All iPads Should the iPad become a Mac Replacement?

[Night Spring]

When you say Apps here, are you referring to Apple's own apps on the Mac? Which ones? I don't own a Mac so I don't have a reference point.

Apple just released Final Cut for iPad, and many are complaining how it's missing features compared to Mac version. My own experience with Pages is that the iPad version isn't quite as full-featured as the Mac version. It's gotten better over the years, but it's never gotten to full parity.

 

[sparksd]

And this where it comes to... those who asking for such a device? Would you be willing to pay the price for it? I'm guessing it would be north of $2000 at a starting price..

That's what Apple would look at - size of market. And it won't appeal to iPad users such as myself who are otherwise Windows-based.

 

[Ludatyk]

Then they should make iPadOS actually functional as a pro level operating system. MacOS-level finder and Apps.

You know, since the 12.9” iPad Pro has a way overkill M-series processor in it.

Pro level operating system? What does that even mean... is iPadOS limited in comparison to macOS? Absolutely! It's had more years of development. At this point, macOS is established... not much can be added in terms of functionality. Whereas iPadOS is much more youthful and it provides an alternative approach to computing.

 

[Night Spring]

That's what Apple would look at - size of market. And it won't appeal to iPad users such as myself who are otherwise Windows-based.

Ah, but a dual-booting iPad could be an entry device to draw people into the Apple ecosystem. If Apple made a dual-booting iPad but priced it low enough that people buy it even if they aren't planning on using it as a laptop, a certain number of those people will try the Mac OS because the function is there, and find they like it.

What I think Apple should eventually make is a dual-booting iPhone. Wait, you say, iPhone screen is way too small to run desktop OS. True, but what if you have a full desktop setup with monitor, keyboard and mouse, and you slip the iPhone into a dock and you have a full Mac? Wouldn't such a device be attractive to a large segment of users?

 

[Digitalguy]

Ah, but a dual-booting iPad could be an entry device to draw people into the Apple ecosystem. If Apple made a dual-booting iPad but priced it low enough that people buy it even if they aren't planning on using it as a laptop, a certain number of those people will try the Mac OS because the function is there, and find they like it.

What I think Apple should eventually make is a dual-booting iPhone. Wait, you say, iPhone screen is way too small to run desktop OS. True, but what if you have a full desktop setup with monitor, keyboard and mouse, and you slip the iPhone into a dock and you have a full Mac? Wouldn't such a device be attractive to a large segment of users?

Large segment of users? Doubt it. But it's extremely unlikely to happen anyway so it's more of a nerd's dream than anything realistically coming from Apple.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

That's what Apple would look at - size of market. And it won't appeal to iPad users such as myself who are otherwise Windows-based.

I would imagine that, since Apple sells twice as many iPads as Macs, most folks in the market for an iPad wouldn’t find “running macOS” as a value proposition at all.

 

[sparksd]

I would imagine that, since Apple sells twice as many iPads as Macs, most folks in the market for an iPad wouldn’t find “running macOS” as a value proposition at all.

It would seem to be a very niche market with low ROI. If they saw money in it, they would do it. I would expect Apple to use its in-house resources elsewhere; I think they have their eye on sexier technologies to pursue - AR & AI.

 

[prospervic]

Then they should make iPadOS actually functional as a pro level operating system. MacOS-level finder and Apps.

You know, since the 12.9” iPad Pro has a way overkill M-series processor in it.

People keep repeating this meme, but on what criteria are they basing this notion of “overkill?”

The fact that Final Cut Pro requires M1 suggests to me that the iPad Pro has the appropriate amount of “kill.”

 

[sparksd]

People keep repeating this meme, but on what criteria are they basing this notion of “overkill?”

The fact that Final Cut Pro requires M1 suggests to me that the iPad Pro has the appropriate amount of “kill.”

And I find that the M1 in my 12.9 has been helpful in LumaFusion and large RAW image processing. It all depends on what the device is used for - you could say that laptops with quality processors used just for word processing, spreadsheets, email, browsing, etc. are also overkill.

 

[eltoslightfoot]

And I find that the M1 in my 12.9 has been helpful in LumaFusion and large RAW image processing. It all depends on what the device is used for - you could say that laptops with quality processors used just for word processing, spreadsheets, email, browsing, etc. are also overkill.

