Something to ask yourself about the iPad and it's feature set.......

[thejadedmonkey]

Really, I'd want it if it had 3 buttons.

• Home
  
• Exposé
  
• Dashboard

That would allow for multi-tasking with task switching through Exposé, Dashboard to make my iPad more useful for multi-asking (I love being able to check the weather or jot down a sticky note in any app) and of course a home button.

But as it stands now, it's useless to me.

 

[racer1441]

Over-exaggerations/generalizations and lies. Same coin, different sides, no?

Only to some.

The point still stands. Most technology is far beyond the average person.

 

[Carouser]

You think that browsing files cover-flow on a per app basis is a better solution? You want to flip through every word processing document you've created in Pages one by one till you find the one you want? No grouping by work files, personal files, school files by subject, or date created... just one big train of documents.

You want each app to manage only the files of that particular type? That's ridiculous. You would to have to launch Pages to attach a word processing document to an email, launch numbers to attach a spreadsheet, launch photos to attach a picture, and launch a PDF app to attach a PDF. You would have to launch a particular app just to do basic things like renaming or deleting a file.

It's entirely backwards from how desktop OS's evolved. File association emerged that allowed users to open a file and it would automatically launch the appropriate program. Now you want it so you must launch a particular app to manipulate the appropriate file - not even to edit it but just to delete or rename it?

Calm down. You keep saying "You actually want X, which is ridiculous?" when I never said anything of the kind. It's a false dichotomy to say either we have to manage files according to current desktop OS layouts OR we have to manage them according to your crazy inferences of what you think I'm saying.

I said I don't want to have to manage files, not that I don't want easy, structured access to my content. If the implementation for access to content is as bad as you imagine it could be, of course that's terrible. However, lists of recently used files, plus decent search functions, can make file management recede far into the background. If, at the announcement, they said 'hey you can also manage a sea of files on your iPad' I would have cringed. I just want to use the Internet and send mail.

Further to your point, but also the rest of the thread, if someone is in a situation where they feel they have to do all this file management, they shouldn't be buying an iPad. Get a desktop, laptop, or notebook. If you are in the situation to be processing large numbers of files and it's such a priority to be able to edit filenames and organize folders why on Earth would you buy an iPad and expect it to handle those things? It's like complaining that your smartphone can't be your primary location for your AutoCad work. I'm actually surprised at the inclusion of iWork - I figure it is more for on-the-go handling of a few files, like getting some spreadsheet or minor typing done while traveling, or what-have-you.

On a computer you can switch between applications with a mouse click. At a glance of the task/icon bar they can see any program is currently open. You really think saving states is comparable?

I think that Apple probably had good reasons for not including multitasking this time around and that the difference between how most users multitask and saving states is negligible. The alternative would have been an OS for the iPad alone (dumb for reasons I detailed earlier) or a new version of the iPhone OS which allows multitasking (and theories on the feasibility of this have been done to death in this forum).

 

[thejakill]

I find your uninformed opinions uninspired. Venture out and talk to the masses. You'll find people who barely have a grasp of technology everywhere. I'm surprised most of the people I come in contact with can run an elevator.

I keep pressing the button that says 1, because I'm the only person on the elevator, but the damn door keeps opening!

 

[Eso]

Besides, updating the OS shouldn't be device-specific - it's cross-platform (iPhone, iPod Touch, iPad); a 'hybrid' OS just for the iPad because the OP wanted 'a little differentiation' is nonsense (why would arbitrary differentiation be important to anybody?).

...The alternative would have been an OS for the iPad alone (dumb for reasons I detailed earlier) or a new version of the iPhone OS which allows multitasking (and theories on the feasibility of this have been done to death in this forum).

There's no reason the iPad shouldn't have it's own OS. In fact, it makes more sense than not. The iPad wasn't announced as a giant iPod Touch, it was announced as an entirely new product category:



It is supposed to fill the gap between smartphone and laptop. So why does it use the exact same OS as a smartphone? Watch the keynote. Jobs says that in order to fill the gap, it must be better at those things listed above than both a smartphone and laptop.

1.) Web Browsing - As people browse the internet, they invariably come across media they want to access in varied formats beyond the limited formats supported by the iPad (including flash, but I'll give the iPad a pass). They will browse pages or maps they want to print, and files they want to download. Since the iPad OS doesn't support any of that, how can it be better?

