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leons

macrumors 6502a
Apr 22, 2009
662
344
just a quick question of a casual guy.. Why do some people have 20+ tabs open? I feel uncomfortable if I have 3 or 4 Tabs open
There can be several reasons, but in my case, I have my work and research organized into several "buckets" each, with the tabs for those buckets together on one cohesive page of tabs, with one page for each area/subject always available for ease of access.
 

leons

macrumors 6502a
Apr 22, 2009
662
344
It's not that the cause is not known here ... Quite a lot you can understand from the existing diagnostics (Activity Monitor, vm_stat, smartmontools...).

Specifically, Big Sure 11.0.x-11.2.x exposed irrational swapping behavior right after the reboot, when kernel_task was writing ca. 1TB / day or so even when there were 3-4Gb RAM free and memory pressure level around 25%. The only possibility here is that OS swapped out memory pages to disk when it's not needed, and likely with a 5-10 multiplier, i.e. swapping algorithm didn't work properly.

11.3 introduced more improvements: fixed swap use right after the startup (it's 0 for a much longer time), but the issue resurface after the swap use reach ca. 5Gb., so I was getting few hundreds Gbs written per day.

11.4beta1 works best for me so far. Apple tweaked the algorithm to suppress the swap activity, and average memory pressure is around 50% instead of 25% before, with moderate swapping activity (few tenth Gb/day).

Use case matters in a sense that certain activity (browsing with a lot of tabs) may provoke VM thrashing and random excessive swapping faster than other less memory-intensive workloads. But OS issue is always there, and processes are not culprits.
Are you still seeing good results on 11.4?
 

thenewperson

macrumors 6502a
Mar 27, 2011
992
912
just a quick question of a casual guy.. Why do some people have 20+ tabs open? I feel uncomfortable if I have 3 or 4 Tabs open
Because some of us need to delude ourselves that we'll get to them later. Also I've switched from saving to Pocket/Instapaper to saving to Bookmarks to just keeping them in tabs so I'm just waiting for the next thing.
 

vcsyc

macrumors newbie
Feb 25, 2021
23
3
AFAIK Safari doesn’t have tab discarding settings, and the one tab suspender that exists for safari doesn’t function too well either because the extension isn’t too great or because of restrictions Apple sets when developing safari extensions.

When I was testing out ‘Tab Suspender’ on safari it seemed to only decrease the memory usage by 10-20% when tabs were suspended so, even if helpful, given a large enough amount of tabs the issue could still persist.

Safari also does other things like writing closed tabs or even websites you leave when you go to a new website to Safari Web Content (Cached) which may be writing to your SSD in certain situations.

That’s why if you’re having problematic writes I definitely recommend the first step being atleast trying one of the browsers I mentioned with Auto Tab Discard to atleast see if Safari is a culprit or not. Then having that knowledge you can always make the decision whether you’d rather go back to safari anyway.
yes I totally agree with you. however I think that tab suspender for safari decreases memory usage by 50%, because when it suspends the tab it just saves screenshot. opened tabs, and closed tabs (safari web content - cached) are 120-250-350MB depending on web you're viewing and in my experience, when you use tab suspender - suspended tabs max out at 80mb each.

moving to EDGE or FIREFOX or CHROME is a better option for sure, but I can't leave without Keychain ) I could not find any other alternative for it - which is implemented well on MacOS and iOS. That's the reason im sticking with safari.
 

leman

macrumors Core
Oct 14, 2008
19,521
19,678
just a quick question of a casual guy.. Why do some people have 20+ tabs open? I feel uncomfortable if I have 3 or 4 Tabs open

I have around 50-80 tabs open usually. Happens quickly if you are doing research. Let’s say I’m looking for information on a technical topic. Usually I’d open 10-20 links to compare sources.
 

Maximara

macrumors 68000
Jun 16, 2008
1,707
908
yes I totally agree with you. however I think that tab suspender for safari decreases memory usage by 50%, because when it suspends the tab it just saves screenshot. opened tabs, and closed tabs (safari web content - cached) are 120-250-350MB depending on web you're viewing and in my experience, when you use tab suspender - suspended tabs max out at 80mb each.

moving to EDGE or FIREFOX or CHROME is a better option for sure, but I can't leave without Keychain ) I could not find any other alternative for it - which is implemented well on MacOS and iOS. That's the reason im sticking with safari.
There is the option of 1Password or its opensource counterpart KeePassXC. Avoids the whole Keychain problem.
 

xxBlack

macrumors 6502a
Jan 7, 2020
649
944
thanks guys. I have the 8 gb ram m1 mbp and I always use 1-2 GB of swap. Am I right that this is nothing to worry about?
 

Thistle41

macrumors member
Mar 25, 2021
74
39
UK
Update:

Now on 11.3 since 30/4/21, 13.67GB/day average use up to today. 21.0 TBW, 8.3 months old. Much better than before.

As an aside, on Activity monitor, the Bytes Written value goes down as well as up? A bit like shares I guess. The first time I looked 1 hr back it was 77.97 now it is 77.68. (No TM activity since March.) Strange but true.

