Other Should the EU force Apple to adopt a universal charger?

[The-Real-Deal82]

In economics, a luxury good (or upmarket good) is a good for which demand increases more than proportionally as income rises, so that expenditures on the good become a greater proportion of overall spending.

Luxury goods are in contrast to necessity goods, where demand increases proportionally less than income.[1] Luxury goods is often used synonymously with superior goods.

Do most people have iPhones?

I suppose I wasn’t defining it from an economics point of view and purely from a knowledge so many people have iPhones. Even some of the poorest members of my local community have iPhones due to how they are financed. A luxury good to me is one that is expensive but out of reach to most and that certainly isn’t an iPhone. Do most people have iPhones? In my area yes, it appears to be the most common brand. When I stand at the school gates there are people I know don’t work or are on very low incomes, but will stand there on an iPhone 12 or 12 Pro. Attainable luxury maybe.

 

[pshufd]

I suppose I wasn’t defining it from an economics point of view and purely from a knowledge so many people have iPhones. Even some of the poorest members of my local community have iPhones due to how they are financed. A luxury good to me is one that is expensive but out of reach to most and that certainly isn’t an iPhone. Do most people have iPhones? In my area yes, it appears to be the most common brand. When I stand at the school gates there are people I know don’t work or are on very low incomes, but will stand there on an iPhone 12 or 12 Pro. Attainable luxury maybe.

Apple is less than 20% of the market. So no, most people don't have iPhones.

 

[Drosera]

Perhaps one thing that can be agreed on is that this has been a very interesting discussion! Thanks all for your contributions.

 

[parseckadet]

It all seems rather weird for a company to change their iPad range to USB-C away from lightning, but not have the same intent for their iPhones. So already adding a charging solution used throughout the industry, but keep an older method that is defended by some because matching the iPad would cause more waste lol. I guess i’ll never get it, however it’s not causing me any harm or distress either way in the wilderness of first world problems out there.

Not sure where you're getting the impression that I'm defending the continued use of Lightning. If you go back and read my original post in this thread I actually said:

Look, I'm against having a proprietary connector just for the sake of having it and lining the pockets of a corporation on the sale of things to connect the things as much as the next person. There are plenty of reasons to advocate for the adoption of USB-C. But I don't think prevention of e-waste is one of them.
...
I honestly think the entire discussion is moot because the wireless charging ship has sailed and is leaving the harbor. We'll see a portless iPhone in either 2022 or 2023. I connected my iPhone to my computer for the first time in over a year last week, and that was just to create a backup incase something went wrong during the transfer to my new phone. I don't anticipate connecting to my computer for at least another year now, perhaps longer.

All I've said this entire time is that there are plenty of reasons Apple should ditch Lightning. Preventing e-waste just isn't one of them. I also said that I wouldn't object to Apple going entirely portless, that I think that's inevitable, and that I think we'll never see USB-C on the iPhone for that reason.

As for your objection to my suggestion, if it's too expensive for you that's fine. You presented a distinct problem and I suggested a concrete solution. If it's not to your liking that's fine.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

Apple is less than 20% of the market. So no, most people don't have iPhones.

View attachment 1859118

That’s pretty much common knowledge mate to be fair. At no point did I suggest ‘most people’ (worldwide) have iPhones. They are not niche to the point only wealthy people own them, hence my point that so many people across all demographics own them.

 

[xraydoc]

While I voted No, I think Apple should do it anyway. Lightning was a huge improvement over the old 30-pin iPod connector back in the USB-A days, USB-C pretty much covers all the benefits of Lightning, and then some.

I‘ve switched everything over to either wireless charging or USB-C (MacBook, iPad) and I keep a USB-C to Lightning adapter affixed to my USB-C cable and charger when I’m on the go. Would be nice not having to use the adapter, though. At least I’m not afraid of losing it as it loops around the cable and can’t fall away.

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[ApfelKuchen]

Poorly-constructed question. I have no problem with a universal charger (the block that plugs into the wall) - the voltage required by nearly all small electronics is consistent and defined by the common chip architectures. By all means, let those blocks use a common connector. This whole thing isn't about the charging block, it's about the cable that runs between the charging block and the device - whether it has USB-C on both ends, or whether it has USB-C on one end and something else on the equipment end.

