Snow Leopard on Unsupported PowerPC Macs

[ChrisCharman]

Anything easy you can point to (so that I don’t need a day in Google)? I have zero experience with Xcode, but yes, I am willing to test it.

I have little experience with the IDE myself i’m afraid, i’ve only really used it while working on SL_PPC. Maybe try building some of the other projects from the examples folder? It would be good to update the wiki if other versions of Xcode are found to work - some of the findings (other than those posted by @B S Magnet) are from over a year ago and submitted by users that don’t seem to have posted anything on this thread for a long time.

 

[ChrisCharman]

Thank you very much!

P. S. Perhaps it's worth amending Xcode compatibility in Wiki. It is definitely not true that only 10A96 version of 3.2 work, since I am using 3.2 from 10A190 and it works too. 3.2 from 10A222 also works, but only the app itself. That is, one has to install it first, copy the app, uninstall everything, install 3.2 from 10A190 and use the copied app there. (I have copied the whole Developer folder just in case and keep both.)

It's possible the 10A222 Application launches on 10A190 because, when i was checking the different revisions to Libsystem, if i recall correctly, both of those builds share the same version - the only two builds that do in fact to the best of my knowledge and based on the builds available to me at the time. 10A222 is my preferred 'donor candidate' currently.

 

[barracuda156]

I have little experience with the IDE myself i’m afraid, i’ve only really used it while working on SL_PPC. Maybe try building some of the other projects from the examples folder? It would be good to update the wiki if other versions of Xcode are found to work - some of the findings (other than those posted by @B S Magnet) are from over a year ago and submitted by users that don’t seem to have posted anything on this thread for a long time.

I have just built TextEdit with Xcode 10A190:

 

[barracuda156]

@Hughmac There is a link in the Wiki regarding a fix you mentioned for TextEdit not being able to utilise .rtf files. I can't remember what build you were running when you experienced the issue, can you remember?

On my modified build of 10A190 (TextEdit 1.6 Bundle version 251) this isn't an issue. @barracuda156 are you able to test this on your machine please as you have modified the system to a lesser degree?

Either way, for anybody experiencing problems with the version of TextEdit on their system i have an alternative fix to using the Leopard app (Version 1.5 Bundle Version 244).

Attached to this post is version 1.6 (Bundle version 248) that i have built for PowerPC 10.6. It has been compiled for Snow Leopard but should also run on minimum system version 10.5.

@B S Magnet Could you please test this under 10A096 as i don't have a build imaged to a system at the moment?

Here is TextEdit build 257.

Built from examples folder of 10A261 using Xcode from 10A190.

 

[ChrisCharman]

Here is TextEdit build 257.

Built from examples folder of 10A261 using Xcode from 10A190.

I was hoping the later DPs would contain later source versions - will have to dig through the example folders of later builds and even later versions of Xcode now. Sample code is also available on ADC and the Developer DVDs.

I'm currently reviewing old documentation to try and figure out the disk mounting issues in 10A190.

 

[barracuda156]

I was hoping the later DPs would contain later source versions - will have to dig through the example folders of later builds and even later versions of Xcode now. Sample code is also available on ADC and the Developer DVDs.

I'm currently reviewing old documentation to try and figure out the disk mounting issues in 10A190.

Oh wow, that’s huge! I will need to free some space to download those DVDs. Have you looked through those, what is there? If yes, could you screenshot the contents?

P. S. I recon we will have to go through errors lists when trying to compile and modify relevant code files in order to make it work. For example, TextEdit 1.6b257 gives 1 error when compiled as is, and the build fails. It turned out Document.m file refers to some new feature of 10.6, which apparently is missing in 10A190. I just “commented” that particular code portion, and everything compiled and working.

 

[barracuda156]

Anyone using PowerBook G4 with 10.6 PPC, is it horribly slow or kinda bearable?

