SATA Express meets the '09 Mac Pro - Bootable NGFF PCIE SSD

[sailmac]

Okay, I'm about to feel brilliant -- or like an idiot.

We see that an SM951 attached to the Lycom DT-120 adapter and inserted into a x16 PCIe slot in a cMP fails to properly negotiate the x4 connection and operates at only half link speed = 2.5 GT/s. Move the combo to a suitable x4 slot and we see full link speed = 5.0 GT/s.

I'm wondering if the x16 slot can undergo a simple tweak to trick the SM951 into thinking the Lycom adapter is seated in a native x4 slot?

I began wondering about this after stumbling across the Amfeltec PCI Express Filler.

It is a mechanical device simply to stabilize longer cards. Obviously it won't do the trick.

But it made me wonder if maybe there exists a "filler" or "isolator" that can dupe a x16 slot into behaving electrically like a native x4 slot? Some way that a line of goldfingers can isolate the first 4 lanes from the other 12?

I know technically that shouldn't be necessary because x4 cards are supposed to work just fine in x8 and x16 slots, but for the sake of workaround it would be interesting especially if it were inexpensive and reliable.

If such a thing even exists, I imagine it's marketed for test/debug. I started looking but haven't found anything.

Thought I'd toss up the idea and see if anyone can help run with it (or put it out of my misery!)

 

[nigelbb]

Thanks SoyCapitanSoyCapitan. That's even more disappointing. So basically this is as good as it gets on a 3,1 ?

I have 2 x 1TB Evo 950s in RAID 0 on an Apricorn Velocity Duo in slot 2 of my 2008 Mac Pro 3,1 & get about 650MB/s read & a little less in write. I was contemplating getting a Lycom card & SM951 but it looks like I wouldn't gain much better performance.

 

[Starflyer]

Thanks to everyone involved that has made this thread such a valuable resource. I have read this thread what feels like 1000 times. and below is what I am about to purchase for my 2010 cMP. From what I understand these are compatible, bootable and I can expect R/W speeds ~1500MB/s.

SINTECH 2013-2014 MacBook Air A1465 A1466 +Pro A1502 A1398 SSD PCI-e 4X adapter
http://www.ebay.com/itm/SINTECH-201...448440?hash=item4ae5a61bb8:g:K6AAAOSwVFlUKrvf

Apple 512GB SSD MZ-JPV5120/0A4 MacBook Pro AIR Retina 655-1859 SSUBX 2015 MODEL
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Apple-512GB...765854?hash=item1a0b2ecb9e:g:NeAAAOSw-zxWoXp-

Is there any other adapter I can purchase without having to wait for it to come from China. Thanks in advance!

 

[prvt.donut]

Why buy that MacBook Air SSD for $500 off eBay when you can buy a faster and cheaper Samsung 950 with full warranty from Amazon for about $300
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B01639694M/ref=ox_sc_act_image_2?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER

There are loads of adapters on Amazon too with 2 day free shipping if you have prime.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00M..._UL100_SR100,100_&refRID=RS8JDPJ9687F7HZCG6N5

 

[Starflyer]

Why buy that MacBook Air SSD for $500 off eBay when you can buy a faster and cheaper Samsung 950 with full warranty from Amazon for about $300
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B01639694M/ref=ox_sc_act_image_2?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER

There are loads of adapters on Amazon too with 2 day free shipping if you have prime.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00MYCQP38/ref=pd_aw_sim_147_1?ie=UTF8&dpID=41ui-dV0KoL&dpSrc=sims&preST=_AC_UL100_SR100,100_&refRID=RS8JDPJ9687F7HZCG6N5

Thanks for the reply. Is this bootable?

 

[prvt.donut]

Thanks for the reply. Is this bootable?

Yes, 3rd review down

 

[Starflyer]

Yes, 3rd review down

I was referring to the Samsung 950 Pro. I got this from the Apple Support Forum:

NVME supposedly will not work as a boot drive on the MacPro5,1! Apparently, there are EFI bios issues that interfere with using an NVME protocol SSD as a startup drive

Has this been resolved?

 

[DEMinSoCAL]

Thanks to everyone involved that has made this thread such a valuable resource. I have read this thread what feels like 1000 times. and below is what I am about to purchase for my 2010 cMP. From what I understand these are compatible, bootable and I can expect R/W speeds ~1500MB/s.

