Star Trek: Alpha to Delta Quadrants & Everything In Between

[Mousse]

I think starting a new Star Trek iteration is very difficult. While on the one hand you have a well established brand and universe to draw on, you also have an incredibly knowledgeable fan base, that know the franchise and universe better than you do. There are several hundred episodes to contend with. Fans will recognise (and not forgive you for) repeating a plot line or getting 'technology' wrong.

Dunno about that. Fans are pretty forgiving of the technology gaffs. STV: Final Frontier, Enterprise-A went to the galactic core and back to Earth in less than a year, probably less than a month in universe time. NASA estimates the distance from the galactic core to Earth as over 20,000 lightyears. Voyager, one of the fastest ship in Starfleet at the time, would take 70 years to get from the Delta Quadrant to Earth (70,000 lightyears distance). Obviously Voyager is faster than Enterprise-A. Someone screw up. Most folks didn't notice.

When the Trill were first introduced, they had cranial ridges and no spots (TNG: The Host). In DS9, all the Trills had spots and no cranial ridges. We rolled with it. Gul Macet (TNG: The Wounded) shaved his moustache and called himself Gul Dukat. People noticed, but it didn't bother us. Letek (TNG: The Last Outpost) lost his mean streak and became a bartender on DS9. A few people notice, but again, no harm no foul.

We're pretty forgiving of the little stuff if the storyline is good. If they have good writing, whatever they come up with next should do well. BUT only if the writing is good.

I have to admit that Dr. Bashir as a character rather annoyed the hell out of me. He was insufferably self absorbed; he thought far too highly of himself and was open about it. And the character was very clearly written as desiring a simpering helpless female companion to whom he could play a paternalistic partner. (And of course this is why he failed so miserably with Dax, she was nothing of the sort.) Anyway, I didn't find the character very endearing at all, but he was a good character to have on the station, and as you say he had many good episodes throughout the series.

Oh and Garak. Perhaps my favorite character on DS9...

Well, as a genetically augmented human, he is superior to us. Yes, he was a good character. His interactions with O'Brien is great stuff. Being shot down by Jadzia time and time again, win one for those of us who are inferior. Since she did comment once that Morn (DS9's version Cheer's Norm) was cute. (DS9: Progress)

Garak is a surprisingly well developed character despite being only a minor character. This is why DS9 is my favorite of the series, because the characters come alive.

Chief O'Brien is my favorite character on DS9. He was pretty boring on TNG, just another guy.

 

[bradl]

Well, as a genetically augmented human, he is superior to us. Yes, he was a good character. His interactions with O'Brien is great stuff. Being shot down by Jadzia time and time again, win one for those of us who are inferior. Since she did comment once that Morn (DS9's version Cheer's Norm) was cute. (DS9: Progress)

Garak is a surprisingly well developed character despite being only a minor character. This is why DS9 is my favorite of the series, because the characters come alive.

Chief O'Brien is my favorite character on DS9. He was pretty boring on TNG, just another guy.

He was shot down by Jadzia, but a couple of times he did hook up with Ezri Dax. Either way, it was kind of hard for him to do either; his real life wife is Nana Visitor - Major Kira.

And O'Brien.. His character grew at that point. Keep in mind that he actually started on TNG, as he was at the Conn in Encounter at Farpoint.

BL.

 

[Obi Wan Kenobi]

...but it still didn't save ST V from being a hot, jarring, disjointed mess. When I saw Spock's rocket boots, I knew there would be trouble.

LOL. And v true.

re DS9
@mobilehaathi
Garak was a fantastic character on DS9. Brilliantly handled by the writers and actor, I thought. We were always left wanting more. I never realised how much you learned when becoming a tailor.

@Mousse
As for Doctor Bashir. I thought he was a great character until they made him 'genetically enhanced'. It was an unfortunate idea that didn't work for me at all.


On the subject of Captains:
I think we need ground rules for this discussion.

