SATA Express meets the '09 Mac Pro - Bootable NGFF PCIE SSD

[crjackson2134]

So I'm just wondering if using one of these adapters with an Apple branded SSD stick will cure the Trim issues with Yosemite? I cat run Yosemite very well due to not being able to enable Trim on my 840Pro. Yes I know that Trim Enabler SHOULD work with Yosemite, but it just doesn't on my system no matter what I do. It's really pi****g me off at the moment.

It's perfect under Mavericks.

 

[mikeboss]

So I'm just wondering if using one of these adapters with an Apple branded SSD stick will cure the Trim issues with Yosemite? I cat run Yosemite very well due to not being able to enable Trim on my 840Pro. Yes I know that Trim Enabler SHOULD work with Yosemite, but it just doesn't on my system no matter what I do. It's really pi****g me off at the moment.

It's perfect under Mavericks.

yes, TRIM will work out of the box with this adapter and an Apple branded SSD. another big benefit! as soon as these adpaters are going to be available I'll order two immediately.

I contacted SoftRAID support about TRIM in Yosemite (they also simply patched the IOAHCIBlockStorage.kext like anybody else does). their answer? "good question" they don't know yet how this will work out! and I certainly don't want to constantly disable kext-signing (which switches itself on again of course every time PRAM/NVRAM gets zapped).

 

[crjackson2134]

yes, TRIM will work out of the box with this adapter and an Apple branded SSD. another big benefit! as soon as these adpaters are going to be available I'll order two immediately.

I contacted SoftRAID support about TRIM in Yosemite (they also simply patched the IOAHCIBlockStorage.kext like anybody else does). their answer? "good question" they don't know yet how this will work out! and I certainly don't want to constantly disable kext-signing (which switches itself on again of course every time PRAM/NVRAM gets zapped).

Yeah, it's frustrating. I'll be staying on Mavericks for a while just because of this issue. I ranted loudly to Apple through the feedback tool just to vent. I know they really don't care, but it felt good

 

[flowrider]

I cat run Yosemite very well due to not being able to enable Trim on my 840Pro. Yes I know that Trim Enabler SHOULD work with Yosemite, but it just doesn't on my system no matter what I do. It's really pi****g me off at the moment.

It's perfect under Mavericks.

Really? Are you using the latest release - V 3.2.5? It's working for me.

Lou

 

[crjackson2134]

Really? Are you using the latest release - V 3.2.5? It's working for me.

Lou

Yeah, latest version. I finally got it working just moments ago though. I used AppZapper to remove all associated files and it worked after the fifth time. Either AppZapper helped or I had my eyebrow twisted just right. Cindori was helping me out and I was about to give up when I thought I'd try "Just one more thing". The fifth time was the charm.

 

[flowrider]

^^^^Great!!!! Oskar is one of the Good Guys!

Lou

 

[RamCity]

ebay has great pricing from a lot of sellers. Depending on the sellers and their inventory, prices jump up and down. Deals can be found all the time on new XP941's and the Apple/Samsung PCIe drives. Taking a look today, Apple interface drives are cheaper and come in larger capacities:

Ebay Prices today:
Apple / 128GB - $145
XP941 / 128GB - $210

Apple / 256GB - $258
XP941 / 256GB - $315

Apple / 512GB - $450
XP941 / 512GB - $544

Apple / 1TB - $740

Note, our XP941 pricing on www.ramcity.com.au decreased last month. These prices are all converted from AUD to USD at 0.93 exchange rate and apply to purchasers outside of Australia (10% GST is removed), and include a full 3-year warranty against manufacturing faults. Shipping is an additional flat USD$27 approximately.

512GB: $487 USD (stock available now)
256GB: $279 USD (stock available now)
128GB: $149 USD (available end of August)

 

[Draeconis]

Hi RamCity,

What are your UK prices?

 

[handheldgames]

RAMCity -
Great to see that the much needed price drops are en-route. Any word on Next-generation designs from Samsung or expansion into 786GB or 1TB sticks. Have you heard of any firmware updates to the XP941 to address the MP Sleep issues?

While the XP941 delivers equivalent performance to Apple's PCIE SSD, the Apple based solution should be detected and supported in Yosemite without having to worry about kext-signing issues, developer mode, etc.

Note, our XP941 pricing on www.ramcity.com.au decreased last month. These prices are all converted from AUD to USD at 0.93 exchange rate and apply to purchasers outside of Australia (10% GST is removed), and include a full 3-year warranty against manufacturing faults. Shipping is an additional flat USD$27 approximately.

512GB: $487 USD (stock available now)
256GB: $279 USD (stock available now)
128GB: $149 USD (available end of August)

 

[RamCity]

Hi RamCity,

What are your UK prices?

