I don't know about this move. Really love Scott's work and be genuinely loved Apple and the products just like Steve. He is really Steve Jobs 2.0, only he ha the coding genius that Steve didn't have. I don't know. I just don't know. Not Apple's best move. Could be another SJ story in the making. Strong feeling that Google is going to pick him up.
Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Scott Forstall Reportedly Forced Out of Apple
- Thread starter MacRumors
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
Google not only has no need for Scott, he would be the worst fit for them given his pension for not working well with people and is attitude.
My point was that the original design (black, grilled background for the bottom icons, non-customizable background, etc.) matched the hardware better than the current revision (OS X style dock 'shelf', custom wallpapers, etc.). I was thinking out loud that the UI look-and-feel design might take a step back and be better incorporated with the overall look of the hardware.
I have high hopes for Ive to bring something new to the table but I totally agree with you on this. I'll tell you, after working on a super bland Windows machine all day every day in the office its refreshing to hop on my Mac when I get home. I surely wont lose any sleep over it either way, as I can care less at the end of the day, I'm just saying...
uh, yeah.
----------
Ive likes designing computers made up of rounded rectangles.
Most of current iOS is visually made up of rounded rectangles.
So he'll do fine
More importantly, did Braun / Dieter Rams do any UIs? If so, then Ive will have material to be inspired by. Ahem.
In any case, it'll be interesting to see what direction he wants to take. Super-minimalism? No colors? Fewer effects? More effects? At least it'll be a change!
we'll see how he does with map and new ios design.
I think the "advisory" role is a veiled non-compete agreement. Since formal non-compete agreements are unenforceable in California, they'll just send him a check twice a month for the next few months until he's not in a position where he brings too much insider knowledge about Apple's immediate plans to wherever he winds up next. He isn't going to actually do anything.
Perhaps, he refused to apologize for the Swiss Railway clock fiasco as well. That may've been the last straw.
You could be on to something there
I never really liked him to be fair - but also I never knew him personally obviously so... That aside I'm really not a fan of the skeuomorphic designs that have been put into Mac OS X - on the iPhone it isn't so bad, because you're focusing on one interface at a time really, but with the Mac it just feels cluttered and inconsistant.
I'm almost at the point where I'd say Windows 8 is turning the tables with Mac OS X in terms of a clean design standpoint.
I'm almost at the point where I'd say Windows 8 is turning the tables with Mac OS X in terms of a clean design standpoint.
boring i.e. the move to greyscale in OS X... terrible. This company was all about intuition. For example, when you hit the delete button in your passbook, it shows the car getting shredded up. A lot of people like to shred their sensitive personal documents... They want something more than just the trashcan. Once the thing is shredded up, it makes it pretty intuitively clear that you're not going to be able to dig it out of a trashcan somewhere in the OS. That maybe true I'm just hitting the trashcan button (say in the photos app) but it's not as intuitively obvious. People like skeuomorphism. It adds elements of familiarity, comfort, and friendliness to seemingly daunting software...
And did we mention, STEVE WANTED IT?!?!
Such a wrong move for this company... Very disappointing.
I think its a fair point to remind everyone that ives 'radical' design of the iphone 4 with a newly invented antenna was also a disaster but jobs stood by coz of his talents that have been proved in the past yet forstall has been forced out after a map issue... I think an antenna issue is bigger than a map issue forstall has made an iphone accessable by everyone and the thanks he gets is being an advisor for a couple of months before they decide to throw him out and i think its safe to say that if jobs was still around they would never have considered firing him
Read the hundreds of posts on this thread and the other about it. And this article as well.
http://www.fastcodesign.com/1670760/will-apples-tacky-software-design-philosophy-cause-a-revolt
Having Ive in charge of user interface instead of Forstall is just one of many reasons. But thanks for asking.
Stupid
I have been a lurker for so long, but this event pretty much trigger me to join to share another point of view to the so called "Apple fans". Really, Apple is like a baseball team where if someone gets kicked out it is good riddance to the old and whatever new direction is good.
This isn't good news. Maybe it is better for Apple because Tim doesn't need to worry about Scott anymore, and there will be less friction among the execs. However Apple is about "balance". Jony is the Ying and Scott is the Yang. Jony is hardware and Scott is software. Both may not be the same, but that's what makes it work. They are both passionate on what they do, and they both do their corresponding areas well. Are they perfect? No... and neither was Steve Jobs.
Skeuomorphism is what makes Apple well Apple. Asking for the minimalistic interface of Windows 8 just goes to take away one of Apple's distinct personalities. Is it the best way? Perhaps no, but it is definitely Apple's way.
Just imagine if Jony created the new OS X to be minimalistic. Free of any skeuomorphism ideas... can you imagine how BORING it will be? Does it make you think of Apple? It will be just another OS in the lists of OSes that are around.
It's the people that makes Apple. It should never be full of YES men. Steve was able to control Scott. Tim is no Steve, but he should have better controlled him. That's why Steve was special, he was able to massage the collective egos at Apple to get things done well.
"Heres to the crazy ones. The rebels. The troublemakers. The ones who see things differently. While some may see them as the crazy ones, we see genius. Because the people who are crazy enough to think they can change the world, are the ones who do."
STUPID.
