ssd swap - high usage of Terabytes Written

[Ektachrome]

Not sure if I'm understanding your question, but yes I'm using an external thunderbolt drive as boot drive and the internal drive had barely any writes since then (smartctl is halting at 9.15TB written but shows about 2k in data units written since 5 days).

// Beware, you can't lower security settings on an external drive, so some drivers can't be installed. In my case my audio interface doesn't work with an external boot drive.

Yes, I think you understood what I was clumsily trying to ask, judging by your response!

So I think this might be a solution for me until the Lightroom issues are fixed.

A couple more questions, if I may?

- Do you have to disable FileVault to use an external SSD boot drive?
- Have you noticed any difference in performance running this way vs internal SSD?
- Do you just mean drivers for specific external interfaces can't be installed? Is there a list anywhere of what works and what doesn't?

Thanks!

 

[Mr Screech]

Yes, I think you understood what I was clumsily trying to ask, judging by your response!

So I think this might be a solution for me until the Lightroom issues are fixed.

A couple more questions, if I may?

- Do you have to disable FileVault to use an external SSD boot drive?
- Have you noticed any difference in performance running this way vs internal SSD?
- Do you just mean drivers for specific external interfaces can't be installed? Is there a list anywhere of what works and what doesn't?

Thanks!

Filevault was turned on for the internal drive, when installing on the external disk. (99% sure about that, might have been off...)

No difference in performance as of yet, I'm getting about 2500MB/s read write performance on the external. Everything runs as smooth as with the internal disk as far as I know.

Yes, steinberg needs the reduced security to install it's drivers correctly. Not sure what other drivers need the reduced security setting.

Fwiw, I do have some smaller issues. Some apps won't autostart, even when I checked it in the preferences and added them in the login items list. No idea if this is related to having an external boot volume though. Not a big issue to me since I barely ever reboot my system.

 

[Ektachrome]

Filevault was turned on for the internal drive, when installing on the external disk. (99% sure about that, might have been off...)

No difference in performance as of yet, I'm getting about 2500MB/s read write performance on the external. Everything runs as smooth as with the internal disk as far as I know.

Yes, steinberg needs the reduced security to install it's drivers correctly. Not sure what other drivers need the reduced security setting.

Fwiw, I do have some smaller issues. Some apps won't autostart, even when I checked it in the preferences and added them in the login items list. No idea if this is related to having an external boot volume though. Not a big issue to me since I barely ever reboot my system.

Thanks, very helpful.

So is FileVault enabled on the external boot drive??

I don't need most apps to autostart reboot (in fact I usually end up having to go and manually disable most of them), so that's probably not an issue for me.

I'll have a google and see if anything I use might need drivers with reduced security settings.

 

[leons]

So I think it'll happen. Just deciding whether to get a MM or a MBP13. But I might get a MM now and then upgrade my MBP15 to a 14 when the M1 14s appear...

All first world problems!

First-world problems, true! We're ALL lucky if this is the biggest problem we have.
Whatever you eventually decide (or not), we'll all be here to help when/if needed.

 

[pibefision]

I guess after checking this thread daily for the past 1 month+....I finally decide Im gonna get it anyway. Reasons:

-I am in need of a laptop and I have had enough postponing my purchase, checking this thread daily, while Apple remains 100% silent.
-No one is absolutely sure if this is an issue, or just a reporting issue like DriveDx, or maybe a real problem indeed. No one is sure. This thread is pretty much 70 pages of speculations and experiments, nothing official nor confirmed.
-This is likely a software issue so apple should be able to release a software update or so.
-Cant waste time always worrying. I mean if the issue is real and proven, sure, it would be dumb of me to go ahead and buy this. But the thing is, it is not (see point 2).
-My usage is most of the time going to be Office and web browsing.
-If something happens, then so be it and I will face it. Wasting time worrying is far worse.

Opinions/feedback?

My opinion.

This is a list of reasons too buy it and to convice yourself that the problem does not exist.

In true, the problem exist. It is the first time we have a motherboard with an SSD soldered and nobody knows the lifetime.

Good luck is the correct phrase for this problem.

 

[Ektachrome]

First-world problems, true! We're ALL lucky if this is the biggest problem we have.
Whatever you eventually decide (or not), we'll all be here to help when/if needed.

This exactly - mainly I'm still worrying about how to survive, literally and career-wise, through the pandemic, as I'm sure many are, if not much worse.

Thanks! Very helpful community here, wish I'd used it more sooner - although OTOH it shows how generally great Macs are in that I've been using them over 20 years every day and had so few issues I've never needed to hop on forums before.

