Silicon Mac users: What do you want from a new device in order to upgrade?

[pshufd]

The cool and quiet performance of an M1 iMac can not be experienced in a mega electronics store either. It's something you only learn from using it in the privacy of your own room during a cold winter night. I knew all about the significance of the ARM transition and was still impressed by how it felt to use it. Benchmarks can't describe feelings, but reviews and unboxings can. Just go to Youtube, don't ask an BestBuy employee. Craigslist is best to see and test an item before paying and you also get the best prices and most pleasant purchase experience from your neighbours. My last visit led me into the home of a very friendly actor. eBay auctions are hit and miss, like with stocks you shouldn't risk more money than you can afford to lose. But the prices produced by auctions are the fairest, you get exactly how much in demand a product still is despite Apple's fantasy prices.

I actually prefer my Intel MacBook Pro on a cold, winter night. It keeps my legs warm.

 

[Gudi]

I actually prefer my Intel MacBook Pro on a cold, winter night. It keeps my legs warm.

Proper heat insulation and double-glazed windows change the equation. Intel Macs are still hot and loud in the summer when you don't want leg warmers.

 

[pshufd]

Proper heat insulation and double-glazed windows change the equation. Intel Macs are still hot and loud in the summer when you don't want leg warmers.

Heat insulation and double-glazed windows aren't a factor if you keep your home at a particular temperature.

I have a 2015 MacBook Pro 15 and a 2021 M1 Pro MacBook Pro 16 so I'm covered both ways.

 

[Ploki]

M1 13" 16/512.
upgrade to used 16" M1 Pro 32/1TB

at this point i wouldn't want a significantly better CPU (not what M2 Pro/max has to offer) and thunderbolt 5. Until that happens i'm staying on M1 Pro

 

[bobcomer]

Unless eBay and Craigslist are significantly more reliable in Germany, I wouldn't rely on either option to procure components or PC accessories. Too many examples of people being scammed on both sites to really trust those as primary sources to purchase from. Also, a lot of customers prefer to see products in-person, because the experience of using a MacBook, iPad, etc. is not something that can be reproduced via online research.

In the US, there are a lot of options to see products in person, regardless of manufacturer. Granted, only a few really could be considered major players (Best Buy, Apple Stores, MicroCenter [where present]), but you also have Target, WalMart, Sam's Club, Costco, Staples, Office Max/Depot who also sell computers and computer accessories and/or components, just to name a few. That's before you even get into the online space, where you have Newegg, Amazon, and manufacturer websites galore.

Ebay is great for replacement or vintage level components where you know exactly what you need. I've gotten so much older stuff from them, not useful to someone wanting new, but if you have an old test that needs an HP960C Inkjet printer for output, ebay's the place to get it!

 

[dmccloud]

The cool and quiet performance of an M1 iMac can not be experienced in a mega electronics store either. It's something you only learn from using it in the privacy of your own room during a cold winter night. I knew all about the significance of the ARM transition and was still impressed by how it felt to use it. Benchmarks can't describe feelings, but reviews and unboxings can. Just go to Youtube, don't ask an BestBuy employee. Craigslist is best to see and test an item before paying and you also get the best prices and most pleasant purchase experience from your neighbours. My last visit led me into the home of a very friendly actor. eBay auctions are hit and miss, like with stocks you shouldn't risk more money than you can afford to lose. But the prices produced by auctions are the fairest, you get exactly how much in demand a product still is despite Apple's fantasy prices.

Craigslist is either completely different in Germany, or you actually haven't used it. But you can easily walk into a Best Buy or Apple Store and touch the MacBook Pros and test the keyboards, look at the displays, play a game, notice how cool they are to the touch despite having been on for at least several hours. None of those experiences can be surpassed or even duplicated via YouTube. Reviews and unboxings can NOT tell another person what their feelings will or should be, only those of the reviewer or unboxer.

 

[dmccloud]

Ebay is great for replacement or vintage level components where you know exactly what you need. I've gotten so much older stuff from them, not useful to someone wanting new, but if you have an old test that needs an HP960C Inkjet printer for output, ebay's the place to get it!

I'll use eBay for vintage machines, but not newer items.

 

[minik]

I switch between Intel iMac (27-inch, 2020), MacBook Pro (14-inch M1 Pro), and MacBook Air (2018) here. If Apple rolls out an iMac with a bigger screen with M3 Pro chip, I may upgrade. Second, if Apple decided to re-introduce a 11 or 12-inch notebook, it will be tempted to jump onboard too as I love smaller screen notebooks.

