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Should I leave apple ecosystem in light of CSAM?
- Thread starter wirtandi
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- csam
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On device scanning or CSS (Client Side Scanning) has been around for a while. There are privacy, legal, security, and other issues that have “warned” off anyone trying it on public users and researchers have pretty much all said it’s fraught with risk Even if there were laws passed to force it. Then there are the legal challenges and Constitutional challenges.
Knowing all this (I am assuming Apple has done their due diligence) Apple is apparently trying it anyway. It is concerning when a company that touts privacy looks to launch something that affects millions of users and their justification is “think of the children” AND every privacy and security group is against them.
The argument was substantively different back then. They didn't possess the ability to do provide local storage access. This time the ability will be there.
No, that's not correct. The whole controversy was that Apple COULD have created a back door for the FBI to access the shooter's phone, but they refused to. Obviously the FBI wouldn't have been angry at Apple for not doing something they couldn't do.
Heh, all of my music is either ripped from CDs (not illegal), purchased from iTunes, or downloaded for free from various websites that were giving away the music (also not illegal).
Most of the artists I listen to willingly give away their music anyway as long as you follow them on SoundCloud/FaceBook/Twitter or something.
As for movies, I prefer owning physical Blu-Rays.
That's not really how this system works. The files on the device are secure until uploaded to iCloud. No iCloud means no access to those files.
If one has illegal CSAM images on their phone, they shouldn't have privacy. For those that do not have CSAM images, their privacy is not effected.
Don't think a right that you never had can be taken away.
So many people don't realize that your phone is completely blind to the matching. There's no way for your phone to know if a match has been found or not, it's only until the file is uploaded to the server that a match can be identified. This makes the system even more private. Apple DOESN'T want to know what your photos look like, they ONLY want to know whether CSAM is being copied to their servers or not.
Exactly. It's unbelievable how many don't understand this (or claim they do but then talk as if it's not true).
To be fair, Apple claims it is:
HOWEVER, they have never meant by that that everything you do within the Apple ecosystem is 100% private. This is what so many people on this forum (not you) can't seem to understand. They act like it's black and white. When it comes to iCloud, they are up front about the fact that your information is subject to review in order to enforce their own TOS and to cooperate with law enforcement.
But if someone with child porn or anything else on their phone wants to ensure that remains private, they have a choice NOT to use any iCloud-related services.
That is where really differ on this subject; you are looking only as far as CSAM. I’m looking at Apple’s proposed solution.
While many may not, the majority (judging from posts, articles, videos, and letters) are objecting to scanning for this on device and the restrictions Apple has imposed on it (ex: transparency and audit). CSAM identification is just the carrot to entice buy-in.
If what you’re saying is true, then any company could be scanning for anything and you’d have no idea. Whether is solely done on the server or the hybrid solution Apple proposed, they can all be abused. How is this any different? How is this particular method more susceptible to being abused? The entire thing DEPENDS on iCloud to even function. If you can’t see that, then I can’t help you.
This is a completely baseless conjecture on your part that you're stating as if it were a fact.
I have photos of me washing my kids in the bath from birth.
Will that be flagged as "CSAM"?
What's the definition of CSAM? Can't find it anywhere.
Will that be flagged as "CSAM"?
What's the definition of CSAM? Can't find it anywhere.
The proposed solution doesn't affect your privacy. It affects your ability to store illegal images on icloud. That is not the same as affecting your privacy.
CSAM stands for "Child Sexual Abuse Material" - which means images or video depicting children being exploited for sexual gratification. if you had typed CSAM into Google, you would have gotten tons of results, so I'm not sure how it's possible you didn't find any definition of it anywhere. You couldn't have looked very hard.
And, no, obviously photos of you washing your kids in the bath are not CSAM. Please. Besides, they are only matching file hashes of known CSAM images.
That is one of the concerns.
This tool could be potentially used in a number of ways. Apple’s claim of “we won’t allow it” only works so far. Hence the call for additional detail along with transparency and audits.
“We wouldn’t know” and “only if iCloud” are not compatible claims.
To your point, Apple could make the iCloud setting immaterial and you would not know.
There is far too much we don’t know or fully understand about this and Apple’s silence isn’t helping.
Why CSS is the start.
Sorry online person. I am one of many making that claim including some very professional folks/groups.
We disagree on this.
CSS solution as designed by Apple IMO (and many others) is an invasion of my privacy.
Ok then provide your evidence and data that supports your claim.
If big bad Apple took you to court could you prove the facts that this is what they intend?
Of course not , this whole thing is getting so far off it’s unbelievable.
I wish you luck in a quest to find privacy in the modern online world, I guess the FBI with the help of Apple could be tracking you down now……….lol.
This should help.
Child Sexual Abuse Material
Child pornography, better described as child sexual abuse materials, is illegal! It re-traumatizes a victim every time the material is shared online and has lasting damage.
If you want to know more:
Then let them scan their servers. Why do they need to have scanning software on a phone? Why has it waited until now if this was such a concern. It’s literally not a concern that they have mentioned before. So again, why now?
Here’s the bottom line and the way I see it from a business perspective:
Look through these forums. Go back years...all the way back to the early days of icloud, macs, iphones, ipads and see the feature request people were asking/hoping for in the next version of the OS. You won’t find anyone saying “gee, I hope the next version of the OS has CSAM scanning capabilities, that’s what I’m looking for!”. So I am of the mindset that if customers aren’t asking for something, then you as a business shouldn’t be forcing it upon their phones in any way either. Instead, you should be focused on what they actually ARE asking for whether it be camera upgrades, more stable software, more storage, better keyboards in laptops...whatever.
Apple is now treating every single one of it’s icloud users as guilty until proven innocent and acting as a proxy of law enforcement. I don’t think that’s their role, and I don’t like the nanny state thing they are doing.