 

[Mr Screech]

Thanks, very helpful.

So is FileVault enabled on the external boot drive??

I don't need most apps to autostart reboot (in fact I usually end up having to go and manually disable most of them), so that's probably not an issue for me.

I'll have a google and see if anything I use might need drivers with reduced security settings.

I have filevault off on the external drive. I read on this forum the drive becomes unbootable once you enable it, so haven't tried.

 

[leons]

My opinion.

This is a list of reasons too buy it and to convice yourself that the problem does not exist.

In true, the problem exist. It is the first time we have a motherboard with an SSD soldered and nobody knows the lifetime.

Good luck is the correct phrase for this problem.

In the unlikely event that these SSDs have some disease that has never been seen before, and it is a problem that can't be fixed with a software patch(s), it will be known far before the warranty is over. It would be expensive for them, but Apple would make it good. However, it is far more than likely that Apple utilized SSDs that are least marginally better than the industry average. SSD's in general are very mature in the tech product lifecycle, and are now a commodity item with few issues. But, even if these SSD's are only going to live until their normal predicted life, they will survive well past many other components in the system. Based on my daily usage (after a few adjustments in this thread), my SSD might even outlast me! (time to check my own warranty)!

 

[Maximara]

In true, the problem exist. It is the first time we have a motherboard with an SSD soldered and nobody knows the lifetime.

Untrue. Apple has soldered SSDs on the motherboard for years (since 2016 at least). Since aside from a bank doing something totally silly with their M1 Mac (using it for a high data transfer) we had not heard a single report of an SSD failure on a Mac. At 6 years we should have heard something on the earlier Intel machines if soldered SSDs were an issue.

 

[telo123]

In true, the problem exist. It is the first time we have a motherboard with an SSD soldered and nobody knows the lifetime.

Good luck is the correct phrase for this problem.

Untrue. Apple has soldered SSDs on the motherboard for years (since 2016 at least). Since aside from a bank doing something totally silly with their M1 Mac (using it for a high data transfer) we had not heard a single report of an SSD failure on a Mac. At 6 years we should have heard something on the earlier Intel machines if soldered SSDs were an issue.

Agreed. Some people are reacting to it as if it were groundbreaking earth-shattering news when the M1's were announced. They have soldered their ssds since the 2016 rMBP. Soldered SSDs are not exclusive to Apple either. Microsoft did so with their Surface Laptops in 2017. Dell did so as well. Apple can technically be blamed as I believed they were the first or one of the first to do so in mainstream consumer laptops. And just like how companies followed Apple when they removed the headphone jack on the iPhone, most companies soon followed this direction.

They are more reliable than socketable SSDs, there is no doubt about that.

 

[Ektachrome]

I have filevault off on the external drive. I read on this forum the drive becomes unbootable once you enable it, so haven't tried.

Thanks. I'll try to find out a little more. FileVault is a very valuable security feature on the boot disk, and especially on an external drive.

 

[wirtandi]

This is a list of reasons too buy it and to convice yourself that the problem does not exist.

In true, the problem exist.

Convince myself the problem does not exist? Where did I say that? Read my 2nd point. Nothing about this issue is confirmed. Everyone is confused and speculating, all because Apple is silent. So it MAY be a problem or it MAY NOT be a problem.

Again, if this is 100% proven to be an issue and I go ahead and buy it, then that is very dumb of me. But the thing is, it is not proven. Plus, this whole thing affects a small group of users.

All the knowledgeable tech people on youtube (not the clickbait ones) explain this thing with no bias, and they all say it is nothing to worry about.

I try to see this issue from all perspectives. There is no need for me to "convince myself". I am just stating facts.

I am buying this laptop knowing full well that there MAY or MAY NOT be a problem. And as I said, if there is a problem, I will just face it.

What about you? Can you prove this is a real problem?

 

[Fomalhaut]

My opinion.

This is a list of reasons too buy it and to convice yourself that the problem does not exist.

In true, the problem exist. It is the first time we have a motherboard with an SSD soldered and nobody knows the lifetime.

Good luck is the correct phrase for this problem.

I'm pretty sure that SSDs in at least some Macs have been soldered from 2015, possibly earlier. https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/201...t-do-much-to-fix-or-upgrade-the-2015-macbook/

Soldered components are generally more reliable than socketed ones, and may have slight performance advantages.

 

[Chancha]

I'm pretty sure that SSDs in at least some Macs have been soldered from 2015, possibly earlier. https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/201...t-do-much-to-fix-or-upgrade-the-2015-macbook/

Soldered components are generally more reliable than socketed ones, and may have slight performance advantages.

