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SATA Express meets the '09 Mac Pro - Bootable NGFF PCIE SSD

A quick post about my experience with the XP941s and the hardware in my sig below. The XP941s run great! Thanks again folks.

There is a specific order to installing Windows 10 it would seem:
1. Install OS X on Slot 2 XP941
2. Enable Filevault encryption
3. Create FAT32 EFI Windows 10 USB flash drive using Rufus and install to XP941 in slot 3
4. Download BootCamp 6.0.6133 drivers and extract using 7-zip
http://swcdn.apple.com/content/down...n3pckjca1j44jw9m28yq72nh6li/AppleBcUpdate.exe
5. Open administrator command prompt and run bootcamp.msi

Done! OS X El Cap and Windows 10 running perfectly on a Mac Pro with blazing speed!
 
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Squuiid said:
A quick post about my experience with the XP941s and the hardware in my sig below. The XP941s run great! Thanks again folks.

There is a specific order to installing Windows 10 it would seem:
1. Install OS X on Slot 2 XP941
2. Enable Filevault encryption
3. Create FAT32 EFI Windows 10 USB flash drive using Rufus and install to XP941 in slot 3
4. Download BootCamp 6.0.6133 drivers and extract using 7-zip
http://swcdn.apple.com/content/down...n3pckjca1j44jw9m28yq72nh6li/AppleBcUpdate.exe
5. Open administrator command prompt and run bootcamp.msi

Done! OS X El Cap and Windows 10 running perfectly on a Mac Pro with blazing speed!
Click to expand...
[doublepost=1456367540][/doublepost]Do you set up the Raid 0 in windows or OS X? does it matter that rufus usb is in FAT32 (mine will only do NTFS), wil EFI do you mean only uefi or uefi/bios? What does Filevault have to do with it? I have a kingston hyper x and SM951 both 256GB that i will be raiding, write speads of the kingston are only 600mb/s.
 
hugomac said:
Why dont raid?
Click to expand...
Mbr uefi and bios, Mbr uefi or gpt uefi?
Cheers REALLY appreciate it.
Just tried to boot into latest version rufus created usb with fat32 8k and gpt and I got blue recovery screen
But I do have both pcie cards Installed.
 
hugomac said:
Mbr uefi and bios, Mbr uefi or gpt uefi?
Cheers REALLY appreciate it.
Just tried to boot into latest version rufus created usb with fat32 8k and gpt and I got blue recovery screen
But I do have both pcie cards Installed.
Click to expand...
hugomac, probably best if you start a new thread about this.
If you select the Windows 10 ISO in Rufus it will automatically choose all the correct options for you. Do not change them, then create the USB flash and then boot off of it. If it doesn't work, then you have hardware problems. Try taking a drive out or swapping out the RAM with different modules and see if it works.
 
Squuiid said:
Folks, if you live in the UK, here's a great deal on the 512GB XP941, at £150. I've bought 3 now and there are still plenty in stock:
https://www.overclockers.co.uk/sams...state-drive-mzhpu512hcgl-00000-hd-205-sa.html

They also have the Lycoms for £10
https://www.overclockers.co.uk/lycom-dt-120-m.2-pci-e-ssd-to-pci-e-adapter-card-hd-000-lm.html
Click to expand...

Good pointer, is that bootable? Also is the install of the wireless card really that easy? Thinking of giving my 5.1 a boost and your upgrade list looks very impressive
 
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Mr Ski 73 said:
Good pointer, is that bootable? Also is the install of the wireless card really that easy? Thinking of giving my 5.1 a boost and your upgrade list looks very impressive
Click to expand...
It is bootable, yes. Put it in slot 2.

Not sure what you're referring to re 'wireless card' but if you mean is it easy to install these things then yes, my Nan could do it.
 
Mr Ski 73 said:
Good pointer, is that bootable? Also is the install of the wireless card really that easy? Thinking of giving my 5.1 a boost and your upgrade list looks very impressive
Click to expand...
Yep, bootable for Windows 10 and OS X.
Re WiFi+BT install, fiddly, but pretty easy. Finding a card that has been wired for internal USB power is tricky however.
[doublepost=1456560746][/doublepost]
sailmac said:
Ditto, FWIW.
Click to expand...
+1 Having now received my two Lycoms, definitely no LEDs.
 
PowerMike G5 said:
Yes, I have the same setup as in the Barefeats test. The difference for me is I am using one SSD blade as my boot drive and the other 3 in a RAID 0 as a media/scratch drive for video editing.

When I say "negotiates the speed properly", it is the only card I am aware of that runs the SM951 at full x4 lane speed in the x16 slot. If you try using another card, like the Lycom DT-120, it only runs at x2 lane speed in the x16 slot for whatever reason. This can be solved by running it in slots 3 or 4. But the Amfeltec card is unique in that it runs every SSD blade on it at the full x4 speed in the x16 slot. Which means you are utilizing every lane in the x16 slot with the full use of this card, which is maximizing the potential usage.