 

[Gudi]

Craigslist is either completely different in Germany, or you actually haven't used it.

I haven't. I used Kleinanzeigen, but you wouldn't know what I'm talking about. The point is there is no middle man, you directly negotiate terms with someone living nearby.

But you can easily walk into a Best Buy or Apple Store and touch the MacBook Pros and test the keyboards, look at the displays, play a game, notice how cool they are to the touch despite having been on for at least several hours.

The size of the room and the lighting completely leads astray on the actual size of a 24" display. And then you stand in front of it instead of sitting. It's just not the same and not very helpful. And nobody should buy anything at retail store prices.

None of those experiences can be surpassed or even duplicated via YouTube. Reviews and unboxings can NOT tell another person what their feelings will or should be, only those of the reviewer or unboxer.

Humans aren't all special individual snowflakes. One reviewer describing his own personal experiences using the machine is often very helpful. There's actually a whole industry of people offering their insights. Most of them Americans. So I don't think that you actually inform yourself by going to a BestBuy.

 

[pshufd]

I haven't. I used Kleinanzeigen, but you wouldn't know what I'm talking about. The point is there is no middle man, you directly negotiate terms with someone living nearby.

That's what Craigslist is. I even give buyers 7 days to change their mind. Sales are at my house or theirs.

 

[kasakka]

For me there are three areas where my Macbook Pro 16" M2 Max sucks.

1. External display support and scaling. It's still clearly an issue when my 4K 144 Hz display cannot do 2560x1440 scaling + HDR + 120-144 Hz at the same time. MacOS scaling needs a total overhaul because it's pure insanity right now, with issues that even an integrated Intel GPU on my desktop PC does not have.
2. The built-in display's pixel response times are still quite awful, resulting in noticeable blurring in motion.
3. I'd kill for at least one USB-A port. There's enough USB-A devices out there that it's annoying to always have a hub you have to dig out.

EDIT: Forgot an important one: the SSD should be upgradeable. It's just stupid that it isn't. I can forgive the RAM due to its architecture but no excuse for the SSD.

 

[pshufd]

For me there are three areas where my Macbook Pro 16" M2 Max sucks.

1. External display support and scaling. It's still clearly an issue when my 4K 144 Hz display cannot do 2560x1440 scaling + HDR + 120-144 Hz at the same time. MacOS scaling needs a total overhaul because it's pure insanity right now, with issues that even an integrated Intel GPU on my desktop PC does not have.
2. The built-in display's pixel response times are still quite awful, resulting in noticeable blurring in motion.
3. I'd kill for at least one USB-A port. There's enough USB-A devices out there that it's annoying to always have a hub you have to dig out.

I'm happy with scaling on my Studio - I tried with my MacBook Pro but gave up due to early problems with Monterey in that area. I'm fine with 60 hertz so speed isn't an issue.

About the most consistent wish I've seen in this thread is the USB-A port. It seems like there's room to put one in, at least on the 16.

 

[applepotato666]

I have the 2020 Pro with the M1 chip. Way too early for an upgrade, but a couple of things that could get me to:

1. What's currently the 'actual Pro' MacBook Pro (the M2 Pro MacBook Pro) replaces the non-Pro MacBook Pro at the $1299 price. I'm unsure what's going on with the Mac line-up and what the future holds for it but I hope it'll make at least the tiny bit of sense it's currently lacking when I'm due for an upgrade.
2. Which means 16GB will be the absolute minimum amount of RAM you can get on a MacBook when I'm upgrading. Not spending above $1299 (not even spending that with the Euro conversion price Apple's doing currently) and not getting 8GB for my next computer because it's hammering the SSD like crazy and I'm still not convinced we won't see the consequences of that in a year or two. Either that or upgrade prices will make more sense. If this one dies before that day comes I'll get a used one of the same model for cheap.
3. I find a good deal on a good condition used more recent Mac down the road and an upgrade is due. All my previous Macs were used, M1 was just a huge jump and I was due for an upgrade right when they came out (had a used 2013 Air before that)
4. Right to repair (where it is enough said). If future models have software locks on replaceable components it's not gonna work out with me and Apple period especially if it's for components prone to or destined to fail like the battery. Even the nagging iPhone persistent notification about the battery (which was genuine just not 'paired') was pushing the boundaries for me. I bought both the phone and the component, and can choose what to do with them because they are mine - if they don't believe in that, I will not support that.