 

[ChrisCharman]

Oh wow, that’s huge! I will need to free some space to download those DVDs. Have you looked through those, what is there? If yes, could you screenshot the contents?

P. S. I recon we will have to go through errors lists when trying to compile and modify relevant code files in order to make it work. For example, TextEdit 1.6b257 gives 1 error when compiled as is, and the build fails. It turned out Document.m file refers to some new feature of 10.6, which apparently is missing in 10A190. I just “commented” that particular code portion, and everything compiled and working.

I was fortunate enough to be gifted a large number of them from various years when I purchased an OS X Leopard Student Developer Kit, as the seller was generous and offered to include them at no extra cost.

I’ve skimmed through all of the DVDs that i own, and downloaded others, but i was only looking for kernels/ kernel debug kits and Snow Leopard preview related files and documentation at the time. A more thorough examination is on my to do list.

Yeah I usually comment out as the initial workaround. I would suggest reading through the ADC documentation as it details specific API, Framework and System level changes between the different versions of OS X and also the reference documentation goes into great detail on porting, compiling, flags, symbol generation, 32/64bit transitioning and also explains what default settings the different compilers use if options aren’t specified by the developer, and much more.

The discs also contain a web archive of the ADC website at the specific date the DVD was distributed. Between the DVDs and the Wayback Machine we pretty much have access to all of the developer reference library for Leopard/Snow Leopard.

 

[ChrisCharman]

Anyone using PowerBook G4 with 10.6 PPC, is it horribly slow or kinda bearable?

I’m using a PowerBook G4 instead of the G5 these days and it’s perfectly useable. It’s my main testing machine at this point.

 

[B S Magnet]

Anyone using PowerBook G4 with 10.6 PPC, is it horribly slow or kinda bearable?

For all of my testing, I’ve only ever used the PowerBook5,8 and it works well. In the past, I’ve remarked how, in some ways, working with 10A96 on the PowerBook feels quicker than using 10.5.8 on the same PowerBook.

 

[barracuda156]

Could anyone say if a 32-bit compiler can build for 64-bit? Or do I need to start from scratch in order to end up with 64-bit R?

P. S. I have reinstalled 10.5.8 onto second volume and building ports there now. I hope to figure out if some ports fail on 10.6 due to poorer support of Darwin 10 and not just due to PPC architecture. If I manage to get further with ports on 10.5.8 than I did on 10.6, I will post an update here.

 

[barracuda156]

By the way, Xcode from 10A286 installed on 10A190, but – unsurprisingly – was unusable. App is still seen as universal but crashes on start, like the one from 10A261. Didn’t bother to test any further, I assume compilers fail as well. I did copy Developer folder for further reference however, before deleting second install of 10A190 and installing 10.5.8 there (seeing how many issues arise with Sorbet Leo, I will probably skip it altogether – one experimental OS is already too much LOL).

 

[B S Magnet]

By the way, Xcode from 10A286 installed on 10A190, but – unsurprisingly – was unusable. App is still seen as universal but crashes on start, like the one from 10A261. Didn’t bother to test any further, I assume compilers fail as well. I did copy Developer folder for further reference however, before deleting second install of 10A190 and installing 10.5.8 there (seeing how many issues arise with Sorbet Leo, I will probably skip it altogether – one experimental OS is already too much LOL).

Ahhh Slurpée Leopard…

 

[ChrisCharman]

Could anyone say if a 32-bit compiler can build for 64-bit? Or do I need to start from scratch in order to end up with 64-bit R?

Do you mean a compiler running on a 32bit machine, or a compiler built as a 32bit binary?

With GCC you need to specify the CFLAGS and LDFLAGS.

--build This flag is used to tell the compiler the build machine

--host This flag is used to tell GCC the machine you’re building for

--target This flag is used to tell GCC which machine to build the binary for

-mmacosx-version-min=10.(version number) Minimum version of OS X being targeted.

