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I am highly dubious of your understanding of copyright, given that in every other context, copyright is inherent to created works, functions as default-deny for redistribution without the copyright holder's permission, and does not require any sort of notice, registration, or mark in order to be enforced to the full extent of the laws of countries that are signatories to the Berne Convention.

For works created in the US by US citizens, a registration is also required before an infringement suit may be filed in a US court. Furthermore, copyright holders cannot claim statutory damages or attorney's fees unless the work was registered prior to infringement, or within three months of publication.

Copyright under the Berne Convention must be automatic; it is prohibited to require formal registration. However, when the United States joined the Convention 1 March 1989,[1] it continued to make statutory damages and attorney's fees only available for registered works.

But we can't be all right, all the time. nVidia Option Roms do include a copyright notice:

Code:
Version 70.04.2E.00.51
Copyright (C) 1996-2010 NVIDIA Corp
 
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Software industry can’t be compared to the car industry.

If some portions of the code are based on Nvidia’s proprietary binaries from the older architecture or reverse engineered stuff from Apple’s EFI implementation, I would consider this as a shady business model.

As long as the ROM is programmed from the scratch, in accordance with the proper license, you can distribute and possibly sell it if license conditions permits so - but I doubt this is the case.

As @mattspace said, by default, all software is fully copyright protected according to the Berne convention:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/License-free_software

As an example, a quote from GitHub regarding licensing a repository:

"You're under no obligation to choose a license. However, without a license, the default copyright laws apply, meaning that you retain all rights to your source code and no one may reproduce, distribute, or create derivative works from your work."

However, I suppose the Mac EFI does not belong under the license-free software category. The EFI source code is at least derived from Intel’s EFI specification.
 
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Individuals and small operations like MacVidCards usually fly under the radar. The mess hits the fan when you deal with B2B operations where everything is under scrutiny and laws need to be enforced to avoid fines, damage to reputation, etc.
 
Software industry can’t be compared to the car industry.

Software industry or Computer industry?

Why only consider the software inside the computer hardware?

I don't think the law make computer industry in a special position. No matter computer or car, still the same, software + hardware. Especially in this case, we are talking about the software (ROM) inside the hardware (graphic card).

If you buy a car (with software builded in), and you are allow to mod the software.

Then, if you buy a graphic card (with software builded in), you are also allow to mod the software.

If we are not allow to mod the graphic card's ROM. Then we are also not allow to mod a car's ROM.

Isn't it?
 
@h9826790: I look at things from the perspective of a software engineer. It shouldn’t matter where the code sits. There are sanctions in software industry if a company does not follow the licensing terms. Non-profit modding and hackintoshing for your own use is generally ok. Flying under the radar in stealth mode is a bit risky. As for an individual, perhaps the risk is lower.

I don’t know whether these EFIs are compiled from the scratch or questionable work derived from Nvidia’s binaries/Apple’s EFI, so I don’t make any conclusions.
 
UPDATE to MacVidCards reflash of my GTX780SC. After complaing in this forum I decided to send MaCVidCards another email and this time I got an immediate response! MacVidCards said to send the card back in and they would reflash it and refund the shipping cost. So I sent it back in around a week ago and MacVidCards already sent it back to me. I put rhe card in my MacPro tonight and viola boot up screen and Pcie 2.0. Yea!!! Shout out to MacVid Cards for doing what they do!!! Thanks for making it right and giving it another go
 
Quick update: He's (they're ?) probably still alive... Busy flashing cards.

FWIW:
  • I received my flashed GTX 1070 in Europe (US -> France) 11 days after ordering it (USPS delivery, the cheaper).
  • The card is working fine (Bootcamp with W10 & OSX 10.12.5+Web drivers)
  • The only problems are related to nvidia web drivers (Not hardware related, I had them before with nvidia's drivers, not apple's, on a GTX670):
    • iBooks display is "transparent"
    • So is Instruments (Apple dev tool)
 
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On the Apple Discussion boards a customer who purchased a flashed GTX 980 4GB card had problems right out of the box but after a couple email exchanges with MVC, they stopped responding to him.

I sent an email to MVC through their website contact page last week inquiring as a prospective customer turnaround times for GTX 980 flashing services and what brands to avoid or which do they recommend but have not yet received a response.

Their website shows ALL pre-flashed nVideo cards as Out of Stock.

So are they still in business?

