Something to ask yourself about the iPad and it's feature set.......

[Bytor65]

Let me fix that for you.

As it stands now, the iPad can't be considered a desktop computer squished into tablet form.

It isn't intended to replace your desktop/laptop, so it doesn't need to duplicate all the functionality of desktop.

The market for an iPad will break into two groups:

A: People who would never use a computer otherwise (ex my Mom), who won't find anything missing, because they never used anything else.

B: Computer comfortable users who already have a computer and will use this as a secondary device for what it is best at.

Almost everyone could fit into one of those groups and neither really needs desktop functionality in a tablet.

In forums we see the extreme version of group B. Techy geeks who probably have 3 computers and a few gadgets, yet they vociferously complain that the iPad must do everything despite having a house full of other gadgets to already do those more serious activities they complain are missing.

IMO it is preferable to deliver an excellent user experience on a subset of activities, than a mediocre user experience on desktop like range of activities.

If you want that wide ranging mediocre experience (desktop squished into tablet form) there is a growing list of devices to provide that:
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/867184/

 

[admanimal]

You want each app to manage only the files of that particular type? That's ridiculous. You would to have to launch Pages to attach a word processing document to an email, launch numbers to attach a spreadsheet, launch photos to attach a picture, and launch a PDF app to attach a PDF. You would have to launch a particular app just to do basic things like renaming or deleting a file.

No, the solution is pretty simple. If you want to attach a file, you click on the attach button in mail, it brings up a list of apps with documents. You tap on the app and then the document you want. This beats the current method of randomly searching you drive for a file (remember most average users have no sense of how to organize their drive).

I would reply to your other points too but I'm typing on an iPhone. Think outside the desktop.

 

[JonHimself]

I'm not writing this as a, "You're wrong and this is why" type response, but just to give you a different perspective on some of these things.

1.) Print. Users print documents from a variety of programs on their computers.

This is just from my experience and my immediate group of people I talk with, but after getting smart phones I find I print less and less (to the point where I don't even own a printer now). Resumes are submitted as PDFs, letters as e-mails, map directions are either accessible on the device or can be copied into an e-mail, notepad, to-do lists and other things that I would need to have a hard copy of can also be saved in any number of apps (notepads, emails, evernote, etc). I recently didn't even need to print off my e-ticket for my flight, a PDF was saved in iDisk, Evernote and my e-mail.
Of course printing IS necessary sometimes, but with cloud-type apps and e-mails - AND with Apple's focus on the environment - I see printing becoming less and less necessary.

2.) Manage files. Users save and manage their own documents on the computer everyday. It's not about browsing every directory and system file on the hard drive. It's about accessing their own files which they copy, organize, rename, email, and delete.

I like file folders as much as the next person, but I'm one of those people that buys into letting iTunes, iPhone, etc manage my file directories and keep them organized. For documents I use my iDisk or Dropbox so the files are saved/stored on there and I can then access my own files, copy, organize, rename, e-mail and delete them. Not with as much freedom as Finder, but still works pretty well.

3.) Connect USB devices. Users connect all types of USB devices to their computers, especially thumb drives for easy file transfers. The beauty of USB is that you just connect the device and it just works because all the necessary drivers are loaded automatically.

I like the idea of carrying around a thumb drive or SD card with important files but I've come to rely on iDisk and Dropbox - and then sharing files that way so that other users can get their own copies even when I'm no there to actually hand them a thumb drive.

4.) Download codecs and driver updates. When users come across media, etc. that the computer doesn't support, usually the necessary components will be downloaded automatically, transparent to the user. This allows the device to stay current and not limit the user to a predefined set of supported formats.

Seeing as it's in the iPod ecosystem, the files that you can play are - and have always been - limited. Much like iPhoto/iTunes, I've bought into using Handbrake to encode my DVDs in that supported format - they also work on my xbox, friends PS3, etc. I like not having to manage all kinds of different files and file types - I know my media is going to be AAC or H.264. It sucks if you need to play MKVs or DIVX, but even then - if it's a real concern, extra steps can be taken to get them to work (though I understand it'd be easier to just get codecs once than convert over and over)

5.) Multi-task. Users are used to opening multiple programs at once, but more importantly, they are used to switching back and forth between them very quickly.

This is the only thing I want and have no defense/alternative opinion for. I want to use my iPad on the couch instead of my laptop but I also want to be able to listen to Sirius in the background - this will be accomplished by jailbreaking but I wish the support was there. As for push notifications in IM clients - the pop-ups can be turned off in favour of just sounds/vibration and a badge though that means still looking for which app received the notification BUT prevents the pop-ups.

Device isn't perfect, depending on what you're using it for, but for me at least, a lot of what you've mentioned is not a concern.

