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Windreader

macrumors newbie
Aug 3, 2019
17
25
Iowa
Hi Project,

I'll send you a PM with the link when it's finished.

Best regards,
voidRunner
Hey Void, would there be any chance that you could shoot me a link as well? While I may not get around to it immediately, when I get the chance, I'd totally love to mess around with this on some of my Macs I have lying around. :)
-Jaxon
 

Project Alice

macrumors 68020
Jul 13, 2008
2,078
2,158
Post Falls, ID
Looks like a different hang on my eMac. I’m not sure what I’m doing differently. When running the script it gives no such file or directory for the last two lines, removing Extensions.mkext and wwanConfig.bundle
But since it was going to remove those files anyway I didn’t see this as a problem.
 

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Project Alice

macrumors 68020
Jul 13, 2008
2,078
2,158
Post Falls, ID
I got it to boot. I'm going to blame the problem on "modern" macOS (or at least the latest version of CCC).
I just redid everything entirely using Leopard on my PowerBook. Booted right up to the installer. It's installing as I type this.

Update:
Not sure why I'm having such bad luck with this. Once I log in, it gets stuck at a blue screen with a cursor. And the installer is also back to hanging, which I haven't even touched that so I don't know why it stopped working. Oh well. I'll test it more on some other machines tomorrow. I'm getting a bit tired tonight.
 
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Larsvonhier

macrumors 68000
Original poster
Aug 21, 2016
1,611
2,983
Germany, Black Forest
Hi Lars,

Just found something that is required for PBs to have the temp/fan sensors working
properly.
The IOI2CADT746x.kext is not available in 10.6 and must be copied from Leopard.
Now I can seel all the info in iStat and use G4FanControl to set the temps for fan ramp up.

Best regards,
voidRunner
Great find. Now there is a chance that my Pismo does not cook to a halt after 20min. when on 10.6!
@0403979 and others perhaps working on installer (scripts): You might include this kext...
 

jimjamyaha

macrumors member
Sep 2, 2003
46
59
Great find. Now there is a chance that my Pismo does not cook to a halt after 20min. when on 10.6!
@0403979 and others perhaps working on installer (scripts): You might include this kext...
I've compiled in the past a kext for 10.5 which had lowered threshold temperatures for the Pismo fans, as 10.5 felt like it might get too hot on the Pismo G4 too. These can also be set one-off (erased after a restart) in open firmware too.

Will dig them and the OpenFirmware patches in a bit.
 

Larsvonhier

macrumors 68000
Original poster
Aug 21, 2016
1,611
2,983
Germany, Black Forest
I spoke too soon: The IOI2CADT746x.kext is not there, but the AppleADT746x.kext has exactly that functionality and is loaded on my PB G4 15" 1Ghz. iStat sees four temps and both fan speeds with it.
On the Pismo, neither of those kexts gets loaded.

@jimjamyaha : Could you provide the OF command(s) needed for a one-shot?

Edit: G4fancontrol works as widget but main GUI app does not start. Perhaps a good excercise in re-compiling it for 10.6 from github sources? ;-)
 
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Larsvonhier

macrumors 68000
Original poster
Aug 21, 2016
1,611
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Germany, Black Forest
I got it to boot. I'm going to blame the problem on "modern" macOS (or at least the latest version of CCC).
I just redid everything entirely using Leopard on my PowerBook. Booted right up to the installer. It's installing as I type this.

Update:
Not sure why I'm having such bad luck with this. Once I log in, it gets stuck at a blue screen with a cursor. And the installer is also back to hanging, which I haven't even touched that so I don't know why it stopped working. Oh well. I'll test it more on some other machines tomorrow. I'm getting a bit tired tonight.
The "stuck at blue screen with mouse" might be temporarily worked around by removing the GPU related kext(s) and run in completely un-accelerated mode. I had such behaviour on my Pismo and boot-time logging (verbose mode) gave errors like "NRDV too old" and nonetheless loading the Nvidia kexts.

