.3 MB/S reads and 1574.9 MB/S Writes in Quickbench, some of the highest numbers reported for the SSUBX.


Quick bench 4.0 is one of the few benchmark apps available for OS/X that exposes small file size performance for the platform. Intech Software has been around since the PowerPC days, offering free version upgrades since 1.0 and in recent years has expanded Quickbench to the Windows x86 platform. With the holidays around the corner, why not treat yourself to a new benchmarking app and support a small developer at the same time. Platform bundles for OS/X and Windows are on-sale for a limited time at $14.99 or $24.99 for OS/X and windows.




I have no affiliation with Intech other than being a programmer and purchasing their tools.

 

[merlinmage]

What about using the Samsung 950 Pro instead of the SM951?

 

[SoyCapitanSoyCapitan]

What about using the Samsung 950 Pro instead of the SM951?

That's an NVMe device. OS X doesn't support it yet. In fact, all their implementations of universal drivers (NVME, AHCI, XHCI, UVC, Bluetooth) are partially implemented compared to Windows and even Linux. They control how much hardware peripherals and upgrades you can use as much as they can.

 

[merlinmage]

So this could change in the future, but right now the SM951 is the way to go? Thanks!

 

[bokkow]

Yep, and be careful to buy the AHCI variant not the NVMe one of the SM951. For any update on NVMe compatibility with the cMP follow this thread: https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/nvme-for-mac-pro-5-1.1919972/ IF this gets figured out at all of course..

 

[missing_tear]

Hello Everyone! I've been following this thread for a long time now and i finally just got my SSD blade and Sintech adapter in to test on my Mac Pro '09 (El Capitan). My problem is that I only seem to be getting speeds of 380-390 MB/s.

This is the exact SSD I bought. It is a March 2015 SSUBX stick. I put it into the Sintech adapter in Slot 2 at first and tested the speed which gave me this speed at 5 GB.

Then I tried putting it into Slot 3 after reading that the stick runs at half speed in slot 2. But even in Slot 3 I am still getting only 380-390 MB/s. (Slot 4 is empty) I am not sure what i am doing wrong. I zapped the PRAM already and it boots fine. But the speed is just slow. Here are some more shots of my set up. Can anyone help me?? I would be most grateful!!

 

[nisse32]

Hello Everyone! I've been following this thread for a long time now and i finally just got my SSD blade and Sintech adapter in to test on my Mac Pro '09 (El Capitan). My problem is that I only seem to be getting speeds of 380-390 MB/s. View attachment 605698

This is the exact SSD I bought. It is a March 2015 SSUBX stick. I put it into the Sintech adapter in Slot 2 at first and tested the speed which gave me this speed at 5 GB.View attachment 605699

Then I tried putting it into Slot 3 after reading that the stick runs at half speed in slot 2. But even in Slot 3 I am still getting only 380-390 MB/s. (Slot 4 is empty) I am not sure what i am doing wrong. I zapped the PRAM already and it boots fine. But the speed is just slow. Here are some more shots of my set up. Can anyone help me?? I would be most grateful!!View attachment 605703View attachment 605704

View attachment 605701

At least one problem is:
As far as I understand you only get 2-lane link speed with 500GB sticks, in order to get full, 4-lane, speed, you need to have a 1TB stick. (You can check this if you mark Generic SATA Express Controller in System Information.) 2-lane link speed will half your performance...there could be other issues as well...

 

[missing_tear]

At least one problem is:
As far as I understand you only get 2-lane link speed with 500GB sticks, in order to get full, 4-lane, speed, you need to have a 1TB stick. (You can check this if you mark Generic SATA Express Controller in System Information.) 2-lane link speed will half your performance...there could be other issues as well...

Hi! Thanks for the reply. Yes i just checked the system info and the SSD is running under the Generic SATA Express Controller. It does say it's running at 2.5 GT/s. So what should be the max speed i can expect?

 

[Synchro3]

Hi! Thanks for the reply. Yes i just checked the system info and the SSD is running under the Generic SATA Express Controller. It does say it's running at 2.5 GT/s. So what should be the max speed i can expect?

5 GT/s with four lanes.

Around 1400 MB/s if all four lanes are active. 700 MB/s with two lanes.

