So who is Returning their ATV over the Switch Issue?

[priitv8]

That was a question I had with regards to iTunes content, HDR, and the new ATV4K. If the movie indicates 4K and DV, there's no [implied] HDR10 encoding from the source, it's just 4K resolution + on-the-fly ATV4K HDR-like output (if your TV is HDR10 but not DV compatible)[?]

I definitely do not believe DV content is being converted to "fake" HDR10 via SDR.
I share more the opinion of marvin_h here:

https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...elivering-4k-hdr.2073222/page-3#post-25153002

This solution (to have a HDR10 base layer and DV enhancement layer) is more logical, and incidentally seems to be the tech also UHD blurays in DV use.
If you look at the screenshots with media info on that thread, you can see that apple streams SDR and HDR versions of the same movie in different codecs.
So my guess is there are 2 versions (just like there were 3 versions so far: SD, 720p and 1080p) on their server and appropriate one is streamed depending on if your aTV requests a SDR or HDR rendering of the movie.

And yes, a DV HDR movie plays ok on my Bravia, that is HDR10 only. I mean equally well compared to other HDR10 movies I have. Can not compare to any Dolby Vision rendering, yet. According to Sony, DV support is due this year for very select list of models.

 

[Marshall73]

4 year old iPhone design.

Slight size changes to iPads

And.....same watch design 3 years....

His done nothing other than go Steve balmer on the product range

I think that you will find that the design of Apple devices didn't change much quicker under Steve Jobs, one design, revised internals over 3-4 years before major redesigns, if even that as most design changes are refinements or changes of form factor. The internet is full of those with short memories or rather time compressed memories who look back on the past with rose coloured spectacles. Don't worry, you are not the only old fool out there but take comfort in the fact the the new generation of purchasers aren't old and embittered like you have become and have made Apple a huge company whilst you sit in a corner and recount tales of 'when I was a lad...'

 

[danieleilertsen]

I suggest everyone reports the switch issue and other suggestions here:

https://www.apple.com/feedback/appletv.html

 

[MH01]

I think that you will find that the design of Apple devices didn't change much quicker under Steve Jobs, one design, revised internals over 3-4 years before major redesigns, if even that as most design changes are refinements or changes of form factor. The internet is full of those with short memories or rather time compressed memories who look back on the past with rose coloured spectacles. Don't worry, you are not the only old fool out there but take comfort in the fact the the new generation of purchasers aren't old and embittered like you have become and have made Apple a huge company whilst you sit in a corner and recount tales of 'when I was a lad...'

The difference being that Jobs was against fragmention of products . One of the first thing he did upon returning to apple was simplifying the lines. Right now the iPhone and iPad lines are a mess. We should just have iPad, none of this pro crap , it's just iPad Air 3, and two premium phones on the 8 and X, how confusing is this getting.

 

[D.T.]

I definitely do not believe DV content is being converted to "fake" HDR10 via SDR.
I share more the opinion of marvin_h here:

https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...elivering-4k-hdr.2073222/page-3#post-25153002

This solution (to have a HDR10 base layer and DV enhancement layer) is more logical, and incidentally seems to be the tech also UHD blurays in DV use.
If you look at the screenshots with media info on that thread, you can see that apple streams SDR and HDR versions of the same movie in different codecs.
So my guess is there are 2 versions (just like there were 3 versions so far: SD, 720p and 1080p) on their server and appropriate one is streamed depending on if your aTV requests a SDR or HDR rendering of the movie.

And yes, a DV HDR movie plays ok on my Bravia, that is HDR10 only. I mean equally well compared to other HDR10 movies I have. Can not compare to any Dolby Vision rendering, yet. According to Sony, DV support is due this year for very select list of models.

Thanks for additional thoughts on this - that was my assumption as well (I had combed through the thread you linked previously, but appreciate pointing out that specific post), an SDR and HDR source, the latter being either non-DV HDR that will look good on set with HDR10, or HDR with an additional meta-data layer to provide the DV enhancement when the equipment allows for it.