Soldered-on-board SSD NAND chips have been done since 2012 retina MBP (sorry I mixed up with RAM, the first should be 2016 Touch Bar), so almost a decade by now. You see we rarely if ever see SSD failure reports of people's machine, at least usually not before any other component like screen or KB. However, macOS didn't suffer the seemingly alarming rate of disk writes until recently. I agree that if the wear rate issue is real, then the SSD being unreplaceably soldered is a compounded issue, but soldering itself is not a problem per se.

EDIT:
sorry I mixed up with RAM, the first soldered SSD should be on the 2016 Touch Bar 13" / 15"

 

[kubilaydem]

Which browser is best for ssd health?

Safari, chrome, firefox, edge?

 

[Ejaculator]

Which browser is best for ssd health?

Safari, chrome, firefox, edge?

Safari or Firefox with caches disabled in about:config

 

[kubilaydem]

Safari or Firefox with caches disabled in about:config

How to disable cache?

 

[brisk84]

Which browser is best for ssd health?

Safari, chrome, firefox, edge?

Safari, ofcourse

 

[Chancha]

Safari, ofcourse

Without cache then wouldn't a webpage's assets need to be loaded to RAM every refresh, which in turn can cause extra swapping if many pages are opened concurrently?

 

[Tenkaykev]

I've had my base M1 air since early December. It is in use for several hours each day, mainly web browsing, a bit of Open Office, plus the usual YouTube and a bit of light photo editing. My usage shows a little under 2.8 TB written.
One YouTube channel which has a well reasoned and calm discussion of the M1 SSD is " Constant Geekery " It's so much better than the bulk of click bait, shouty, !!!!! videos that are out there. Well worth a visit even if you don't necessarily agree with the findings.

 

[ltdan166]

My Air M1 16/256 is one month old today with 1.05TB of data unit written: I'm using Edge, MS Office, a bunch of chat apps, Miro and Notion for writing, every day as my main driver.
So according to the 150TB threshold, this should last me 150 months.
So I'm assuming that as a "normal" user shouldn't be worried much about this?

 

[Spudlicious]

My Air M1 16/256 is one month old today with 1.05TB of data unit written: I'm using Edge, MS Office, a bunch of chat apps, Miro and Notion for writing, every day as my main driver.
So according to the 150TB threshold, this should last me 150 months.
So I'm assuming that as a "normal" user shouldn't be worried much about this?

You should not worry at all about your SSD life on the basis of those figures. I don't know where that 150TB threshold comes from or what it means, but Sabrent Rocket 256GB SSDs (for example) are quoted as having an endurance of 380TBW. SOURCE
Accepting that anything can fail at any time, and that Apple don't use identical technology, you can be as confident as I am (1.01TBW since January 5th) of long life from your M1 Air. It cannot be reasonably disputed that some people appear to have an issue with high SSD write numbers, but I don't know if you and I are more typical of M1 buyers. I hope so.

 

[pshufd]

You should not worry at all about your SSD life on the basis of those figures. I don't know where that 150TB threshold comes from or what it means, but Sabrent Rocket 256GB SSDs (for example) are quoted as having an endurance of 380TBW. SOURCE
Accepting that anything can fail at any time, and that Apple don't use identical technology, you can be as confident as I am (1.01TBW since January 5th) of long life from your M1 Air. It cannot be reasonably disputed that some people appear to have an issue with high SSD write numbers, but I don't know if you and I are more typical of M1 buyers. I hope so.

Wouldn't the size of the SSD figure into this equation?

 

[Spudlicious]

Wouldn't the size of the SSD figure into this equation?

Yes. That source gives a 3115TBW endurance figure for the 4TB version of the Sabrent Rocket SSD.

 

[Ektachrome]

Soldered-on-board SSD NAND chips have been done since 2012 retina MBP (sorry I mixed up with RAM, the first should be 2016 Touch Bar), so almost a decade by now. You see we rarely if ever see SSD failure reports of people's machine, at least usually not before any other component like screen or KB. However, macOS didn't suffer the seemingly alarming rate of disk writes until recently. I agree that if the wear rate issue is real, then the SSD being unreplaceably soldered is a compounded issue, but soldering itself is not a problem per se.

Exactly this. Soldering per-se not problematic... until you have an issue like this with extraordinary disk writes.

To be honest, I thought that's what this whole thread was about? If burning through the SSD isn't considered a problem, why did the thread exist to begin with...?