My first rule:
Kirk has to be put aside (perhaps on a pedestal) and left out of comparisons. He's the captain most people grew up with, and many have seen in that role for 30+ years. Shatner's and the character's success are part of what created the franchise. It is therefore inevitable that we all view him through rose-tinted glasses to a greater or lesser extent. Plus a lot of the things we might criticise him for now, are not fair criticisms for a character in a 60s TV show.

My second rule:
Movie performances / story lines don't count. Only TOS and TNG have movies, DS9, Voyager and Enterprise do not.


My list of preferences:
1) Picard. For me, he is the best captain by far. Stewart played him as a character that I could believe captained a Warship in the real world. He had dignity, sagacity and charisma. He knew his ship and his crew and exemplified what a leader should be at all times.
2) Janeway. A strong captain, that handled a difficult plot device - merging marquis with an ST crew thousands of lightyears from home, with credibility and panache. Firm, fair and tough when required. If you had to wear a red jersey on one of her landing parties, you had a much better chance of surviving than with other captains.
3) Sisko. The early plot device of a rebellious, disgruntled Starfleet officer was terrible, and not the actors fault. The writers should have abandoned it earlier. The 'emissary' plot line was also terrible, and not the actor's fault either. But as the series developed, he got stronger. I liked the lone father + fahter/son plot points and the way he 'ran/governed' DS9. I loved the 'Tribbles and tribulations' episode. When the war with the Jem Haddar came along, I think he dealt with it well, but I do place him well below Janeway.
4) Archer. Bakula's Quantum Leap baggage was too great. It wasn't the 60s any more, so they way he was written didn't work. I liked how he was discovering why a 'prime directive' might be a better way to proceed than Starfleet's 1st (entirely credible) approach to space exploration. I also liked how he dealt with the Vulcans, and the Rodians. These were strong points for his character. But the writing, Bakula's baggage (and shortage of series) easily make him easily fourth place for me.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

LOL. And v true.

re DS9
@mobilehaathi
Garak was a fantastic character on DS9. Brilliantly handled by the writers and actor, I thought. We were always left wanting more. I never realised how much you learned when becoming a tailor.

@Mousse
As for Doctor Bashir. I thought he was a great character until they made him 'genetically enhanced'. It was an unfortunate idea that didn't work for me at all.


On the subject of Captains:
I think we need ground rules for this discussion.

My first rule:
Kirk has to be put aside (perhaps on a pedestal) and left out of comparisons. He's the captain most people grew up with, and many have seen in that role for 30+ years. Shatner's and the character's success are part of what created the franchise. It is therefore inevitable that we all view him through rose-tinted glasses to a greater or lesser extent. Plus a lot of the things we might criticise him for now, are not fair criticisms for a character in a 60s TV show.

My second rule:
Movie performances / story lines don't count. Only TOS and TNG have movies, DS9, Voyager and Enterprise do not.


My list of preferences:
1) Picard. For me, he is the best captain by far. Stewart played him as a character that I could believe captained a Warship in the real world. He had dignity, sagacity and charisma. He knew his ship and his crew and exemplified what a leader should be at all times.
2) Janeway. A strong captain, that handled a difficult plot device - merging marquis with an ST crew thousands of lightyears from home, with credibility and panache. Firm, fair and tough when required. If you had to wear a red jersey on one of her landing parties, you had a much better chance of surviving than with other captains.
3) Sisko. The early plot device of a rebellious, disgruntled Starfleet officer was terrible, and not the actors fault. The writers should have abandoned it earlier. The 'emissary' plot line was also terrible, and not the actor's fault either. But as the series developed, he got stronger. I liked the lone father + fahter/son plot points and the way he 'ran/governed' DS9. I loved the 'Tribbles and tribulations' episode. When the war with the Jem Haddar came along, I think he dealt with it well, but I do place him well below Janeway.
4) Archer. Bakula's Quantum Leap baggage was too great. It wasn't the 60s any more, so they way he was written didn't work. I liked how he was discovering why a 'prime directive' might be a better way to proceed than Starfleet's 1st (entirely credible) approach to space exploration. I also liked how he dealt with the Vulcans, and the Rodians. These were strong points for his character. But the writing, Bakula's baggage (and shortage of series) easily make him easily fourth place for me.