CCC btw. has the annoying habit (in later and recent versions that is) to "update boot support" with its own ingredients for various OS X and macOS releases it runs on. This leads to i.e. the situation that I always have to re-copy prelinkedkernel and boot.efi on our office MP1,1 running as a server with El Capitan (very unsupported ;-). Might be related to what you see on your machine after cloning with CCC.
Another workaround: CCC-clone twice and stop right before progress bar reaches 100% and thus skipping the under-the-hood CCC actions at that point. Original contents of source volume stay unmodified then.
 
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jimjamyaha

macrumors member
Sep 2, 2003
46
59
This is supercool!!! From my understanding the big challenge is that PPC code was stripped out of the GUI and kernel in final 10.6 builds. This might require compiling the kernel for the later builds and forward porting the other aspects.

Unlike with Ryan Remple's Xpostfacto and then the work I did to get 10.5 running on G4 upgraded PowerMac 8500s which was essentially reimplementing kexts in various versions, and using various OpenFirmware patches, this looks a lot more challenging, in the final builds, as some basic dependencies and links might have been stripped, far more than in the jump.from 10.4>10.5.

That said, amazing that 10A96 build has surfaced and is able to work with the former approach so far.

In 2009 I had thought about trying to continue the 10.5 approach but have up as couldn't find any PPC early builds of 10.6. (it certainly took a long while to find all the 10.5 builds and then work out which kexts from which version worked on the Retail GM version, and which support was and was not still lurking under the surface for various models).

So fingers crossed for the later builds!

And kudos that this is taking place and is a collaborative effort - definitely the best way to go! (will help where possible... unlike 2008 I now have 3 kids so spare time is a premium!)
 
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0403979

Cancelled
Jun 11, 2018
1,402
1,735
Great find. Now there is a chance that my Pismo does not cook to a halt after 20min. when on 10.6!
@0403979 and others perhaps working on installer (scripts): You might include this kext...
I couldn’t seem to boot the installer on my 800Mhz iMac G4 but I can make a basic script for patching the installer disk and system.
 
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vddrnnr

macrumors 6502a
Jan 23, 2017
506
763
Hi Lars,

On my DLSD IOI2CADT46x is loaded in Leopard and in SL
too after copying it to /S/L/E so maybe different PDs need different kexts.
Regarding G4FanControl the problem is that is built with java and Java
is not working is x86.
I'm trying to get the JavaVM.framework from Leopard but until now it's not working
@JoyBed has extensive knowledge regarding Java on PPC maybe he can help us get it done.

Best regards,
voidRunner
 
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weckart

macrumors 603
Nov 7, 2004
5,957
3,658
At the moment, am configuring the Server on my 1GHz 17" PBG4. I just created a USB installer from 10A96 and installed from the hacked OSInstall.mpkg. I put in all the kexts according to the post-install script manually and set permissions from Terminal. I kept getting script faults even after editing the file locations. I installed from Leopard to another volume and as it was showing 2-3 hours to install, I dimmed the screen to black to keep the heat down and left it. When I came back, the PB was silent except for a very light fan running but I couldn't get the screen back up so had to cold restart. It seemed to install ok but I could only get it to reboot back into SL Server from OS9 as OS9 was already on the volume I had installed to. Use a blank volume, folks if you want to use the boot selector screen. :rolleyes:

Forgot how loooooong it took SL Server to configure during setup as it has been a while. Warning to anyone who hasn't set up a server before, you will need an internet connection via Ethernet before starting as Server cannot use your built-in WiFi to set itself up even if it works.
 

vddrnnr

macrumors 6502a
Jan 23, 2017
506
763
Hi weckart,

I first installed on a QUAD G5 so it was faster ;-).
I then copied it with CCC to a partition on the PBG4 HD.
I had no internet active and had no problems installing.

Best regards,
voidRunner
 
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I installed using @vddrnnr’s step-by-step in post #26. This went onto an A1138 DLSD PowerBook G4 1.67 with 1GB RAM.

The install and set-up took some reboots, but I finally reached a Finder window.