2.) Email - As people use email, they receive file attachments that they want to save, print, or edit and reattach to another email. It may be music that someone wants to share, an assignment they need to print for class, or a presentation they need to add their slides to and distribute back to the team. Since the iPad OS doesn't support any of that, how can it be better?

Solutions on a per app basis are insufficient. For example, there are some print apps, but they are completely separate from the email app, which is (usually) separate from the document editing app, which is separate from the web browsing app, which is separate from the file storage app. So, you can print from your email in a printing app (after you set up your email account again in the app), but you can't edit it. You'll have to use DocumentsToGo to edit an attachment (after setting up your email a third time), but now you can't print it. It's just a total mess.

As it stands, the only thing the iPad is better at than the smartphone and laptop is using it on a couch. That is, until they inevitably need some basic feature that comes along with web browsing and email, they are going to have to get up and use their laptop, defeating the whole purpose.

As I said, the iPhone OS was a good start, but they really should have added some features like print support, a USB slot, user-accessible file storage with a finder app, and multi-tasking to really create a useful category of product.

 

[admanimal]

I wouldn't bother harping on a lack of printing support so much. It's been all but confirmed that it will have a good solution for this, especially given the inclusion of iWork.

I also think the between-app document sharing and handling in general will be much improved over the usual iPhone setup. I have seen it in the SDK docs but can't explain in detail.

And we haven't even seen iPhone OS 4 yet.

 

[bossxii]

There's no reason the iPad shouldn't have it's own OS. In fact, it makes more sense than not. The iPad wasn't announced as a giant iPod Touch, it was announced as an entirely new product category:

View attachment 216590

It is supposed to fill the gap between smartphone and laptop. So why does it use the exact same OS as a smartphone? Watch the keynote. Jobs says that in order to fill the gap, it must be better at those things listed above than both a smartphone and laptop.

1.) Web Browsing - As people browse the internet, they invariably come across media they want to access in varied formats beyond the limited formats supported by the iPad (including flash, but I'll give the iPad a pass). They will browse pages or maps they want to print, and files they want to download. Since the iPad OS doesn't support any of that, how can it be better?

2.) Email - As people use email, they receive file attachments that they want to save, print, or edit and reattach to another email. It may be music that someone wants to share, an assignment they need to print for class, or a presentation they need to add their slides to and distribute back to the team. Since the iPad OS doesn't support any of that, how can it be better?

Solutions on a per app basis are insufficient. For example, there are some print apps, but they are completely separate from the email app, which is (usually) separate from the document editing app, which is separate from the web browsing app, which is separate from the file storage app. So, you can print from your email in a printing app (after you set up your email account again in the app), but you can't edit it. You'll have to use DocumentsToGo to edit an attachment (after setting up your email a third time), but now you can't print it. It's just a total mess.

As it stands, the only thing the iPad is better at than the smartphone and laptop is using it on a couch. That is, until they inevitably need some basic feature that comes along with web browsing and email, they are going to have to get up and use their laptop, defeating the whole purpose.

As I said, the iPhone OS was a good start, but they really should have added some features like print support, a USB slot, user-accessible file storage with a finder app, and multi-tasking to really create a useful category of product.

Execpt the simple fact that the iPhone OS has a user base of 75 million already familiar with it.

The fact that "most" of the app store will work day one, and every developer now familiar with the iPhone OS doesn't have start over for the iPad.

If that doesn't make sense to someone I guess I'm just glad those type of people aren't running Apple.

 

[admanimal]

Execpt the simple fact that the iPhone OS has a user base of 75 million already familiar with it.

The fact that "most" of the app store will work day one, and every developer now familiar with the iPhone OS doesn't have start over for the iPad.

If that doesn't make sense to someone I guess I'm just glad those type of people aren't running Apple.

It's also not like they built iPhone OS and then all of a sudden had the idea to make a tablet. More likely than not, the development of the tablet and iPhone OS had been going on simultaneously for a while. For all we know, iPhone OS could have essentially been iPad OS at first, until they decided to come out with a phone first.