However, a universal charging connector on the device is a different matter. The key difference is that those ports - Lighting, USB-C, USB mini (USB-A) are also used for data communications. Data port standards evolve over time because data communications requirements change - higher volumes of data tend to demand higher data communications rates, among other things. Locking the world (or even just a portion of it) into a single data communications port with no room for innovation is indeed stifling.

Had the EU had its way several years ago, USB mini would have been the declared standard, and the current capabilities of USB-C would have been unattainable until the EU saw fit to change its standard. Standards-changing would be something the EU would not do swiftly as that would run contrary to their entire stated purpose for standardizing - it would immediately obsolete all those USB mini cables and chargers.

There will be people who say that this will reduce the number of cables people carry around. Maybe they're right, maybe they're wrong. If I have three portable electronic devices to charge at the end of my day, I'm going to want to charge them all at the same time - three charging blocks, three cables. So what's the advantage for me, that I don't have to pay attention to which cable I use with which device? Now, identical charger block/cables can help reduce the need to carry spare cables in the case of possible failure - say one backup with USB-C on both ends, one Lightning to USB-C (or USB-A, considering I like to keep using old, perfectly good charging blocks). Presumably, one spare that fits all is advantageous. But that's hardly a reason to force the world to change, wholesale, to a new standard. If my next iPhone comes with a USB-C, that will obsolete a pile of perfectly functional Lighting cables I already own. How wasteful is that?

 

[rambo47]

Its not the government's job, or their right, to dictate consumer affairs like universal chargers. That's OUR responsibility as consumers. Your dollars are your votes. The last thing we need is the government dictating our decisions. What the hell do they know about ANYthing??

Laws and enforcement to protect us from abuse? Sure. All for it. But that's where it ends. And personally I don't want a bunch of career politicians wasting time on piddly consumer affairs. I'd like to think they have a bazillion more important things to worry about. Yeah, I know - making noise about being pro-consumer is good for their re-election. I'm just sick of the lot of them. </ cranky old man mode >

 

[CTHarrryH]

For me it is the all the cables I have that won't work anymore and all the cables I'll have to buy. The USB-A end plugs into everything I own and many of the places where I need to charge. So I'll end up buying a bunch of USB-C male to USB-A male cables. Just a pain to do.

 

[pshufd]

For me it is the all the cables I have that won't work anymore and all the cables I'll have to buy. The USB-A end plugs into everything I own and many of the places where I need to charge. So I'll end up buying a bunch of USB-C male to USB-A male cables. Just a pain to do.

We have four Anker USB-A 5 or 6 port chargers and a 7-port USB-A hub and they all work great. I really am not crazy about buying these for USB-C, if they even exist.

 

[UltimateSyn]

Do you remember the uproar when they switched from 30-pin to Lightning? People were SO mad! Now, I'm not saying that should cause them to stifle innovation in the name of people-pleasing forever, but I do understand their hesitation.

The vast majority of users have a million Lightning cables and really don't care at all about the enhanced benefits that USB-C would provide them. They would just see it as a pain in the ass, especially if they are deeply engrossed in the Lightning ecosystem with a ton of accessories and chargers as so many are. It's also an environment killer to leave all those hundreds of millions of cables without a purpose (yes, I do understand the counter-argument about requiring separate cables in the first place).

I do think that it's going to be time soon, though. USB-C is ubiquitous enough at this point where it might cause less transitional headaches than it would have a few years ago, now that a lot of people own other devices that already caused them to buy USB-C cables. I wish they could physically develop a port that accepted USB-C cables as well as Lightning cables, that'd be cool.

 

[beerseagulls]

EU should also mandate standardized wireless charging for all smartphones(iPhones, Android, or whatever)

 

[internetrando]

I have circled back to this thread, and I am still in absolute shock at how many people think the government should have any involvement in this. Regardless, the thought has occurred to me that this is *probably* going to be a complete non-issue, because I am sure that Apple is going to move to a port free design in the near future. That's the real solution for limiting waste--not the kind of ridiculous virtue signaling the EU is doing.