Some notes:

System Profiler shows no support for Quartz Extreme for the onboard Mobility Radeon 9700 video card. This could be a matter of finding a kext for that series, since I’m not unsure whether the Mobility 9700 was carried over to Intel (and if not, might not have the proper kext or any kext for it; I’ll look into it shortly and update this post).

It is running on half the laptop’s OEM RAM capability (1GB instead of 2, since I only have one DIMM in). I haven’t yet run anything other than Server Admin.

Following installation (onto a second partition on the A1138), an Opt select upon reboot showed selections for both partitions with boot volumes, but on the first display, the 10.6DP volume was unlabelled sans partition name. On that first boot attempt (verbose), it didn’t halt (there were several errors), but it did hang at a grey screen.

Following unsuccessful first boot and hard-reset (holding power button), I booted by accident into the Leopard partition. From there, I directed System Pref pane for Startup Volume toward the 10.6DP and rebooted. This second boot into 10.6DP reached the server setup steps. I filled in all setup info, but instead of starting the server and launching Finder, the system stayed on the blue screen for an extensive time. I decided to ssh into the A1138 from another box was was able to. From there, I sent a root command to reboot. That forced verbose display on the A1138 to show it was stuck on a couple of processes and, as with before, required another hard-reset.

On the second boot, the system successfully opened to the login screen and then opened Finder. For now, that’s where I am.

Picture 2.png



Edit with additional notes (ongoing):
  • One thing which is a bit sluggish is when opening the Applications window, as it drags responsiveness while it calculates the size of each application, but this is probably due to this being an early Finder version which didn’t reach golden master.
  • Another thing: “Verify/Repair Disk Permissions” in Disk Utility doesn’t really run. It starts and finishes with a couple of seconds. I tried opening the Leopard build of DiskUtil, which was not successful. Update: I ran Repair Disk Permissions on 10.6DP from Leopard boot without trouble.
  • When using the OSX86Tools (see first page of this thread) utility and trying to activate Enable/Disable Quartz GL, this modal error pops up:

    1588089069724.png

    This comports with the inability to get Radeon Mobility 9700 card; the Radeon 9xxx series kexts (and other ATI kexts) from Leopard; and the 10.6DP kexts (which lacked ATI Radeon 9xxx kexts) to work together. I did install ATIccelerator and set up the overclocking to match its usual settings in Leopard, but this has no impact on performance when the card can’t tap into QuartzExtreme/CoreImage.
  • There is possibly a hair less lag with TFF (FPR21) using @eyoungren’s last prefs.js file, but visible lag could also be from graphics re-drawing slowness relating to the previous bullet item.
  • Applications which run on my setup (and which haven’t been mentioned by others):
  • Application which launch on my setup but won’t do certain tasks: Software Update (even to check for Java updates); Disk Utility (won’t verify/repair permissions); iTunes 10.6.3 (launches, but then holds with one menubar item titled “iTunes”)
  • Applications which do not run on my setup: System Pref pane Printers


More later.
 
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jimjamyaha

macrumors member
Sep 2, 2003
46
59
@Larsvonhier

Have put the most updated info up here - here is the condensed version I've just found from 3 years ago when someone else asked the same question! (pushed the original ramblings below this)

In 2008 whilst I discovered it was possible to set these in OpenFirmware and that these were specific to the Pismo (ie not Desktop G4s) - these were often then overriden once MacOSX had booted by AppleThermal.kext. Therefore it only works for a bit before Mac OS X control takes over.