The blades do fit directly into the card, no adapter needed.

The card itself is about $330, shipping included. And you spend roughly the same amount for each 512GB SM951, so as a whole it's pricey. But if you are a working professional who would benefit from his setup, it is worth it. I was dealing with the issue of using all the PCIE slots, so this was a welcome solution to get both my boot volume and media read/scratch volume running off one PCIE slot, while still allowing me to use my AJA Video card and USB 3.0 card as well.

Hope this helps.
Click to expand...

Yes, it helps immensely! Currently, I am using two PCIe slots, running RAID with the XP941 in Slot 2 and the SM951 in Slot 3 because the latter will not run at full speed in Slot 2.
[doublepost=1456769606][/doublepost]
Squuiid said:
Yep, that makes sense.
The cheaper price and boot delay in SM951 swayed me towards two 941s, oh, and I wanted to keep my future RAID options open by buying the same models.
Click to expand...

I believe you will be happy with the XP941s, but I do have same-size XP941 and SM951 in RAID together. It works fine for El Capitan. If you are talking about booting Windows 10, then that's out of my league. I just use the Windows machine for that!

By the way, this configuration boots quickly. For whatever reason, it will not shut down, though. I always have to hold the power button. It's not usually an issue for me, as I keep the Mac running, but it can be a problem when installing and the like, when the process wants to do multiple restarts. There's not much that hasn't been modified on this 4,1/5,1, so the culprit could be anywhere. Not losing sleep.
 
PowerMike G5 said:
When I say "negotiates the speed properly", it is the only card I am aware of that runs the SM951 at full x4 lane speed in the x16 slot. If you try using another card, like the Lycom DT-120, it only runs at x2 lane speed in the x16 slot for whatever reason. This can be solved by running it in slots 3 or 4.
Click to expand...

Just wanted to point out for clarification that the problem w/ Slot 2 and the SM951 isn't the number of lanes (x2 vs. x4), it's actually PCIe 1 vs 2, or link speed (2.5GT/s vs. 5.0GT/s). The net effect is the same, of course, since x2 provides half the bandwidth that x4 does, just like 2.5GT/s is half of 5.0GT/s. I believe the SM951 is PCIe 3.0, and for some reason, it throws up its hands when looking at an x16 PCIe 2.0 slot.

Further, and just FYI, I have experimented some w/ 512GB and 1TB SSUBX (SM951) blades singly and in pairs. Unfortunately, unless you use something like that Amfeltec 4-blade card, you won't be able get twice the speed of a single SSUBX w/ a pair of them due to: (1) the x16 Slot 2 (or Slot 1) link speed of 2.5GT/s, and (2) the shared PCIe lanes between Slots 3 & 4. So, if you put 2 blades into Slots 3 & 4, you still get around 1500MB/s because their 4 lanes are bridged/matrixed to only 4 lanes from the CPU. If you mix it up and use, say, Slots 2 & 3, the 2.5GT/s link speed of Slot 2 will limit you.

In any case, as many have said, they're still wicked-fast and you probably won't notice the difference in practical usage anyway!

Fred

P.S. As an aside, anybody else here want to see Rob @ BareFeats move his video card to Slot 3 or 4 and put TWO of the Amfeltec cards in Slots 1 & 2 w/ EIGHT blades to see what he gets??? :D
 
Squuiid said:
A quick post about my experience with the XP941s and the hardware in my sig below. The XP941s run great! Thanks again folks.

There is a specific order to installing Windows 10 it would seem:
1. Install OS X on Slot 2 XP941
2. Enable Filevault encryption
3. Create FAT32 EFI Windows 10 USB flash drive using Rufus and install to XP941 in slot 3
4. Download BootCamp 6.0.6133 drivers and extract using 7-zip
http://swcdn.apple.com/content/down...n3pckjca1j44jw9m28yq72nh6li/AppleBcUpdate.exe
5. Open administrator command prompt and run bootcamp.msi

Done! OS X El Cap and Windows 10 running perfectly on a Mac Pro with blazing speed!
Click to expand...
UPDATE: This worked fine until I replaced the ATI 5770 with an NVIDIA GTX680 (Mac Edition). A nightmare ensued.
Turns out GTX680 (Mac Edition) cards don't work on a Mac Pro with Windows 10 running in UEFI mode!
You get a black screen/crash as soon as the NVIDIA driver installs and you will no longer be able to boot into Windows.

What I ended up having to do is ditch one of the XP941 blades and install an SSD in SATA bay 1 instead.
Then install Windows 10 using a CD, in BIOS mode, to the SATA SSD. (Windows on a USB flash drive will only install in EFI mode)

Once installed, Windows 10 automatically installs the latest NVIDIA drivers from the web. I then installed the 6.0.6133 BootCamp drivers listed above.