There have been threads that always recommended purchasing from them versus other parties that are claimed to have reversed engineered his firmware mods and are now offering flashed nVidia cards themselves. But if they are no longer responding to both existing customers who are having issues with cards they sold them as well as not responding to prospective customers' questions on his services, why should we continue to support this company?
 
^^^^That certainly has not been my experience, and I have been dealing with them for a number off years now. I'm on my third flashed card - GTX570 > GTX780 > GTX1080. Always quick to respond and always courteous.

Lou
 
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Sounds like me you're talking about. Eventually had the card checked on another MacPro 5,1 and same issue. So the card was faulty. MacVidCard have asked me to return it, which I will do this week.
Although very slow to respond, he eventually did, but it sometimes took a couple tries before I'd hear back. A couple times I felt like I starting the process from scratch. And my questions weren't always answered. For example, will I get a refund or exchange? Still don't know. I still want to upgrade my card so prefer an exchange. But if a refund, I'm kind of worried whether I will ever see my money. Hope he delivers.
 
Long time lurker, first time poster. Feel I need to chime in with my 2 Australian peso's worth...

Wasn't sure whether I'd get screwed, end up with a faulty card or what, but I took what I initially thought was a gamble and ordered a flashed 1080 with the $60 USD shipping on the 26th of June.

It arrived on the 4th July. much to my excitement. Installation was fairly easy even for a computer hardware neophyte such as myself. Sierra and Win 7 64 both work perfectly as far as i can tell in my one-ish day of testing/ownership.

I use the computer primarily for music production but bought the card for gaming in Windows 7 64 via boot-camp and I am extremely happy with the difference in performance it has made compared to my ****** old 1gb HD5870.

Anyways, as i said, i was slightly hesitant to fork over my hard-earned, but my experiences thus far have been wholly positive and i felt compelled to post this to balance out the cosmos a little bit, or at least ease the potential anxieties of other worry warts such as myself who are unsure whether they will get what is promised.

If you fellow mac daddies wish for the obligatory heaven benchmark or some kind of proof that i'm not a filthy corporate shill, let me know and ill do my best to provide. :p

Peace
 
^^^^That certainly has not been my experience, and I have been dealing with them for a number off years now. I'm on my third flashed card - GTX570 > GTX780 > GTX1080. Always quick to respond and always courteous.

Lou

Agreed. I am on my second flashed card - first a 6870 and now a 980, both purchased personally and mailed in for the flashing service. Both were positive experiences. The 980 has been a dream and I continue to be super happy with it.
 
What I have read all along in last three to four years, he is not shaddy. I know his problem is probably manpower. One person if working full time, cannot run this business. I help people with fixing their Macs, little problems only locally. Or say upgrading CPU, I have buyers who want me to do it right away. They really get mad to the point I am scared they may pull a gun. My customers are mostly musicians who either come in Dodge Viper or run down Chevy. I think he has real issue of scaling up. I trust his model and I think hacking or whatever is justified if Apple does not sub license someone to do this. Apple wants to make all the money and then small business comes up. I got my Mac Book Air water damaged repaired from someone for 179 (he does for 125 on eBay not sure why he charged me 179) and he did it, Apple was 375 or some. If Apple can make him authorized repair center price will be 375 because Apple wants part of it. After couple of years, every thing should fall in limited public domain as far as I think.
 
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If you fellow mac daddies wish for the obligatory heaven benchmark or some kind of proof that i'm not a filthy corporate shill, let me know and ill do my best to provide. :p

Peace

Unigine Superposition benchmark would be interesting (particular DirectX '1080p extreme' and '4K optimized' benchmark). And observe if the card throttles down when reaching 84° C.
 
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Sounds like me you're talking about. Eventually had the card checked on another MacPro 5,1 and same issue. So the card was faulty. MacVidCard have asked me to return it, which I will do this week.
Although very slow to respond, he eventually did, but it sometimes took a couple tries before I'd hear back. A couple times I felt like I starting the process from scratch. And my questions weren't always answered. For example, will I get a refund or exchange? Still don't know. I still want to upgrade my card so prefer an exchange. But if a refund, I'm kind of worried whether I will ever see my money. Hope he delivers.

This is what Apple has reduced us to: trusting some yahoo who stole Apple's firmware code, then claims that by modding it slightly, he is entitled to intellectual property rights.

I hope oneday Apple just open-sources the UEFI so we can put this guy out of business for good.
 
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This is what Apple has reduced us to: trusting some yahoo who stole Apple's firmware code, then claims that by modding it slightly, he is entitled to intellectual property rights.

I hope oneday Apple just open-sources the UEFI so we can put this guy out of business for good.

