Sidebar Sidebar
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.

Scott Forstall Reportedly Forced Out of Apple

EmpyreanUK said:
To say that this is generated by marketing (undoubtedly true to an extent, but not the entire story) is hardly a breakthrough idea, and so we might conclude that it is you who is stating 'truisms' :p
Click to expand...
That is a manipulation of what I have said, I have stated that it is mostly generated by marketing, without that my statement is indeed a truism.

Marketing creates perceptions of value. Obviously. But if value is all perception, which unless you can point out a new and existentially novel element on my periodic table, seems irrefutable, then I don't see how this 'understanding' of value is any different than one derived from appreciation of an iPhone's ergonomics or its utility as a masturbation aid when what's in question is sales.
Click to expand...
I have been arguing that there are loyal Apple followers who will be buying Apple products despite the high profit margins and despite any "values" or lack of thereof that the product may have; that they will buy the product regardless. You have the right to disagree with me.
 
FlameofAnor said:
Perhaps, he refused to apologize for the Swiss Railway clock fiasco as well. That may've been the last straw. ;)
Click to expand...

While that particular problem was solved quickly, it shouldn't have ever happened. And I suspect that getting a license _before_ shipping the app would have been a lot cheaper than getting a license _after_ shipping the app.

Now I don't think there was any kind of apology needed, because nobody got hurt. I am sure Swiss Railway added any hurt feelings that they might have felt to the license fee.
 
Last edited:
Why is it always necessary to speculate on what Jobs would do, as if he was infallible and only he could decide the optimal path for Apple?

I personally think the iOS team needs someone new, and if the guy who designed the iPod and iPhone (at least one of the versions of each), Ive, is talented in that area, I'm sure he is talented in this one and we will see a good outcome.

About the skeuomorphisms specifically, I'm divided. For example, there is nothing wrong with the yellow background and lines in Notes, and certainly I don't want a dull plain white background with text a la Windows Notepad. But I do think it is limiting and can inhibit one from designing apps with fresh looks.

Besides, how many of us have been using essentially the same iOS user interface for years now? I like that I know it well but some fresh additions would be nice.

A "Skin Store" is the next step IMO. Apple needs to let people customize the iPhone to their preference with more than just a case, and an official Skin Store app would allow them to fully control how and what can be changed, preapprove the designed skins, and sell them for a profit.

Check this out on skeuomorphisms (albeit the 'future' is just current similar apps): http://www.cultofmac.com/198844/8-design-crimes-that-jonathan-ive-should-set-right-in-ios-7-feature/
 
A few friends in Cupertino stated many times that Forstall seemed socially awkward; unable to patiently listen, understand others, acted erratic and standoffish, and generally seemed anxious. Some are comparing him to Steve Jobs, far from the case. Imagine Jobs with Asperger Syndrome; unlike Jobs, Forstall's position required him to be a "team player" which he is not.

This is good news for Apple as two shameful blights have been excised from the company. Ive will be incredible in Human Interfaces, it will be great to see him more involved with the software developed in conjunction with his hardware designs.
 
Forstall sells all his Apple stocks, then move on to find TeXT, and then Kixor; Sell Kixor to Dreamworks or Disney...

hmmm... sounds familar.
 
Last edited:
salmon said:
It doesn't enrage me, but it has been taken to a level where it looks silly in some cases, and was hindering usability. And as you say, it's inconsistent with the hardware.

I'm cautiously optimistic about Ive taking over the UI design. His philosophy is to get the unnecessary out of the way to allow the focus on usability, which is really what anyone wants out of their computing experience.

There's a big difference between visual cues (like the 'genie' effect) which are cute, but more importantly useful for conveying information, and an address book that's less useful than it was before just so it can look like a real one. Apple's biggest wins are when they manage to do both at once. Look great and be useful.
Click to expand...

Exactly. I don't care about the skeumorphic looks so much - it's just that they actually removed functionality from previous versions in order to make Address Book look more like a book, and iCal to look like a paper calendar. If I really wanted that, I'd go back to using a physical address book and calendar.
 
radio893fm said:
Is this really a good thing? I guess we will see. But are the Macbooks really that sexy? I am not sure. I have seen some Sony computers that if it was not because of their OS i would have consider instead of my MBPR.
Click to expand...

I guess you're legally blind then, because the only VAIOs that look good are the ones that are wholesole ripoffs of MacBooks:

sony-vaio-t-series-01.jpg
 
jaw04005 said:
You can go too far, just look at what happened with iCal.
Click to expand...

I really don't mind iCal; then again I'm also mesmerized by the podcast app's reel-to-reel. I'm pretty sure I'm one of the few people on Earth that like it if posts I have previously read are to be believed.:rolleyes:
 
sbrhwkp3 said:
I don't think Steve would have apologized about Maps, either.

I think he would have fiercely defended it and stated why it's way far beyond anything google maps was at its inception and that it's only going to get better.

My guess is Forstall felt the same way.

Either way, I'm looking forward to Ive UIs.
Click to expand...

Yea but Scott isn't Steve. He needed to check himself and he didn't. So Tim canned his ass.
 
gnasher729 said:
While that particular problem was solved quickly, it shouldn't have ever happened. And I suspect that getting a license _before_ shipping the app would have been a lot cheaper than getting a license _after_ shipping the app.

Now I don't think there was any kind of apology needed, because nobody got hurt. I am sure Swiss Railway added any hurt feelings that they might have felt to the license fee.
Click to expand...

Yes, the point was this should never have happened. The clock was a basic iOS app, and Forstall should've been well aware of the design conflict. To allow that kind of thing to slip through reflects poorly on him. I can imagine how Steve would've reacted.
 
