Scott Forstall Reportedly Forced Out of Apple

[chrimux]

A few friends in Cupertino stated many times that Forstall seemed socially awkward; unable to patiently listen, understand others, acted erratic and standoffish, and generally seemed anxious. Some are comparing him to Steve Jobs, far from the case. Imagine Jobs with Asperger Syndrome; unlike Jobs, Forstall's position required him to be a "team player" which he is not.

This is good news for Apple as two shameful blights have been excised from the company. Ive will be incredible in Human Interfaces, it will be great to see him more involved with the software developed in conjunction with his hardware designs.

So you actually think that "be different" is a bad thing?

I liked Forstalls presentations a lot, they were never boring or dull. And I am really tired of all that "team player" arguments. Being a team player is important in some areas where many people helping each other can achieve more than one person. That's mostly physical work, like building a house or harvesting. The more sophisticated or specialized a task gets the fewer people will be involved.

Leadership is not about being a "team player". Genius is not in "teams".

Ive will be incredible minimalistic in Human Interfaces, everything will be white - hardware and background and apps - and nobody will find anything anymore - and that's where siri comes in

 

[hchung]

What I want is the ability to place my icons anywhere I want, just like on Android. Why am I forced to always fill up the "page" from top to bottom?

Because icons anywhere doesn't work quite so nicely when you can rotate between portrait and landscape and people expect your dock to stay on the bottom.

 

[AidenShaw]

Yes! Yes! Yes!

Ive will be incredible minimalistic in Human Interfaces, everything will be white - hardware and background and apps - and nobody will find anything anymore - and that's where siri comes in

White icons on a white background - perfect!

But I hope that the black SKUs have black icons on a black background....

 

[nharrietha]

I'm going to assume this whole internal mess is what has been keeping the new iTunes from launching, and we will see the update for tomorrow? Yes?




.... Please?

Check out the Apple website. "A New iTunes is Coming 'Coming in November.'"
Pretty pissed.

 

[BStrydn27]

Why couldn't Apple have just toggled the skumorphisims IN SETTINGS... ???

Then we could have both the simplest to use and/or aesthetically pleasing design as well as the most functional design... Two interfaces? Yes... Too much work? Yeah, maybe your right and there is such a thing as too high of quality... I guess that's not why people like apple products...
This design war is foolish!!!

They could call it pro mode...

Also...
Choices and widgets good... Obtrusive toggles bad!
(Choices possibly meaning off/on switch for obtrusive toggles IN SETTINGS)
How bout it

 

[lannisters4life]

Is this really a good thing? I guess we will see. But are the Macbooks really that sexy? I am not sure. I have seen some Sony computers that if it was not because of their OS i would have consider instead of my MBPR.

But like I said... we will see. This is one of those things that time will really tell.

And just because Ive has a british accent doesnt make him a genious.

Being able to spell genius is always a good start

 

[oliversl]

dead serious. Is not a bad app, it works and better than Google on wifi location and caching. It just needs more data.

Not sure if serious?

 

[Drunken Master]

Nope. Sorry. One of the black ones is to die for. Can't remember the ref number (z probably?)

This it?

Looks a little 1997 to me.

 

[skunnykart]

I guess you're legally blind then, because the only VAIOs that look good are the ones that are wholesole ripoffs of MacBooks:

Image

Who ripped off who?

Back in 2004 Sony was the king of design. Not Apple.

http://www.notebookreview.com/default.asp?newsID=1970

 

[Alx9876]

I hope that day will never come.

I hope it does because the GS3 is an original iPhone 5 proto-type. It's not a bad thing at all. You get more out of your cell with a bigger display.

4 inch display and no width does not cut it for me at all. I would settle for 4.5 inch at the smallest.

 

[Steve121178]

This it?

Image

Looks a little 1997 to me.

2008, I had it. It was fantastic and I own it's successor the VPC-Z1.

 

[BvizioN]

I hope it does because the GS3 is an original iPhone 5 proto-type. It's not a bad thing at all. You get more out of your cell with a bigger display.

4 inch display and no width does not cut it for me at all. I would settle for 4.5 inch at the smallest.

Each to it's own. If i want a bigger screen i would go for iPad mini. Am not a fan of a big screen phones. Even 3.5" did not bother me. But 4" seems just right and does not make the phone feel bigger. I know people have different taste and i do understand that some like big screen phones. I really don't see Apple heading down that road, but then again after what happened few days ago, everything could be possible in the future.

 

[XboxMySocks]

I don't think Steve would have apologized about Maps, either.

I think he would have fiercely defended it and stated why it's way far beyond anything google maps was at its inception and that it's only going to get better.

My guess is Forstall felt the same way.

Either way, I'm looking forward to Ive UIs.