MBA 8/256
 

TheSynchronizer

macrumors 6502
Dec 2, 2014
443
729
yes I totally agree with you. however I think that tab suspender for safari decreases memory usage by 50%, because when it suspends the tab it just saves screenshot. opened tabs, and closed tabs (safari web content - cached) are 120-250-350MB depending on web you're viewing and in my experience, when you use tab suspender - suspended tabs max out at 80mb each.

moving to EDGE or FIREFOX or CHROME is a better option for sure, but I can't leave without Keychain ) I could not find any other alternative for it - which is implemented well on MacOS and iOS. That's the reason im sticking with safari.
It’s possible that the developer has updated the extension since the last time I used it, as I used it fairly early in the M1 days and it might’ve not been fully optimised with Big Sur yet. Glad to hear it’s working better and I agree, if you need to use Safari e.g. keychain then safari with it’s tab suspender extension is the best way.
 

leons

macrumors 6502a
Apr 22, 2009
662
344
There is the option of 1Password or its opensource counterpart KeePassXC. Avoids the whole Keychain problem.
I'm using Bitwarden with Brave (but it works with other browsers as well). It is free and very good.
 

vcsyc

macrumors newbie
Feb 25, 2021
23
3
There is the option of 1Password or its opensource counterpart KeePassXC. Avoids the whole Keychain problem.
can you confirm if the autofill works on macOS Edge, iOS Edhe, and in-app for Mac and iOS..
when I tried it last time, there was that extra one click required to make it work. to suggest a password, to autofill and etc.
 
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vcsyc

macrumors newbie
Feb 25, 2021
23
3
fingers crossed )
 

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leons

macrumors 6502a
Apr 22, 2009
662
344
can you confirm if the autofill works on macOS Edge, iOS Edhe, and in-app for Mac and iOS..
when I tried it last time, there was that extra one click required to make it work. to suggest a password, to autofill and etc.
You'll have to wait for Maximara to weigh in on that, but I personally wouldn't trade one less click for writing 1TB to my SSD every 3 days.
 
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xxBlack

macrumors 6502a
Jan 7, 2020
649
944
Is this normal after 1 week? Just curious.
 

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Fomalhaut

macrumors 68000
Oct 6, 2020
1,993
1,724
just a quick question of a casual guy.. Why do some people have 20+ tabs open? I feel uncomfortable if I have 3 or 4 Tabs open
It's a workflow efficiency thing.

If you use web-apps for productivity software, documentation references or need to refer to lots of different pages to research a topic, then it's easier to have everything open and easily to-hand for when you need it. Otherwise you would spend a lot of time closing and re-opening pages. I need at least 30 tabs open for my work, and often have 50-80.

You do need to review and tidy-up at last once a day though to avoid it getting unmanageable.

A big plus of non-Safari browsers is the ability to suspend tabs so that they use minimal memory, but are quickly available. I would even be OK with tabs auto-closing after a defined time, unless marked as "persistent".
 

sneeks

macrumors 65816
Oct 21, 2007
1,017
390
Glasgow, UK
79B7A9A1-2536-4FF8-9C0E-C7070FEBC0F6.jpeg


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66860DC3-B941-4B7B-82C8-278740531313.jpg




My refurbished Mac Mini 8/256 arrived a few days ago, should I be concerned at the data units written or is this normal? It’s not had a huge amount of use by me since it arrived.
 
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nobackup

macrumors regular
Apr 19, 2008
200
40
Nothing to worry about there.
Wow 101 pages. And no one has even speculated in the difference between Gray and silver case or if plugged in with mains at 230/110 59/60hz But every other speculation is present, I’m sure we will reach 2000 pages

but at the end of the day there is nothing that any one here can do. And guess what it does not even matter as even the highest read writes still means that the SSD will last longer than the average ownership period or the useful life of the built in battery.
 

sneeks

macrumors 65816
Oct 21, 2007
1,017
390
Glasgow, UK
Nothing to worry about there.
Thanks. With this being a refurbished Mac I’m not sure if some of that 3.5TB written is from before I owned it. Just thought it seemed high for the limited use I’ve had of it so far.
I considered buying Apple Care but AFAIK it’s not really required here and would only really cover accidental damage, consumer laws in Scotland cover me for 5 years anyway for any other faults. Apple reminded me of this when I looked to purchase the additional cover.
 
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Maximara

macrumors 68000
Jun 16, 2008
1,707
908
It's a workflow efficiency thing.
I have seen that stated before but when I have to do a mass edit of the wiki I am a sysop for and have more than 15 tabs open I can only see the icons so I don't understand how that can help the workflow if you constantly keep them open (my process is - make the changes, close the tab, and go to the next in the list)

Unless one has perfect memory or a way to sort through the tabs I can't see how doing this is efficient.
 
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leons

macrumors 6502a
Apr 22, 2009
662
344
I have seen that stated before but when I have to do a mass edit of the wiki I am a sysop for and have more than 15 tabs open I can only see the icons so I don't understand how that can help the workflow if you constantly keep them open (my process is - make the changes, close the tab, and go to the next in the list)

Unless one has perfect memory or a way to sort through the tabs I can't see how doing this is efficient.
To each his own! :)
 
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