 

[Natrium]

While there are good arguments in favor of mandating USB C as the standard charging port, the consequences are far reaching. The EU will effectively set the standard for the entire world, since manufacturers will not be making different versions of the same product unless they really need to (socket plugs is an example).

Furthermore, the developer of future technology must first convince the EU to adopt their technology as the new standard. Since the objective is to weed out different types of charging ports, the EU will likely only be convinced if the new technology is significantly superior. So we will probably be stuck with USB C for a long time even when superior technology is available.

 

[azhava]

...Had the EU had its way several years ago, USB mini would have been the declared standard, and the current capabilities of USB-C would have been unattainable until the EU saw fit to change its standard. Standards-changing would be something the EU would not do swiftly as that would run contrary to their entire stated purpose for standardizing - it would immediately obsolete all those USB mini cables and chargers...

^ This is a valid point. Put a bureaucracy in charge of anything and it will be nearly impossible to change it in the future. You're now 100% at the mercy of politicians, many of who know little to nothing about technology and really couldn't care less. If they settled on USB-C for standardization purposes, what incentive would they have to change their standards in 3-5 years when a faster/more efficient alternative comes along? Changing again would repeat the cycle of generating a ton of e-waste, which is one of the things they were purportedly trying to avoid by forcing standardization.

It's empty virtue signaling and tyrannical government overreach. I'm not sure why or when it became such a "good" thing for the government to interfere in every aspect of our lives. Be careful what you wish for, you might not like it when you actually get it. A lot of people around the world would vouch for the fact that living under repressive authoritarian regimes isn't the nirvana it's made out to be.

I 100% think Apple should voluntarily go to USB-C connectors on the iPhone, and it would be nice if the industry as a whole would agree on a standard for electronic devices. It would be more convenient for consumers. At the same time, I don't like the slippery slope of letting the government dictate it. If the EU is able to ram this through, I'd love to see Apple go completely portless/wireless as a big 'eff you' to them. Even better would be if Apple just stopped selling any devices in the affected countries, but obviously they're not going to sacrifice such a huge chunk of revenue just to make a point.

 

[Acteon45]

Why would a company want to use Lightning? as I said several times it is inferior. It is slower (83x slower) than USB-C can be (like the ones on the MacBooks and iPad Pro which support Thunderbolt 4 protocols).

It's also if you've not noticed hardly rocking the world on charge speed compared to USB-C (100 Watts).

One reason is that many accessories (eg. Shure MV88 microphone, not exactly cheap) are made for lightning and cannot be adapted.

 

[Quu]

One reason is that many accessories (eg. Shure MV88 microphone, not exactly cheap) are made for lightning and cannot be adapted.

I don't mean to belittle what you've said as for sure people who own those kinds of products surely enjoy them and spent money on them, not little amounts of money either.

But when you look at how many iPhones have been sold and how many people buy even one lightning accessory for that phone that isn't just a cable to charge it's about 0.005%.

 

[pshufd]

I don't mean to belittle what you've said as for sure people who own those kinds of products surely enjoy them and spent money on them, not little amounts of money either.

But when you look at how many iPhones have been sold and how many people buy even one lightning accessory for that phone that isn't just a cable to charge it's about 0.005%.

I finally broke down and got the Magsafe charger and do really enjoy it.

 

[Abazigal]

I am curious as to what the EU plans to do if we ever come up with a new port standard that’s superior to usb c. Or if Apple unveils lightning 4.0 tomorrow.

Do companies have to wait for the EU to give the green light before they can switch ports, or is everything thinking that usb c will be the last port they will ever need?

 

[pshufd]

I am curious as to what the EU plans to do if we ever come up with a new port standard that’s superior to usb c. Or if Apple unveils lightning 4.0 tomorrow.

Do companies have to wait for the EU to give the green light before they can switch ports, or is everything thinking that usb c will be the last port they will ever need?

USB C seems to be pretty flexible with a fair amount of headroom. There's motivation to maintain plug and backwards compatibility for it, and people would get to keep their old cables.

 

[mtbdudex]

Welcome iPhone 16