 

[samcraig]

No, the solution is pretty simple. If you want to attach a file, you click on the attach button in mail, it brings up a list of apps with documents. You tap on the app and then the document you want. This beats the current method of randomly searching you drive for a file (remember most average users have no sense of how to organize their drive).

I would reply to your other points too but I'm typing on an iPhone. Think outside the desktop.

I love random FOAs - that would be fact out of the air

Really? Most average users have no sense of how to organize their drive?

Can you link me to a survey, a study, a document at all that supports your "claim"

People would do a lot better in debating here if they didn't try to pass their opinions off as facts and just leave them as opinions.

 

[admanimal]

I love random FOAs - that would be fact out of the air

Really? Most average users have no sense of how to organize their drive?

Can you link me to a survey, a study, a document at all that supports your "claim"

People would do a lot better in debating here if they didn't try to pass their opinions off as facts and just leave them as opinions.

No I don't have an official survey to back it up but if you think that the truly average computer user has a clue about it, you are delusional. I know people who are actually more proficient than average and they still think their files are saved "in Word" or "in Excel" rather than in any folder on their hard drive.

 

[samcraig]

No I don't have an official survey to back it up but if you think that the truly average computer user has a clue about it, you are delusional. I know people who are actually more proficient than average and they still think their files are saved "in Word" or "in Excel" rather than in any folder on their hard drive.

Ok - if you want to name call based on my questioning you - I can say you must have stupid friends or acquaintances then. See how that works?

Again - just because you know people who have no clue - doesn't mean that's the norm.

It's ok to admit when things are just YOUR opinion or YOUR experience - just don't try to turn that into a fact.

 

[racer1441]

Ok - if you want to name call based on my questioning you - I can say you must have stupid friends or acquaintances then. See how that works?

Again - just because you know people who have no clue - doesn't mean that's the norm.

It's ok to admit when things are just YOUR opinion or YOUR experience - just don't try to turn that into a fact.

It is pretty much a fact. 90-95% of all computer users are complete morons. Look how many crappy computers are bought every day from stores like Best Buy, or even worst, some idiot running a 'computer repair shop' out of some mini-mall.

 

[samcraig]

It is pretty much a fact. 90-95% of all computer users are complete morons. Look how many crappy computers are bought every day from stores like Best Buy, or even worst, some idiot running a 'computer repair shop' out of some mini-mall.

You've taken his "fact" and turned into a GROSS exaggeration. Congrats. You're even more ridiculous than the poster I was commenting on.

 

[Bytor65]

My current circle of friends are almost all engineers/comp Sci folks working in computer tech jobs. So of course they understand file systems.

But when I go visit family in small town nowhere, the people who didn't go to university and only use a computer for email/web don't grasp file systems at all. I know some that pay to have someone clean up their computer once/year. Their desktop is usually a massive garbage dump.

I won't hazard a guess at the numbers of people that have issues with computers, but I see both sides here.

I do think it is actually better to hide the file system for whatever part of the population that has difficulty with file systems. But for myself would like to have file manager/control.

Likewise I think it is better that Apple control the application installation. But again, I would prefer to have the ability to install any applications.

In the end I think it would damage the platform more to cater to me than to those who will just have more grief if you open the apps/file system. This device is meant to be simpler than a regular desktop/laptop and this is part of the way it is achieved.

 

[marksman]

I don't understand this desire for some people to want to "manage files".

I don't want to manage files, I want to use content.

I don't care where anything I use is, I search for pretty much everything I need.

It is not 1991.

 

[Night Spring]

I don't want to manage files, I want to use content.

I don't care where anything I use is, I search for pretty much everything I need.

While I do agree with you that my primary goal is to use content, if I know where the content is, I don't need to waste time searching. This is why I manage my files manually, so I always know where everything is. But apparently, this is not easy to do for people who don't quite know their way around a computer. My mother, who is super organized in real life, finds it a challenge to keep her computer files organized. She does know what files and folders are, but apparently, programs keep saving them somewhere where she can't find them. I'm not sure what she's missing, because I always manage to make my programs save their files where I want them, but there must be some trick I do unconsciously that isn't obvious to people like my mom. I'm actually curious to see how the iPad handles files, now that it has iWorks and other productivity apps are sure to follow. As people have pointed out, there *are* times you want to manipulate files without having to go through its associated app, as well as share files among multiple apps. If Apple manages to solve the file system issue, the iPad could be a powerful productivity tool. If not, it's a very nice and pleasant to use entertainment device, with light productivity functions thrown in for a bonus.

 

[samcraig]

your "trick" is that you just don't blindly hit save. You look and select which folder to save your file to. Program default to saving to the last place or to it's own "root" folder. Often, you have to manually select where you want it. And while some people will think that the average joe shouldn't have to worry/think about this - so the iPad is perfect - I would disagree (at least for my workflow and many others) that it's useful to be able to organize files in a way you want.

