Sidebar Sidebar
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.

SATA Express meets the '09 Mac Pro - Bootable NGFF PCIE SSD

Maybe you guys can help me. I set up my 2009 Mac Pro 4,1 for SSD according to all directions here in April last year. I haven't had time to troubleshoot this and have just been living with it but I'm sick of it. I'll tell you what's happening and the SSD's, slots and adapters.

My boot SSD (512g with 402g available) is very fast on startup and stays that way for about 30 minutes. Then everything starts progressively slowing down after 1-3 hours (switching apps, speed in apps, animations like 'show desktop' etc.) and eventually I have to log out/in to get the speed back. Problem is it takes at least 5-10 MINUTES to log out, from apps quit and screens going black until full logout. The longer it's running from bootup, the longer the log out time is (or reboot, or shutdown). This isn't the case at all when I boot and run from HDD.

Sounds like RAM but it isn't. Doesn't happen at all when booting and running from HDD, and it started happening the day I made this change to SSD. I consistently have around 10g ram available. Sometimes it drops to 4g. The slowing has been the same from day one regardless of the slot I choose. I've had it in slot 4, 3 and 2. Same thing in every slot. The samsung is apple out of macbook air 2013 2014 I believe and has native trimming so I've never turned trimming on.

OS is 10.10.5, 16 gig memory
SSD is Samsung MZ-JPU512T/OA6 with 4 chips K9PHGY857C-XCK0
Still being sold on eBay http://www.ebay.com/itm/Apple-SSD-S...na-late-2013-14-MZ-JPU512T-0A6-/111606798313?

Adapter is the one everyone is using, it says
"Mac Pro ME 253 MD878 SSD to PCI-E X4, Model N-2013 Version 1.0."

Thanks in advance for any help!
 
nigelbb said:
They don't seem to sell a bare adapter just ones already loaded with SM951s. Does anyone have a link where I can purchase one of these Amfeltec Squid cards without SSD (preferably in the UK)?
Click to expand...

Acording to Amfeltec the SKU for ordering just the carrier is SKU-086-01, and per this the cost they gave with shipping into U.S. was $300. You can contact them to get a quote for delivery into U.K. The company is headquartered in Canada.
 
Hello,

I am looking for a M.2 extender card, ribbon type is better, but I cannot find anything online. Anyone has any idea where I can buy one? many thanks

Anyone?
 
Last edited:
Anyone have insights for my question at the top of page 63? All hardware is described in that post.

I just finished 4 hours work, computer began bogging down the last two hours -- plenty of ram -- so I logged out to get it fast again like I've done for 10 months. Logout took 4 minutes. Can anyone help me on this. Again, all details at top of page 63. Thanks!
 
soloact said:
Anyone have insights for my question at the top of page 63? All hardware is described in that post.

I just finished 4 hours work, computer began bogging down the last two hours -- plenty of ram -- so I logged out to get it fast again like I've done for 10 months. Logout took 4 minutes. Can anyone help me on this. Again, all details at top of page 63. Thanks!
Click to expand...

If it isn't ram-related maybe it is CPU-related. Review Activity Monitor for processes that are monopolizing either CPU or memory when that is happening. Also, do you see this behavior if you clone your boot drive to a different disk and boot from it?
 
soloact said:
Anyone have insights for my question at the top of page 63? All hardware is described in that post.

I just finished 4 hours work, computer began bogging down the last two hours -- plenty of ram -- so I logged out to get it fast again like I've done for 10 months. Logout took 4 minutes. Can anyone help me on this. Again, all details at top of page 63. Thanks!
Click to expand...

Agree with @flehman's advice. In particular keep an eye on WindowServer. Your processes overall may not be taking much Real Memory, but something may be causing WindowServer to consume an unusual amount of Real Memory quickly and abnormally. Keep Activity Monitor in view and if you pay close attention to what you are doing just before WindowServer gets bloated you might identify the offending process.