Well, to be honest, I have no quarrel with anyone discussing James T Kirk, as a captain, character, or as a man. (Though the clichéd love affairs did become rather trying, over time.)

And - what gave what might have been a clichéd interpretation of leadership a bit of depth was his relationship with Mr Spock. Leonard Nimoy made TOS, - his integrity and intelligence - and the depth of his nuanced performance - he owned that role - served as its moral compass and focal point - just as was the case with Patrick Stewart as Captain Picard in TNG.

So, Kirk was given a depth of character by having Mr Spock on board, - without Spock, the character of Kirk would have been a lot more one-dimensional, even though that style of portraying 'leadership' was what was fashionable at the time.

Anyway, it wasn't simply a well balanced pair; it was a triumvirate. The original triumvirate was completed by Dr McCoy - (an excellent role beautifully played by DeForest Kelley) in a classic 'head, heart, guts' portrayal of humanity.

TNG solved this with the superb Patrick Stewart, and a lot of intelligent ensemble playing - Picard was balanced by his senior officers - not just Jonathan Frakes as Riker - and we got to know them all very well.

Likewise, DS9 developed the character of its cast as well as that of the captain, meaning that the 'captain' was fleshed out - and supported by - and complemented by and challenged by - those whom he commanded and those with whom he worked.

Chakotay balanced Janeway on Voyager, and, again, while the rest of the crew weren't utilised quite as much as they could have been, you can still recall them, (or most of them) years later, which means that both the writing and the characterisation were not all that bad.

Enterprise had the problem not just of the woefully micast Scott Bakula, and a poorly conceived character - with a poorly thought through character developmental arc - written as an out-of-date interpretation of what leadership is all about - the rest of the cast were so shamefully under-utilised, so that both Bakula's flaws as an actor, and the character's short-comings as a poorly drawn character, were not compensated for.

With the exception of Tucker and T'Pol (the latter was excellent), - and I had no issue with their awkward friendship or relationship - I cannot recall any other members of the crew. Now, while I did not stay with the series all that long, my memory is normally extremely good; these characters were so anonymous that they were utterly forgettable.

 

[Obi Wan Kenobi]

@Scepticalscribe I agree with everything you say about TOS. My 'rules' are only suggestions for discussions of ranking captains in order of preference. Kirk is such a colossus in ST that to include him runs the risk of it all being about Kirk and Picard, and not much of a discussion at all.

As for Enterprise, for which I seem to be the default defence advocate for (even though it is my least favourite iteration). I do think you are being (unusually for you) unfair. You admit to not having seen all of it. All of the iterations took several series to get going. It really did improve.

Edited to add: I agree with you on DS9 and Voyager too.

 

[BigMcGuire]

As for Enterprise, for which I seem to be the default defence advocate for (even though it is my least favourite iteration). I do think you are being (unusually for you) unfair. You admit to not having seen all of it. All of the iterations took several series to get going. It really did improve.

I have a friend who is a trekkie as well - he actually really enjoyed Enterprise. He says the same thing to me (that I'm being unfair to Enterprise). I couldn't get past the first 2-3 episodes in the first season. He tells me that it got a lot better later on, especially when the TNG / VOY crew came in to help direct.

Because of this, I will watch Enterprise someday, I just haven't gotten around to it yet --- I know to be fair, the first season of TNG was horrible.

STILL.... I think I take @Scepticalscribe 's view on this --- I don't think he makes a great captain and I just don't feel Star Trek watching those episodes. That said, I won't throw it away because the TNG / VOY crew came in to help direct / act. I kinda see it like the ugly duckling that tried way too hard and failed.

Tho you are probably right - if I give it a chance and watch all of it....

 

[Mousse]

3) Sisko. The early plot device of a rebellious, disgruntled Starfleet officer was terrible, and not the actors fault. The writers should have abandoned it earlier. The 'emissary' plot line was also terrible, and not the actor's fault either. But as the series developed, he got stronger. I liked the lone father + fahter/son plot points and the way he 'ran/governed' DS9. I loved the 'Tribbles and tribulations' episode. When the war with the Jem Haddar came along, I think he dealt with it well, but I do place him well below Janeway.