 

[Bytor65]

There's no reason the iPad shouldn't have it's own OS. In fact, it makes more sense than not. The iPad wasn't announced as a giant iPod Touch, it was announced as an entirely new product category:

There are massive reasons to have a common OS, and no real reason to separate them.

Splitting the code base and creating two OS creates almost doubles your work, you need two programming teams now that you have made two products, you may end up splitting a good team to try to make two.

Maintenance issues finding bugs in each stream and propagating them between the products is problematic.

For the development community it is a huge win to have the same OS on each iPhone/iPad. Development can start with negligible learning curve and there will be no time wasting checking which feature work where.

You can argue that iPad needs more features, but considering that it has completely compatible hardware, it would be braindead to make yet another OS to do it. You simply add the features to the common OS, and create a simpler job for developers both inside and outside of Apple.

 

[Eso]

There are massive reasons to have a common OS, and no real reason to separate them.

Splitting the code base and creating two OS creates almost doubles your work...

Where do you get "splitting the code base and creating two OS" from taking the iPhone OS and adding features?

That's exactly what I said to do:

As I said, the iPhone OS was a good start, but they really should have added some features like...

 

[dave1812dave]

Only to some.

The point still stands. Most technology is far beyond the average person.

BS. Geek condescension is all that is.

 

[shakenmartini]

There are massive reasons to have a common OS, and no real reason to separate them.

Splitting the code base and creating two OS creates almost doubles your work, you need two programming teams now that you have made two products, you may end up splitting a good team to try to make two.

Maintenance issues finding bugs in each stream and propagating them between the products is problematic.

For the development community it is a huge win to have the same OS on each iPhone/iPad. Development can start with negligible learning curve and there will be no time wasting checking which feature work where.

You can argue that iPad needs more features, but considering that it has completely compatible hardware, it would be braindead to make yet another OS to do it. You simply add the features to the common OS, and create a simpler job for developers both inside and outside of Apple.

Actually, all apple OSX devices (MacOSX, iPhone OS, iTouch OS and now iPad OS) are all derived from the same base OS. They are the same.

Things that compile of Mac OSX compile for iPHone if they use the same API calls.

The only major difference in programming for the various OS versions is programming for the UI. But this is extremely simple if you have designed your Xcode project properly.

Since a lot of programming for these OS's is MVC you can seamlessly re-use a lot of your existing code and just re-program for the UI. It is surprisingly quick.

That being said, there are a few areas where iPhone OS is not fully mature compared to Mac OSX, but this gap is very quickly being closed. Garbage collection, GCD and a few other technologies are the biggies, but as the iPhone and iPad hardware advance, these technologies should mature in API's.

 

[Bytor65]

Actually, all apple OSX devices (MacOSX, iPhone OS, iTouch OS and now iPad OS) are all derived from the same base OS. They are the same.

Things that compile of Mac OSX compile for iPHone if they use the same API calls.

These share a common base and common APIs. A common base. But they have definitely forked and are two different OS projects now. Forking again would be a mistake.

 

[marksman]

While I do agree with you that my primary goal is to use content, if I know where the content is, I don't need to waste time searching.

In this day and age it is faster in most cases to search than it is to try and drill down through any sort of file system to find something specific, especially the more files you have.

I know where my stuff is too, but it is quicker for me to search for it and bring up what I want 99% of the time.

So at the end of the day, it really is not terribly relevant where it is kept any longer. Most people have never cared, and those that have cared have no reason to do so any longer, as drilling down a file structure is slower than a simple search on most devices.

I can bring up spotlight and find what I want before I get to the second level of file structure to start drilling down to what I need. So I don't want to waste time, that is why I use search.

I search on my computers, I search on my phone often times, I search through my mail. All things where I have stuff organized, yet searching is faster, so that is what I use.

Perhaps the problem comes in, in learning search engines. Every search engine is a bit different and you have to learn how to use them to the best effectiveness so you can find whatever you want when you need it. They way I query a google search is different than how I would look through my mail is different than how I would do a search of macrumors forums etc etc.

 

[shakenmartini]

These share a common base and common APIs. A common base. But they have definitely forked and are two different OS projects now. Forking again would be a mistake.

Why?

As long as API calls remain consistent as they are now, it extremely easy to port code.