I spend 8 hours/day on my computer and it has to be a Mac for now (design work on Mac-exclusive software though they're working on Linux/Windows versions) but Apple prices are a rip-off outside the US apart from the M1 MacBook Air which with retailer discounts going on currently is the best deal in computing. Once you start going up the ladder the least bit it stops making sense.

 

[dmccloud]

I haven't. I used Kleinanzeigen, but you wouldn't know what I'm talking about. The point is there is no middle man, you directly negotiate terms with someone living nearby.

The size of the room and the lighting completely leads astray on the actual size of a 24" display. And then you stand in front of it instead of sitting. It's just not the same and not very helpful. And nobody should buy anything at retail store prices.

Humans aren't all special individual snowflakes. One reviewer describing his own personal experiences using the machine is often very helpful. There's actually a whole industry of people offering their insights. Most of them Americans. So I don't think that you actually inform yourself by going to a BestBuy.

1. Craigslist is basically the same thing as Kleinanzeigen, so yes I do know what you're talking about. I also know that there are a LOT of cases of fraud via Craigslist transactions, so there is a degree of balancing convenience with safety there. At least eBay has buyer protection, which Craigslist does not.

2. Prices are the same at Best Buy as they are on the Apple Website or in an Apple Store, therefore your "retail store prices" line is a moot point. I can't speak for any country in Europe (especially those in the EU), but in the US and Canada, Apple products are sold at the prices set by Apple, even at Best Buy, Target, etc. The only exception to that is wholesale clubs such as Costco and Sam's Club. The same thing applies to gaming consoles such as the PS5, XBox Series S/X. and Nintendo Switch.

3. Reading a review online or watching a YouTube video does not and can not replicate an individual's experience. For example, what MaxTech looks for in a laptop is not necessarily what the reviewers at Macworld, Mac Life, MacRumors, etc. are looking for. They have their own wants and desires, and their reviews are subject to that perspective. People have subjective tastes and likes, so what one reviewer finds good or bad is not universal by any means. There are people who love the butterfly keyboards that caused so many issues in that 2015-2020 run despite the well-known and publicized issues with that design. You also seem to zero in on Best Buy specifically, which is strange given that I've continually also mentioned Apple Stores as places to get that hands-on experience.

Going into a store that sells Apple products, whether Best Buy, an Apple Store, a cellular provider, or an Authorized Apple Reseller gives you the opportunity to pick up that Apple device and see it for yourself, to see if the device is the right size for your needs, or even the right size to fit into a pocket. There are far too many individual variables in play to look at ANY review of a product (regardless of manufacturer) as the ultimate arbiter of whether it is the right product for an individual.

 

[Gudi]

I also know that there are a LOT of cases of fraud via Craigslist transactions, so there is a degree of balancing convenience with safety there. At least eBay has buyer protection, which Craigslist does not.

But Kleinanziegen scammers are easy to spot, they want to meet in a parking lot or at the train station, whereas legitimate sellers invite you into their home and let you test the device. And for more expensive items, they will even sign a sales treaty under their name.

Prices are the same at Best Buy as they are on the Apple Website or in an Apple Store, therefore your "retail store prices" line is a moot point. I can't speak for any country in Europe (especially those in the EU), but in the US and Canada, Apple products are sold at the prices set by Apple, even at Best Buy, Target, etc.

There is never a shortage of places where you can pay too much. The Apple Online Store at least has a two week test and return policy, no questions asked. So for the same price I would always order from Apple directly. By German law when you buy something at a retail store as soon as you cut open the box it's yours. The store doesn't need to take it back, because you had the opportunity to examine it before you bought it.

For example, what MaxTech looks for in a laptop is not necessarily what the reviewers at Macworld, Mac Life, MacRumors, etc. are looking for. They have their own wants and desires, and their reviews are subject to that perspective. People have subjective tastes and likes, so what one reviewer finds good or bad is not universal by any means.

That's why you watch multiple reviews and inform yourself from many trustworthy sources. It's just like reading more than one newspaper or watching more than one tv news channel.

There are people who love the butterfly keyboards that caused so many issues in that 2015-2020 run despite the well-known and publicised issues with that design.