Sisko, like Janeway, is duty first. When they retreated from DS9, Jake stayed behind. Ben couldn't risk the crew for one man, not even his own son. (DS9: Call to Arms) But unlike Janeway, he wasn't duty only. In the Tribble episode, Dax knew he wanted to speak with Kirk, but Ben refused to do anything that could alter the time line. Duty first. But eventually he gave in to temptation. He spoke with Kirk in the end, some inconsequential stuff about duty rosters. (DS9: Trials and Tribble-ations)

Janeway would never had done that. She's 100% by the book. That explains why she made Admiral before Picard, who's more spirit of the law and less letter of the law. (ST: Nemesis)

I loved the DS9 Tribble episode. I can't get over Odo's sarcasm when talking with Worf. "Another glorious chapter in Klingon history. Tell me, do they still sing songs of The Great Tribble Hunt?" And here we were lead to believe Odo was a stuffy ol' stick in the mud.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

Sisko, like Janeway, is duty first. When they retreated from DS9, Jake stayed behind. Ben couldn't risk the crew for one man, not even his own son. (DS9: Call to Arms) But unlike Janeway, he wasn't duty only. In the Tribble episode, Dax knew he wanted to speak with Kirk, but Ben refused to do anything that could alter the time line. Duty first. But eventually he gave in to temptation. He spoke with Kirk in the end, some inconsequential stuff about duty rosters. (DS9: Trials and Tribble-ations)

Janeway would never had done that. She's 100% by the book. That explains why she made Admiral before Picard, who's more spirit of the law and less letter of the law. (ST: Nemesis)

I loved the DS9 Tribble episode. I can't get over Odo's sarcasm when talking with Worf. "Another glorious chapter in Klingon history. Tell me, do they still sing songs of The Great Tribble Hunt?" And here we were lead to believe Odo was a stuffy ol' stick in the mud.

Actually, I loved that Tribble episode, as well. It was hilarious, yet offered a nice thought-provoking undertone, and with wit and panache saluted, paid homage to, and yet wonderfully inverted a classic episode of TOS, adding intelligent dimensions rather than disturbing canon.

What had been cute and cuddly (if disturbingly - and dangerously - rapid breeders) in the original TOS, who were genetically wired to detect and detest Klingons, - a key element of the plot - were revealed to be an environmental menace and hazard that the Klingons were quite right to wish to control if not downright eradicate. Very, very funny, and - yes - very good.

And, moreover , any episode on any series of Star Trek that deals with Klingon culture or history - or political power struggles - will find a fascinated fan in me.

 

[mobilehaathi]

@Scepticalscribe I agree with everything you say about TOS. My 'rules' are only suggestions for discussions of ranking captains in order of preference. Kirk is such a colossus in ST that to include him runs the risk of it all being about Kirk and Picard, and not much of a discussion at all.

As for Enterprise, for which I seem to be the default defence advocate for (even though it is my least favourite iteration). I do think you are being (unusually for you) unfair. You admit to not having seen all of it. All of the iterations took several series to get going. It really did improve.

Edited to add: I agree with you on DS9 and Voyager too.

I'll say there was, indeed, some improvement in the later parts of Enterprise. I enjoyed the Vulcan storyline, for instance. But good grief I thought the Xindi plot was tortured and fairly uninteresting, and all that moronic temporal Cold War business...

Look I'm a fan of a fun/silly time-travel plot here or there (ahem, ST:IV, STTNG's Time's Arrow), but making it a major plot thread through the series was a mistake. And I didn't find it particularly compelling.

 

[Intell]

Janeway would never had done that. She's 100% by the book. That explains why she made Admiral before Picard, who's more spirit of the law and less letter of the law. (ST: Nemesis)

Didn't Picard say that he has turned down being made an admiral on a few occasions in the tv show?

