Really? We do not need such "simplicity".
And it hurts who? App Store still has star rating as usual, not a simple "love". Why there are should be any difference?
Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Star Ratings - workarounds or time to move on?
- Thread starter ggarnold
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
And it hurts who? App Store still has star rating as usual, not a simple "love". Why there are should be any difference?
Guys, don't just give up. Send Feedback regarding the Star Rating absence.
Can you explain why you need the Star rating for your music?
Can you explain why Love/Dislike is not enough to drive the automated things such as Genius? (hint: it is)
1 star is tracks I DJ with, 5 star is my favourite tracks, 4 star is tracks I like (but not love), 2 star are tracks for my young son (great in the car).
I sent feedback through multiple portals. We'll see. I also wrote to "The Next Track," a podcast co-hosted by Doug of Dougscripts to see if they have any insight. We'll see. If you PM me I have an email address you can also try.
I have 31,000 songs in my library. I rely on smart playlists to help manage my iPhone, which can't contain them all. One main way to do that is that I sync all my five star songs (ones I love) and many of my four star songs (ones I like) plus a smaller mix of three star songs (ones that are okay but I have friends who really like so are handy to have easy access). As to one and two star songs? Sometimes you buy a stinker. I don't sync them but I don't delete the files in case I forget I ever bought it; keeps me from buying it again).
Now, you may say that that's cumbersome or not necessary but keep in mind that many users have incrementally invested a lot of time in systems that work for them. In my case simply removing the star rating feature will mean suddenly having to do a *lot* of work (maybe using tags or grouping) but until that's done syncing and backing up may be inadvisable. Unless there's a very good reason to wipe out this feature it seems deeply consumer unfriendly to part of their customer base.
That's pretty dismissive.
(Hint: for you it is and that's fine, but you are not everyone.)
So far this is type of response I've seen...nothing really of value, just "I spent a lot of time doing this" which no one told you to do, so for that reason alone you want the feature to stick around.
And the point about driving automation stands. You don't need 1 to 5 star rating system to drive/inform the quality of Genius (which is the only ACTUAL functionality the Star Rating system has ever had). Like/Dislike covers that with the same degree quality and accuracy as it ever did.
At the end of the day, no one really has 5 star or 4 star or 3 star or 2 star or 1 star opinions on music. You either like the song, or you don't.
So while I do sympathize with those who spent a ridiculous amount of time meticulously rating 30,000 songs for the sake of....sorting? I have to agree with the decision to abandon the feature in favor of much simple Like/Dislike.
You've kind of missed an interesting point in your own signature
As if that should only apply to users, not Apple.
The point isn't the amount of time put into it. In my case it was a minute or two here or there... over a decade. The real requirement would be all the work that would now have to be done by Apple "turning off useful features". You see, not all of us are binary in our like/dislike of music. We're burdened with nuance.
No need to reply to this post. I can see you've made up your mind what others find useful. Strange you should ask others only to dismiss them. So be it.
As if that should only apply to users, not Apple.
The point isn't the amount of time put into it. In my case it was a minute or two here or there... over a decade. The real requirement would be all the work that would now have to be done by Apple "turning off useful features". You see, not all of us are binary in our like/dislike of music. We're burdened with nuance.
No need to reply to this post. I can see you've made up your mind what others find useful. Strange you should ask others only to dismiss them. So be it.
Then can you explain why our world is not binary world, only absolute right or wrong?
Plus, why I cannot express "how much" I love a song, or how much I "don't like" this song?
You can, but for that form of expression to be a digital feature, there ought to be a functional purpose behind it. As I said before, the only functional purpose the star ratings have ever had was driving the Genius feature, but under the hood it was a rudimentary + or - informant for Genius, which is the same as the Like/Dislike feature.
Why you believe "the only functional purpose the star ratings have ever had was driving the Genius feature"? Proof?
Plus, Genius feature uses music file itself, rather than rating, to mix up a bunch of songs together as a single playlist.
Never thought I would see someone argue against the star rating feature, because, you know, you don't have to use it. Star Ratings (in addition to Love/Dislike) is useful in crafting playlists sorted by level of like or dislike. Star Ratings were never solely used for Genius features; contrary to arguments here. Some people actually like granular control and not relying on algorithms all the time.