The downsides to this are a) I can't use the XP941 as a Windows drive and b) the SATA SSD runs in IDE mode not AHCI.

On the plus side, I can now game in Windows with a decent gfx card on my Mac Pro 5,1
 
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I just installed a SM951 (SAMSUNG AHCI version - MZHPV512HDGL) with a DT-120. Surprised at how small this thing is. Anyway I installed the board in slot 4 and copied my system over to make it the boot disk. All seems to work fine and shows TRIM enabled. Anything else I should keep an eye on using OSX 10.11?

DiskSpeedTest.png
 
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saulinpa said:
I just installed a SM951 (SAMSUNG AHCI version - MZHPV512HDGL) with a DT-120. Surprised at how small this thing is. Anyway I installed the board in slot 4 and copied my system over to make it the boot disk. All seems to work fine and shows TRIM enabled. Anything else I should keep an eye on using OSX 10.11?

View attachment 619184
Click to expand...
I just did exactly the same thing, the same ssd in 512 and same 120 adaptor in my Mid 2010 Mac pro in the 3 rd pcie slot . I am running OSX 10.10.5 Yosemite ....
So my question is where does it "show TRIM enabled" and how does one access this view ? Thanks
 
KevWind said:
So my question is where does it "show TRIM enabled" and how does one access this view ? Thanks
Click to expand...

Go into About this MAC - System Report - SATA/SATA Express and select your drive. There will be a line showing "TRIM Support:" and will be either Yes or No.
 
fhturner said:
Just wanted to point out for clarification that the problem w/ Slot 2 and the SM951 isn't the number of lanes (x2 vs. x4), it's actually PCIe 1 vs 2, or link speed (2.5GT/s vs. 5.0GT/s). The net effect is the same, of course, since x2 provides half the bandwidth that x4 does, just like 2.5GT/s is half of 5.0GT/s. I believe the SM951 is PCIe 3.0, and for some reason, it throws up its hands when looking at an x16 PCIe 2.0 slot.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I read somewhere it may have something to do with the firmware of the SM951, but I can't be certain.

But yes, it seems the only solution to get the SM951 to work at full x4, 5.0GT/s speed on slot 2 is the Amfeltec card. Not a great solution price-wise if you are only looking to run one ssd. But it has been a blessing if you want to run multiple SSDs at full speed, all the while taking on one PCIe slot.
 
handheldgames said:
Boot-up and Performance
  • Unless the PRAM is zapped, the SSUBX still has the dreaded cold-boot delay.
  • The SSUBX does indeed run at a x4 link and 5.0 GT/S in PCI2 slot #2.
  • The M.2 -> Apple PCIe slot adapter has a red light that compliments the green light on the PCIe to Apple PCIe slot adapter.
Click to expand...

Just so I understand... If you install this card +Apple PCIe adapter+ Apple SSUBX, zapping the PRAM will get rid of the cold-boot delay so that each time I press the power button it will just boot quickly, and at the same time give me 5.0/GTs in slot 2?
 
Squuiid said:
Thanks Lucas. Appreciate your insights.
Ugh, didn't know about the Lycom LEDs. I'm going to hate that (still waiting on the parts to arrive)

Regarding your SSDs, is your Apple card the SSUBX or SSUAX? If a B card then it's the same as an SM951, so you essentially have two of them.

The reason I ask is because I do genuinely think the Lycom cards have an issue with the SSUBX and SM951 cards.

However, the SSUAX and XP941 cards supposedly do negotiate correctly, with no delay.

What would be interesting is for those people who are having link issues and delays with their SM951 and SSUBX drives to try these JZLL cards and see what happens. Do they correctly negotiate 4x link in slot 2 for example?
Are there any delays at boot?

It might make me regret ordering two XP941s!
Click to expand...

I tried one of these cards because I do have the SSUBX - my intention was to look into the link negotiation issue. It does not seem like a likely solution, but I had some curiosity here and decided to give it a try. Besides, I do like the color of these cards and they do appear to be well made.

The adapters I bought are intended for the Apple branded drives - I did not look at the ones intended for the SM951.

These cards look very nice, but there is a serious fit issue in my 2009 Mac Pro. The PCIe slot connector is prevented from engaging because the metal bracket attachment causes the card to be too far away from the back of the Mac Pro - the key in the PCIe connector does not line up the the small slot in the adapter card.

The second thing I noticed is that a small RED wire has been added between the anode of the LED and pin 36 on the D1 connector to the SSD. When active, the diode develops a forward voltage of approximately 2 volts, so that is what appears on pin 36 of the SSD. I asked the eBay seller about the wire and I was told it was for compatibility with the 2015 cards. I asked another question about the compatibility and I was told that it was a test point.

Does anyone else have this adapter card and does it also include the RED wire connection between the anode of the diode and pin 36?
 
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