 

[bradl]

Something else to think about here, and

Didn't Picard say that he has turned down being made an admiral on a few occasions in the tv show?

Permanently, I'm not sure..

I know for a couple of episodes he was an admiral, but that was in the head of Riker in one episode, and the only other I can think of was in All Good Things.

And another funny little thing. The only 2 people throughout the entire run of TNG who never got a promotion, were Data and Troi. From pilot to finale, they were at their same rank the entire time.

BL.

 

[Intell]

I though Troit got to the rank of commander? I recall her failing and then succeeding at some task that would kill holo-Gordi.

 

[mobilehaathi]

And another funny little thing. The only 2 people throughout the entire run of TNG who never got a promotion, were Data and Troi. From pilot to finale, they were at their same rank the entire time.

Re rank and Voyager, I thought it was hilarious that a former convicted criminal (treason!) could be given a field commission of Lieutenant, be reduced in rank to Ensign for disobeying orders, and then earn his promotion back all while poor little Harry Kim remained at Ensign.

 

[Mousse]

Something else to think about here, and


Permanently, I'm not sure..

I know for a couple of episodes he was an admiral, but that was in the head of Riker in one episode, and the only other I can think of was in All Good Things.

And another funny little thing. The only 2 people throughout the entire run of TNG who never got a promotion, were Data and Troi. From pilot to finale, they were at their same rank the entire time.

BL.

Picard was offered the job of Commandant of Star Fleet Academy (and a promotion to Admiral), but he turned that down. (TNG: Coming of Age).

As for Data never getting promoted. For the life of me I can't figure out why? He's got over 26 years of experience in Starfleet and is skill set is undeniable. He did an admirable job commanding the USS Sutherland when finally given his own command. (TNG: Redemption II) I can only think it's because of bigotry of humans not wanting to take orders from a machine, like Lt. Cmd. Hobson (Data's first officer) showed initially in that episode.

With his skill set and experience, Data should be an Admiral at the least, maybe even, Commander, Starfleet. Starfleet is bias against to artificial life forms.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

I'll say there was, indeed, some improvement in the later parts of Enterprise. I enjoyed the Vulcan storyline, for instance. But good grief I thought the Xindi plot was tortured and fairly uninteresting, and all that moronic temporal Cold War business...

Look I'm a fan of a fun/silly time-travel plot here or there (ahem, ST:IV, STTNG's Time's Arrow), but making it a major plot thread through the series was a mistake. And I didn't find it particularly compelling.

Agree about Time's Arrow - I thought that absolutely hilarious, and very, very clever - tongue-in-cheek clever, and intellectually clever - and I also had the sense that the cast hugely enjoyed themselves making it; moreover, there were also quite a few very good jokes about US society circa the 1890s - it was the sort of episode (or, pair of episodes) where, if you had read stuff of that era, or, about that era, you could see how clever a homage it all was.

I though Troit got to the rank of commander? I recall her failing and then succeeding at some task that would kill holo-Gordi.

Yes, Deanna Troy failed her commander's exam the first time she took it (with Riker an especially unsympathetic examiner - you got the sense that he was almost pleased to be able to fail her), but she managed to pass it on the second occasion, having worked out what she needed to do. So, Troi ended the series as a commander.
[doublepost=1497550353][/doublepost]

Picard was offered the job of Commandant of Star Fleet Academy (and a promotion to Admiral), but he turned that down. (TNG: Coming of Age).

As for Data never getting promoted. For the life of me I can't figure out why? He's got over 26 years of experience in Starfleet and is skill set is undeniable. He did an admirable job commanding the USS Sutherland when finally given his own command. (TNG: Redemption II) I can only think it's because of bigotry of humans not wanting to take orders from a machine, like Lt. Cmd. Hobson (Data's first officer) showed initially in that episode.

With his skill set and experience, Data should be an Admiral at the least, maybe even, Commander, Starfleet. Starfleet is bias against to artificial life forms.

Yes, agreed.