I've seen WindowServer jump from ~ 250 MB Real Memory to 5 GB shortly after opening a few small spreadsheets in LibreOffice. On a machine with 32 GB RAM it shouldn't be a problem, but the spinning beach balls were fierce and made it seem like other programs were the culprit. I'd quit LibreOffice, WindowServer shrank back to normal, and everything was fine. Somehow the bloated WindowServer was becoming a bottleneck for other processes.

Obviously your problem could be something else, but this is a relatively easy one to look for.
 
flehman said:
If it isn't ram-related maybe it is CPU-related. Review Activity Monitor for processes that are monopolizing either CPU or memory when that is happening. Also, do you see this behavior if you clone your boot drive to a different disk and boot from it?
Click to expand...

Thanks!
behavior only happens on SSD, not on HDD, and only began when I moved to SSD. I have a cloned backup of the SSD on a HDD. I will watch activity monitor per @salimac advice. And if needed I can operate on the cloned HDD backup for testing purposes.

Point is this never happened on HDD in history of my using any Mac including this 4,1 MP. It started the day I moved to SSD. I did that move from scratch. I installed only software I use most, same as was on HDD minus a bunch of apps. The only thing that changed was the hardware really.

Keep ideas coming! I'll work with current suggestions and report back.
 
So, let me get this straight.. I have a Mac Pro 5,1, so what I need is the Lycom DT-120, and an AHCI version of the Samsung XP951, the 512 GB version being the preferred model, and that's it, right? Just run Disk Utility after boot and wipe and format?

http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-SM951...TF8&qid=1455057304&sr=8-2&keywords=sm951+ahci

Thought there was some inherent delay in booting from a PCIe card (there seems to be one with my Velocity Solo X2 and Samsung 840) will this suffer the same slight delay?
 
As an Amazon Associate, MacRumors earns a commission from qualifying purchases made through links in this post.
Reporting back for sailmac below. I worked more hours until the system slowed down again and did a screen shot before logging out. Available RAM at that moment was 10.87g with processors not under any appreciable load (look at the running apps, no processor hogs there.) Also you can see windows sever memory consumption.

Logout took between 5 and 6 minutes, and that kernel task was back after login and everything is fast again so it's not the 1.34g kernel task. I wish we could track this down more. I'll clone my current SSD state to HDD and run the rest of the night from the HDD clone and see if it happens on the HDD.

Ideas and insights welcome!

24302023673_e65649c2f4_o.png


sailmac said:
Agree with @flehman's advice. In particular keep an eye on WindowServer. Your processes overall may not be taking much Real Memory, but something may be causing WindowServer to consume an unusual amount of Real Memory quickly and abnormally. Keep Activity Monitor in view and if you pay close attention to what you are doing just before WindowServer gets bloated you might identify the offending process.

I've seen WindowServer jump from ~ 250 MB Real Memory to 5 GB shortly after opening a few small spreadsheets in LibreOffice. On a machine with 32 GB RAM it shouldn't be a problem, but the spinning beach balls were fierce and made it seem like other programs were the culprit. I'd quit LibreOffice, WindowServer shrank back to normal, and everything was fine. Somehow the bloated WindowServer was becoming a bottleneck for other processes.

Obviously your problem could be something else, but this is a relatively easy one to look for.
Click to expand...
 
soloact said:
Reporting back for sailmac below. I worked more hours until the system slowed down again and did a screen shot before logging out. Available RAM at that moment was 10.87g with processors not under any appreciable load (look at the running apps, no processor hogs there.) Also you can see windows sever memory consumption.

Logout took between 5 and 6 minutes, and that kernel task was back after login and everything is fast again so it's not the 1.34g kernel task. I wish we could track this down more. I'll clone my current SSD state to HDD and run the rest of the night from the HDD clone and see if it happens on the HDD.

Ideas and insights welcome!
Click to expand...

