They could just switch to nuclear batteries. Then no more need for recharging your phone or cables for fifty years. /s
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Other Should the EU force Apple to adopt a universal charger?
- Thread starter Drosera
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Forcing usage of a certain charging port is a little different than not allowing materials that could kill people in their sleep. The USB-C debate isn't that serious.
No
Private company, this is wrong on all levels.
Where does it end if not No
Would you be in favour of just letting all private companies that trade in the common market, use whatever materials, ignore standards and operate completely unregulated?
It’s environmental though much like how cars are regulated on emissions. It all helps.
Absolutely not. What if better tech evolves later to no port or even a new more advance port allowing for speed, faster charging options? Why would a European body be the one to determine what is best? The lightening market is large enough to sustain two chargers.
That I can agree on, I just would rather see this specifically not come as a mandate from the government. When this talk first started, micro USB was the port being discussed 🤢
That I can agree on, I just would rather see this specifically not come as a mandate from the government. When this talk first started, micro USB was the port being discussed
I don’t think the government would specifically decide on the tech but take advice from the tech industry as to what the most universal option is. I know most Android devices now use USB-C and my iPad Air uses it, yet my iPhone has a lightning port? Let’s have a common port that suits all manufacturers.
If USB-C is government-mandated, I wonder what would come after USB-C, if anything. There was a time, not so long ago that the EU wanted to mandate mini-USB. Had they done that, would we have USB-C as an option today?
If it was just about charging it wouldn't be such a big deal, but it's also about data transfer, accessories, software restore, etc. For charging alone nearly anything would work. Heck, we've had the same standards for mains power connectors, lightbulbs, etc. for over a century.
But USB-C is not just power. Compare USB-C or Lighning capability compared to mini-USB... assuming wireless doesn't entirely replace wired data/power transfer, consider the evolution of data interconnect standards over the years. What wired interconnect capabilities might be needed in 10-15 years, and would the USB-C connector be able to deliver them?
As far as I'm concerned, USB-C is already a kludge, with a variety of optional capabilities and implementations. Even USB-C cables are not "universal." What might this "standard" look like in another 15 years of upgrades/additions if government has essentially mandated the use of that connector "forever." The impact will extend beyond smartphones, of course - people will demand USB-C on their computers for as long as their smartphones have USB-C connectors.
If it was just about charging it wouldn't be such a big deal, but it's also about data transfer, accessories, software restore, etc. For charging alone nearly anything would work. Heck, we've had the same standards for mains power connectors, lightbulbs, etc. for over a century.
But USB-C is not just power. Compare USB-C or Lighning capability compared to mini-USB... assuming wireless doesn't entirely replace wired data/power transfer, consider the evolution of data interconnect standards over the years. What wired interconnect capabilities might be needed in 10-15 years, and would the USB-C connector be able to deliver them?
As far as I'm concerned, USB-C is already a kludge, with a variety of optional capabilities and implementations. Even USB-C cables are not "universal." What might this "standard" look like in another 15 years of upgrades/additions if government has essentially mandated the use of that connector "forever." The impact will extend beyond smartphones, of course - people will demand USB-C on their computers for as long as their smartphones have USB-C connectors.
Yes. Lightening is obviously on its way out. It’s confusing enough that Apple ships some devices with lightening and some with usb-c. I fully expect 2022’s iPhones to move to usb / port less anyhow.
I wish Apple would stop with the ‘consumer choice’ PR speak. What this really means is:
‘We don’t want to retool our older devices to usb-c as that really affects our profits’
I wish Apple would stop with the ‘consumer choice’ PR speak. What this really means is:
‘We don’t want to retool our older devices to usb-c as that really affects our profits’
Well, Roku and Amazon Fire TV still use the former mini-USB standard, to this day. They are power cables versus charging cables. That technology is still common in other devices. I don't see any reason for Apple to be forced into doing anything.
Telling Apple what to do?! Giggles!!
Telling Apple what to do?! Giggles!!
For transfer speed "WiFi 6" and as far as charging goes lithium polymer and lithium ion can only be charged safely to around 5c(five time the discharge rate). Inside the iPhone the battery is packed in pretty tight 3c-4c is pushing the limits of heat dissipatio, you won’t be able to charge a cell phone battery at 100 watts until there is a huge leap in battery technology.
