Should I leave apple ecosystem in light of CSAM?

[dk001]

On device scanning has existed since the beginning. Your email, your text messages, the contents of your files, faces in photos… that’s how searching for things on the phone works… everything you might want to find is scanned, indexed, and counted. So I’m not sure how you would have a useful computer if it didn’t scan and index your information.

LMAO!!!
Not like this.
On device scanning for illegal material.
A scanner that is invisible to the user, scans, reports violations to authorities.

Kindly show me where else this exists.

 

[one more]

Despite the rhetoric, the on device scan that Apple is trying does little to clean the iCloud CSAM issue. Kind of like filtering toilet water. All the previous crap is still there. Untouched.

I agree that Apple do not need to do this on the device. Further, their safeguards of having at least 30 confirmed CSAM pieces for an alarm to be triggered and the possibility of disabling everything by turning off iCloud Photos kind of defeats the purpose of the whole scheme. It seems to be ill-designed from the start, so I am wondering what kind of “rethinking” and changes Apple are going to come up with now.

 

[keeper]

OK a question for those that left but are still here.

What did you replace Apple services with that provides you with end to end availability of access to messaging, photo’s , documents, calendar , passwords, bookmarks etc etc across all your new devises, desktop, tablet , mobile, watch.

How is the new service mare secure and provide you with more privacy than what Apple currently provides?
I only know one person moved to Linux, but they just provides the desktop and no cloud services.

I’m genially interested to see what people implemented to replace hardware and cloud and how it compares.

 

[Wildkraut]

Well the issue here is that Apple is doing this on device, Apple turns iCloud on by default, and Apple does not provide a way to exclude or actively choose the photos you want uploaded to iCloud. E.g. if you use Onedrive, you can choose what you want to upload or not. E.g. stuff that could lead to industry espionage or privacy issues, you can simply exclude. Or you can choose to upload the kitty videos, but not the striptease of your GF.

With Apple’s iCloud its “all on” on nothing, thats why i go for “nothing”.

 

[vir]

Apple is strange.

 

[eltoslightfoot]

OK a question for those that left but are still here.

What did you replace Apple services with that provides you with end to end availability of access to messaging, photo’s , documents, calendar , passwords, bookmarks etc etc across all your new devises, desktop, tablet , mobile, watch.

How is the new service mare secure and provide you with more privacy than what Apple currently provides?
I only know one person moved to Linux, but they just provides the desktop and no cloud services.

I’m genially interested to see what people implemented to replace hardware and cloud and how it compares.

I gave up on all that stuff. Everyone scans in the cloud, so I made my own cloud. I shut off location and carefully checked permissions on Android 12 (Pixel 5a). I only turn location on when I need it. removed all telemetry from Windows 10 on my gaming PC and my surface pro.

The thing is my personal cloud does allow me to share files Dropbox style and automatically move photos into it. So I get close, but it's mine.

For watch, I use a galaxy active 2, but I shut off all location use, and give it no access. I don't even use the health settings except on the watch. Then again I wouldn't do that anymore on the Apple side after going to privacy.apple.com.

For bookmarks, I use firefox sync. It works great. For passwords I use bitwarden and pay for the sync $12 a year.

 

[dk001]

…
For watch, I use a galaxy active 2, but I shut off all location use, and give it no access. I don't even use the health settings except on the watch. Then again I wouldn't do that anymore on the Apple side after going to privacy.apple.com.

For bookmarks, I use firefox sync. It works great. For passwords I use bitwarden and pay for the sync $12 a year.

I too was very surprised when id the privacy check on both of my Apple accounts.

 

[Mendota]

You have a freedom to go to the peasant system Android too. No ones stopping ya.
I don’t care about this program. Let it catch some predators, no ***** given to me

"Peasant system?" Okay, so you are one of those. I have news for you, owning certain products does not make you a superior person. And if Android is so "peasant", why does Apple keep copying their features? Everything "new" that shows up on Apple came first in Android. If this feature works the way Apple claims, it will catch fewer predators than systems used by others.

 

[Mendota]

Mutual of Omaha’s Wild Kingdom.

I live in Omaha.

 

[crymimefireworks]

He seems to think it's bad to trust policy because it's easier to change. Well, it isn't difficult to change code either.

Personally, I have come to the conclusion several years ago that you can't have good privacy without good policy. Trusting technology won't work. Therefore I only choose companies in which I trust and have a good policy.

Checkout the idea of trustless architecture. Basically, build systems and technology where you cannot trust policies. This is where E2EE works for example, you assume everyone else is a potential attacker. Just send "noise" through the internet pipes, who cares what they do to it because it's encrypted.

 

[crymimefireworks]

The CSAM Detection system is inefficient for being misused by powerful governments. There are many other technologies in the iPhone already which are much better suited for surveillance of the population or finding people with unpopular opinions.

If I was living in a country where I considered the government my enemy, the CSAM Detection System would be quite low on my list of worries.

Also I live in a country without an oppressive government. In fact, I trust all three branches of government for the most port including the police. I trust my phone company, my bank, my insurance company, my neighbours and even most strangers.