And the butterfly keyboard might even work well, when you take precautions to prevent dirt under the keys. You can even pop off the key caps and clean the mechanism yourself. This doesn't need to be a huge issue. If you compare Apple keyboards over many generations, it's a path of amazing progress with only occasional regressions. I just upgraded my whole lineup of keyboards and mice. It was basically for free with selling the old ones and buying cheap from Kleinanzeigen and it's so much better with build in batteries and more stable keys. Reviewers also frequently trash talk the Magic Mouse 2 for its Lightning port on the bottom; and I found it to be the hardest to find at a good price.

You also seem to zero in on Best Buy specifically, which is strange given that I've continually also mentioned Apple Stores as places to get that hands-on experience.

Oh, I would go to the nearest MediaMarkt/Saturn/BestBuy for a hands-on experience, but I would never buy there. A visit to a retailer is just a starting point for an online research.

Going into a store that sells Apple products, whether Best Buy, an Apple Store, a cellular provider, or an Authorized Apple Reseller gives you the opportunity to pick up that Apple device and see it for yourself, to see if the device is the right size for your needs, or even the right size to fit into a pocket.

Aren't the iPhones chained to the table? Putting them into my pocket is a big no-go! The hands-on experience is no excuse for retail store prices. Online is always better and second-hand is king.

There are far too many individual variables in play to look at ANY review of a product (regardless of manufacturer) as the ultimate arbiter of whether it is the right product for an individual.

If you bought at a good price, you are always able to sell at the same price. There is way less risk, if you take the average price for which a similar item goes on eBay as your guide on how much to pay.

I found a brand-new Magic Keyboard with TouchID on Kleinanzeigen (Craigslist) for 55 Euros. A typical eBay auction for this keyboard would end at about ~90 Euros. The MediaMarkt (BestBuy) price is 119.99 € down from 159 € at Apple. I don't even need this keyboard right now, but it will come in handy soon.

 

[pshufd]

But Kleinanziegen scammers are easy to spot, they want to meet in a parking lot or at the train station, whereas legitimate sellers invite you into their home and let you test the device. And for more expensive items, they will even sign a sales treaty under their name.

There is never a shortage of places where you can pay too much. The Apple Online Store at least has a two week test and return policy, no questions asked. So for the same price I would always order from Apple directly. By German law when you buy something at a retail store as soon as you cut open the box it's yours. The store doesn't need to take it back, because you had the opportunity to examine it before you bought it.

That's why you watch multiple reviews and inform yourself from many trustworthy sources. It's just like reading more than one newspaper or watching more than one tv news channel.

And the butterfly keyboard might even work well, when you take precautions to prevent dirt under the keys. You can even pop off the key caps and clean the mechanism yourself. This doesn't need to be a huge issue. If you compare Apple keyboards over many generations, it's a path of amazing progress with only occasional regressions. I just upgraded my whole lineup of keyboards and mice. It was basically for free with selling the old ones and buying cheap from Kleinanzeigen and it's so much better with build in batteries and more stable keys. Reviewers also frequently trash talk the Magic Mouse 2 for its Lightning port on the bottom; and I found it to be the hardest to find at a good price.

Oh, I would go to the nearest MediaMarkt/Saturn/BestBuy for a hands-on experience, but I would never buy there. A visit to a retailer is just a starting point for an online research.

Aren't the iPhones chained to the table? Putting them into my pocket is a big no-go! The hands-on experience is no excuse for retail store prices. Online is always better and second-hand is king.

If you bought at a good price, you are always able to sell at the same price. There is way less risk, if you take the average price for which a similar item goes on eBay as your guide on how much to pay.

I found a brand-new Magic Keyboard with TouchID on Kleinanzeigen (Craigslist) for 55 Euros. A typical eBay auction for this keyboard would end at about ~90 Euros. The MediaMarkt (BestBuy) price is 119.99 € down from 159 € at Apple. I don't even need this keyboard right now, but it will come in handy soon.

So much here that I agree with.

One minor exception for me was in buying the 2021 MacBook Pro 16 on launch day. The reason for this is that I bought a used 2015 MacBook Pro 15 in 2018 because I needed a system and I didn't want the 2016, 2017 and 2018 models and I had no idea as to when Apple would resolve the MacBook Pro issues. The leaks and rumors were largely right so I just ordered it and have been very happy with it. Wait times for the system did get stretched out quite a bit. That 2015 MacBook Pro had 2 corner dents (drops), an edge gouge, and scratches all over the bottom. But it was functionally perfect and it's my backup laptop today.