Think it makes sense. Also, I keep hearing people say “what if this law had been passed when micro usb was a thing, we’d be stuck with that”. But that’s not right, because the proposal has clauses designed to update the standards to keep pace with new tech. So had this been passed years ago, we would have just had new standards and been in the same usb c world we’re in today, but everyone would have had to comply with those standards the whole time.
NO - it is not for governments to decide how products are designed.
Apple will NEVER add a USB-C port to iPhones. They will fight it, and if they lose, they will just include a dongle converter.
Apple will NEVER add a USB-C port to iPhones. They will fight it, and if they lose, they will just include a dongle converter.
I get your point, but Lightning is also a kludge and not universal. I think this will always be the case for a connector type that spans multiple gens and product types.
Lets see - replace cables at home, work, brief case, etc. Certainly, in the short term isn't going to save waste.
Governments intervene all the time in product design and technology. Apple is part of the USB-C consortium so it's not like Apple is an outsider. In the case of USB-C standardization, it is an open cross-industry standard so any claims of corruption behind the push for standardization falls a bit flat.
In fact, in 2019 the USB-C Consortium started to implement a USB-C Authentication Program that is very similar to the type of controls that Apple places on Lightning connector manufacturers. The difference is, Apple can only publish the requirements for authentication, they can't charge a license fee for devices to carry that authentication.
Sure, they might be able to charge a fee to authenticate a particular design, but they can't charge a per-unit fee.
Without a compelling reason to stick with the Lightning connector, and especially since USB-C is on the other end of the cord I applaud this move.
The EU also has a standardized electric car plug compared to the 3 different types we have in the US. The obvious issue here is how does the next standard come about and get agreed on without being a gridlock.
The EU also has a standardized electric car plug compared to the 3 different types we have in the US. The obvious issue here is how does the next standard come about and get agreed on without being a gridlock.
I'm not necessarily arguing in favor of Lightning. It's proprietary, so it would never become a universal solution. No, this is about what I consider the folly of mandating any connector for "power" when the connector does far more than power. If all you'll ever do with a connector is draw 110 (or 220) VAC from mains power or 5 VDC at various current levels from a wall wart, then it's easy to declare a long-lived standard. As soon as data travels through the same connector/cable you have to allow for change and evolution, because our thirst for more data at higher speeds has yet to be slaked.
I'd quibble over whether Lightning is a kludge. A kludge by definition is an inelegant solution; a Rube Goldberg. However, Lightning is quite elegant in design, purpose-built by one manufacturer to suit its specific needs. Does Lightning's embedded chip make it a kludge? A matter of philosophy and opinion. There's an elegance to passive point-to-point wires/connectors, but one of the prices paid is that a 16-pin connector like Lightning (or 24-pin like USB-C) would need to be polarized to ensure insertion in a specific orientation. It's kind of nice to be able to ignore orientation/polarization with Lightning and USB-C. Compare that to the fumbling around one has with a measley 4-pin USB-A. For me, the line between elegance and kludge is drawn with USB-C, due to its support for optional functions and multiple standards ("power" vs. not) - a device or cable can be built with a USB-C connector and still not be compatible with other devices/cables using that same connector. Needing the "right kind" of USB-C cable for certain purposes defeats the whole point of universality - either every cable one buys (or comes bundled with a piece of gear) needs to be USB-C power-certified, or you may as well have different connectors on one or both ends.
I've dealt professionally with the whole issue of interconnect cables/connectors for nearly 50 years - pro and consumer audio and video, computers, and other computing devices. Pro A/V gear used different interconnect cables and standards than consumer A/V gear, and in pro environments we often chose to use consumer gear that then required myriad adaptors, matching/balancing transformers, and even signal amplifiers to bring them into line with the pro standards. Would life have been wonderful if there had been just one cable to rule them all, one cable to find them, one cable to bring them all and in the darkness bind them? Yeah, but since there were many good, completely understandable reasons for all (well most) of those different cables and standards... you live with it. As often was said of Sauron's One Ring (and Celebrimbor's three Elven rings), it would have been best had they never been forged.
For many decades, there was no one, "standard" wall wart/power block. They delivered a wide range of DC (or AC) voltages and currents. The output cable was permanently affixed/non-replaceable. There were dozens of connectors on the far ends of those cables, with no fixed standards as to what connector delivered what. So the situation today, where nearly every power brick for portable computing devices has either a USB-A or USB-C connector that allows the highly durable brick to live on while the inherently more fragile cable can be replaced at need... Wonderful! And there is just a handful of connector types at the other end of the cable, each adhering to clear standards - Lighting, USB-C, mini-USB (am I missing any?). Would it be nice if things were even simpler? Sure. If it could be.