If you convert the above prices to GBP using a 0.60 exchange rate that will give you a rough approximation. Shipping cost is around 17GBP

512GB: £293 (stock available now)
256GB: £168 (stock available now)
128GB: £90 (update: stock available mid next-week)

 

[RamCity]

RAMCity -
Great to see that the much needed price drops are en-route. Any word on Next-generation designs from Samsung or expansion into 786GB or 1TB sticks. Have you heard of any firmware updates to the XP941 to address the MP Sleep issues?

The next-gen m.2 SSD product (from Samsung at least) will have an upgraded PCIe 3.0 x4 interface as well as NVMe support. I think it's at least 6 months away before we'll be able to get samples. We have no information yet as to whether larger capacity (768GB, 1TB) models will be available.

Regards firmware - our currently shipping XP941's all have the latest firmware and I'm finding out if there is a way to upgrade the older drives.

Also note, more of the 128GB XP941's are arriving earlier than expected - due mid next week.

 

[Draeconis]

Silly question perhaps, but how would a PCIe 3.0 NVMe SSD work in a PCIe 2.0 slot? My 2010 Mac Pro only has 2.0 slots, little concerned the newer NVMe based drives won't be supported by my hardware :/

Still interested in the XP941 though, and those prices by RamCity are the best I've seen for people in the UK. Flexx sell the 512Gb for £350 on their site, or £400 on Amazon.

 

[TzunamiOSX]

Silly question perhaps, but how would a PCIe 3.0 NVMe SSD work in a PCIe 2.0 slot? My 2010 Mac Pro only has 2.0 slots, little concerned the newer NVMe based drives won't be supported by my hardware :/

Still interested in the XP941 though, and those prices by RamCity are the best I've seen for people in the UK. Flexx sell the 512Gb for £350 on their site, or £400 on Amazon.

When you put a XP941 (PCIe 4x 2.0) into a PCIe 4x 1.0 slot, you will get the maximum possible transferrate of the PCIe 1.0 slot (~720 MB/s)

When the Chips on the PCIe 3.0 M.2 are fast enough, you will get about 1650 MB/s with this PCIe 3.0 M.2 in a PCIe 4x 2.0 slot.

 

[handheldgames]

Apple PCIE SSD Adapters are finally showing up on Ebay. Initial prices are HIGH @ 44.00USD.

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_fro...ci+macbook+ssd&_nkwusc=pcie+mabook+ssd&_rdc=1

Some vendors have a price of $24, but... shipping times are pushed out until mid-oct.

 

[MacVidCards]

Apple PCIE SSD Adapters are finally showing up on Ebay. Initial prices are HIGH @ 44.00USD.

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_fro...ci+macbook+ssd&_nkwusc=pcie+mabook+ssd&_rdc=1

Some vendors have a price of $24, but... shipping times are pushed out until mid-oct.
Image

Can you clarify?

The sellers themselves are kind of vague.

The ad your picture is from is now $100.

The ones for $45 have this in text:

"PCI Express PCI-E to 2013 Apple Macbook Pro Air SSD Convert Card for A1493 A1502 A1465 A1466

With Standard PCI Back Bracket

Single-lane (x1) PCI Express throughput rates up to 5 Gbps

Support Windows XP/Vista/Windows 7/Windows 8

The SSD is not included.

Compatibility With:

2013 Macbook Pro A1493 A1502 ( MD864 MD865 MD293 Md294) SSD

2013 Macbook Air A1465 A1466 ( MD711 MD712 MD760 MD761) SSD"

another one says boot disk not supported. My guess is those guys don't have Mac Pro to test with.

But why the line about single lane?

And I think people should be VERY cautious and do research, the 2012 rMBP uses a blade SSD but isn't the same as the PCIE one in 2013, though to untrained eye it would look very similar. (IIRC)

I would be happy to get a bunch of these but don't want to add to my box of unfinished projects/useless pieces.

 

[handheldgames]

Can you clarify?

The sellers themselves are kind of vague.

The ad your picture is from is now $100.

The ones for $45 have this in text:

"PCI Express PCI-E to 2013 Apple Macbook Pro Air SSD Convert Card for A1493 A1502 A1465 A1466

With Standard PCI Back Bracket

Single-lane (x1) PCI Express throughput rates up to 5 Gbps

Support Windows XP/Vista/Windows 7/Windows 8

The SSD is not included.

Compatibility With:

2013 Macbook Pro A1493 A1502 ( MD864 MD865 MD293 Md294) SSD

2013 Macbook Air A1465 A1466 ( MD711 MD712 MD760 MD761) SSD"

another one says boot disk not supported. My guess is those guys don't have Mac Pro to test with.

But why the line about single lane?

And I think people should be VERY cautious and do research, the 2012 rMBP uses a blade SSD but isn't the same as the PCIE one in 2013, though to untrained eye it would look very similar. (IIRC)

I would be happy to get a bunch of these but don't want to add to my box of unfinished projects/useless pieces.