Funny enough, I've seen a few UHD BDs that are equally ambiguous, just "HDR", no clarification about the standard.

 

[Marshall73]

The difference being that Jobs was against fragmention of products . One of the first thing he did upon returning to apple was simplifying the lines. Right now the iPhone and iPad lines are a mess. We should just have iPad, none of this pro crap , it's just iPad Air 3, and two premium phones on the 8 and X, how confusing is this getting.

iPod, iPod video, iPod mini, iPod nano, iPod touch, iPod shuffle... all under Jobs, should I go on, PMSL.

 

[steve gee]

Returning mine

 

[priitv8]

Funny enough, I've seen a few UHD BDs that are equally ambiguous, just "HDR", no clarification about the standard.

At this point in time, I believe BDA has settled for ST.2084 (PQ) based standards only, that means HDR10 in most cases. If there is DV rendering on board, this should be clearly visible on the sleeve art.
How HDR10+ will muddy waters in the future, who knows?

 

[ActionableMango]

According to all the reviews my C7 Cinema Mode and EXP modes, supposedly, is a very close match to what "calibration" accomplishes out of the box. I've also used calibration disks in the past and honestly I think most "calibration," makes the picture look look dark and washed out. I also wouldn't pay $200 to have my TV "professionally calibrated," I think it's mostly a scam. But that's just me.

Mmm1345, people have different tastes in how a picture should look. A lot of people, possibly even most people, prefer brighter images and some or all of the enhancements on. It sounds like you are in this group. For example a realistic-looking yellow tulip is mundane and it looks much better with extra brightness and vibrancy. Hyper-realism is what knocks the socks off of these people. The TV manufacturers wouldn't be spending time and money engineering these features into the sets if everyone hated them.

Other people (like me) prefer accuracy, and so we do things like eyeball calibration with a disc, turning off most or all the enhancement features, or even paying for a professional greyscale calibration. These things make the picture look better to me. What knocks my socks off is a picture that looks as much like real life as possible. To me, a tulip on my screen should look like a tulip in real life as if my TV were a window pane opening to the actual world outside. Forgive my hyperbole, but a tulip should look just like a tulip and not look like a radioactive power flower with a built-in light source competing against the very sun itself.

Every screen is different too. Despite my strong preference for accuracy and detail, on one of my cheap monitors I've turned the brightness farther down than calibration wanted. This causes black crush in the dark areas, but that is preferable to me because in my opinion I'd rather have loss of dark detail than have bright grey as black. In this sense I am not a calibration purist.

Since preferences are subjective, I 100% believe that nobody is "right" or "wrong". Set your TV to how you prefer because you are the audience and not me.

But to say that calibration is a scam is a pretty far off. Even if I just do a disc calibration with eyeball (and blue filter), the picture is noticeably better. To me, on a great TV, having the brightness down from default isn't dull at all. What I see in the bright areas is an explosion of detail and in the dark areas it is as if a thin grey translucent filter was removed from the TV.

 

[garethjs]

I have a 2016 B6.. can you explain again what the difference is? Basically, your 4K hdr setting works perfectly? That does suck for us B6 people who were false sold on future proofing that evidently is non existent. Is this fixable in a software update? I think I saw there is a petition for an update or something. I got a b6 for my bedroom, might move it into the living room and get a C7 for the bedroom.

I’m extremely pissed off too. I spend a fortune on an OLED E6 and then damn thing is useless this year. No VP9 YouTube support and no 60hz DV support as well

 

[Frosties]

I’m extremely pissed off too. I spend a fortune on an OLED E6 and then damn thing is useless this year. No VP9 YouTube support and no 60hz DV support as well

Well no one to date have the next codec AV1 that will be used for Netflix youtube after vp9. Early adapter tax and the new evolving standards. That is just what the deal is as of yet. Be happy with your tv because something new and better will always come next year and next release.