Where ports become a problem is when there is inconsistent API behavior between two related platforms. Another problem can be significant issues in language inconsistency. Neither of these are a major problem for Apple.

If you design your project properly you can relatively easily make a core app and port it between the three platforms. It is even easier to port between iPad and iPhone. Again, the only biggie for iPhone apps is porting over the UI.

As I mentioned above, the only issue in porting is that advanced hardware features on Mac OSX are not yet available on iPhone.

 

[Bytor65]

In this day and age it is faster in most cases to search than it is to try and drill down through any sort of file system to find something specific, especially the more files you have.

I know where my stuff is too, but it is quicker for me to search for it and bring up what I want 99% of the time.

And application centric can make a lot of sense even in full fledged OS's.

I have 3 HDs with Media files spread across them. I use XMBC to watch videos, it aggregates and sorts everything for me. I never go looking in the file system to play a media file.

On a device like an iPad, maybe they can expand the application centric nature.

Ideally they would have a root access or something for file system access for those who really want it, but leave it application centric for those who would have an easier time without it.

It will be interesting to see what OS 4.0 has in store, but I don't think it will come close to assuaging those who want a more desktop experience.

 

[Night Spring]

In this day and age it is faster in most cases to search than it is to try and drill down through any sort of file system to find something specific, especially the more files you have.

But in order to search for a file, you have to remember its name (or at least a part of it). Personally, I find it faster to drill down folder structures than to try to remember what the file I'm searching for is called. Also, by drilling down the folders, I don't have to wait for the search results to come up. I don't know how fast Spotlight on OSX is, but on Windows systems search can take quite a while. The only time I use search on my computer is when I'm searching for files across several folders.

Oh, and a thought just occured to me, maybe drilling down file folders is a lot faster on Windows than on OSX? I just arrow down to the folder I want, press enter, arrow down, enter, arrow down, enter... It's very quick and I can do it with just one hand on the keyboard, no mouse involved.

Perhaps the problem comes in, in learning search engines. Every search engine is a bit different and you have to learn how to use them to the best effectiveness so you can find whatever you want when you need it. They way I query a google search is different than how I would look through my mail is different than how I would do a search of macrumors forums etc etc.

Yup, that definitely is a problem. For internet and forum search engines, I have no choice other than to try and learn the search system, but by using my computer's file search system as little as possible, it's one less search system I have to learn.

That said, I'm not advocating a desktop like file system for the iPad. At this point, I'm just in a "wait-and-see" mode as far as the iPad is concerned. What makes sense in a desktop environment won't necessarily make sense in a multitouch system, so I'm willing to try whatever Apple has come up with, and hope it works out for me.

 

[znewton]

I intend to use a 64GB + 3G model as my primary computer on Day 1. It will not be a companion device. It will be my "computer." I'll retain my existing household iMac to serve as a central media hub to store and sync (and update the OS until Apple allows that on the iPad itself...) and completely retire my MBP (and Kindle2 and Hackintosh Dell Mini9).

If such a set up does not meet your needs, that's fine. But why the beef with those for whom such a set up is entirely suitable?

I was just curious as what to what your computing needs are and how you came to the conclusion of retiring your MBP in favor of the iPad. I agree with you in having no beef for those who are choosing to do what you're doing--I'm just curious as I use a 13" (current version) MBP as my primary computer and have been a mac user for over ten years now (since I was about twelve years old). My primary uses for the computer are internet browsing, e-mail, various forums that I am on, along with using it for college. I take it to the majority of my classes and take notes during class and also use it to write papers, do projects, and power points etc.

I definitely plan on getting an iPad once it is released. I am still not sure yet whether I am going to get the 3G version or not though. I'm leaning towards paying the extra $130 for the 3G and since it's month to month if I need 3G that month I can go ahead and pay for it and if I don't the next I am not required to continue paying.

Back to my point though--I just can't imagine retiring my MBP and using the iPad as my main computer. I plan on buying the iPad as a companion to my MBP. It's going to be great to not have to use my laptop when I simply want to browse the web, check e-mail, listen to music etc. It' much more simple and easier on the iPad for the basic stuff that I do. Even if I bought the keyboard doc for the iPad I just find it hard to imagine not having my laptop though. When it comes to things such as writing papers and typing documents that are longer than a brief e-mail or a few paragraphs I definitely prefer to have a full keyboard (I can also type 120+WPM so a keyboard is very useful).