SINTECH 2013-2014 MacBook Air A1465 A1466 +Pro A1502 A1398 SSD PCI-e 4X adapter
http://www.ebay.com/itm/SINTECH-201...448440?hash=item4ae5a61bb8:g:K6AAAOSwVFlUKrvf

Apple 512GB SSD MZ-JPV5120/0A4 MacBook Pro AIR Retina 655-1859 SSUBX 2015 MODEL
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Apple-512GB...765854?hash=item1a0b2ecb9e:g:NeAAAOSw-zxWoXp-

Is there any other adapter I can purchase without having to wait for it to come from China. Thanks in advance!

Just curious what it was that, after having read this thread "what feels like 1000 times" that made you think the more expensive Apple SSD was the better choice instead of the cheaper Samsung SM951 SSD?

You now have native TRIM using a Samsung with Yosemite and El Capitan. Can't think of a reason to spend more on the Apple SSD.

 

[Starflyer]

Just curious what it was that, after having read this thread "what feels like 1000 times" that made you think the more expensive Apple SSD was the better choice instead of the cheaper Samsung SM951 SSD?

You now have native TRIM using a Samsung with Yosemite and El Capitan. Can't think of a reason to spend more on the Apple SSD.

My irrational fear that at some point Apple will disable native TRIM for 3rd party drives again sometime in the future.

 

[DEMinSoCAL]

I was referring to the Samsung 950 Pro. I got this from the Apple Support Forum:

NVME supposedly will not work as a boot drive on the MacPro5,1! Apparently, there are EFI bios issues that interfere with using an NVME protocol SSD as a startup drive

Has this been resolved?

It's my understanding that NVME will not boot in a cMP..Only AHCI-based SSD's.

 

[<!DOCTYPE>]

Thanks again Thomas.

I ordered a 512GB SM951 and additional ram which will bring my total ram to 56GB when installed in my Mac Pro 3,1.

Do you recommend I partition the 512GB SM951 and if so, how much should I give to Photoshop. I regularly work on files that are 2-3 GB.

Also what is your impression of the card that Lucas Godfrey got on ebay.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/321946526574.

Thanks for that link Lucas

eos1x,

Did you get the card from eBay? I was thinking of getting this card as well.

 

[AlexMaximus]

^^^^^Nope, they feel and score the same. I still have my Lycom card if your interested.

Lou

I just received my PX1 card as well. Now there is one question left for the experts.
Samsung will introduce new and larger SSD's in early 2016. Besides a 4TB SATA, there will be also a 850 Evo M.2 with 1TB in size.

Will this new and larger 1TB SSD fit in the PX1 or Lycom card, or will be 850Evo M.2 "NVM only" ?

I would love to have a 1TB drive in the PX1 card, - would you wait or just go with a regular SM951 512GB ACHI ??

Thanks

 

[flowrider]

^^^^According to Newegg the specs for the 850 Evo M2 and the SM951 are quite different.

EVO:

SM951:

Lou

 

[jakexjustice]

Okay, so I am in desperate need of someone's help on this thread preferably @handheldgames, because he seems to be increasingly knowledgable about the PCIe storage in Macbook Pros but any help at this point will be sufficient.

I recently just purchased the Mid-2015 15.4 inch Retina Macbook Pro 2.2ghz turbo-boost 16gb Ram i7 with 256gb PCIe flash storage. I am very interested in updating the 256gb PCIe flash storage to a 1tb solution. I have been scourging eBay, OWC, amazon, etc. for something that is "cheap," but I have come to the conclusion that I will be paying $700-$1100 for this 1tb PCIe solution (hopefully a little less with turning around selling the 256gb I already have).

Apple support has told me that they do not offer upgrades, and when I asked them what the model number of the PCIe flash storage are they, and I quote, said "we cannot tell you the model numbers of the internal PCIe flash storage drives because we do not condone user upgrades). They proceeded to redirect me to a third-party upgrade/repair shop in West Texas but none of them have been able to answer my question specifically, and after a plethora of research on the web this thread seems to be the ONLY source of reputable knowledge.

I recently took the back cover off of my MBP to find that the model number for my 256gb PCIe is:
MZ-JPV2560/0A4

I am curious as to what is the model number for the BEST (fastest/read/write speed) 1tb PCIe solution for the Mid-2015 Macbook Pro 15.4" Retina. I understand that my model supports 4-lane, I don't know what that means specifically but I know that it must have something to do with speeds as the 2013/2014 models are not four lane?