Damn bitter. Sounds like someone who wants to leverage countless hours of someone else’s time for free.
 
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This is what Apple has reduced us to: trusting some yahoo who stole Apple's firmware code, then claims that by modding it slightly, he is entitled to intellectual property rights.

He's entitled to the rights to the parts he added. What MVC does that's different to what a lot of people who demand to be able to copy and use his mods without paying him, is that he's not creating extra unpaid copies of the works he builds his derivations on top of.

Every copy of the MVC rom requires a paid copy of the Nvidia ROM and an Nvidia hardware sale. If he were using his modded EFI to flash generic 3rd party unlicensed copies of Nvidia cards, that would be a very different story.

But yes, the best solution would be for the system to be able to fully-utilise generic off the shelf cards.
 
Damn bitter. Sounds like someone who wants to leverage countless hours of someone else’s time for free.

LOL, ever heard of github bro? There is this thing called "open source" nowadays. We all benefit from it, in just about every app or website that you use (including MacRumors.com) there are many libraries of open source code.

So please, get off your ridiculous high horse.

And... I'm being positive: I advocate for a future where this kind of unresponsive, 60-day-warranty, one-man "company" is not our only means to experience an Apple boot screen on the latest GPUs.

That's not bitterness, not at all. Quit accusing me of stuff. I did not say I want to leverage anyone's time -- you said it, not me.

What I don't want, is for my only option to be a hacker who claims dominion over other people's code just for modding it; please show me the sourcecode license from Apple that permitted him to do it while keeping his changes private!

I could care less about having a modded firmware, I'm totally fine with the black screen up until boot. Also I respect the time he has put in, and more power to him to make some cash. I just don't like the fact that he is the only option. Because you should not have to pay extra to use a video card like this with a Mac, the companies should make the firmware for you. Apple could easily afford to pay for this to be available for all of us.
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He's entitled to the rights to the parts he added.

He's entitled? According to what?

If Apple told him to cease and desist selling modded versions of their code then he would have to. It's like, if I modded iOS and started selling the modded version, I would not have any rights or be entitled to anything. I might get away with it if my operation was so small that it flew under Apple's radar, but I really don't think this guy is legally entitled to any IP rights here.

What MVC does that's different to what a lot of people who demand to be able to copy and use his mods without paying him, is that he's not creating extra unpaid copies of the works he builds his derivations on top of.

Every copy of the MVC rom requires a paid copy of the Nvidia ROM and an Nvidia hardware sale. If he were using his modded EFI to flash generic 3rd party unlicensed copies of Nvidia cards, that would be a very different story.

What do you mean by "paid copy of the Nvidia ROM"?

I am not sure what you mean by "3rd party unlicensed copies of Nvidia cards"... how do you make a copy of an Nvidia graphics card? What does that mean?

As far as I am aware, if you buy any 1080 GTX, whether it be from Nvidia themselves, or from EVGA or MSI etc., then Nvidia has already gotten paid. Why would Nvidia care what you do with the card, after that? What difference would it make to Nvidia if some modded firmware for Macs showed up on github?
 
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He's entitled? According to what?

The parts he creates, are covered by copyright, by virtue of his creating them. Unless we get into issues of whether what he does is discovery rather than creation, but then again in America, discovery is subject to IP claims - eg genetic markers themselves (discovery), rather than the specific technology of tests to identify them (creation).


If Apple told him to cease and desist selling modded versions of their code then he would have to.

That would depend on how he does it - his argument would be that he's modifying a product he bought (The GPU), and reselling it - akin to buying a shovel, cutting serrations in the end, and then selling it as a "3rd party modified serrated shovel".


It's like, if I modded iOS and started selling the modded version, I would not have any rights or be entitled to anything. I might get away with it if my operation was so small that it flew under Apple's radar, but I really don't think this guy is legally entitled to any IP rights here.

You'd have rights to your modifications as a standalone thing, and if you bought iOS devices, applied your modifications and then resold them, the first sale doctrine would AFAIK leave Apple with no actionable cause (with the proviso that your modifications couldn't be claimed to be for the purposes of enabling piracy, or defeating encryption / security etc)



What do you mean by "paid copy of the Nvidia ROM"?

When you buy a GPU, the software on the ROM is a part of that.

I am not sure what you mean by "3rd party unlicensed copies of Nvidia cards"... how do you make a copy of an Nvidia graphics card? What does that mean?