The pic of the $99 variant was the best one shown. There are other vendors with a cost of $44 and faster shipping times. The lowest cost board this morning was $24, but shipping times were as slow as someone swimming the pacific with the adapters strapped to their back.

If you want them in bulk, contact sales @ sintech.com directly. Bulk pricing of the adapter should be around $15 each + shipping. Lycom boards go for $12 In bulk.

If you look close up at the adapter image, the pcie connector is a 4x device. The text on the adapter says its a 4x device. It also lists nMP parts. My guess is poor translation by the Chinese sellers who grabbed the 1st production run from sintech.

And yes - purchasing flash for this drive, make sure it's 2013 rated or greater AND a Samsung part. Toshiba and Sandisk variants are sloooow.

 

[handheldgames]

PCIe card closeup / Windows Benchmarks / Odd numbers

I fond a good closeup of the Apple Flash PCIe card. It clearly states a 4X card. The camera based Windows screenshot shows numbers identical to Apple Flash performance in a MBA/MBP. I've added benchmarks from Apple Flash in macs and a close up of a 256GB flash from a 2013 MP.

In any case, this doc will help any one figure out Samsung's NAND naming conventions: http://www.samsung.com/global/busin...le/support/part_number_decoder/Nand_Flash.pdf

 

[mikeboss]

my SAMSUNG/Apple 1.0 TB PCIe SSD arrived today. I have ordered two PCIe adapter cards from sintech, they should be delivered next week. will do some benchmarking, of course.

 

[handheldgames]

my SAMSUNG/Apple 1.0 TB PCIe SSD arrived today. I have ordered two PCIe adapter cards from sintech, they should be delivered next week. will do some benchmarking, of course.

Which part did you end up getting? Apple has multiple parts with SLC / MLC from Samsung. 1tb ssd's seem to be holding steady at 750-850 on eBay. I have my adapter on order as well.

With an xp941, and an apple ssd, and a velocity x2, using mpcie for usb3 paid off.

 

[kennyman]

@mikeboss

Quick question - are you still using windows UEFI boot on the XP491? I cannot even boot EFI from windows cd, I have Bplus M2P4S with single XP941 512 one.

 

[mikeboss]

@ handheldgames:
part-nr. is MZ-KPU1T0T/0A6 and I got it on e*ay from a seller in south korea for less than USD 700 (shipping included). I highly doubt that any of Apple's SSDs are based on SLC flash-memory! it's simply way too expensive. what do you know about different models of the Apple 1.0 TB PCIe SSD? I know that there are two different part-numbers (AFAIK there's also MZ-KPU1T0T/0A2), but what's the difference?

@ kennyman:
no, it was just for testing. if you're not able to boot the install CD I think it has nothing to do with the SAMSUNG SSD. what version of Windows did you try to boot? on which model Mac Pro? I only used 8.1 professional on MacPro5,1.

 

[kennyman]

Thanks, I have mac pro 5,1 2010 dual processor and Windows 8.1 Pro 64 bit. It does not work and it will fail to boot. I will try with Bootcamp.

 

[mikeboss]

Thanks, I have mac pro 5,1 2010 dual processor and Windows 8.1 Pro 64 bit. It does not work and it will fail to boot. I will try with Bootcamp.

hm... I just booted the Windows 8.1 Pro DVD (64Bit) by pressing the option key after powering on the system. I then chose "EFI Boot" and voila. what graphics card do you have in your machine?

EDIT:
while playing with Windows 8.1 and the XP941, I used my spare MacPro5,1 which has no PCIe cards in it (except for the the PCIe to m.2 adapter card). and it's equipped with an ATI 5770. now I was trying to boot on my secondary MacPro5,1 which has a flashed 7970 in it (plus every PCIe slot used) and the installer crashed! replaced the 7970 with a 5770 and the machine booted Win 8.1 just fine...

 

[kennyman]

hm... I just booted the Windows 8.1 Pro DVD (64Bit) by pressing the option key after powering on the system. I then chose "EFI Boot" and voila. what graphics card do you have in your machine?

EDIT:
while playing with Windows 8.1 and the XP941, I used my spare MacPro5,1 which has no PCIe cards in it (except for the the PCIe to m.2 adapter card). and it's equipped with an ATI 5770. now I was trying to boot on my secondary MacPro5,1 which has a flashed 7970 in it (plus every PCIe slot used) and the installer crashed! replaced the 7970 with a 5770 and the machine booted Win 8.1 just fine...

Thank you for your input..I need to do some more testing then. Thank you

 

[CASLondon]

Clarification on the number of lanes -

this looks like the official sintech e-commerce page, and it describes the adapter as 4 lanes.

http://eshop.sintech.cn/2013-macbook-pro-air-ssd-to-pcie-4x-adapter-card-p-1026.html

I'm seriously considering this option as my boot drive, but was interested in hearing others experiences before I took the plunge. Update us when you're up and running.