 

[pooter03]

I have a 2016 LG OLED C6. Which resolution setting should I use for Dolby Vision movie titles? What about HD movies?

I use DV 24hz for DV movies and 1080p 60hz on SDR HD movies on my B6.

 

[jlasoon]

I just returned mine, replaced it with another NVIDIA Shield. Apple hardware is fine, but the software has become a nuisance. What a mess!

 

[PTVMan]

I use DV 24hz for DV movies and 1080p 60hz on SDR HD movies on my B6.

Thanks. I'll give those settings a try on my C6.

 

[mmm1345]

Well no one to date have the next codec AV1 that will be used for Netflix youtube after vp9. Early adapter tax and the new evolving standards. That is just what the deal is as of yet. Be happy with your tv because something new and better will always come next year and next release.

The LG OLED TVs runs YouTube through WebOS and you can view full 4K/HDR/HLG content through the built in YouTube app. I run YouTube on my C7 and before then B6 with zero issues. The new codecs aren't even widely available yet, so there's on point in even being angry since they aren't impacting anything.

 

[bluespark]

The rule should be that anytime a device adds processing to audio or video, there should be a user-selectable way to turn that processing off.

 

[Spankey]

The LG OLED TVs runs YouTube through WebOS and you can view full 4K/HDR/HLG content through the built in YouTube app. I run YouTube on my C7 and before then B6 with zero issues. The new codecs aren't even widely available yet, so there's on point in even being angry since they aren't impacting anything.

The 2016 OLED's can play YoutTube 4k but not HDR. The firmware was never released for them.
[doublepost=1507230621][/doublepost]

I’m extremely pissed off too. I spend a fortune on an OLED E6 and then damn thing is useless this year. No VP9 YouTube support and no 60hz DV support as well

It is quite a list. Add to that the Dolby Vision Golden Reference file for Calman calibration. At least I can get DV pretty close after HDR was calibrated.

LG sold these as future proof reference TV's at a pretty high price. Disgusted.

 

[wannabeastar30]

ok I may have to change my opinion a bit, Im having issue playing non 4K movies from iTunes, I played Civil War and the picture quality is great but the motion makes me feel sick. Weird as I don't notice this on Netflix or TV apps, just on iTunes.

[doublepost=1507231276][/doublepost]Civil War is a Disney movie and it's source data is not even 4K content. Your Apple TV is attempting to upconvert. You should change the selection to 1080 SDR

 

[ActionableMango]

I run YouTube on my ... B6 with zero issues.

I doubt it. Only the G6 got the firmware update enabling Youtube HDR. B6, C6, and E6 were all left out. I have an E6 and can't do it.

 

[Packers1958]

I’m extremely pissed off too. I spend a fortune on an OLED E6 and then damn thing is useless this year. No VP9 YouTube support and no 60hz DV support as well

deleted

 

[Mac 128]

Although I do have 2 other ATVs, this is exactly why, I'll most likely keep it. Because I do want the 4K capability (even though it seems "fake" to me) and it's "only $200", I'm just really disappointed in Apple. I hate Android TV and my cable provider doesn't support it (I do have an Nvida Shield that I never use) and not a fan of Roku.

What did you end up doing?

I was going to "protest" by returning it over the auto format switching issue, and the 10-14 steps it takes me to switch back and forth to watch one 4K HDR movie. And I just discovered that it doesn't support 1080p 24Hz this weekend.

As of today, my 15 day return window has passed. I could probably strong arm Apple, but they'd probably give me a gift card, and wouldn't be worth the hassle. I do like and use other aspects of it over my ATV3., so I would miss those, even though they're not worth the $100 upgrade.

However, if they don't release the Amazon app by December 31, I will return this thing, and force them to refund me in cash, based on false advertising. It's October, so not much time left to get that app to market and fulfill the claim of "later this year".
[doublepost=1507492201][/doublepost]

Im not sure at all, that we ever will get the automatic switching. But if, i bet it will take some time.