Okay, but those are rare indeed. Most iPad apps are shells of the Mac apps. So either give me the Mac apps or the Mac OS on the iPad.

 

[eltoslightfoot]

People keep repeating this meme, but on what criteria are they basing this notion of “overkill?”

The fact that Final Cut Pro requires M1 suggests to me that the iPad Pro has the appropriate amount of “kill.”

If you say so. Apps that take advantage of the processor to that degree are exceedingly rare—like there are less than 10.

For the rest of the several hundred thousand iPad apps? Overkill.

 

[ericwn]

If you say so. Apps that take advantage of the processor to that degree are exceedingly rare—like there are less than 10.

For the rest of the several hundred thousand iPad apps? Overkill.

The same can be said for the Mac and plenty of its apps though. While not everyone needs great performance it often doesn’t hurt to have to make different use cases possible.

 

[sparksd]

If you say so. Apps that take advantage of the processor to that degree are exceedingly rare—like there are less than 10.

For the rest of the several hundred thousand iPad apps? Overkill.

I'll take overkill over underkill every time and never complain about it.

 

[blipmusic]

The iPad is the saddest device I know: it's both a turd and the computer I yearn the most for. Extremely well-engineered hardware with lots of potential, let down by a toy OS in terms of what it allows for. It's only as good as its OS, so after all these years the iPad is still a big iPhone to me. Be it iPad Pro or the mini.

Perhaps there's the occasional graphic designer or [INSERT OTHER PROFESSIONAL HERE] who found serious use for an iPad, but I can't see them objecting to being able to do more. Workflows that mean moving between systems all the time are not exactly great. It still is mostly a consumption device, solely because of the OS.

What Apple's (read: Steve Jobs') initial intention/vision was is irrelevant. The single reason we don't have a desktop quality OS for iPad is money: many (myself included) will buy one device instead of two. Any other argument is mute, period. If it made financial sense to put something macOS-like on the iPad, Apple would have. They could have pioneered a new generation of desktop class UI:s ("desktop" referring to OS capabilities, not necessarily traditional desktop-interfaces), but instead chose to shoehorn in desktop-looking features on top of the same closed-down OS. Does "macOS-like" mean too complex for the average user? Apple could have easily allowed the user to set a "simple mode", similar to the current iPadOS. Then again, I feel that's how the Apple Watch started: innovative, only to gradually return to a more tried-and-tested touch interface. Simpler to design for, but not necessarily better. Apple's touch interfaces are also gradually getting worse, and less intuitive.

iOS/iPadOS is app-centric, not data centric. That alone makes it ****, regardless of all its technical innovations. File handling and how we interface with data is crap (no, touch is not necessarily the best interface, but Apple have already acknowledged that with keyboard accessories... Thanks?), and many (most?) apps still have their own sandbox.

My computer's main reason for existing is the data I put on there. Whether creating something new, processing or consuming existing data etc. There's no reason to disallow a terminal, compiling code etc. We can uh "develop" in Apple's Swift sandbox for iOS only - does anyone actually build complex software with that? And while Swift itself seems like a nice language, it's too Apple centric (yes, it matters, a lot - I and many others need good cross-platform tooling) and loses in popularity to many others, for many different reasons. I need to install the toolchain/compiler/interpreter/libraries of my choice and develop with software of my choice. Coding is no longer a niche/"pro" activity.

Apple knows it can't drop the desktop class OS completely (which currently means maintaining the Mac), since for an iOS-only lineup how would we otherwise develop software for Apple devices? On Linux/Windows perhaps... And as food for thought, if Apple were to hypothetically disallow computers "below" MacbookPro to use macOS and make iPadOS the baseline, then what? It would make me move to Linux, thus I now own one Apple device less. Apple need to solve that, since for every Apple device a user drops, the Apple ecosystem and connected services will make less sense, meaning there's less friction in changing to non-Apple products for other product categories as well.

If I were to get a new iPad (my current one died), it will end up as a browsing and comic reading machine with the occasional movie watching during trips. Anything else is cumbersome at best.

 

[leifp]

I voted “no preference”, however that’s not the case. I would love for it to evolve along multiple lines. There is absolutely no reason why it needs to become a single thing.