Right, well at least that is one suspect eliminated.

Keep an eye on CPU Time. You should expect processes like kernel_task and mds to build CPU Time steadily. Most processes build up time intermittently, but perhaps you have process that is abnormally busy without chewing up RAM nor straining CPU.

Also consider monitoring temperature stats. Perhaps after running for awhile something is getting too hot and you've got a thermal problem --- maybe specifically the new SSD. It would help if you could try your SSD in a different machine, or a different SSD in your machine. That would help isolate whether it's your PCIe setup or something else. Also, maybe the Samsung chips are fine but your adapter is a thermal dud.

Presumably you don't have a build-up of dust and fur inside your machine!
 
@ soloact

Evidently there is a problem with your PCI-SSD card. Could be the PCI-connectors in the machine

My propositions:

1) install MacFanControl to have a look at SSD-temperatures before and during performance problems.

2) install and run Etrecheck using the "Low performance" (= slow) check.
before and during performance problems.

3) install and run AJA SSD performance test using the hardest test (16GB file) before and during performance problems.

Do you have Trim enabled? Do you use TrimEnabler´s version for OSX 10.10 (Disk Sensei)?
 
Last edited:
GregoryOrme said:
PowerMike, I have a few questions just for my own clarification.

Is your rig set up like the Barefeats test at http://barefeats.com/hard210.html?

When you say "negotiates the speed properly," do you mean that you can get 5000+ Mb/s in RAID or what do you mean by "full speed independently"?

Do the SM951 blades fit directly into the Amfeltec card or is some other adapter needed?

When you say "pricey," what are we talking? Obviously, the SM951 528GB alone is a few hundred bucks, but presuming I have four of those lying around, what more would it cost?

Thank you for your patience.
Click to expand...

Yes, I have the same setup as in the Barefeats test. The difference for me is I am using one SSD blade as my boot drive and the other 3 in a RAID 0 as a media/scratch drive for video editing.

When I say "negotiates the speed properly", it is the only card I am aware of that runs the SM951 at full x4 lane speed in the x16 slot. If you try using another card, like the Lycom DT-120, it only runs at x2 lane speed in the x16 slot for whatever reason. This can be solved by running it in slots 3 or 4. But the Amfeltec card is unique in that it runs every SSD blade on it at the full x4 speed in the x16 slot. Which means you are utilizing every lane in the x16 slot with the full use of this card, which is maximizing the potential usage.

The blades do fit directly into the card, no adapter needed.

The card itself is about $330, shipping included. And you spend roughly the same amount for each 512GB SM951, so as a whole it's pricey. But if you are a working professional who would benefit from his setup, it is worth it. I was dealing with the issue of using all the PCIE slots, so this was a welcome solution to get both my boot volume and media read/scratch volume running off one PCIE slot, while still allowing me to use my AJA Video card and USB 3.0 card as well.

Hope this helps.
 
  • Like
Reactions: GregoryOrme
jakexjustice said:
Okay, so I am in desperate need of someone's help on this thread preferably @handheldgames, because he seems to be increasingly knowledgable about the PCIe storage in Macbook Pros but any help at this point will be sufficient.

I recently just purchased the Mid-2015 15.4 inch Retina Macbook Pro 2.2ghz turbo-boost 16gb Ram i7 with 256gb PCIe flash storage. I am very interested in updating the 256gb PCIe flash storage to a 1tb solution. I have been scourging eBay, OWC, amazon, etc. for something that is "cheap," but I have come to the conclusion that I will be paying $700-$1100 for this 1tb PCIe solution (hopefully a little less with turning around selling the 256gb I already have).

Apple support has told me that they do not offer upgrades, and when I asked them what the model number of the PCIe flash storage are they, and I quote, said "we cannot tell you the model numbers of the internal PCIe flash storage drives because we do not condone user upgrades). They proceeded to redirect me to a third-party upgrade/repair shop in West Texas but none of them have been able to answer my question specifically, and after a plethora of research on the web this thread seems to be the ONLY source of reputable knowledge.