This. This times a thousand. I'm actually slightly disappointed in Apple for not saying 'you're mapping it wrong' or similar.

 

[firestarter]

This. This times a thousand. I'm actually disappointed in Apple for not saying 'you're mapping it wrong' or similar.

Maybe Tim Cook has a bit more insight into how much of a failure the mapping is beyond your home to mall run? Internationally (especially in growing markets like Japan) it's unusable.

Just a thought.

 

[XboxMySocks]

Maybe Tim Cook has a bit more insight into how much of a failure the mapping is beyond your home to mall run? Internationally (especially in growing markets like Japan) it's unusable.

Just a thought.

Why did you change my quote? :s.

Anyways, as the quote I posted, I believe they still should have come out and 'sorry not sorry' the thing as Jobs would have done (No I'm not bitching JOBS WOULD HAVE DID IT) I'm just saying I think that really think that's the attitude of the Apple we all know, not 'We're so sorry your iPhone took you to Starbucks instead of Dunkin Donuts!'

 

[roadbloc]

Why did you change my quote? :s.

Anyways, as the quote I posted, I believe they still should have come out and 'sorry not sorry' the thing as Jobs would have done (No I'm not bitching JOBS WOULD HAVE DID IT)

I doubt Jobs would have let maps out in its current state in the first place. As the guy in charge of iOS, Forstall ****ed up and refused to apologise. And for that, he had to go. Just like it would have been if he had been working anywhere else. And we may as well be honest, the terrible Maps app isn't the only reason why iOS 6 seems dated and clunky in comparison to Android JB.

See this as the beginning of the "Tim Cook era". It certainly has me interested in Apple again. Maybe we'll see more reliability and usability in Apple like the pre-iPhone years, rather than some of the ugly and nonsensical skeuomorphic designs we've had in iOS and seen creep into OS X over the years.

 

[MacDav]

Is it true that he just "lost" around 600.000.000$ (he was set to recieve 500.000 shares/stocks in 2015 and another half mil in 2020)?

Yes, he will walk out of Apple in 2013 with nothing but hundreds of millions of dollars. Poor guy can't catch a break.

 

[donnaw]

I didn't say they should force the black bg upon everyone, I said that ugly wallpapers aren't an improvement, aesthetically speaking.

Choice is good up to a point... from that point on it's mostly a source of headaches. Read "The Paradox of Choice: Why More Is Less" by Barry Schwartz for more thoughts on the matter (see, I only gave you one book to choose from. )

At my age I'm quite aware of what choice entails. And ugly is in the eye of the beholder. After developing software for close to 30 years I'm also aware when choices are good and bad from a users standpoint as well as a software perspective.

Sorry, giving people the option to pick wallpaper doesn't fall into any 'bad' category.

 

[MacFlorida]

I had to, lol
View attachment 373774

I did the same thing, but you beat me to this!
It's amazing how nice the Google Search is.
And to think that Siri is technically still in Beta after all this time.

 

[A1ik]

In 1985 Apple forced out Job. It turned out for their mutual benefit.

 

[Anuba]

At my age I'm quite aware of what choice entails. And ugly is in the eye of the beholder. After developing software for close to 30 years I'm also aware when choices are good and bad from a users standpoint as well as a software perspective.

Sorry, giving people the option to pick wallpaper doesn't fall into any 'bad' category.

You wanna use that straw man a second time? I never said that the option as such is a bad idea. I said the wallpapers included with iOS are hideous, tacky and un-Apple. Wallpapers with garish colors that drown the icons (Magenta camouflage pattern, really?) seems like something Microsoft would think up. You know, the company that Steve Jobs dissed for their lack of taste...

 

[VenusianSky]

Is Cook the new Sculley?

Time will tell. Difference is Apple is now a mass market product manufacturer. Back then, they were only in the niche computer market.

 

[melendezest]

What you have just said is exactly what my argument is - Apple creates more value by being better at understanding what people want and tuning their products to be more valuable.

Perception is reality, in this context. There is no destinction between percieved value and so called "real" value.

Ah, agreed. But I think that it should be stated that what you mention is true only of the individual.

Not everybody's perception of value is the same, so I believe that the term "real value" is an illusion. In my view, only perceived value exists. In other words, to the individual, real value and perceived value are the same thing (as you stated). But I, as an individual, cannot go to the next guy and objectively and unequivocally state: "this is more valuable than that". I try to rephrase that by stating: "this is more valuable than that to me, because..."

Apple's genius lies in finding that elusive "sweet-spot" near the top of the statistical bell-curve, when it comes to figuring out what the perceived value is for most people. How they do that? I'll never know.

----------

Why is it always necessary to speculate on what Jobs would do, as if he was infallible and only he could decide the optimal path for Apple?