A case in point - I'm buying an apartment and working on several required docs. I want them all saved - but in a folder called "apartment." I might also want subfolders in that main one for reference letters, financials, etc.

I (and no one I think) really knows how the iPad will handle folders/file saving. But if everything gets dumped into one main directory (for iWork - for example) without the ability to make subfolders - I find that a major weakness in the idea of keeping things organized.

 

[SchneiderMan]

I mostly agree with you OP, but i would still get an iPad because of the form factor the and bigger screen.

 

[Night Spring]

your "trick" is that you just don't blindly hit save. You look and select which folder to save your file to. Program default to saving to the last place or to it's own "root" folder. Often, you have to manually select where you want it.

Yes, exactly. And for some reason, my mom can't figure out how to change the program's default save location, or otherwise misses the point in a program's file saving process where you can manually select the save location. She knows she shouldn't blindly hit save, but she does it anyway, because it's too difficult to figure out how to do otherwise.

 

[Eso]

No, the solution is pretty simple. If you want to attach a file, you click on the attach button in mail, it brings up a list of apps with documents. You tap on the app and then the document you want.

First of all, the mail app on the iPad has no attach button.

Second of all, how would it know which documents are associated with the apps, if any. You don't want ALL of your apps to appear in a pop-up. There is also an issue with multiple apps that can manipulate the same files - DocumentsToGo and iWork apps, for example. Under which app would they appear, and how would the OS (and the user) keep track of which document belongs where?

It's still not that simple, however. Even if they are somehow organized by app, you'll still have a bunch of unrelated documents in one big list.

She does know what files and folders are, but apparently, programs keep saving them somewhere where she can't find them.

Part of the problem stems from the fact that on the desktop users can see the entire hard drive and programs have strange, unpredictable directories to save items. In addition, programs remember where you last saved a file so just when you save something in one program in a place you'll remember, another program default to saving somewhere else entirely.

The iPad could have simplified file storage by having only one place to store files, allowing users to create folders if they so desire.

File sharing apps are some of the most popular productivity apps in the app store - I don't think that suggests more people are comfortable with and want to manage their files than not.

 

[racer1441]

You've taken his "fact" and turned into a GROSS exaggeration. Congrats. You're even more ridiculous than the poster I was commenting on.

I find your uninformed opinions uninspired. Venture out and talk to the masses. You'll find people who barely have a grasp of technology everywhere. I'm surprised most of the people I come in contact with can run an elevator.

 

[sassenach74]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 3_1_3 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/528.18 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0 Mobile/7E18 Safari/528.16)

You've taken his "fact" and turned into a GROSS exaggeration. Congrats. You're even more ridiculous than the poster I was commenting on.

I find your uninformed opinions uninspired. Venture out and talk to the masses. You'll find people who barely have a grasp of technology everywhere. I'm surprised most of the people I come in contact with can run an elevator.

You're a bit rude tbh

 

[bobob]

You're a bit rude tbh

I hope you're referring to both of them...

 

[sassenach74]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 3_1_3 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/528.18 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0 Mobile/7E18 Safari/528.16)

Is there a way to edit the part you're quoting using an iPhone to reply? All I see is 'quote' button then a box to type in. Not sure if I've missed a step, sorry.

 

[Night Spring]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 3_1_3 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/528.18 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0 Mobile/7E18 Safari/528.16)

Is there a way to edit the part you're quoting using an iPhone to reply? All I see is 'quote' button then a box to type in. Not sure if I've missed a step, sorry.

Are you using the mobile site? If you are on the iPhone, you should be able to use the regular site, which would have the "edit" button.

 

[OneMike]

I got an Acer laptop the other day for the same price as the base iPad which has everything the iPad will have and more.

If I didn't have an iPhone I'd probably feel different about the iPad. In the end though currently it's just a big iPhone too me. No need for two of them.

When future revisions come out maybe I'll feel different.

When they first introduced the iPad I was hyped. The more I looked into it though, the more I came to the conclusion it was not worth it to me. I think it will still do good though

 

[racer1441]

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You're a bit rude tbh

Rudeness and honesty. Same coin, different sides.

 

[samcraig]

Rudeness and honesty. Same coin, different sides.

Over-exaggerations/generalizations and lies. Same coin, different sides, no?

 

[Chupa Chupa]

Rudeness and honesty. Same coin, different sides.

So rude people can't be honest? And liars can't be polite?

 

[admanimal]

First of all, the mail app on the iPad has no attach button.

Second of all, how would it know which documents are associated with the apps, if any. You don't want ALL of your apps to appear in a pop-up. There is also an issue with multiple apps that can manipulate the same files - DocumentsToGo and iWork apps, for example. Under which app would they appear, and how would the OS (and the user) keep track of which document belongs where?

I didn't say that they did do it the way I described; I was just offering a reasonable alternative to your assertion that a lack of normal file system would necessarily make everything so much more complicated.