My guess is that they didn't think to, or were not able to, include star ratings when they re-wrote the UI and that they will come in a later update.
My guess is that they didn't think to, or were not able to, include star ratings when they re-wrote the UI and that they will come in a later update.
On an album you can have the songs that are your favorite, the songs you like, and the songs you don't like.
Love and Dislike is great for the Apple Music service because it makes sure that more of what you like is being recommended and nothing that you don't isn't.
But if you have a 10,000+ track local library, a yes or no isn't going to work well as a smart playlist criteria like the star rating does. Some people are using 6-9 playlists broken by star to begin with.
Love and Dislike is great for the Apple Music service because it makes sure that more of what you like is being recommended and nothing that you don't isn't.
But if you have a 10,000+ track local library, a yes or no isn't going to work well as a smart playlist criteria like the star rating does. Some people are using 6-9 playlists broken by star to begin with.
What benefits do I get from rating my songs? If I could 'de-heart' songs and then they arent played in the random songs list that would be awesome.
I have several Smart Playlist based on Star ratings. I do the majority of management in iTunes but it is still nice to be able to make changes in the Music app too.
My library contains about 6,000 songs that I "like" (3 stars or above). A more granular indication of "how much" I like a song allows me to create better playlists. Some examples in my library:
On the other hand, if I were more selective about marking songs as "Loved" (equiv. to 4 stars and above), the Daft Punk and Nirvana playlists would be too small - 14 songs and 17 songs respectively.
Bottom line is I prefer to have various playlists depending on my mood - by artist, genre, only favorites etc. Manually moving individual songs in & out of playlists doesn’t work for me. It is cumbersome to do on smaller devices and requires too much time and effort per track.
Smart Playlists keeps my playlists "up to date" automatically by dynamically reacting to the changes in my library. Star Ratings contribute to this process by allowing me to quickly & easily set an indication of "how much" I like each song.
The point of my original post was not to get into a debate about "loved" vs. "star ratings". This iOS 10 change is a big deal for those of us that have enjoyed star ratings over the last 10+ years. I’m hoping the discussion will generate feedback to Apple and identify possible ways we can get the same level of song management that we have enjoyed in the past.
- Daft Punk (artist "daft punk", 3 stars and above) = 35 songs
- Nirvana (artist "nirvana", 3 stars and above) = 27 songs
- 90's Favorites (year 90-99, 4 star and above) = 131 songs
- Classic Rock Favorites (genre "classic rock", 4 stars and above) = 156 songs
- All-Time Favorites (all songs, 5 stars) = 305 songs
On the other hand, if I were more selective about marking songs as "Loved" (equiv. to 4 stars and above), the Daft Punk and Nirvana playlists would be too small - 14 songs and 17 songs respectively.
Bottom line is I prefer to have various playlists depending on my mood - by artist, genre, only favorites etc. Manually moving individual songs in & out of playlists doesn’t work for me. It is cumbersome to do on smaller devices and requires too much time and effort per track.
Smart Playlists keeps my playlists "up to date" automatically by dynamically reacting to the changes in my library. Star Ratings contribute to this process by allowing me to quickly & easily set an indication of "how much" I like each song.
The point of my original post was not to get into a debate about "loved" vs. "star ratings". This iOS 10 change is a big deal for those of us that have enjoyed star ratings over the last 10+ years. I’m hoping the discussion will generate feedback to Apple and identify possible ways we can get the same level of song management that we have enjoyed in the past.
Last edited:
That reasoning is rubbish. Clearly you're wrong about 'no one really has... star opinions on music '. Everybody posting on this thread does apart from you.
You can argue you prefer a binary rating, but to say something doesn't exist when you're presented evidence right in front of your face takes a pretty special type of ignorant person.
Last edited:
I think we should bombard Apple with feedback. I also organize my library and iPhone and all involved playlists using stars and removing this one feature totally kills iOS 10 for me.