So that's my plan for the iPad but I'd like to hear why you will be able to stick with just the iPad for most of your computing needs.

 

[Jarrod716]

Applications running on iPad devices have access to enhanced support for handling and managing documents and files. The purpose of this support is to make it easier for applications to work with files behind the scenes. When an application encounters a file of an unknown type, it can ask the system for help in displaying that file’s contents or finding an application that can display them. If your application is able to display certain file formats, you can also register with the system as an application capable of displaying that file.

 

[RazHyena]

Further to your point, but also the rest of the thread, if someone is in a situation where they feel they have to do all this file management, they shouldn't be buying an iPad. Get a desktop, laptop, or notebook. If you are in the situation to be processing large numbers of files and it's such a priority to be able to edit filenames and organize folders why on Earth would you buy an iPad and expect it to handle those things? It's like complaining that your smartphone can't be your primary location for your AutoCad work. I'm actually surprised at the inclusion of iWork - I figure it is more for on-the-go handling of a few files, like getting some spreadsheet or minor typing done while traveling, or what-have-you.

Fail.

Hoping for a tablet that had.....at the very least, a real OS and file system isn't exactly an over-the-top expectation. It's extremely modest, and acting all defensive when you see people complaining about Apple delivering what is essentially nothing more than an oversized iPod Touch is ridiculous.

they shouldn't be buying an iPad. Get a desktop, laptop, or notebook.

Right....because tablets are simply incapable of, as you put it, "processing large numbers of files." Hilarious.

 

[Night Spring]

Back to my point though--I just can't imagine retiring my MBP and using the iPad as my main computer. I plan on buying the iPad as a companion to my MBP. It's going to be great to not have to use my laptop when I simply want to browse the web, check e-mail, listen to music etc. It' much more simple and easier on the iPad for the basic stuff that I do. Even if I bought the keyboard doc for the iPad I just find it hard to imagine not having my laptop though. When it comes to things such as writing papers and typing documents that are longer than a brief e-mail or a few paragraphs I definitely prefer to have a full keyboard (I can also type 120+WPM so a keyboard is very useful).

I think you just answered your own question. Someone whose computer usage is similar to yours, with the exception that they don't need to produce lengthy documents, could conceivably get by with the iPad as their main computer.

 

[BaldiMac]

Fail.

Hoping for a tablet that had.....at the very least, a real OS and file system isn't exactly an over-the-top expectation. It's extremely modest,

It has a real OS and file system.

and acting all defensive when you see people complaining about Apple delivering what is essentially nothing more than an oversized iPod Touch is ridiculous.

And the mantra continues.

 

[gr8ful]

There's no reason the iPad shouldn't have it's own OS. In fact, it makes more sense than not. The iPad wasn't announced as a giant iPod Touch, it was announced as an entirely new product category:

Isn't the OS that is running on the iPhone (iPhone OS) actually the same OS that was developed for something called the Safari Pad? So, why would the iPad need its own OS? The iPhone OS is OS that Apple developed for its tablet project and they adapted it to run on a smaller screen in order to get into the phone market.

Some of you don't understand how much of a nightmare it is trying to maintain multiple code bases. Apple did the smart thing in leveraging Mac OS X across multiple platforms. They have different presentation layers but the core of the OS is the same for the Mac, iPhone, and now iPad. As time goes on you will see more differentiation in the iPad and iPhone because of the screen size and Apple marketing the iPad as a productivity device (iWork). Remember, this is version 1.0 of the iPad and a very good start in my estimation.

 

[RazHyena]

It has a real OS and file system.



And the mantra continues.

In other news, some people don't know what a full OS is.

Oh, and it's not mantra. Just reality. An attachable keyboard and $10 "word processing" apps don't change that.

 

[admanimal]

In other news, some people don't know what a full OS is.

The iPad does not have a normal desktop OS, which is probably what you're referring to as a "full OS." Of course it would make no sense for it to have a desktop OS, given that it's nothing like a desktop computer. Otherwise, iPhone OS is almost identical to desktop OS X, except for having a GUI layer that is designed for touch screen devices.