Other useful flags:

-O2
-arch
-mcpu=cpu-type
-mpowerpc64
-maltivec
-mno-altivec
-m32
-m64
-mno-prototype
-mbig-endian

A full list of flags will be included in the documentation for the compiler, also the Apple reference documentation.

If build, host and target are defined as the same the the code is being compiled ‘native’.

If host and target are identical, but you specify ‘build’ to be different then you are using a ‘cross-compiler’ to build ‘native’ for a different architecture.

If build, host and target are all different then it’s a ‘Canadian’ cross build.

If you want to target PowerPC running Mac OS X then you would specify:

powerpc-apple-darwin9 OS X 10.5 Leopard

Or

powerpc-apple-darwin10 OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard

Obviously we are using a system that isn’t widely utilised and so sometimes it might be necessary to alter makefiles, or refer to the bootstrap instructions within the sources to bootstrap a new build for our Snow Leopard on PowerPC systems.

 

[barracuda156]

Do you mean a compiler running on a 32bit machine, or a compiler built as a 32bit binary?

Sorry for being unclear. I meant if I can build a particular port as 64 bit, while my gcc is built as 32 bit. (Rebuilding gcc for 64 bit will be another nightmare.)
Machine is G5, but 10.6 is not properly 64 bit, especially our developer builds.

 

[ChrisCharman]

Sorry for being unclear. I meant if I can build a particular port as 64 bit, while my gcc is built as 32 bit. (Rebuilding gcc for 64 bit will be another nightmare.)
Machine is G5, but 10.6 is not properly 64 bit, especially our developer builds.

I’m unsure as to why you want to do this? What are you trying to do exactly? I’m also not an expert so i can only share what I’ve learned while taking part in this project i’m afraid. You should probably do a google search or read the documentation for the specific compiler you’re using, and read through the ‘INSTALL’ and ‘README’ files included in the source for what you’re trying to build. If you’re not compiling from source and you’re referring to ports on macports then unfortunately i know even less about macports configuration than i do the command line tools.

 

[B S Magnet]

Ridiculously minor stuff:

• Uploading Build 10A354 to the garden is being tetchy, but I’m trying again tonight. Archive-dot-org mirrors will follow in the coming little bit.
• If you’re inclined, have a look at the WikiPost editing history for how things have been kept up and also how I’m making sure the character count is included (since we’ve been right at the 100K-char limit now for a spell and change). At some point, we’ll need to ask the mods if they’d be ok with bumping up the cap once more, since there will be more testing data to include as we continue to work on the project.
• I can confirm that the build of TextEdit @barracuda156 compiled on Build 10A190, using the Build 10A261 Xcode sample sources, launches and runs correctly on Build 10A96. Thanks for sharing that!
• I’m still looking for a copy of Resourcerer for OS X, to work on Finder.rsrc and other system-related resource forks. That abandoned utility is scarcer than a set of hen’s teeth.

 

[maxoakland]

the most evolved kexts for Apple’s version of ZFS lived before Apple yanked the plug on its development (over such a petty, petty reason… and it wouldn’t be for another eight years before a completely different, but completely proprietary stand-in called APFS was conjured up).

What was the reason? I’ve never heard anything about that

 

[B S Magnet]

What was the reason? I’ve never heard anything about that

There are two different stories, with probably both having some merit to them. The first — and official — is Apple and Sun couldn’t reach a licensing agreement. The other story is Sun CEO apparently scooped Steve Jobs just ahead of the WWDC, and this infuriated Jobs so deeply that within a week, Jobs iced Apple’s plans.

 

[barracuda156]

I’m unsure as to why you want to do this? What are you trying to do exactly? I’m also not an expert so i can only share what I’ve learned while taking part in this project i’m afraid. You should probably do a google search or read the documentation for the specific compiler you’re using, and read through the ‘INSTALL’ and ‘README’ files included in the source for what you’re trying to build. If you’re not compiling from source and you’re referring to ports on macports then unfortunately i know even less about macports configuration than i do the command line tools.