I recently took the back cover off of my MBP to find that the model number for my 256gb PCIe is:
MZ-JPV2560/0A4

I am curious as to what is the model number for the BEST (fastest/read/write speed) 1tb PCIe solution for the Mid-2015 Macbook Pro 15.4" Retina. I understand that my model supports 4-lane, I don't know what that means specifically but I know that it must have something to do with speeds as the 2013/2014 models are not four lane?

More specifically what is the model number for the 1tb PCIe flash storage for Mid-2015 15.4 inch Macbook Pro 2.5ghz i7 with 16gb ram?

MY BIGGEST CONCERN IS I DO NOT WANT AN OUT-DATED 1TB SOLUTION THAT "MIGHT," WORK FOR MY MACBOOK PRO so I DO NOT WANT A 2013/2014 1tb PCIe, or the early 2015 1tb PCIe. I want to know the model number specifically for the MID-2015 RETINA 15.4 INCH 1TB PCIe flash storage.


From what I have gathered I understand there is the:
- Samsung MZ-KPV1T00 / 0A4-0A8 (which I think is the newest one, but I can't tell if I need the 0A4 or the 0A5, 0A6, 0A7, 0A8 nor do I know what the 0A sequence means in the model number)

-Samsung MZ-KPU1TOT / 0A6 (which I believe is the older model)


I have been told that the the T00 is twice as fast as the T0T can anyone confirm this? Will one model burn my computer up (this used MID-2015 is not covered with Apple Care and I just sold my 2011 so I am worried about losing a lot of money)


Any reply would be greatly appreciate, I cannot believe I cannot find any distributor or get Apple to answer this question sufficiently... Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...

You should make shure you get the SSUBX version SSD that was introduced with the mid 2015 Mac Book Pro. Earlier versions are named SSUAX and are slower. (Read more about this in the first post in this thread.) SSUBX should be printed on the memory card. In your case there is the added benefit of speed. Your old SSD size only supports 2-lane PCI but the 1TB supports 4-lane so you will get almost 100% more speed with the new 1TB SSD. These SSDs are expensive (about 1000USD) but are the fastest and best you can buy for your machine.

(I personally upgraded my 2013 MBP from 2-lane SSUAX 512MB to 2015 4-lane SSUBX 1TB and got almost 4x higher speed...)
 
sailmac said:
Keep an eye on CPU Time. You should expect processes like kernel_task and mds to build CPU Time steadily. Most processes build up time intermittently, but perhaps you have process that is abnormally busy without chewing up RAM nor straining CPU.

Also consider monitoring temperature stats. Perhaps after running for awhile something is getting too hot and you've got a thermal problem --- maybe specifically the new SSD. It would help if you could try your SSD in a different machine, or a different SSD in your machine. That would help isolate whether it's your PCIe setup or something else. Also, maybe the Samsung chips are fine but your adapter is a thermal dud.
Presumably you don't have a build-up of dust and fur inside your machine!
Click to expand...
Thanks! - More progress:
  • Slow logout - This also happening with a clone of the SSD on a HDD. Must be the way the OS is setup. I have little snitch. That might be screwing with logout (wouldn't be first time that app interfered with something LOL). That said logout still takes longer the longer the machine runs. I'll turn off little snitch before logout a couple times today and see if anything changes.
  • Slow "performance" - I found one culprit: Bluetooth. Keyboard starts to fall behind as does magic trackpad, feels and looks like slower performance. But it's actually bluetooth strength dipping or cutting out. Turns out that's a problem with MP 4,1 and earlier. There are two fixes: modding antenna and disconnecting internal BT card and using a USB BT adapter. I'll do both and see what works best. Until then I'm using my wired apple keyboard.
  • Temperature - I grabbed a temp sensor and monitored while booted to the HDD clone. No temp issues anywhere - no buildup of dust. Just a few bits of fur. I'm off HDD clone and back on SSD. I'll monitor temps.
  • PCI connector - I have two connector cards. One for 512 and one for 1tb. I swapped SDDs between the cards last May didn't notice any difference.
  • Trim enable - the SSDs show in systems report and temp report as Apple SSD, and they are, pulled from late 2013, early 2014 13" macbook air. They should be trim enabled. I haven't turned on OS 10.10.5 trim enable. Let me know if I should.
MrAverigeUser said:
@ soloact
Evidently there is a problem with your PCI-SSD card. Could be the PCI-connectors in the machine
My propositions:
1) install MacFanControl to have a look at SSD-temperatures before and during performance problems.
2) install and run Etrecheck using the "Low performance" (= slow) check.
before and during performance problems.
3) install and run AJA SSD performance test using the hardest test (16GB file) before and during performance problems.
Do you have Trim enabled? Do you use TrimEnabler´s version for OSX 10.10 (Disk Sensei)?
Click to expand...
MrAverigeUser said:
I'm working through it. The long logout problem is also happening on the clone of the SSD on a HDD.
Click to expand...
 