What MVC does, doesn't create extra copies of Nvidia's code in the wild that haven't been paid for by a customer, and for which Nvidia received revenue. That's the important distinction here, he's buying, modifying and reselling secondhand a product. It's not like he's copying iOS and then modding it to run on a generic Chinese Android tablet and then selling them, which would result in iOS tablets in existence, that Apple hadn't been paid for.

As far as I am aware, if you buy any 1080 GTX, whether it be from Nvidia themselves, or from EVGA or MSI etc., then Nvidia has already gotten paid. Why would Nvidia care what you do with the card, after that? What difference would it make to Nvidia if some modded firmware for Macs showed up on github?

Exactly, that's why MVCs operation doesn't attract lawsuits. His mods only happen on products that have already paid up the line to Nvidia. When people demand to be able to copy his mods and sell cards themselves, they're not paying up the line to him for the bit that he created for every single card they mod.
 
Unigine Superposition benchmark would be interesting (particular DirectX '1080p extreme' and '4K optimized' benchmark). And observe if the card throttles down when reaching 84° C.

can do! downloading the superposition benchmark now. please excuse my ignorance but will i get an accurate result from the 4k benchmark without a 4k monitor? im currently running a 1080p 144hz screen.
 
can do! downloading the superposition benchmark now. please excuse my ignorance but will i get an accurate result from the 4k benchmark without a 4k monitor? im currently running a 1080p 144hz screen.

Yes, no problem, you can even do an 8K benchmark.
 
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The parts he creates, are covered by copyright, by virtue of his creating them. Unless we get into issues of whether what he does is discovery rather than creation, but then again in America, discovery is subject to IP claims - eg genetic markers themselves (discovery), rather than the specific technology of tests to identify them (creation).

The Apple logo is trademarked and copyrighted. The Apple UEFI firmware is also copyrighted. We have no idea the extent to which this guy has modified Apple's firmware code before adding it to these Nvidia cards, but there is absolutely no doubt that most of what he has done is IP theft. Why Apple permits this, yet cracked down on sales of Mac clones, is beyond me...

That would depend on how he does it - his argument would be that he's modifying a product he bought (The GPU), and reselling it - akin to buying a shovel, cutting serrations in the end, and then selling it as a "3rd party modified serrated shovel".

LOL, no. This is like if he took Acme Power Drills and modified them to work with a proprietary Craftsman charging dock that required proprietary Craftsman code to talk to the charger -- code he ripped out of Craftsman firmware updaters and modded. And then he slapped a Craftsman logo on it!

You'd have rights to your modifications as a standalone thing, and if you bought iOS devices, applied your modifications and then resold them, the first sale doctrine would AFAIK leave Apple with no actionable cause (with the proviso that your modifications couldn't be claimed to be for the purposes of enabling piracy, or defeating encryption / security etc)

Yeah, it was a bad analogy on my part, since if all you did was to modify the iOS code, but you didn't add in any code that you stole from somewhere else, then you're right, that wouldn't be a big deal. But I made a bad analogy, because he is not just modifying Nvidia's exising firmware (I'd have no problem with that)--he is adding to it a modified version of a proprietary piece of software that he did not create and has no right to be selling.

When you buy a GPU, the software on the ROM is a part of that.

When you buy a GPU, Apple's custom UEFI is not part of that. That's the whole point. If he truly wrote every line of code then OK, but that's certainly not the case here.

What MVC does, doesn't create extra copies of Nvidia's code in the wild that haven't been paid for by a customer, and for which Nvidia received revenue. That's the important distinction here,

LOL this is a complete BS argument. You cannot run Nvidia firmware on anything other than Nvidia cards, so it would not hurt Nvidia's sales if it was open source. You cannot use the firmware without having bought one of their cards in the first place, and anyone who might use the firmware has necessarily already bought a card.

If someone were to release a piece of software that modifies an Nvidia binary but requires you to get the Nvidia binary from Nvidia itself, then it would still allow the mod to be open source without any concerns about spreading around copies of Nvidia's code.

Of course, if the contents of the mod violated OTHER people's copyrights, like Apple's, that could then be an issue.

<snip>
Exactly, that's why MVCs operation doesn't attract lawsuits. His mods only happen on products that have already paid up the line to Nvidia. When people demand to be able to copy his mods and sell cards themselves, they're not paying up the line to him for the bit that he created for every single card they mod.

But he is also profiting from all the bits Apple created, and I guarantee you they didn't license him to do that, and he himself is not "paying up the line" to Apple for the bits THEY created. Hence why your argument is total hogwash.