Assuming we can stop AppleThermal.kext loading then that'll be fine until I can dig out the old kext I made with modified values.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/lowendmac/permalink/10154244526911689/

1) type dev via-pmu
2) type dev power-mgt
3 type .properties
4) type 01010200 encode-int 00000000 encode-int encode+ 01010200 encode-int encode+ 00000000 encode-int encode+ " thermal-info" property
5) type .properties
6) type mac-boot
7) do some CPU intensive stuff
Nb note no space between the full stop and properties command in steps 3 and 5
Nb2 step 5 is to check that values have changed.
Nb3 note space before and after quote mark section of thermal-info command in step 4

As far as I know, from someone else advice, and more own deductions is that 48434843 for the 3rd values under thermal-info is actually 4843 and another set of 4843 which in C decimal is high temp of 72 and 43 is low temp of 67. I confirmed by looking in kext that this was the on and off temps for the fan... Ie turn on when 72 is reached and then turn off when back down to 67

If 19141914 used for third value pair would set it as on at 25 off at 20.

////

Original Ramblings:

Hello - I've not got a Pismo easily accessible right now. Can I ask for some help working out the commands again.

I've dredged these out of memory and the original thread at https://lists.apple.com/archives/darwin-dev/2008/Oct/msg00009.html

Essentially we need to

1) Boot into open firmware
2) Navigate the device tree until the right device and property
3) Modify the property.
4) Test.

Some NBs -

1) In 2008 whilst I discovered it was possible to set these in OpenFirmware and that these were specific to the Pismo (ie not Desktop G4s) - these were often then overriden once MacOSX had booted by AppleThermal.kext. Therefore it only works for a bit before Mac OS X control takes over.
Assuming we can stop AppleThermal.kext loading then that'll be fine until I can dig out the old kext I made with modified values.
2) AppleThermal is used by Pismo-era machines for the temperature and fan control
3) 72 and 67 degrees Celsius are the default fan-on and fan-off settings. The info below sets them to about 3c to make it run all the time - useful whilst testing.


So far the instructions I've constituted (could be missing some steps!) are:

1) Hold Apple-Alt-O-F to boot into Open Firmware

2) Complete the following commands:

a) Show the entire device tree:
dev / ls

b) Select PMU:
dev via-pmu

c) List PMU:
ls

d) Select Power-mgt:
dev power-mgt

e) display properties:
.properties

f) encode properties to turn it on right now after reboot:
01010200 encode-int 01010200 encode-int encode+ 48434843 encode-int encode+ 00000000 encode-int encode+ " thermal-info" property

If anyone with a Pismo can try this and let me know when something does/doesn't work we'll get it there in the end.


I spoke too soon: The IOI2CADT746x.kext is not there, but the AppleADT746x.kext has exactly that functionality and is loaded on my PB G4 15" 1Ghz. iStat sees four temps and both fan speeds with it.
On the Pismo, neither of those kexts gets loaded.

@jimjamyaha : Could you provide the OF command(s) needed for a one-shot?

Edit: G4fancontrol works as widget but main GUI app does not start. Perhaps a good excercise in re-compiling it for 10.6 from github sources? ;-)
[automerge]1588072589[/automerge]
 
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vddrnnr

macrumors 6502a
Jan 23, 2017
506
763
Hi B S M,

I've talked with Lars and he said he had been unable to find working kexts
with QE/CI until now.
But as I mentioned apart from "not so fluid" graphical animations the system
feels after than Leopard.
Do you feel the same?

PS don't forget to copy the kext i mentioned in post #60 that way you can have
working sensors and G4FanControl from the command line using /usr/sbin/G4FanControl

PS2. Welcome to SL Land :D

Best regards,
voidRunner
 

jimjamyaha

macrumors member
Sep 2, 2003
46
59
Once the process is a bit more stable for the newer machines is might be interesting to try add-in support for G4-upgraded PCI-based PowerMacs, adding in the missing kexts for platform and other hardware support, as per my work done in http://web.archive.org/web/20100204.../software-mods/mac-os/1571-leopard-on-pre-pci.

It will be interesting to see if any deeper PPC dependancies have been removed - as a lot of these older kexts used older methods and calls than the newer ones - only just managed to get 10.5 working. But, it did, as a lot of these received updates well into 10.5 development. However, they would have been missing right at the start of 10.6 development so might have had other dependencies totally removed.

Fingers Xs - and lets hope some more betas of 10.6 turn up with PPC.
 