More specifically what is the model number for the 1tb PCIe flash storage for Mid-2015 15.4 inch Macbook Pro 2.5ghz i7 with 16gb ram?

MY BIGGEST CONCERN IS I DO NOT WANT AN OUT-DATED 1TB SOLUTION THAT "MIGHT," WORK FOR MY MACBOOK PRO so I DO NOT WANT A 2013/2014 1tb PCIe, or the early 2015 1tb PCIe. I want to know the model number specifically for the MID-2015 RETINA 15.4 INCH 1TB PCIe flash storage.


From what I have gathered I understand there is the:
- Samsung MZ-KPV1T00 / 0A4-0A8 (which I think is the newest one, but I can't tell if I need the 0A4 or the 0A5, 0A6, 0A7, 0A8 nor do I know what the 0A sequence means in the model number)

-Samsung MZ-KPU1TOT / 0A6 (which I believe is the older model)


I have been told that the the T00 is twice as fast as the T0T can anyone confirm this? Will one model burn my computer up (this used MID-2015 is not covered with Apple Care and I just sold my 2011 so I am worried about losing a lot of money)


Any reply would be greatly appreciate, I cannot believe I cannot find any distributor or get Apple to answer this question sufficiently... Thanks in advance.

 

[MacVidCards]

If Apple hasn't changed the form factor or connection, then the answers you need are already here.

 

[jakexjustice]

If Apple hasn't changed the form factor or connection, then the answers you need are already here.

NOT THE ANSWER I'M LOOKING FOR. THANKS ANYWAY.

 

[bokkow]

Jake, there seems to be an issue with your capslock key man, it switches on and off at random, maybe you can look into that.

Considering you are in the wrong subforum with your question, even with such a long and clear post, I went ahead and googled around a bit. As far as I could google, I found that MZ-KPU1TOT is supported in mid 2015 MBPr 15", so my suggestion would be to go with that. Would not be surprised if Apple used this exact type for their BTO MBPr mid 2015 as well as the BTO nMP 2013.

Cheers

 

[ElBerserko]

Thanks again Sailmac.

So in the case of the 3,1 the SM951 is currently inferior to the XP941?

Wish I had know that before i purchased it. Do you think a firmware update could rectify this situation? I'm surprised this hasn't come up in all the glowing reviews I read.

Is this cMac specific or is it fair to say it is more than a quirk and is actually a flaw in the firmware design relative to the XP941.

The options that are available such as XP941, SM951, Amalfec adapted etc are plenty fast for even best use cases. It's the CPU that hold back 'modern performance' levels.

Thanks to the details in this thread I ordered a XP941 instead of the SM951 for my Early 2008 Mac Pro. I just installed the XP941 in a Lycom card in slot 2 (Link speed for the card shows at 5.0 GT/s) and I am getting about 1003MB/s Write, 1090MB/s read. This seems to be the best option for the 3,1 unless someone figures out a cost effective solution to get the SM951 to negotiate properly in the x16 slot of the 2008 MP.

 

[hugomac]

Hi guys,
this has probably been answered somewhere else on this forum but i simply don't have the time to read that many pages but i have a Kingston Hyper X predator 256 Gb pcie SSD card in my 2009 Mac Pro 5,1 with El Capitan installed and cant boot into my Windows 10 installed on a SSD connected in Bay 1 with the card installed, as soon as i remove it i can boot no problems. I'm currently looking into either getting a Apricorn Velocity Duo x 2 and buying another SSD to raid 0 and install Windows 120 on that but with the Hyper X car installed will that boot?? Or better still buying a Lycom DT-120 and a new samsung M.2 256Gb and installing Windows 10 on that but with the other Kingston Hyper X card with OS X card installed would that boot into Windows 10?? Surely someone else has been through all this before. I've heard the Apricorn Velocity Duo x 2 will boot with another PCIE SSD card installed but will be the slower option.
Would really appreciate any advise as i have googled this problem for weeks now with no solution other than modify the EFI.
Cheers

 

[Raunien]

Hello everyone,

I'm a little late to the party. But can anyone explain the benefit of an apple SSUBX vs a SM951?

Any difference in performance, read/write speeds, boot up times, pci slot compatability?

 

[666sheep]

Capacity only. No other real benefits.