I advocate for trustless systems on behalf of others who do not have these things. Journalists, whistleblowers, citizens in impoverished nations. Life is pretty sweet for me, and I want others to have the same if they so desire.

 

[crymimefireworks]

Leaving Apple, not this forum. 😆

I'm looking for a new home. Definitely respect the community here, especially the moderating team is top notch. Look for a new place where privacy and open source are common ground.

 

[crymimefireworks]

I get it, but why so much mistrust? I mean, a simple hammer or scissors can cause a lot of harm if misused. Craig’s interview indeed did sound somewhat apologetic to me and the journalist could also have asked him some more interesting questions, starting from why could not Apple scan the iCloud contents to begin with, instead of choosing to do it on the devices themselves? It would still serve their intended purpose, but would probably have less resistance. 🤷🏻‍♂️

You are #400 posts into one of many threads on this. Sorry about the confusion, go check out the discussions there. It's been discussed repeatedly, so I'll spare you and others from repeating it again.

 

[dk001]

I'm looking for a new home. Definitely respect the community here, especially the moderating team is top notch. Look for a new place where privacy and open source are common ground.

If you find one kindly share. Thx!

 

[crymimefireworks]

If you find one kindly share. Thx!

I've taken a liking to System76/Pop OS and their online communities on Reddit and Mattermore. What I like about them is their attitude that Linux should "just work" and that you don't need to be a computer mechanic to get your work done with Linux.

 

[dk001]

I've taken a liking to System76/Pop OS and their online communities on Reddit and Mattermore. What I like about them is their attitude that Linux should "just work" and that you don't need to be a computer mechanic to get your work done with Linux.

Thx!
I’ll have to check them out.

 

[M5RahuL]

It's going right over your feathered head, isn't it.

That quite befitting for a great majority of Apple's customers, and exactly what Apple is banking on!!

 

[djlythium]

There seems to be a buzz that iCloud backups are not e2e encrypted, but Apple’s site says iCloud backups are so: https://support.apple.com/en-gb/HT202303

What am I missing?

EDIT: found a link explaining my mis-understanding: https://macmost.com/forum/how-to-achieve-end-to-end-encryption-on-icloud-drive.html

Sigh. Really had high hopes for Apple stance on privacy, and some things are great (e.g., Safari anti-tracking enhancements, Private Relay, etc.), but looks like I’ll need to find a new place for my sensitive docs than iCloud Drive.

 

[zkap]

About the "you can just turn it off if you don't like it" argument regarding CSAM and Photos/iMessage, I've had iMessage turn itself on three times in the past week or so, twice on iPhone and once on iPad. I know I turned it off both in iCloud settings and in Messages in the Settings app, but this is consistent with Apple's performance software-wise. Imagine how well the actual CSAM technology will work!

 

[mrex]

How would the ”ecosystem” work, when you turn off everything syncing via icloud? It doesnt work at all, so whats the point having ”ecosystem”?

 

[Octavius8]

Yes, if you have something to hide or are high profile politician. Otherwise there is no impact for regular folks. N o n e.

 

[dk001]

Yes, if you have something to hide or are high profile politician. Otherwise there is no impact for regular folks. N o n e.

Try reading these and tell me if your stance is still the same.
Thx.

In Letter to Apple CEO, 90+ Organizations Urge Tim Cook to Scrap Plans to Weaken Digital Privacy and Security

(WASHINGTON)—-A coalition of more than 90 U.S. and international organizations dedicated to civil rights, digital rights, and human rights today sent a letter to Apple CEO Tim Cook urging Apple to abandon its plans to build surveillance capabilities into its iPhones, iPads, and other products...

cdt.org

German parliament pens letter to Tim Cook with concerns over CSAM detection system - 9to5Mac

The Digital Agenda committee chief of the German parliament wants Apple to reconsider its CSAM plans in a letter to Tim Cook.

9to5mac.com

 

[Lee_Bo]

Yes, if you have something to hide or are high profile politician. Otherwise there is no impact for regular folks. N o n e.

Or if you’re asking in a public forum if you should leave Apple, then maybe you should.

Bottom line is we can give you 1000 reasons to stay and 1000 reasons to leave. YOU have to make the choice.

For me, no worries. All Apple will see are several TB’s of wildlife and landscape photos.

 

[eltoslightfoot]

Or if you’re asking in a public forum if you should leave Apple, then maybe you should.

Bottom line is we can give you 1000 reasons to stay and 1000 reasons to leave. YOU have to make the choice.

For me, no worries. All Apple will see are several TB’s of wildlife and landscape photos.

NO worries here either. Apple will see zero of anything since I have no personal apple devices any longer.

 

[crymimefireworks]

Or if you’re asking in a public forum if you should leave Apple, then maybe you should.

Bottom line is we can give you 1000 reasons to stay and 1000 reasons to leave. YOU have to make the choice.

For me, no worries. All Apple will see are several TB’s of wildlife and landscape photos.

What about worries for journalists, whistleblowers, and political refugees around the world as this program grows and is manipulated by politicians?