Should I leave apple ecosystem in light of CSAM?

[dk001]

Ok then provide your evidence and data that supports your claim.
If big bad Apple took you to court could you prove the facts that this is what they intend?

Of course not , this whole thing is getting so far off it’s unbelievable.
I wish you luck in a quest to find privacy in the modern online world, I guess the FBI with the help of Apple could be tracking you down now……….lol.

Nicely taken out of context.

The problem is you are asking me to go back and collect all the links posted in several threads by members on this forum. If you have read through even a couple of these threads you would not need ask.

Instead ask yourself why every privacy and security agency out there that has commented on this topic has come out against what Apple is trying to do. Even the NCMEC board (according to a couple of interviews) is split on this due to the privacy implications.

I suppose I could haul all of them in to testify …

 

[keeper]

 

[dk001]

View attachment 1829220

Good one!

aka Politics and Major Media

 

[usagora]

Sorry online person. I am one of many making that claim including some very professional folks/groups.

Sorry, fellow online person, but appeal to authority is a logical fallacy in this instance, since we're talking about trying to read Apple's mind. All the qualifications in the world wouldn't make one person's guess on that any more valid than someone else's.

 

[I7guy]

We disagree on this.
CSS solution as designed by Apple IMO (and many others) is an invasion of my privacy.

It's not that I am for this, on many levels, even if it is legal, it's creepy. But I don't view this as an invasion on my privacy.

 

[dk001]

Sorry, fellow online person, but appeal to authority is a logical fallacy in this instance, since we're talking about trying to read Apple's mind. All the qualifications in the world wouldn't make one person's guess on that any more valid than someone else's.

I’m not trying to read Apple’s mind.
These are what I feel (and many others) legitimate concerns in the absence of answers from Apple.

Professional opinion vs Layman opinion

 

[dk001]

It's not that I am for this, on many levels, even if it is legal, it's creepy. But I don't view this as an invasion on my privacy.

That’s cool.

 

[usagora]

I’m not trying to read Apple’s mind.
These are what I feel (and many others) legitimate concerns in the absence of answers from Apple.

Then you need to state it as a concern instead of an assumed fact. You said:

CSAM identification is just the carrot to entice buy-in.

That's not the same thing as saying, "I just hope CSAM identification isn't just a carrot to entice us to accept a technology that they plan to use for more invasive purposes in the future."

 

[dk001]

Then you need to state it as a concern instead of an assumed fact. You said:



That's not the same thing as saying, "I just hope CSAM identification isn't just a carrot to entice us to accept a technology that they plan to use for more invasive purposes in the future."

Chuckle 😂 😂 😂 😂
Your “rewording” of my statement changes the context. “Hope?”
Just for you I’ll think about adding “IMO” to everything I post.

Maybe.
Maybe not.

 

[Jayson A]

Chuckle 😂 😂 😂 😂
Your “rewording” of my statement changes the context. “Hope?”
Just for you I’ll think about adding “IMO” to everything I post.

Maybe.
Maybe not.

That's exactly it. You can come up with theories all day, but that doesn't mean it's definitely going to happen. The stuff I post is mostly directly from Apple themselves and how they've explained how it works and that's pretty much all we can go by because everything else is a theory.

 

[dk001]

That's exactly it. You can come up with theories all day, but that doesn't mean it's definitely going to happen. The stuff I post is mostly directly from Apple themselves and how they've explained how it works and that's pretty much all we can go by because everything else is a theory.

In absence of information, questions can have many possible answers.
Known concerns (issues with CSS on user devices) has been discussed for while. Long before Apple’s announcement.

 

[usagora]

Chuckle 😂 😂 😂 😂
Your “rewording” of my statement changes the context. “Hope?”
Just for you I’ll think about adding “IMO” to everything I post.

Maybe.
Maybe not.

No, you didn't even say it was an opinion in the last post I replied to - you said it was a concern. Being concerned that something might be the case isn't the same as saying you believe it to BE the case. Concern, no matter how unreasonable, is one thing. But forming an opinion/belief that something is a certain way without evidence to support that opinion is quite another.

 

[Jayson A]

In absence of information, questions can have many possible answers.
Known concerns (issues with CSS on user devices) has been discussed for while. Long before Apple’s announcement.

In absence of information, scream the sky is falling and ditch apple. It's the right thing to do.

 

[usagora]

In absence of information, questions can have many possible answers.

Sounds like the mantra of every conspiracy theorist. And no matter how much info you give them, it's never enough. They'll always assert that at least SOME info is being held back (or the info has been doctored) so they can keep the "conspiracy" alive. If the conspiracy is "disproven," then they have no purpose left in life, LOL!