 

[missing_tear]

5 GT/s with four lanes.

Around 1400 MB/s if all four lanes are active. 700 MB/s with two lanes.

You know i am starting to suspect if i got the wrong sintech card? I put in my old PCI card which takes the big SSD's and it shows 5.0 GT/s Link speed in slot 2. This is the sintech card i bought is it the one everyone uses?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/321680448440?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

 

[nisse32]

Hi! Thanks for the reply. Yes i just checked the system info and the SSD is running under the Generic SATA Express Controller. It does say it's running at 2.5 GT/s. So what should be the max speed i can expect?

I have a 1TB stick and it runs at 5.0GT/s and 4x link width. Unfortunately I only have a 2014 1TB stick and those are slower than the 2015 models. With my stick I am seeing about 800/880 MB/s with Blackmagic.

 

[BombKilla]

Hi! Thanks for the reply. Yes i just checked the system info and the SSD is running under the Generic SATA Express Controller. It does say it's running at 2.5 GT/s. So what should be the max speed i can expect?

Last year with a late 2013 rMBP, 2-lane, 512GB PCIe Apple Samsung stick on Sintech adapter in my cMP 5,1, I commonly benchmarked 700-800MB/s reads and writes. I also ran a 1TB SSUAX, 655-1810(?), 4-lane module with the Sintech adapter and had no issues attaining 800-900+MB/s benchmarks in slots 2-4.
If you are getting similarly low results in PCIe slots 2 and 3 and running at 2.5 GT/s, something certainly seems to be wrong.
I was under the impression that the drive you have (655-1859) supports 4 lanes and would do so using the Sintech adapter.

 

[missing_tear]

Last year with a late 2013 rMBP, 2-lane, 512GB PCIe Apple Samsung stick on Sintech adapter in my cMP 5,1, I commonly benchmarked 700-800MB/s reads and writes. I also ran a 1TB SSUAX, 655-1810(?), 4-lane module with the Sintech adapter and had no issues attaining 800-900+MB/s benchmarks in slots 2-4.
If you are getting similarly low results in PCIe slots 2 and 3 and running at 2.5 GT/s, something certainly seems to be wrong.
I was under the impression that the drive you have (655-1859) supports 4 lanes and would do so using the Sintech adapter.

Hmm, did you guys do clean installs of the OS onto the SSD's when you made the switch? Or did you clone your old HDD? I just cloned my old HDD but its actually a clone of a clone from the original standard Mac Pro Hard Drive which was cloned to the big SSD and now to the little SSD blade. I wonder if this is causing the issues. I will try an clean install on the new blade. Hope that fixes things.

 

[BombKilla]

Hmm, did you guys do clean installs of the OS onto the SSD's when you made the switch? Or did you clone your old HDD?

I wish I could remember. I did a lot of different configurations, Backups/restorations, installs, reinstalls, tests...
I also zapped the PRAM a few times, because that's just good practice.
If you can back up your drive and start with a clean install, you can definitely confirm or refute that as a key element of your troubles. If not, you can always restore from your backup and keep looking for the cause.
If doing a clean install, I like to reformat the PCIe SSD with Disk Utility. At the same time, I prefer to perform a one-pass zero (trim/garbage) and reduce the partition size to at least 10% less than maximum (overprovisioning).
Good Luck!

 

[missing_tear]

I wish I could remember. I did a lot of different configurations, Backups/restorations, installs, reinstalls, tests...
I also zapped the PRAM a few times, because that's just good practice.
If you can back up your drive and start with a clean install, you can definitely confirm or refute that as a key element of your troubles. If not, you can always restore from your backup and keep looking for the cause.
If doing a clean install, I like to reformat the PCIe SSD with Disk Utility. At the same time, I prefer to perform a one-pass zero (trim/garbage) and reduce the partition size to at least 10% less than maximum (overprovisioning).
Good Luck!

Thanks for the advice! I'm also starting to suspect if i got a bad Sintech card. I've been getting crashes and errors for some reason when running Google Chrome. I reverted back to my old SSD and formatted the new SSD so its completely clean. It's still giving me 380 MB/s read writes, but suddenly the drive is "ejecting" all by itself.