 

[A Hobo]

Hello everyone,

I'm a little late to the party. But can anyone explain the benefit of an apple SSUBX vs a SM951?

Any difference in performance, read/write speeds, boot up times, pci slot compatability?

native trim, but otherwise none. apple part costs more.

 

[h9826790]

native trim, but otherwise none. apple part costs more.

You mean native TRIM without terminal command, right? I think both can enjoy native TRIM now in current OSX.

 

[A Hobo]

You mean native TRIM without terminal command, right? I think both can enjoy native TRIM now in current OSX.

yeah thats what I meant, joe bloggs is not going to know how to run that command.
The apple SSD has it natively.
[doublepost=1454949085][/doublepost]

Okay, so I am in desperate need of someone's help on this thread preferably @handheldgames, because he seems to be increasingly knowledgable about the PCIe storage in Macbook Pros but any help at this point will be sufficient.

I recently just purchased the Mid-2015 15.4 inch Retina Macbook Pro 2.2ghz turbo-boost 16gb Ram i7 with 256gb PCIe flash storage. I am very interested in updating the 256gb PCIe flash storage to a 1tb solution. I have been scourging eBay, OWC, amazon, etc. for something that is "cheap," but I have come to the conclusion that I will be paying $700-$1100 for this 1tb PCIe solution (hopefully a little less with turning around selling the 256gb I already have).

Apple support has told me that they do not offer upgrades, and when I asked them what the model number of the PCIe flash storage are they, and I quote, said "we cannot tell you the model numbers of the internal PCIe flash storage drives because we do not condone user upgrades). They proceeded to redirect me to a third-party upgrade/repair shop in West Texas but none of them have been able to answer my question specifically, and after a plethora of research on the web this thread seems to be the ONLY source of reputable knowledge.

I recently took the back cover off of my MBP to find that the model number for my 256gb PCIe is:
MZ-JPV2560/0A4

I am curious as to what is the model number for the BEST (fastest/read/write speed) 1tb PCIe solution for the Mid-2015 Macbook Pro 15.4" Retina. I understand that my model supports 4-lane, I don't know what that means specifically but I know that it must have something to do with speeds as the 2013/2014 models are not four lane?

More specifically what is the model number for the 1tb PCIe flash storage for Mid-2015 15.4 inch Macbook Pro 2.5ghz i7 with 16gb ram?

MY BIGGEST CONCERN IS I DO NOT WANT AN OUT-DATED 1TB SOLUTION THAT "MIGHT," WORK FOR MY MACBOOK PRO so I DO NOT WANT A 2013/2014 1tb PCIe, or the early 2015 1tb PCIe. I want to know the model number specifically for the MID-2015 RETINA 15.4 INCH 1TB PCIe flash storage.


From what I have gathered I understand there is the:
- Samsung MZ-KPV1T00 / 0A4-0A8 (which I think is the newest one, but I can't tell if I need the 0A4 or the 0A5, 0A6, 0A7, 0A8 nor do I know what the 0A sequence means in the model number)

-Samsung MZ-KPU1TOT / 0A6 (which I believe is the older model)


I have been told that the the T00 is twice as fast as the T0T can anyone confirm this? Will one model burn my computer up (this used MID-2015 is not covered with Apple Care and I just sold my 2011 so I am worried about losing a lot of money)


Any reply would be greatly appreciate, I cannot believe I cannot find any distributor or get Apple to answer this question sufficiently... Thanks in advance.

YOU NEED MZ-KPV1T00/0A4

SORRY CAPS LOCK IS ON.

 

[GregoryOrme]

Yes, the only adapter I know at the moment that negotiate's the speed properly in the x16 slot 2 is the Amfeltec PCI card, which I have. I have a SM951 in all 4 slots on that card and they all read at full speed independently.

Its pricey, but a great solution to use multiple x4 SM951s on one PCI slot.

PowerMike, I have a few questions just for my own clarification.

Is your rig set up like the Barefeats test at http://barefeats.com/hard210.html?

When you say "negotiates the speed properly," do you mean that you can get 5000+ Mb/s in RAID or what do you mean by "full speed independently"?

Do the SM951 blades fit directly into the Amfeltec card or is some other adapter needed?

When you say "pricey," what are we talking? Obviously, the SM951 528GB alone is a few hundred bucks, but presuming I have four of those lying around, what more would it cost?

Thank you for your patience.