What he's doing reminds me of those guys who sell SD cards that have firmware to allow pirated games to run on GameBoy DS. Sure, they might have created some special hack software that enables the piracy to actually work... but it's still hacking and piracy. It's not that I don't respect the time it took to hack it, but, when people make emulators to run Nintendo ROMs on Android or Mac etc., they make them open source and free. This I can respect, because they didn't invent Nintendo or the ROMs they are enabling to work, so why should they profit from what they did, which is only of interest because Nintendo made it?

I get it -- this guy wants to make some money, and he's found a way to make it worth his time to do these mods. I don't think it's all that ethical but unless someone told him to stop, then more power to him. In a sense he is doing a great service for the community, and he has to put food on his table like all of us. But don't act like it's less greazy or less grey-market than it is.
 
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The Apple logo is trademarked and copyrighted. The Apple UEFI firmware is also copyrighted. We have no idea the extent to which this guy has modified Apple's firmware code before adding it to these Nvidia cards, but there is absolutely no doubt that most of what he has done is IP theft. Why Apple permits this, yet cracked down on sales of Mac clones, is beyond me...

I was under the impression that what he does is modify Nvidia code to work with macOS, not copy Apple code from the Mac onto the card - in which case, sure, Apple could have a problem with the parts that he copies, but that doesn't justify anyone except Apple ripping off his mods. Person C doesn't get to steal from Person B, because Person B stole from Person A.

Again, if what he does is discover the one an only possible way to modify code to make it work, then if you can discover how to do the same thing, and do it exactly the same way, there's no way he could claim against you. The complaints I've seen him make, have always been about other people not wanting to put in the work to independently discover how to do what he does, with the justification being that "since you discovered this already, everyone else has a right to that knowledge, now that it's been discovered".

Think of what he does as economically akin to a security bug bounty, just one that's paid out in small increments.

As to why Apple wouldn't do anything about it, again it comes down to extant instances - a mac cloner causes additional extant macOS computers to exist, for which Apple doesn't get paid. MVC creates products which only have a purpose when used in computers that people have already bought from Apple.

Now, sure Apple might argue that MVC robs them of new sales in favour of secondhand sales they don't get any return on, but when you look at their customer loyalty stats, most Macs sold secondhand probably get replaced with a new Mac, and they're probably being sold to someone who isn't in the market for a new Mac in the first place. From that perspective, what he's actually doing is enabling people to remain in the Apple product ecosystem, which includes Apple's content platforms, iOS devices etc, who would probably leave otherwise.

It's similar to the hackintosh world - IF Apple made a Core i7 Mac with a socketed CPU, 4 ram slots, a couple of pci slots and no monitor, priced somewhat competitively with similar specced systems from HP etc, they'd probably have a problem with the hackintosh world. But, as it stands, hackintoshes aren't really a direct competitive choice to anything Apple currently sells, so they don't care about it.
 
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The Apple logo may be a big problem indeed. If the Mac EFI just make the card able to display that, and the logo itself is stored in somewhere else (e.g. Inside the firmware). Then what MVC does is nothing really related to the Apple logo.

However, if the logo itself is stored inside the EFI he "created", no matter the code is written by him or not, that's a protected trade mark, and he is not allowed to use.

So, anyone know where the logo store? I know nothing about EFI. But my understanding is that EFI is more like a "driver", and let the card able to function properly (to certain level). I suspect the Apple logo is stored in somewhere else. That's why we won't see the Apple logo when we boot to Windows.

If the logo is actually coded inside the EFI, no matter we boot to MacOS, Windows, or Linux, the logo should always be there. However, it's clearly not the case. So, I believe MVC didn't really "use" the Apple logo illegally. What he did is just make the card able to display that (the logo is there regardless if the card has EFI or not, but just we can't see if without EFI).

If am quite sure "the ability to see" is not controllled by the copyright law (or whatever it call). Otherwise, if I am a blind person, and a doctor fix my eye (give me the ability to see something that I natively can't do). The doctor breaks all the copyright law because making me "able to see" thousands of those trade mark?
 
Ya know, maybe I'm naive, but MVC's activities has certainly helped keep the 5,1 cMPs relevant in todays world despite the naysayers. And - do you think Nvidia would have written Pascal drivers for Sierra and heralded that fact so prominently in their blogs if it wasn't for MVC? I certainly do. Had it not been for MVC, I would still be running a GTX 780 in my 5,1.

I know it's created additional sales for Nvidia. Why is that not a good thing?

Lou
 
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