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vddrnnr

macrumors 6502a
Jan 23, 2017
506
763
Hi B S M,

From my tests right now my findings are:

1. TenFourFox with MP4Enabler - OK
2. CCC - OK
3. G4FanControl from the command line ( no java working for the GUI ) - OK command line
4. ArcticFox PPC ( unfinished build but very usable and fast ) - OK
5. To have proper desktop background without weird banding use a tiled image from a custom folder
not the ones provided with the OS - OK
6. Textedit - Only works OK with txts not rtf
7. DVD Playback - OK with Tiger's DVD Player plus DVD Playback framework ( for now run the binary
in MacOS folder inside app as it complains about OS version )
8. Webkit- NOT OK fails to start with unsupported OS, linked apps try to start but end up failing
9. System Prefs - OK but title with "32 bit" text - Display Preference pane does not work on my G5 and Printers neve
work
10. Bluetooth - NOT OK on the PB system load at 100% with blued binary
11. Syslog - NOT OK on PB with system load at 100% with systemlogd binary
12. iStat Menus - OK
13. XMenu - OK
14. Safari is older than Leopard's haven't tried to copy Leopards version
15. Quicktime player - GUI says it is "expired" but if you copy the one leopard ( just the app ) it works

Best regards,
voidRunner
 
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Hi B S M,

I've talked with Lars and he said he had been unable to find working kexts
with QE/CI until now.
But as I mentioned apart from "not so fluid" graphical animations the system
feels after than Leopard.
Do you feel the same?

PS don't forget to copy the kext i mentioned in post #60 that way you can have
working sensors and G4FanControl from the command line using /usr/sbin/G4FanControl

PS2. Welcome to SL Land :D

Best regards,
voidRunner

Yeah, the desktop background remains blocky even after adding the ATI Radeon/9700 kexts (which are probably not written for use with this codebase). How were you able to get Core Image and Quartz Extreme to be recognized on your Quad G5?

One thing which is a bit sluggish is when opening the Applications window, as it drags responsiveness while it calculates the size of each application, but this is probably due to this being an early Finder version which didn’t reach golden master.

Another thing: “Verify/Repair Disk Permissions” in Disk Utility doesn’t really run. It starts and finishes with a couple of seconds. I tried opening the Leopard build of DiskUtil, which was not successful. Update: I ran Repair Disk Permissions on 10.6DP from Leopard boot without trouble.

(Yes, I have the above kext in place, and the system is running cool, thanks.)

The Finder windows are crisper in that distinctive Snow Leopard way, and it’s quite refreshing to see here!

Lastly, I don’t yet know which kext manages the backlit keyboard, but so far I haven’t been able to get it working. No, that was my error. As-is works.

[I’ll probably repeat these in my post above after I update it.]

Yes, this is amazing. :D
 
Last edited:

jimjamyaha

macrumors member
Sep 2, 2003
46
59
Great find. Now there is a chance that my Pismo does not cook to a halt after 20min. when on 10.6!
@0403979 and others perhaps working on installer (scripts): You might include this kext...

Hiya @Larsvonhier @0403979

I've found the customised kext for AppleThermal. It reads 2 sensors in the Pismo notionally GPU and CPU. The defaults on at 72C and off at 67C. There is a test mode within the kext to enable testing (on at 10C and off at 0C) - however I kept this off and added the thresholds to be much lower (maybe 55C - can't find this in the code anymore so not entirely sure).

[automerge]1588081110[/automerge]
HI @B S Magnet

One way we can find out which kexts are used it to match the low level openfirmware drivers...

Any chance you could boot into OpenFirmware (Apple-Alt-O-F) on boot and then type dev / ls and see what comes up.

We can do some digging for the all the devices.

I'm guessing that despite some computers having USB some driver stuff is handled using adb or proto-adb calls (on some platforms).

For example on Powerbook5,6 (yours is 5,4) there are these methods on the PowerManagement device
keyboard-type ledsoff ledson

So, in essence if we make sure at a basic that the PMU kext is working first, and then work down the list.