I personally think the iOS team needs someone new, and if the guy who designed the iPod and iPhone (at least one of the versions of each), Ive, is talented in that area, I'm sure he is talented in this one and we will see a good outcome.

About the skeuomorphisms specifically, I'm divided. For example, there is nothing wrong with the yellow background and lines in Notes, and certainly I don't want a dull plain white background with text a la Windows Notepad. But I do think it is limiting and can inhibit one from designing apps with fresh looks.

Besides, how many of us have been using essentially the same iOS user interface for years now? I like that I know it well but some fresh additions would be nice.

A "Skin Store" is the next step IMO. Apple needs to let people customize the iPhone to their preference with more than just a case, and an official Skin Store app would allow them to fully control how and what can be changed, preapprove the designed skins, and sell them for a profit.

Check this out on skeuomorphisms (albeit the 'future' is just current similar apps): http://www.cultofmac.com/198844/8-design-crimes-that-jonathan-ive-should-set-right-in-ios-7-feature/

Holy crap. That is the best idea I've heard with regards to this skeuo-crud issue. I don't mind the skeuo-stuff, but I understand that it isn't for everyone.
A Skin-Store (sounds obscene ) would be awesome. Apple, you listening???

----------

There's really nothing wrong with the idea of a skeumorphic UI design for Game Center, but in that case it should allude to contemporary gaming, arcade games or something. Not green effing felt. On my way to some futuristic sci-fi cyberworld I really don't need a dose of old geezer associations, pool tables, roulette, craps, tuxedos and shaken-not-stirred dry martinis.

Yes, the green felt has got to go. I find it hideous and out of place. Arcade games are a great idea, it would keep consistency with the electronic games theme and bridge the gap between the more mature (but tech-savvy) of us and the younger and (arguably) hipper generation.

On a related note, love the new James Bond movies; can't wait to watch Skyfall....

 

[Zunjine]

Ah, agreed. But I think that it should be stated that what you mention is true only of the individual.

Not everybody's perception of value is the same, so I believe that the term "real value" is an illusion. In my view, only perceived value exists. In other words, to the individual, real value and perceived value are the same thing (as you stated). But I, as an individual, cannot go to the next guy and objectively and unequivocally state: "this is more valuable than that". I try to rephrase that by stating: "this is more valuable than that to me, because..."

Indeed. I'm not talking about value in a sense of quality but rather in a purely economic sense (this discussion began as a question of Apple's magins - I argue that the willingness of people to pay more for Apple goods is a measure of how much value Apple has added).

The only way to objectively measure economic value created is to accept that each person's perception of value is true for them and in that moment and measure that by seeing what they would pay for said item that they value. That cumulative number will be the total value created - regardless of what you or I may think about it.

 

[Silas1066]

I'm not feeling really positive about the Tim Cook era so far

I fact, I think Apple is starting to lose its way and needs to make some changes.

Steve remarked not long before he died that Apple was now a mobile devices company. Really? RIM is a "mobile device company." Does Apple want to be in that category?

I think Apple is a technology company that offers integrated entertainment and productivity solutions. I have an iPhone that I don't care much about. Sure, it is nice, generally works well, and has some good features, but an Android does all that as well. Now my Mac on the other hand is something I can't live without: it is miles ahead of anything else out there, both in terms of hardware and software. I also have Apple TV, which I love. Are there other products out there? Sure, but none works as elegantly and as well with my Mac.

the minute that Apple becomes a telephone maker to the exclusion of its other products, it will end up like RIM. Apple has built an ecosystem, and to neglect one part of that ecosystem to focus on another creates problems.

Apple's abandonment of the business sector through killing the Xserve and its server lines was the first indication that something was wrong. Some suspect that iOS will simply replace OSX--imagine that? We go from having a tool to having a toy. Google will continue marketing Android to businesses (and MS will do the same with Windows RT, etc.). Eventually, there will be no support for the iPhone in your office: you won't even be allowed to bring the thing into the building. They will give you an Android, and now that you have that, why get an iPhone?

Tim Cook brings in some dbag clown from Dixons to head up retail. What was he thinking? I'm not the CEO of Apple, but I think I could have found a better candidate on Craigslist.

Forstall couldn't get it done: no one cares how many touchdown passes you threw last season if you are 0-6 this season. Guy may have some talent, but it sounds like he is an ***** who was protected by Steve.

Advice to Apple: refine and expand the ecosystem. Don't neglect the corporate computing environment (which is merging with the consumer environment). Don't try to make a phone that does everything anyone can imagine, but does it poorly. Make a phone that does 10 things better than any phone on Earth. Don't forget you are a technology company.

OK, off my soapbox