Toting a 12.9” iPP around as a laptop replacement (and even as a desktop!) is physically possible now, however the OS drops the ball: my Studio display will not go to sleep when I turn the iPad off (not shut it down), multitasking is a mess, and Safari et al (all competitors based on Safari, so hardly surprising) leaves a bit to be desired particularly for using screen real estate in excess of the iPad’s. It has certain benefits that just haven’t been translated operationally: the Pencil. But I digress…

I also dream of an original iPad setup (9.7”) like the iPad 2 (or the original Air, Air 2 etc) but with more modern reduced bezels. It really was a magnificent size and comfortable for sofa use… no bells and whistles but the screen should be the best available… a role for the iPad Air, which has lost its raison d’être, perhaps?

 

[pdoherty]

Yeah, fun to think about what it be and what it would mean, but Apple’s not reading MacRumors for product ideas

I wouldn't be so sure about that. Heard of customer focus groups? A company that has a forum of thousands of their customers generating ideas... they'd be morons to completely ignore it.

 

[pdoherty]

Ah, but a dual-booting iPad could be an entry device to draw people into the Apple ecosystem. If Apple made a dual-booting iPad but priced it low enough that people buy it even if they aren't planning on using it as a laptop, a certain number of those people will try the Mac OS because the function is there, and find they like it.

What I think Apple should eventually make is a dual-booting iPhone. Wait, you say, iPhone screen is way too small to run desktop OS. True, but what if you have a full desktop setup with monitor, keyboard and mouse, and you slip the iPhone into a dock and you have a full Mac? Wouldn't such a device be attractive to a large segment of users?

Yep this is Android Dex I think it's called - been a thing for a number of years.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

I wouldn't be so sure about that. Heard of customer focus groups? A company that has a forum of thousands of their customers generating ideas... they'd be morons to completely ignore it.

MacRumors is not a customer focus group, though, as focus groups have a lot more structure and formality to ensure that they’re obtaining the best information they can get related to the company in question. A non-Apple owned moderated user forum is MOST beneficial primarily to the owners of that user forum. There’s no impetus to ensure that only viable ideas worthy of further consideration are presented, just that enough ideas are presented that folks like myself will come back to view the ads that surround them.

 

[prospervic]

The iPad is the saddest device I know: it's both a turd and the computer I yearn the most for. Extremely well-engineered hardware with lots of potential, let down by a toy OS in terms of what it allows for. It's only as good as its OS, so after all these years the iPad is still a big iPhone to me. Be it iPad Pro or the mini.

Perhaps there's the occasional graphic designer or [INSERT OTHER PROFESSIONAL HERE] who found serious use for an iPad, but I can't see them objecting to being able to do more. Workflows that mean moving between systems all the time are not exactly great. It still is mostly a consumption device, solely because of the OS.

What Apple's (read: Steve Jobs') initial intention/vision was is irrelevant. The single reason we don't have a desktop quality OS for iPad is money: many (myself included) will buy one device instead of two. Any other argument is mute, period. If it made financial sense to put something macOS-like on the iPad, Apple would have. They could have pioneered a new generation of desktop class UI:s ("desktop" referring to OS capabilities, not necessarily traditional desktop-interfaces), but instead chose to shoehorn in desktop-looking features on top of the same closed-down OS. Does "macOS-like" mean too complex for the average user? Apple could have easily allowed the user to set a "simple mode", similar to the current iPadOS. Then again, I feel that's how the Apple Watch started: innovative, only to gradually return to a more tried-and-tested touch interface. Simpler to design for, but not necessarily better. Apple's touch interfaces are also gradually getting worse, and less intuitive.

iOS/iPadOS is app-centric, not data centric. That alone makes it ****, regardless of all its technical innovations. File handling and how we interface with data is crap (no, touch is not necessarily the best interface, but Apple have already acknowledged that with keyboard accessories... Thanks?), and many (most?) apps still have their own sandbox.

My computer's main reason for existing is the data I put on there. Whether creating something new, processing or consuming existing data etc. There's no reason to disallow a terminal, compiling code etc. We can uh "develop" in Apple's Swift sandbox for iOS only - does anyone actually build complex software with that? And while Swift itself seems like a nice language, it's too Apple centric (yes, it matters, a lot - I and many others need good cross-platform tooling) and loses in popularity to many others, for many different reasons. I need to install the toolchain/compiler/interpreter/libraries of my choice and develop with software of my choice. Coding is no longer a niche/"pro" activity.