Believe it or not, just because every question you have about seomthing isn't answered doesn't mean there's a conspiracy or otherwise bad thing going on.

 

[Jayson A]

Sounds like the mantra of every conspiracy theorist. And no matter how much info you give them, it's never enough. They'll always assert that at least SOME info is being held back (or the info has been doctored) so they can keep the "conspiracy" alive. If the conspiracy is "disproven," then they have no purpose left in life, LOL!

Believe it or not, just because every question you have about seomthing isn't answered doesn't mean there's a conspiracy or otherwise bad thing going on.

But WHY is Apple doing this? 😉

 

[keeper]

But WHY is Apple doing this? 😉

Because all these people will sell all the Apple toys, then once they realise they were wrong and hate what they bought and will buy Apple again……….Boom

 

[usagora]

But WHY is Apple doing this? 😉

Obviously to conspire with every government in the world to spy on its citizens. In return, Apple will be given a legalized monopoly over every area of business which they currently operate in addition to huge payoffs. How do I know this? Well, believe me, I just do. Just wait and see!

 

[crymimefireworks]

Because all these people will sell all the Apple toys, then once they realise they were wrong and hate what they bought and will buy Apple again……….Boom

haha! I bought into Apple because they supported privacy as a human right. So when they abandoned that, why would I continue with them?

If Apple went all in on open source software and hardware and end to end encryption that would be great. But they won't

 

[cyanite]

There is no privacy anymore. There hasn't been any real privacy for at least the last 20-30 years.

This is ridiculous hyperbole. iMessage, for instance, is end to end encrypted, especially if you don’t use iCloud backup. There are many other examples.

 

[keeper]

In absence of information, scream the sky is falling and ditch apple. It's the right thing to do.

Unless we are in the Matrix and non of this is real, how do we know?
Who will take which pill?

 

[Bandaman]

This is ridiculous hyperbole. iMessage, for instance, is end to end encrypted, especially if you don’t use iCloud backup. There are many other examples.

Yes, but if the other person you're messaging has iCloud back up turned on for iMessage, it's irrelevant. It's only situational encryption, not true encryption. It's not end to end if it's unencrypted in iCloud.

 

[keeper]

Yes, but if the other person you're messaging has iCloud back up turned on for iMessage, it's irrelevant. It's only situational encryption, not true encryption. It's not end to end if it's unencrypted in iCloud.

• iMessage and FaceTime are end-to-end encrypted. The phone number or email address you use is shown to the people you contact, and you can choose to share your name and photo.
• Apple retains limited information about the use of iMessage and FaceTime, such as when you attempted a FaceTime call and whether your device is eligible to use iMessage, for up to 30 days.
• Messages are backed up in iCloud and encrypted if you enable iCloud Backup or Messages in iCloud.

iMessage and FaceTime & Privacy

iMessage and FaceTime are designed to protect your information and enable you to choose what you share.

support.apple.com

 

[keeper]

Of course, even iMessage is much better than traditional text messages. SMS messages aren’t even private or secure when you’re sending and receiving them! Your cellular carrier can see their contents.

Are you sure your iMessage is encrypted? Blue > Green.

Do you know when Apple Messages send end-to-end encrypted messages? This note might look unusual but it was sparked by continuous questions I receive about communication confidentiality. If you’re well-versed in security and privacy technology - feel free to skip, most likely you won’t find...

blog.lukaszolejnik.com

 

[Bandaman]

• iMessage and FaceTime are end-to-end encrypted. The phone number or email address you use is shown to the people you contact, and you can choose to share your name and photo.
• Apple retains limited information about the use of iMessage and FaceTime, such as when you attempted a FaceTime call and whether your device is eligible to use iMessage, for up to 30 days.
• Messages are backed up in iCloud and encrypted if you enable iCloud Backup or Messages in iCloud.

iMessage and FaceTime & Privacy

iMessage and FaceTime are designed to protect your information and enable you to choose what you share.

support.apple.com

I could have sworn Apple has given iCloud-stored iMessages to authorities.

 

[keeper]

I’m just pointing you to the support documents.

However in the paranoid Apple universe you may want to consider the below, so i guess it’s back to smoke signals.


No single messaging app can perfectly meet everyone’s security and communication needs, so we can’t make a recommendation without considering the details of a particular person’s or group’s situation. Straightforward answers are rarely correct for everyone—and if they’re correct now, they might not be correct in the future.

Why We Can’t Give You A Recommendation

No single messaging app can perfectly meet everyone’s security and communication needs, so we can’t make a recommendation without considering the details of a particular person’s or group’s situation. Straightforward answers are rarely correct for everyone—and if they’re correct now, they might...

www.eff.org

So you may as well just use iMessage and get on with life, some apple bashers will now let common sense get in the way.