I also agree we're not likely to get it, based on typical Apple response to customers.

The only reason I think there's a chance, is because I can't figure out why we didn't get it to begin with, except as a safe guard for new customers to Apple TV who might have been annoyed at the time it took to switch between video formats, which can be worse on some TVs than others. Having a "native" option might be accidentally selected by a customer during setup, and create a bad experience for them without understanding why. Adding the capability later, once the ATV has gotten good reviews from the average customer, then ensures a successful launch, and ultimately appeases the relatively minor number of video enthusiasts.

 

[mmm1345]

What did you end up doing?

I was going to "protest" by returning it over the auto format switching issue, and the 10-14 steps it takes me to switch back and forth to watch one 4K HDR movie. And I just discovered that it doesn't support 1080p 24Hz this weekend.

As of today, my 15 day return window has passed. I could probably strong arm Apple, but they'd probably give me a gift card, and wouldn't be worth the hassle. I do like and use other aspects of it over my ATV3., so I would miss those, even though they're not worth the $100 upgrade.

However, if they don't release the Amazon app by December 31, I will return this thing, and force them to refund me in cash, based on false advertising. It's October, so not much time left to get that app to market and fulfill the claim of "later this year".
[doublepost=1507492201][/doublepost]

I also agree we're not likely to get it, based on typical Apple response to customers.

The only reason I think there's a chance, is because I can't figure out why we didn't get it to begin with, except as a safe guard for new customers to Apple TV who might have been annoyed at the time it took to switch between video formats, which can be worse on some TVs than others. Having a "native" option might be accidentally selected by a customer during setup, and create a bad experience for them without understanding why. Adding the capability later, once the ATV has gotten good reviews from the average customer, then ensures a successful launch, and ultimately appeases the relatively minor number of video enthusiasts.

kept it and hope it gets better. Returning it was too much trouble.

 

[Agent2015]

Definitely keeping mine and just ordered another ATV 4K. Very happy with mine.

 

[NameUndecided]

I was looking forward to getting one either this week or very soon, depending on reviews and feedback. Now I'm holding off.

I've just got a new 4k TV and have calibrated it myself (though I don't have the test signals to calibrate for HDR at this time). I currently don't want to "upgrade" my current ATV4 at risk of making SDR content look any worse after I've spent time balancing out my settings.

Maybe I will buy one to test it out and see, but currently I don't feel like going through a test period with it and having to return it. It's not worth the potential upgrade in their 4K HDR titles if most all else of what I watch might be ticked down a notch -- or if I'd have to go through and change Apple's output settings before I watch each thing. I hope that some software upgrades come in sooner than never.

This is me quoting my own post and updating to say -- I've had mine for about four weeks and I really don't mind switching manually. Mostly because I'm going between SDR 60, Dolby 60, SDR 24, and Dolby 24. It's not that big of a deal to me. It takes so little amount of time to switch modes. I enjoy having the choice. And I don't think automatic switching would cover the way I'm choosing when to switch between 60 or 24.
So, um, lol… nevermind. Switching manually is fine (for me).

 

[Mac 128]

This is me quoting my own post and updating to say -- I've had mine for about four weeks and I really don't mind switching manually. Mostly because I'm going between SDR 60, Dolby 60, SDR 24, and Dolby 24. It's not that big of a deal to me. It takes so little amount of time to switch modes. I enjoy having the choice. And I don't think automatic switching would cover the way I'm choosing when to switch between 60 or 24.
So, um, lol… nevermind. Switching manually is fine (for me).

What's even easier is having the ATV automatically switch it for you, rather than going through the 10-14 steps to switch back and forth between two resolutions. Just because you're used to doing it doesn't mean it's not a problem.

And if you're not using the native settings for your video sources, then you never cared about this issue to begin with. Regardless, the rest of us do care to have the correct image for any given video source without having to know in advance what those settings are and then digging through nested menus to change it every time.