I always assumed that it was deliberately done to make the point that howsoever talented, qualified and experienced one was, (and, in real life, that very same prejudice had historically been applied to African-Americans and women in the armed forces) one could not expect to be promoted beyond a certain grade if certain prejudices came into play, whether consciously or unconsciously.

 

[mobilehaathi]

Well, as a genetically augmented human, he is superior to us. Yes, he was a good character. His interactions with O'Brien is great stuff. Being shot down by Jadzia time and time again, win one for those of us who are inferior. Since she did comment once that Morn (DS9's version Cheer's Norm) was cute. (DS9: Progress)

Perhaps we can explain away his narcissistic personality traits as an unintended side effect of the genetic engineering? Admittedly, those behavior traits aren't as clearly pathological as the behaviors of the other genetically engineered characters he eventually encounters, so perhaps the genesis of Bashir's behaviors is somewhat more complex.

(Actually, as a geneticist these plot points grate on me fairly hard, and I have a hard time with my suspension of disbelief. Even though, clearly, I don't have any problem with all the other obviously crazy stuff in universe....maybe it is because I worry that, whereas many people might discount the physics gibberish as obvious fiction, some people might take the genetics gibberish as somehow more plausible. Ehh, pet-peeves, and all...)

 

[Number-Six]

Something else to think about here, and


Permanently, I'm not sure..

I know for a couple of episodes he was an admiral, but that was in the head of Riker in one episode, and the only other I can think of was in All Good Things.

And another funny little thing. The only 2 people throughout the entire run of TNG who never got a promotion, were Data and Troi. From pilot to finale, they were at their same rank the entire time.

BL.

Troi was promoted to Commander in season 7

Data had temporary field promotions in at least 2 instances.

So wrong on both counts

 

[bradl]

Re rank and Voyager, I thought it was hilarious that a former convicted criminal (treason!) could be given a field commission of Lieutenant, be reduced in rank to Ensign for disobeying orders, and then earn his promotion back all while poor little Harry Kim remained at Ensign.

Ensign Ro did the same thing, though she gave hers up in the episode before the series finale. She was at Lt. Commander before losing it, dropped to Ensign, got back to Lieutenant, then left.

BL.

 

[mobilehaathi]

He was shot down by Jadzia, but a couple of times he did hook up with Ezri Dax.

Good point. Actually I thought that getting together with Ezri was a rather lame writing move.

He failed with Jadzia because he wanted a 'certain kind' of woman, i.e. insecure, helpless, and fauning (see DS9: If Wishes Were Horses for a manifestation of his idealized version of Jadzia). Then there was the time he helped that catatonic genetically engineered woman and subsequently fell "madly in love" with her---a rather cringeworthy moment for the character. She was the pinnacle of helplessness and he seemed almost turned-on by his own brilliance at being able to bring her out of it. Although to the character's credit he was also attracted to her intelligence (although that seemed to be defined in relation to his own, naturally), and he mercifully stepped back from her once she went full-on submissive ("What am I supposed to do? What am I supposed to feel? Tell me. I want to make you happy. I owe you everything.")

I guess they felt the character needed some kind of "ending" for the show and giving him a Dax probably seemed like a cute idea, but I thought that---while the transformation of Dax from a confident strong woman into a scared insecure girl was a potentially interesting character transition (given all the conflicts with past lives from the symbiant) that could have lead to some interesting stories and development---it felt mostly like Dax was changed more towards his ideal type versus him growing up a bit.

Ehh, pet-peeves.....

 

[bradl]

Good point. Actually I thought that getting together with Ezri was a rather lame writing move.

He failed with Jadzia because he wanted a 'certain kind' of woman, i.e. insecure, helpless, and fauning (see DS9: If Wishes Were Horses for a manifestation of his idealized version of Jadzia). Then there was the time he helped that catatonic genetically engineered woman and subsequently fell "madly in love" with her---a rather cringeworthy moment for the character. She was the pinnacle of helplessness and he seemed almost turned-on by his own brilliance at being able to bring her out of it. Although to the character's credit he was also attracted to her intelligence (although that seemed to be defined in relation to his own, naturally), and he mercifully stepped back from her once she went full-on submissive ("What am I supposed to do? What am I supposed to feel? Tell me. I want to make you happy. I owe you everything.")

