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SATA Express meets the '09 Mac Pro - Bootable NGFF PCIE SSD

I've read this entire thread and have a pretty good handle on the different combinations and pros/cons/caveats...but there's so many bits of info I can't keep it all straight all the time! :D I'm working on a 512GB upgrade for a client's cMP 2008.

First question: Are there ANY revisions/variants of the Apple SSUAX 512GB (SM512F) that are x4? Or are the ONLY SSUAX x4 blades the 1TB models? What about a 512GB stick from a 2013 nMP?

For extra credit, feel free to remind me of anything I'm missing here:

For a Mac Pro 2008, Mac OS X 10.6.8
1. SSUBX— in a 2008 machine, excluding the use of the Amfeltec 4-socket card, it'll only ever hit ~800MB/s. In PCIe 2 Slot #2, it downclocks to PCIe 1 rate of 2.5GT/s. Slots 3 & 4 are also obviously limited to 2.5GT/s, since they are PCIe 1. Will have native TRIM support, even in client's 10.6 system.

2. SSUAX— should be able to hit ~1200MB/s in Slot 2, as long as blade is x4 (hence the above question). Native TRIM support.

3. SM951— same limitations as SSUBX/#1, but w/o native TRIM support enabled.

4. XP941— also ~1200MB/s as in #2 above, but any 512GB models of these should be x4. No native TRIM support.

So, likely ruling out #s 1 & 3 due to SSUBX/SM951 inability to run as PCIe 2 device in the 2008 Mac Pro, I'm probably looking at SSUAX or XP941 in #s 2 & 4. The former has TRIM support but likely not x4 for 512GB capacity. The latter lacks native TRIM but will be x4.

Anything I'm forgetting?

Thx,
Fred
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box185 said:
These cards look very nice, but there is a serious fit issue in my 2009 Mac Pro. The PCIe slot connector is prevented from engaging because the metal bracket attachment causes the card to be too far away from the back of the Mac Pro - the key in the PCIe connector does not line up the the small slot in the adapter card.
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I know it doesn't make you feel very good about it, but these adapters + blades are so light, you could consider just removing the metal bracket and popping the adapter card in the slot by itself, letting friction and the board stiffness hold it up and in place. Just be careful, and you should be okay. Not as secure as having the bracket for support, but it should suffice...
 
TheStork said:
At prices much lower than the eBay sellers are asking for the SSUBX blades. Well, I was wrong. Looks like these blades are equivalent in speed to the SSUBA blades.
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Not quite. The SSUAX (XP941) blades— 1TB SSUAX variants and all XP941s, at least— are capable of nearly 1000MB/s write and 1200MB/s read when using an x4 link. The 763/446MB/s r/w speeds listed suggest they are limited to x2, and possibly more constrained than that on the write side of things (although perhaps that write speed is just due to the type of benchmarking they use?).

What I don't understand is why they aren't making these (and the nMP upgrades before them) 4-lane instead of 2. Maybe x4 controllers for these things are a rarity and Samsung just happened to make one?
 
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Looks like OWC finally gave up on the SandForce controllers. These new ones are using Silicon Motion 2256 with Marvell 9230 RAID controller. I guess these are actually two SSDs in RAID 0. That explains performance numbers similar to using something like a Velocity Duo X2.
 
New to the Mac Pro world - just acquired my 2010. First thing I've upgraded was the storage. Got a Lycom DT-120 and a Samsung 512gb SM951. Installed it to slot 3 and confirmed 5GT/s. Ran Blackmagic on it and at first only saw around 60mb/s (albeit the test was cycling from read to write extraordinarily fast). Made me think it was writing small files and was writing them so quickly that Blackmagic didn't have a chance to measure it. Not sure if that's what the actual issue was, but when I changed the BM settings from 1gb files to 5gb, speeds spiked to 1400mb/s read and write.

Happy to report I've got the speed and I've got the boot screen if I hold Alt. Forgot to enable TRIM so I'll try that this evening.

For any layperson like myself intimidated by this 66 page thread, I can confirm the DT-120 and the Samsung 512gb SM951 seem to work without any drawbacks and for a reasonable price.
 
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Wanted check back and report I solved logout and "bogging down" problems. It had nothing to do with SSDs or SSD adapters. Over the course of a couple OS upgrades while on SSD, the System Management Controller and PRAM became "non-optimal".

This sequence fixed everything:
- Shut down, boot in safe mode, repair permissions
- Shut down, Reset SMC (unplug power)
- Reset PRAM while booting

I also routed bluetooth antennae line out of the 2009 Mac Pro case to a wireless antennae, which solved bluetooth signal slowdowns.

So all problems are solved now - blue tooth slowdown, windows server CPU spikes and slow logout. Nice to be working fast and focused on work vs. system problems!!

soloact said:
Progress report for @sailmac and @MrAverigeUser
I did recommended monitoring and more research.

Temperature -- Not an issue. Work I'm doing doesn't hammer the SSD. It's around 95-97 degrees F as I work.
Memory -- Not an issue. Memory pressure is low all the time.
Slow Performance -- Still working this. I think it intermittent bluetooth and too many open windows for stock graphics card to animate quickly on mission control swipe. I'll keep monitoring

Slow logout -- This continues like clockwork. I've been using Console app to monitor. The item below shows up consistently on every slow logout. It's about the last item before logout delay which can be up to 6 minutes. I don't know what "com.apple.nsurlstorage-cache" is. Any ideas?