I can certainly live with Apple switching everything to USB-C. Other than the slightly greater bulk of the connector vs. Lightning and my opinions about USB-C's kludginess... No problem; USB-C would get the job done. I simply don't want a regional government ramming it down the rest of the world's throats (Apple certainly wouldn't produce iPhone 14 with USB-C in the EU and Lightning elsewhere). I want the industry to be free to move in its usual, self-interested way from USB-C to whatever comes next (fiberoptic?), whenever the time is right to do it. It was hard enough for the standards-setting committees to come up with USB-C (the various options built into the standard are Exhibit A). If EU (and the rest of the world's governments) had the right to sit in on the design and standards-setting process for the next big connector... oy vay!
Here's a prediction for you... If the world did standardize on USB-C for powering every piece of portable/handheld electronics, manufacturers would stop supplying cables with their gear, just as they've already begun to do with charging blocks. After all, isn't that the purpose of the EU mandate - reducing waste by eliminating the need to have so many different cables and chargers? If, a few years from now, you curse manufacturers for increasing their profit by making all cables and charging blocks optional... send a thank-you note to the EU.
Why? iPads use USB-C with no issues. I get the impression it’s imminent on iPhones anyway. Why do you think they’d fight against using it? I remember when Apple sold lightning port iPhones and the old connector on the iPad 3 yet iPads eventually adopted lightning. Not sure what the motive would be not to evolve when it comes to the iPhone but there are some strange theories out there.
I believe that this is only being imposed on phones that do not have wireless charging. In 2 years when it comes into being iphone will be portless
Do I think that Apple should move all their devices to USB so we can use a common cable/charger/etc.? Yes, absolutely. It's silly the phones still use lightning connectors.
Do I think a government should be in the business of telling a private company what kind of chargers their devices have to use? No, no I do not.
Do I think a government should be in the business of telling a private company what kind of chargers their devices have to use? No, no I do not.
Lots of people here are reflexively 'anti gov vs private companies', I've noticed.
Yes, governments are not always right - however, gvt (and international agreements) have given us things like:
3G, 4G, 5G common data standards
So you can move to different networks with the same device.
I'm sure no-one wouldn't enjoy only being able to buy telco X's iPhone that ONLY works with telco X's network.
I mean they're a private company, they should be able to do what they want, right?
Common power (i.e. in the wall!) plug socket format and electricity voltages
Again, I'm sure that no-one would enjoy buying an an item that only worked with power supplied by elecCo Y etc.
Common Railway gauges
So trains run by different companies can run on the same track, across countries (and in the case of Europe, across the entire continent).
Or maybe we should allow company X to have a different gauge to company Y?
In fact, this all happened in the early years of railways and standardisation followed as it was more efficient etc.
I'm sure that I don't have to push the analogy too hard, here.
The list goes on (food standards, measurement standards, etc.).
In fact there's lots of things that are regulated in our societies - I think that most people would miss them if we allowed companies to do what they wanted.
Yes, governments are not always right - however, gvt (and international agreements) have given us things like:
3G, 4G, 5G common data standards
So you can move to different networks with the same device.
I'm sure no-one wouldn't enjoy only being able to buy telco X's iPhone that ONLY works with telco X's network.
I mean they're a private company, they should be able to do what they want, right?
Common power (i.e. in the wall!) plug socket format and electricity voltages
Again, I'm sure that no-one would enjoy buying an an item that only worked with power supplied by elecCo Y etc.
Common Railway gauges
So trains run by different companies can run on the same track, across countries (and in the case of Europe, across the entire continent).
Or maybe we should allow company X to have a different gauge to company Y?
In fact, this all happened in the early years of railways and standardisation followed as it was more efficient etc.
I'm sure that I don't have to push the analogy too hard, here.
The list goes on (food standards, measurement standards, etc.).
In fact there's lots of things that are regulated in our societies - I think that most people would miss them if we allowed companies to do what they wanted.
The more I read some of the arguments that people have posted in favor of the EU forcing the USB-C standard, the more I'm actually finding myself beginning to agree. I enjoy when people use good analogies and not knee-jerk, hyperbolic analogies. Some very good food for thought.