I guess they felt the character needed some kind of "ending" for the show and giving him a Dax probably seemed like a cute idea, but I thought that---while the transformation of Dax from a confident strong woman into a scared insecure girl was a potentially interesting character transition (given all the conflicts with past lives from the symbiant) that could have lead to some interesting stories and development---it felt mostly like Dax was changed more towards his ideal type versus him growing up a bit.

Ehh, pet-peeves.....

To a degree. It got Michael Dorn 12 years out of Star Trek, plus put poor Worf into yet another love triangle, since Ezri did have a thing for Bashir, while Jadzia and Worf were married.

But at least Worf got promoted!

BL.

 

[mobilehaathi]

To a degree. It got Michael Dorn 12 years out of Star Trek, plus put poor Worf into yet another love triangle, since Ezri did have a thing for Bashir, while Jadzia and Worf were married.

But at least Worf got promoted!

BL.

Hehe, I thought adding Worf to the cast was great. I really enjoyed him on TNG, and his stories were good on DS9.

I've watched these shows "too much" over the years, so it's no wonder I have strong opinions on various characters....

 

[Scepticalscribe]

Ensign Ro did the same thing, though she gave hers up in the episode before the series finale. She was at Lt. Commander before losing it, dropped to Ensign, got back to Lieutenant, then left.

BL.

No, Ensign Ro never held the rank of Lieutenant-Commander.

When we first meet her, - in that superb episode "Ensign Ro" she is an Ensign who is running the risk of being kicked out of Starfleet entirely as she is regarded as insubordinate and with a Bajoran attitude problem.

Later, upon graduating from the demanding Advanced Tactical Training course, she returns to the Enterprise as a full Lieutenant.

 

[bradl]

No, Ensign Ro never held the rank of Lieutenant-Commander.

When we first meet her, - in that superb episode "Ensign Ro" she is an Ensign who is running the risk of being kicked out of Starfleet entirely as she is regarded as insubordinate and with a Bajoran attitude problem.

Later, upon graduating from the demanding Advanced Tactical Training course, she returns to the Enterprise as a full Lieutenant.

However, in Ensign Ro, it was told that she was demoted from some sort of disciplinary issue and was in detention for some reason. Riker and Picard were talking about her previous service and how she would have made Commander if it weren't for some incident that presumably was the cause of her demotion..

BL.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

However, in Ensign Ro, it was told that she was demoted from some sort of disciplinary issue and was in detention for some reason. Riker and Picard were talking about her previous service and how she would have made Commander if it weren't for some incident that presumably was the cause of her demotion..

BL.

They were talking about her potential as the first Bajoran officer ever to serve with Starfleet; she was a Ensign who had disobeyed orders - costing the lives of several colleagues - and her career was close to a complete washout as she had been court-martialled.

Admiral Kennelly - knowing that she was despised within Starfleet, as a result of her disobeying orders leading to the (unintentional) deaths of colleagues - and seeing her as perfectly expendable - chose her for an illegal mission in "Ensign Ro". She accepted because she was in a position her choice was prison or possible redemption, - if things had worked - even though the actions planned were illegal, and if caught, she would have been hung out to dry by Kennelly.

 

[jerwin]

I though Troit got to the rank of commander? I recall her failing and then succeeding at some task that would kill holo-Gordi.

http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Thine_Own_Self_(episode)

Other than in alternate realities, Data has always appeared as a lieutenant commander, throughout the entire run of TNG and the subsequent movies. Jean-Luc Picard and Beverly Crusher are the only other characters to remain at the rank they started with. Data was also one of the few non-Vulcans to master the Vulcan nerve pinch on-screen, as seen in "Unification II" and Star Trek Nemesis.

http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Data

as for myself, I've been binge watching ds9 for the last month or so. Last one was "the one with the baseball card".

I may get into tng, if only understand Worf's plot a bit better