I have been a lurker for so long, but this event pretty much trigger me to join to share another point of view to the so called "Apple fans". Really, Apple is like a baseball team where if someone gets kicked out it is good riddance to the old and whatever new direction is good.
This isn't good news. Maybe it is better for Apple because Tim doesn't need to worry about Scott anymore, and there will be less friction among the execs. However Apple is about "balance". Jony is the Ying and Scott is the Yang. Jony is hardware and Scott is software. Both may not be the same, but that's what makes it work. They are both passionate on what they do, and they both do their corresponding areas well. Are they perfect? No... and neither was Steve Jobs.
Skeuomorphism is what makes Apple well Apple. Asking for the minimalistic interface of Windows 8 just goes to take away one of Apple's distinct personalities. Is it the best way? Perhaps no, but it is definitely Apple's way.
Just imagine if Jony created the new OS X to be minimalistic. Free of any skeuomorphism ideas... can you imagine how BORING it will be? Does it make you think of Apple? It will be just another OS in the lists of OSes that are around.
It's the people that makes Apple. It should never be full of YES men. Steve was able to control Scott. Tim is no Steve, but he should have better controlled him. That's why Steve was special, he was able to massage the collective egos at Apple to get things done well.
"Heres to the crazy ones. The rebels. The troublemakers. The ones who see things differently. While some may see them as the crazy ones, we see genius. Because the people who are crazy enough to think they can change the world, are the ones who do."
STUPID.
This is the first major move Cook has made since Jobs left so this is a real pivotal moment at Apple. It will either work well or it will fail, it's a gamble Cook has made.
We all know that Jobs was a unique, once in a lifetime innovator. He was the entrepreneur and ideas man at Apple as well as it's leader and CEO. You could not legislate for Jobs, could not apply Harvard Business School management theory and ideas to him. He went against so much conventional thinking...There was an excellent article in Fortune Magazine a while back while Jobs was still at Apple. The "Inside Apple" analysis went into detail as to how Jobs arranged senior management and what their responsibilities were. And he was the head of it all and gave the direction as well as came up with the primary ideas.
Cook is obviously very different, the classic business manager. Can Cook effectively manage the ideas pipeline at Apple? Decide what project to pursue and what to drop? I don't believe he can actually. He is now solely dependant on his direct reports. So how can he decide what products to go with? He does not have Jobs's intuition and vision. And he has now handed Ive a huge brief...
People are lauding Ive but lets break it down. Ive designed the pretty boxes that Apple software ran in. And Jobs was always very clear about everything they did at Apple, it's all about the software...In Job's own words, "It comes in a beautiful box, but it's still software." So why has Cook now brought Ive into the software side? There were no two people closer at Apple than Jobs and Ive, Jobs adored Ive yet he never saw fit to handing him the power Cook just has...
So Forestall was difficult to work with and abrasive.....went off on tangents...remind you of anyone?
Lets hope Cook is not just surrounding himself with Yes men. That's a recipe for disaster.
We all know that Jobs was a unique, once in a lifetime innovator. He was the entrepreneur and ideas man at Apple as well as it's leader and CEO. You could not legislate for Jobs, could not apply Harvard Business School management theory and ideas to him. He went against so much conventional thinking...There was an excellent article in Fortune Magazine a while back while Jobs was still at Apple. The "Inside Apple" analysis went into detail as to how Jobs arranged senior management and what their responsibilities were. And he was the head of it all and gave the direction as well as came up with the primary ideas.
Cook is obviously very different, the classic business manager. Can Cook effectively manage the ideas pipeline at Apple? Decide what project to pursue and what to drop? I don't believe he can actually. He is now solely dependant on his direct reports. So how can he decide what products to go with? He does not have Jobs's intuition and vision. And he has now handed Ive a huge brief...
People are lauding Ive but lets break it down. Ive designed the pretty boxes that Apple software ran in. And Jobs was always very clear about everything they did at Apple, it's all about the software...In Job's own words, "It comes in a beautiful box, but it's still software." So why has Cook now brought Ive into the software side? There were no two people closer at Apple than Jobs and Ive, Jobs adored Ive yet he never saw fit to handing him the power Cook just has...
So Forestall was difficult to work with and abrasive.....went off on tangents...remind you of anyone?
Lets hope Cook is not just surrounding himself with Yes men. That's a recipe for disaster.
I largely agree with this. Surely if Ive wanted/was needed in software this would have been brought up so many times in the past and acted on if there was substance to it. Forstall seems crazy and pushy but that's what gives Apple its spark. It never has been about stripped out minimalist until very recently.
Having said that, I do feel like iOS needs a kick up the arse at this point in terms of consistency across the UI
So Scott is a douche just like Steve. Only now no one is afraid to speak up since Steve is gone.
I like the skeuomorphic features a lot.
It's those little things that make the difference between mere "products" and something precious - in the sense of "they really tried to make it something special. They care. They seem to have fun making those things". I do not think this is "waste of time". It is respect and appreciation.
If I want an interface without any nice features I open a command line window. (Which is, btw, also much nicer on OS X than on any other system I had to work with)
While Ive has done some great creations it is by itself all quite cold and liveless. He needs a counterpart to bring life into his stuff.
I hope Forstall will get his own company and develop a great OS with lots of skeuomorphic features.
Basically they do have you by the balls for a certain amount of time in some situations.