24877281731_1a93cca563_b.jpg
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box185 said:
These cards look very nice, but there is a serious fit issue in my 2009 Mac Pro. The PCIe slot connector is prevented from engaging because the metal bracket attachment causes the card to be too far away from the back of the Mac Pro - the key in the PCIe connector does not line up the the small slot in the adapter card.
Click to expand...

i mentioned this as an issue earlier, i ended up just popping the card into the slot without the bracket in place, but it bugged me incessantly until i just replaced the card.
 
Lucas Godfrey said:
i mentioned this as an issue earlier, i ended up just popping the card into the slot without the bracket in place, but it bugged me incessantly until i just replaced the card.
Click to expand...

Yes - I followed your lead in consideration of this card and I will do some additional tests with it installed, but I agree with you - the fit issue bugs me the point that I don't even want to consider it as a permanent solution.
 
box185 said:
Yes - I followed your lead in consideration of this card and I will do some additional tests with it installed, but I agree with you - the fit issue bugs me the point that I don't even want to consider it as a permanent solution.
Click to expand...
If you can take the lids off CPUs (you skillful person you), can't you modify the card?
 
Squuiid said:
These look nice! Samsung SM961
No mention of AHCI models however.
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From AnandTech:

So let’s start with the base specifications. The 950 Pro marks Samsung’s transition from SATA to PCIe for their flagship consumer drive, and in doing so shifting the primary form factor from 2.5” to M.2. As a result the 950 Pro comes as a M.2 2280 drive, what is quickly becoming the common size for “full size” laptop SSDs.

The 950 Pro is in turn the first SSD shipping from Samsung that combines the company’s V-NAND technology with NVMe protocol support. Until now Samsung has offered V-NAND based drives using AHCI, such as the current 850 Pro. Alternatively Samsung offers NVMe drives to OEMs in the form of the SM951-NVMe, however this drive is built with planar NAND. And in the interim Samsung has announced the enterprise-level PM953, a drive which combines TLC V-NAND with NVMe, however as we still don’t have a release date for that drive it looks like the 950 Pro will be the first such drive to actually ship out of Samsung’s entire product lineup, never mind the consumer lineup.

The release of a V-NAND plus NVMe drive has been a long time coming, and should confer both performance and cost improvements. As we’ve seen with the NVMe SM951, just the switch to NVMe with planar NAND has greatly improved small I/O latency while also improving overall I/O consistency. V-NAND in turn further improves Samsung’s ability to scale up NAND density, and by extension bring down costs for any given capacity. The die size difference between Samsung’s 32-layer V-NAND and the smallest planar nodes is not overwhelming, but it will still help to push the envelope on price vs. capacity versus their current M.2 planar drives.
Click to expand...

Lou
 
Squuiid said:
The downsides to this are a) I can't use the XP941 as a Windows drive and b) the SATA SSD runs in IDE mode not AHCI.
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There are ways to enable AHCI mode in Windows on a BIOS-boot Windows installation. Admittedly I don't know much about it, but I wanted you to be aware that there's that option out there. Your SATA would run AHCI for sure, and perhaps the XP941 could work too. I would try enabling AHCI on the SATA SSD and if successful, then cloning the SATA SSD to the XP941 to see if it boots.
 
This might be of interest to some of you. I just received my Angelbird Wings X2 PCIe card. It supports several RAID modes, speeds up to 950 MB/s and is bootable. The MX2 card is also available for ordering.

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Hi everyone,
this thread is gold but it's also super long :)
Can you give me a quick tip about what card can be compatible with this 768 Samsung storage? I have it in an external box but not using it anymore for local backups and I'd love to use it into my Mac Pro 5,1.
In my understanding there are different connectors/standards for those flash units, and I can't understand which card to choose from.
Thanks and sorry if I wasn't able to browse around the whole thread correctly.
 

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O.N.Y.X said:
This might be of interest to some of you. I just received my Angelbird Wings X2 PCIe card. It supports several RAID modes, speeds up to 950 MB/s and is bootable. The MX2 card is also available for ordering.

View attachment 625648 View attachment 625651 View attachment 625652 View attachment 625653
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Wonder if this also runs on the Marvell chipset. I see many similar options in the market and most of them are Marvell-based. The Marvell ones are a bit slower though - my 2 X SSD in RAID 0 setup maxes out at about 800MBs. But the card cost me less than $50.
 
ShawnF said:
Wonder if this also runs on the Marvell chipset. I see many similar options in the market and most of them are Marvell-based. The Marvell ones are a bit slower though - my 2 X SSD in RAID 0 setup maxes out at about 800MBs. But the card cost me less than $50.
Click to expand...

800 MB/s sounds like the maximum throughput of PCIe 2.0 x2- since the Wings X2 uses a x4 interface just like the Sonnet Tempo Pro for instance maximum speeds go up with the theoretical limit being 1.6 GB/s. I suppose the Wings X2 is based on an in-house chip. I chose the Wings X2 because it's quite a bit cheaper than the Tempo Pro, at least here in Europe.
 
Just upgraded my Mac Pro to a 128Gb SM951 with the Lycom DT-120 adapter. Can't believe how small thing is!

Reads capped at around 1,300MB/s, Writes around 650MB/s
 
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