On buying used gear: I bought a 2010 iMac 27 with i7 a couple of years ago for $100. The seller couldn't get it to boot because the HDD had been wiped. They were going to bring it to the town dump if I didn't buy it. I probably could have offered $50 and taken it but I had agreed on $100 if I could get it to work. I had brought an external, bootable SSD, and keyboard and mouse (my usual procedure when looking at used systems) and it booted right up. Asking prices on this today are $100 - $200. I use it as a machine to watch videos in front of my spin bike because it has the the Infared remote control, a feature that I miss on newer Macs.

I've never bought anything on Ebay as I've read about a lot of people getting scammed on it and you have to deal with shipping back and forth.

One other nice thing about Craigslist is that you get to meet other Mac people.

 

[Gudi]

One minor exception for me was in buying the 2021 MacBook Pro 16 on launch day. ... The leaks and rumors were largely right so I just ordered it and have been very happy with it.

I've yet to hear one bad word about Apple Silicon Macs, customers are genuinely happy with them. But their value drops so much during the first year of ownership.

On buying used gear: I bought a 2010 iMac 27 with i7 a couple of years ago for $100. The seller couldn't get it to boot because the HDD had been wiped. They were going to bring it to the town dump if I didn't buy it.

And you did something for the environment. I see only winners in buying used Macs.

I've never bought anything on Ebay as I've read about a lot of people getting scammed on it and you have to deal with shipping back and forth.

And you do end up buying some crap, which you don't need. But so do people who go to stores. Because of scammers, I don't buy anything expensive on eBay. I bought a "not working" Magic Trackpad 2 with a defective Taptic engine for 12,50 € and a few years later Force Touch started working again on its own. When you buy something as "used" on eBay, it can be anything between brand-new and crumbling.

One other nice thing about Craigslist is that you get to meet other Mac people.

And you get a glimpse into their lives. People are fascinating.😊

 

[etn]

Voted "Something else": Wireless connectivity!!! All iPads have this, why not the mac?

 

[pshufd]

Voted "Something else": Wireless connectivity!!! All iPads have this, why not the mac?

My iPad mini 5 does not have cellular connectivity. It's a rather expensive option.

 

[etn]

My iPad mini 5 does not have cellular connectivity. It's a rather expensive option.

Well, I obviously meant it is offered as an option with every iPad. Then it's up to you to choose to buy it or not - depending on your needs.
If they ever bring this to the mac, I'd expect it will be optional too. And probably expensive

 

[pshufd]

Well, I obviously meant it is offered as an option with every iPad. Then it's up to you to choose to buy it or not - depending on your needs.
If they ever bring this to the mac, I'd expect it will be optional too. And probably expensive

With far fewer sales than with mobile devices.

 

[dmccloud]

Voted "Something else": Wireless connectivity!!! All iPads have this, why not the mac?

Even on the Windows side, laptops with cellular capabilities are few and far between. There is a bigger use case for tablets with cellular connectivity (bth iPad OS and Android) than exists for laptops.

 

[bobcomer]

Even on the Windows side, laptops with cellular capabilities are few and far between. There is a bigger use case for tablets with cellular connectivity (bth iPad OS and Android) than exists for laptops.

They're far more common than cellular on a Mac. A lot of the Lenovo business can be configured that way.

 

[pshufd]

They're far more common than cellular on a Mac. A lot of the Lenovo business can be configured that way.

This seems like a feature for business users that can expense the charges for an additional device. Tethering is more cost-efficient if you're paying for it yourself. I have the Xfinity WiFi hotspot network available and it's generally easy to find hotspots if you are in an urban or suburban area.

I'm sure that Apple has already done the market analysis on this and they'd rather sell you an iPhone or iPad to tether off of rather than put in another option on their Macs. Apple just doesn't like to offer the level of options that you see on PCs.

 

[bobcomer]

This seems like a feature for business users that can expense the charges for an additional device. Tethering is more cost-efficient if you're paying for it yourself. I have the Xfinity WiFi hotspot network available and it's generally easy to find hotspots if you are in an urban or suburban area.

I use tethering myself, though android phones are a bit better at it than iPhones.

If one needs the best connection possible to work, going with internal cellular makes a lot of sense, it's more reliable and it's faster. (no repeater in the middle using a radio band that's more congested than cellular). I can certainly understand why people want it.