Bezetos said:
Just out of curiosity, has Ive got any experience in interface and user experience design? I thought he's just a specialist in product design?
Click to expand...

He's a designer. He'll be able to flick through a piece of software and say, 'No, that's not the best way... Why don't we make it work like this? ... If there was something here you could just tap...?'

I'm sure he's got a long list of things in iOS he'd love to change.

He's probably way better placed to design a user interface than most software engineers.
 
koban4max said:
Whhaaatt?:eek: you can't be serious. What makes you think Ive can do make a better ios? Did he have any background in that area?
Click to expand...

Ive likes designing computers made up of rounded rectangles.

Most of current iOS is visually made up of rounded rectangles.

So he'll do fine :)

Bezetos said:
Just out of curiosity, has Ive got any experience in interface and user experience design? I thought he's just a specialist in product design?
Click to expand...

More importantly, did Braun / Dieter Rams do any UIs? If so, then Ive will have material to be inspired by. Ahem.

In any case, it'll be interesting to see what direction he wants to take. Super-minimalism? No colors? Fewer effects? More effects? At least it'll be a change!
 
MyMacintosh said:
insult? Like I said earlier, my original post is a serious question. As I've read other poster's questions in the iOS section the past weeks, it seems they received nothing but backlash when asking questions about why iOS has seemed to stagnate. Now it seems like the release of Forstall might bring changes to iOS after all and there seems to be a celebration. Just an observation.
Click to expand...

Serious answer? Two different groups.

There's people who are happy about the way things are, and there's people who are unhappy.

I wouldn't be surprised if there were a few people who flip flop and just jump on the bandwagon. But those people are just nuts.

Right now, it's the unhappy people making the comments. I personally think that the stagnation is expected because change for change's sake is a dumb idea. That if you want to see something different just because it's different, you really, seriously, should go buy a Windows Phone or an Android device. It'll be fun in the short term, but you'll soon find that as they've matured, they're "stagnating" too.
 
devinci99 said:
Forstall sells all his Apple stocks, then move on to find TeXT, and then Kixor; Sell Kixor to Dreamworks or Disney...

hmmm... sounds familar.
Click to expand...

Not really Forstall was not a founder of Apple or any company.

He merely worked for Apple and copied the late founder. I am sure Microsoft could use someone like this.
 
xak said:
Why is it always necessary to speculate on what Jobs would do, as if he was infallible and only he could decide the optimal path for Apple?
Click to expand...

Because it's an easy talking point. Since Jobs is gone and people are starting to forget what Jobs used to do - Case in point: after the last keynote, there were some who said "Jobs wouldn't have mentioned competing products during keynotes" Which is precisely the opposite of what Jobs used to do.

When Jobs was alive, everyone was pissed at how non-innovative Apple was. (See the iPod thread) Now that Jobs is gone, everyone's still pissed at how non-innovative Apple is, but just to prop up their argument they say "Jobs would've done things differently". It's just an easy way to support their Apple doomsday scenario.

xak said:
I personally think the iOS team needs someone new, and if the guy who designed the iPod and iPhone (at least one of the versions of each), Ive, is talented in that area, I'm sure he is talented in this one and we will see a good outcome.

About the skeuomorphisms specifically, I'm divided. For example, there is nothing wrong with the yellow background and lines in Notes, and certainly I don't want a dull plain white background with text a la Windows Notepad. But I do think it is limiting and can inhibit one from designing apps with fresh looks.
Click to expand...

I mostly agree. But also I'm afraid Ive will try to make everything look clean and neat in his trade mark minimal fashion. I've been using Windows Phone and at first it's fresh but it gets old quickly when everything looks the same.
 
PlayRadioPlay said:
You and all the other idiots regurgitating this crap need to get a ****ing clue, because it's completely, utterly insulting, as well as indicative of your complete refusal to open your eyes to the world around you. Are you blind?

My 55 year-old mother––who was a soccer mom 15 years ago––can operate a computer just fine. She can also operate a tablet just fine. And a PS3. And a Bose sound system. And a hybrid car. And a Kindle. And one of those crazy universal remotes that I refuse to even touch.

She can update all of those things, sync them, purchase apps, etc. Apple is not the only company whose products work for her.

Women are just stupid, amirite guys? /s

Stop thinking people are complete idiots. It's not the 90s anymore. Smartphones have been around for over a decade, and very soon will have been widely used by the general public for over 5 years. People who bought iPhones 3 years ago don't need dumbed down features in perpetuity. Apple needs to realize that people are learning to use these devices. They don't need to make them for children forever.

Times are changing and so are the people.
Click to expand...

Your mom is an exception. Some of us are an exception. A very small sample set that cannot be extrapolated to the larger population by any means.

Why? Because the continual proliferation of phishing exploits, Nigerian 419 scams, and trojans says that people, in general, still need their hand held on the internet.
 
theBB said:
It is hard to take somebody who calls the new maps "profoundly bad product" very seriously.
Click to expand...

Apple's Maps app is a profoundly bad product.

One of the most important things road mapping needs to do is display a visually distinctive hierarchy of roads, by classification from major to minor. This aids route planning and helps to identify major towns and cities, as they tend to have more major roads leading into them.

The fact that Apple Maps doesn't even get this right, opting instead to differentiate only between single and dual carriageway roads, is what, more than anything, makes it so poor cartographically.

That aside, it does look good, and the vector engine works extremely well.

As for Forstall / Ive, I agree with an earlier post saying Forstal is more bad Jobs, less good, and vice a versa for Ive.

Whatever else, it'll be interesting to see where OSX and iOS go in the next couple of years.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.
Top Bottom
Back