The version of R 4.1.2 that I built is 32 bit because I have been using a setting in Macports configuration to build for ppc (not ppc64). R-app, according to their documentation, requires 64-bit base R. So I am thinking what will be the easier way to build 64-bit R.

When I tried to use port upgrade +universal (after defining universal as ppc ppc64), it started to download gcc7, which I already have built as 32-bit. Obviously I may let it rebuild everything, I just though there may be a less troublesome way.

 

[barracuda156]

On an unrelated note: does anyone know where to locate a copy of Resourcerer 2.4.1 (the carbonized OS X version), released back in 2001? It’s not on the garden, which is somewhat surprising. I need a utility like this to view and edit the few, but still important .rsrc resource fork files for components such as Finder.

This one is wrong version? https://www.macintoshrepository.org/1052-resorcerer-2-x

 

[barracuda156]

Ridiculously minor stuff:

• I’m still looking for a copy of Resourcerer for OS X, to work on Finder.rsrc and other system-related resource forks. That abandoned utility is scarcer than a set of hen’s teeth.

I have installed 2.4.1 on 10.5.8 now and it seems to be functional. Cannot check with 10.6 right now.

Also check this thread: https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/resedit-for-os-x.13325/
Apparently there are similar apps: MacResourceDog, ResFool and ResKnife.

 

[ChrisCharman]

If you’re inclined, have a look at the WikiPost editing history for how things have been kept up and also how I’m making sure the character count is included (since we’ve been right at the 100K-char limit now for a spell and change). At some point, we’ll need to ask the mods if they’d be ok with bumping up the cap once more, since there will be more testing data to include as we continue to work on the project.

The 100k character limit is indeed very restrictive, and the main reason i have been reluctant to add to the 10A190 findings as it would mean increasingly reducing the existing content. If the mods will not allow us to extend the wiki post then we may have to split into two separate threads; one for 10A096 based builds and another for 10A190 developments. Even then, cross referencing between the two threads will be a pain.

@B S Magnet what is the character limit for non-wiki posts and is there a way to make them ‘sticky’ so that they attach at the root of the thread, below the Wiki?

 

[ChrisCharman]

The version of R 4.1.2 that I built is 32 bit because I have been using a setting in Macports configuration to build for ppc (not ppc64). R-app, according to their documentation, requires 64-bit base R. So I am thinking what will be the easier way to build 64-bit R.

When I tried to use port upgrade +universal (after defining universal as ppc ppc64), it started to download gcc7, which I already have built as 32-bit. Obviously I may let it rebuild everything, I just though there may be a less troublesome way.

Oh ok I understand what you mean now. I would have suggested to do what you have already done, which will of course replace your current 32bit version with a new 64bit copy. I don’t see anyway around a recompile unfortunately but maybe others will know more and offer a shortcut.

 

[B S Magnet]

This one is wrong version? https://www.macintoshrepository.org/1052-resorcerer-2-x

It isn’t! Thank you!

I swore I searched the MR and found nothing there, so I’m glad I was wrong!

The 100k character limit is indeed very restrictive, and the main reason i have been reluctant to add to the 10A190 findings as it would mean increasingly reducing the existing content. If the mods will not allow us to extend the wiki post then we may have to split into two separate threads; one for 10A096 based builds and another for 10A190 developments. Even then, cross referencing between the two threads will be a pain.

We’ll need to ask the moderators to increase the limit again, much as was the case about six months ago when the cap was raised from 70K to 100K. I think keeping all our work in one place outweighs having to split it into two.

@B S Magnet what is the character limit for non-wiki posts and is there a way to make them ‘sticky’ so that they attach at the root of the thread, below the Wiki?

I don’t know, but I imagine it’s way shorter than 70K (the Wiki module to the forum software is an add-on). Also, no, I don’t believe there is a way to make sticky posts within a thread.