Progress report for @sailmac and @MrAverigeUser
I did recommended monitoring and more research.

Temperature -- Not an issue. Work I'm doing doesn't hammer the SSD. It's around 95-97 degrees F as I work.
Memory -- Not an issue. Memory pressure is low all the time.
Slow Performance -- Still working this. I think it intermittent bluetooth and too many open windows for stock graphics card to animate quickly on mission control swipe. I'll keep monitoring

Slow logout -- This continues like clockwork. I've been using Console app to monitor. The item below shows up consistently on every slow logout. It's about the last item before logout delay which can be up to 6 minutes. I don't know what "com.apple.nsurlstorage-cache" is. Any ideas?

24877281731_1a93cca563_b.jpg
 
Create a new User profile and work with it for a test.
If the work with the new User has less or no issues, you might have just a problem with the user profile you usually work with .
 
Hi all,

I need help here with a very strange problem.
I bought the Sintech PCIE Blade adapter (also stated in Post #1) and fitted it with a Macbook Pro 2013 Retina SSD Blade 128GB.
After slotting into Slot #3 of my Mac Pro 2012 3.2GHz Quad machine, I proceeded to install 10.11 on it via USB installer. Upon completion, I could start using the OSX on the newly fitted SSD blade via PCIE adapter.

The strange thing happens when I power down and do a fresh boot up. The system could not detect the newly installed OS! Even when pressing Alt during boot, the SSD blade does not show up. I have to boot up using the existing SATA2 SSD boot drive. Once inside, I could see the SSD blade and read the content.
If I were to restart again, everything will go well (detecting the SSD blade) and start up using the SSD blade.

If I were to power down and boot up again, the SSD blade will not be detected. The system will stuck on white screen for almost 1min 30 sec before it detects the next bootable drive (that is my SATA2 SSD) and boot up using that copy instead.

Can anyone enlighten the issue I am experiencing now?

Thanks in advance.
 
Hi guys,
this has probably been answered somewhere else on this forum but i simply don't have the time to read that many pages but i have a Kingston Hyper X predator 256 Gb pcie SSD card in my 2009 Mac Pro 5,1 with El Capitan installed and cant boot into my Windows 10 installed on a SSD connected in Bay 1 with the card installed, as soon as i remove it i can boot no problems. I'm currently looking into either getting a Apricorn Velocity Duo x 2 and buying another SSD to raid 0 and install Windows 120 on that but with the Hyper X car installed will that boot?? Or better still buying a Lycom DT-120 and a new samsung M.2 256Gb and installing Windows 10 on that but with the other Kingston Hyper X card with OS X card installed would that boot into Windows 10?? Surely someone else has been through all this before. I've heard the Apricorn Velocity Duo x 2 will boot with another PCIE SSD card installed but will be the slower option.
Would really appreciate any advise as i have googled this problem for weeks now with no solution other than modify the EFI.
Cheers
Click to expand...