I hate it too but here is plausibility:
- Having 2 ratings systems is very unApple like and redundant
- Using the simpler of the 2 is very Apple like
- Simple Heart system is more in line with other music service systems
Having 2 rating systems is very unApple like? And the opposite is very Apple like?
Well, we just ditch rating system on App Store, iTunes Store. Replace them with "love" and "dislike". Perfect, right?
How are your reading skills? I said "I hate it too" and just giving likely and plausible reasons. Please don't put words in my mouth "right". Also bad analogy since App store ratings are more in line with Yelp type ratings and 'needs' levels.
Again I use Stars and want it included. I do NOT think Hearts is the "perfect" system for me. However I'm not Apple and don't get to decide.
Last edited:
Does iOS 10 still present correctly playlists created in iTunes based on star ratings?
Not being able to rate on iOS doesn't complete ruin everything, but it is annoying.
[doublepost=1473083428][/doublepost]
I think @Shirasaki read your response fine, she/he just disagreed with it as I do.
I don't see how star ratings and Loves are un-Apple like. I'd venture to say that the love option is un-Apple like since the iTunes Store, App Store, iBook store, use star ratings.
Right now, the simple love option is presented front and center. Very simple and Apple like for the basic user. If you tap the album art you see the "hidden" star rating for more "advanced" users. It's not like Apple pushes both at your face.
Also, the loved option is built with Apple Music in mind. I don't use Apple Music because a good 70% of my music isn't on iTunes.
My reading skills may be bad as I am not a native English speaker, but, why App Store ratings "need" levels while iTunes music does not need? Do people just "love" music and "dislike" music and that's it? Of course not.
I apologise for my previous reply if you feel offensive however.
[doublepost=1473085527][/doublepost]
Mine is around 80% and a good number of them are truly "exclusive", bundled with limited edition BD boxes.
Those songs will never ever land on iTunes.
So, I am with you on this one.
As an arrogant American I just assume everyone reads & speaks proper American (even if I don't).
It just seemed your sarcasm was directed at me.AGAIN for everyone, I have used Stars for years and VERY much want to see Apple keep the system. I'm not the enemy and just trying to interpret Apple's message.
Now a little understanding of the 2 systems (and how they differ) seems to be in order.
- Stars was put in iTunes MANY years ago when people bought their music. It is a 100% personal rating system that can be used in any manner for your music and is not known to Apple. It is not applicable to Apple since all (prior to
Music) Star rated tracks are tracks you bought and won't tell Music what you don't want to hear. - *Hearts (aka: Like & Dislike) is used by all streaming services and is a necessity. Streaming services need to make you happy by offering you music you want to hear. So every time you Like or Dislike (Heart for Music) this info is sent back to the service to fine tune the music it offers you. So it's MORE for Apple's use then the user.
*Hearts was inherited from Beats but synonyms to a Like & Dislike system.
So Apple can NEVER get rid of Hearts (Like & Dislike) for
Music since this is fundamental to the way all streaming services works. However Apple can get rid of Stars since it is meaningless to Music and is only a personal rating system.I want Apple to add the Star system back in (again Apple CAN'T get rid of Hearts) and have both. However having a redundant system is not the Apple way and as much as I HATE it Apple is probably making the Star system legacy and may even remove it from iTunes in a few years.
Last edited:
Hmm. Really?As an arrogant American I just assume everyone reads & speaks proper American (even if I don't).
For other parts of comments, thank you for your elaboration.
When we remove something, in favour of some other stuff new, either we persuade everyone else that new stuff is 10x better, or we may choose to not remove it. Unfortunately, Apple does not fall into any of those categories. They just want to remove it to remove it, although I can see they favour Apple Music and persuade everyone using Apple products to use it.
However it is also super clear that sub is not for everyone, even though we basically subscribe electricity/mobile number/home, with varying price. For electricity and mobile number everyone is the same but there are still a lot of people pay outright their mortgage. Same applies to Apple Music. I think, either Apple really think they are the god of entire world, or they just don't know Apple Music is not for everyone, they should've introduced something favouring both local music listener and stream music listener. These are two major groups and I believe curating for both of them is not a problem.
Ahh, before I realise I have said so much.