 

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weckart

macrumors 603
Nov 7, 2004
5,957
3,658
Hi weckart,

I first installed on a QUAD G5 so it was faster ;-).
I then copied it with CCC to a partition on the PBG4 HD.
I had no internet active and had no problems installing.

Best regards,
voidRunner
Mine got stuck on the very last config screen. All the ticks were there but it wouldn't complete and hours later I forced a restart. The config screen started again from the very first page but it suddenly rebooted after I selected my keyboard and came up again with the login screen. Problem is, it doesn't accept my credentials and I cannot log in. Annoying.

Didn't you need an internet connection when you installed it the first time? It won't let you proceed without an ethernet connection to the internet.
 

jimjamyaha

macrumors member
Sep 2, 2003
46
59
Heads-up for the kexts - one thing that helped a lot previously was to use this site to work out the changes between different versions.

Things that were helpful in particular were identifying when intel x86 stuff started coming into the kexts (some were dual) and also which PPC ones either were removed completely OR had PPC stuff stripped out. Obviously, some kexts are closed source - but this was helpful in addition to finding those on the various beta releases.

https://opensource.apple.com/
 

vddrnnr

macrumors 6502a
Jan 23, 2017
506
763
Hi B S M,

In my QUAD with a Geforce 6600 it's out of the box no additional
work required.
Also Lars has an ATI card and if I understood correctly everything is
out of the box also.

Best regards,
voidRunner
 
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Larsvonhier

macrumors 68000
Original poster
Aug 21, 2016
1,611
2,983
Germany, Black Forest
Mine got stuck on the very last config screen. All the ticks were there but it wouldn't complete and hours later I forced a restart. The config screen started again from the very first page but it suddenly rebooted after I selected my keyboard and came up again with the login screen. Problem is, it doesn't accept my credentials and I cannot log in. Annoying.

Didn't you need an internet connection when you installed it the first time? It won't let you proceed without an ethernet connection to the internet.
Do you stall at a progress bar almost at 100%?
Then the trick is to complete this phase on a MacBook (2006 or up). Once you got to the finder for the first time you can boot this volume on the G4/G5 Mac!
(That´s the "hidden" easter egg I described in the "what´s needed" section on page #1)

About the credentials: It´s a bit confusing (happened to me also!) that the server default admin login is _not_ the first admin user that you might have configured. I´ll take a screenshot of those two steps and add it on the Install Milestones section on #1 also.
 
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vddrnnr

macrumors 6502a
Jan 23, 2017
506
763
Hi weckat,

I was only connected through an wireless usb adaper when I started OSInstall
inside Leopard. When I rebooted I had no network.

Try this booting into single user mode ( taken from apple stackexchange )

1. Type fsck -fy
2. Type mount -uw /
3. Type passwd <your user username>

Best regards,
voidRunner
 
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weckart

macrumors 603
Nov 7, 2004
5,957
3,658
Do you stall at a progress bar almost at 100%?
Then the trick is to complete this phase on a MacBook (2006 or up). Once you got to the finder for the first time you can boot this volume on the G4/G5 Mac!
(That´s the "hidden" easter egg I described in the "what´s needed" section on page #1)

About the credentials: It´s a bit confusing (happened to me also!) that the server default admin login is _not_ the first admin user that you might have configured. I´ll take a screenshot of those two steps and add it on the Install Milestones section on #1 also.


Yes to all the above. Clearly, I missed the issue with the stalling at the last hurdle. My fault. I saw the issue with the credentials when I shoved in a Leopard DVD to reset the passwords. I just went back in as root to sort it out locally. Too put out to do it methodically.

So, here we are:

Picture 1.png

Hi weckat,

I was only connected through an wireless usb adaper when I started OSInstall
inside Leopard. When I rebooted I had no network.

No, I mean you need to be online in order to complete the second phase of the installation - the configuration of the Server including setting up the Admin account and entering the serial number. That has to be via ethernet as there is no way to input your router's password even if your WiFi card is supported.
 
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