Apple knows it can't drop the desktop class OS completely (which currently means maintaining the Mac), since for an iOS-only lineup how would we otherwise develop software for Apple devices? On Linux/Windows perhaps... And as food for thought, if Apple were to hypothetically disallow computers "below" MacbookPro to use macOS and make iPadOS the baseline, then what? It would make me move to Linux, thus I now own one Apple device less. Apple need to solve that, since for every Apple device a user drops, the Apple ecosystem and connected services will make less sense, meaning there's less friction in changing to non-Apple products for other product categories as well.

If I were to get a new iPad (my current one died), it will end up as a browsing and comic reading machine with the occasional movie watching during trips. Anything else is cumbersome at best.

Seeing someone refer to the iPad as a “turd” in the face of it’s massive success (you see them in use everywhere — consumers, professionals, retail store kiosks) makes me realize there’s just no point in continuing this discussion/argument.
Those who insist the iPad needs macOS will continue to do so despite the fact that millions make very good use of and derive much enjoyment from it even as it “just” runs iPadOS.

And that’s just the way it is.
After all, Geeks gonna geek.

 

[eltoslightfoot]

Seeing someone refer to the iPad as a “turd” in the face of it’s massive success (you see them in use everywhere — consumers, professionals, retail store kiosks) makes me realize there’s just no point in continuing this discussion/argument.
Those who insist the iPad needs macOS will continue to do so despite the fact that millions make very good use of and derive much enjoyment from it even as it “just” runs iPadOS.

And that’s just the way it is.
After all, Geeks gonna geek.

Good thing it isn't up to you. And there is a lot of truth there. Just because millions of people use it doesn't mean it couldn't be better. People are making good points in this thread--regardless of what you think.

We'll see what changes are in store next week. Speaking for myself, if I don't like what I see, I may just go in another direction.

 

[prospervic]

Good thing it isn't up to you. And there is a lot of truth there. Just because millions of people use it doesn't mean it couldn't be better. People are making good points in this thread--regardless of what you think.

We'll see what changes are in store next week. Speaking for myself, if I don't like what I see, I may just go in another direction.

Let me clarify. What I mean is there’s no point in trying to convince anyone who’s dug-in on that position. Just like in politics, some people are hard-grounded in their views that the “discussion“ really becomes talking at rather than with the other person.

And saying the iPad “could be better“ is very different and a long way from calling it “turd“.

 

[eltoslightfoot]

Let me clarify. What I mean is there’s no point in trying to convince anyone who’s dug-in on that position. Just like in politics, some people are hard-grounded in their views that the “discussion“ really becomes talking at rather than with the other person.

And saying the iPad “could be better“ is very different and a long way from calling it “turd“.

I just find it interesting that you fixated on that one term and missed the rest of the rather long post that made a lot of good points.

 

[sparksd]

Let me clarify. What I mean is there’s no point in trying to convince anyone who’s dug-in on that position. Just like in politics, some people are hard-grounded in their views that the “discussion“ really becomes talking at rather than with the other person.

And saying the iPad “could be better“ is very different and a long way from calling it “turd“.

Yeah, I think that all of the points that can be made on either side have been made - many times over. All that is left seems to be just repetition of those points but with greater vehemence and aggressiveness.

 

[eltoslightfoot]

Yeah, I think that all of the points that can be made on either side have been made - many times over. All that is left seems to be just repetition of those points but with greater vehemence and aggressiveness.

I guess what I find hard to understand is what the big deal is. If we “dual-booters” got what we wanted it would affect everyone who wants the iPad the way it is now not at all. It would literally make an absolute zero bit of difference to your experience with your iPad. So what is the “vehemence and aggressiveness” even needed for to those of us who want more out of our rather pricy M-line iPad Pros?

 

[sparksd]

I guess what I find hard to understand is what the big deal is. If we “dual-booters” got what we wanted it would affect everyone who wants the iPad the way it is now not at all. It would literally make an absolute zero bit of difference to your experience with your iPad. So what is the “vehemence and aggressiveness” even needed for to those of us who want more out of our rather pricy M-line iPad Pros?

I'm good with it as long as "absolute zero bit of difference" means zero price and system storage impact.