Other people have reported the same issue with HyperX Predator drives preventing to boot Win 7 and Win 10. I'd say stay away from these if you're using BootCamp.
 
pdafan said:
Hi all,

I need help here with a very strange problem.
I bought the Sintech PCIE Blade adapter (also stated in Post #1) and fitted it with a Macbook Pro 2013 Retina SSD Blade 128GB.
After slotting into Slot #3 of my Mac Pro 2012 3.2GHz Quad machine, I proceeded to install 10.11 on it via USB installer. Upon completion, I could start using the OSX on the newly fitted SSD blade via PCIE adapter.

The strange thing happens when I power down and do a fresh boot up. The system could not detect the newly installed OS! Even when pressing Alt during boot, the SSD blade does not show up. I have to boot up using the existing SATA2 SSD boot drive. Once inside, I could see the SSD blade and read the content.
If I were to restart again, everything will go well (detecting the SSD blade) and start up using the SSD blade.

If I were to power down and boot up again, the SSD blade will not be detected. The system will stuck on white screen for almost 1min 30 sec before it detects the next bootable drive (that is my SATA2 SSD) and boot up using that copy instead.

Can anyone enlighten the issue I am experiencing now?

Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...

Hi,
I have the same issues with a sandisk 128GB blade and an hexacore 5.1 Mac Pro. (see my previous posts).

I gave up, and settled to the following workaround:

Leave a clone of your boot drive on another drive/ partition in your mac pro.
"Cold boot" to the boot clones start screen an select restart to "warm boot" to the apple blade. (This takes around 60sec. until it finds your boot clone instead of the apple blade and another 6sec. to restart)
 
I've read through a LOT of this thread and still can't determine if the XP941 has a boot delay on a 2009 cMP with the Lycom.

Is it only the SM951 on a Lycom that has a boot delay or does the XP941 also have a delay?
If so, I'll sacrifice some speed and go with the XP941. I really don't want a delay at boot.

One more thing, what's the best way to get Bootcamp using a Lycom with the XP941?
Is a separate SSD in a SATAII bay the best solution?
My understanding is that you can't bootcamp the XP941. Is that right?

Thanks in advance folks.
 
#2357
Hi everyone! Last week I received my cMP:

Mac Pro 5.1 - 2010
2x 2.93GHz (6 cores)
24gb RAM ECC (6x4)
HD5870 (already changed by a GTX680)
2x 2TB HD
2x 512 SSD
Cinema Display 30" + keyborad + magic mouse.

HDDs and SSDs are installed in standard slots (SATAII, as is well known). I don't care to keep the HDDs using these connections since I use them only for file storage, but I want to make better use of SSDs, someone has experience with controllers that use the chipset Marvell 88SE9128? Can anyone tell me if this is compatible with my 5.1?

Placa-PCI-Express-2-portas-SATA-III-Raid-9197---COMTAC.jpg


I'm from Brazil (sorry for bad English) and here I can not find options like those offered by Sonnet or Apricorn and import makes these products arrive here with absurd prices.

Thank you.
 
dmylrea said:
Just my video card and an Inatek USB 3.0 card. Slot 2 is empty.
Click to expand...

dmylrea, so you have the gfx card in slot 1, slot 2 empty, slot 3 Lycom/SM951 and slot 4 Inatek USB 3.0 card?
I thought slot 3 and 4 shared PCI lanes, so wouldn't the use of USB 3.0 in slot 4 impact the SSD?
Did you try putting the Inatek USB card in slot 2 or would that then impact performance of gfx card in slot1?

Was thinking of getting the same USB 3.0 card, any issues to know about with it?

Thanks.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.
Top Bottom
Back