Status of SuperDuper! and Big Sur

[pommephone]

CCC is A+! I've been using it for 7+ years. Note however that at this time CCC can only clone the system volume on the initial backup, so if your OS version changes it will not be cloned on subsequent backups. CCC is working with Apple to hopefully resolve this. Here's the whole story from CCC:

CCC will not update the System volume on a Big Sur bootable backup​

Starting in macOS Big Sur, the system now resides on a cryptographically sealed "Signed System Volume"(link is external). That volume can only be copied using Apple's proprietary APFS replication utility ("ASR"). Right now, ASR will only copy whole volume groups (System and Data), we can't choose to clone just the System volume. As a result, every time an OS update is applied to the source, we would have to erase the whole destination volume (including any existing snapshots on that volume) just to update the system on the destination.

To avoid deleting your snapshots and the rest of your backup, CCC will not update the System volume on the destination when System updates are applied to the source.

We made a feature request to Apple in September 2019 (FB7328230) to allow ASR to clone just the System volume. Apple's APFS team acknowledged the request in June 2020 and clarified the requirements, and now we're waiting on the implementation.

Our recommendation: We recommend erasing the destination only for the purpose of establishing the initial bootable backup. CCC can then use its own file copier to maintain the backup of your user data, applications, and system settings. If you would like to update the OS on the backup volume, you can boot your Mac from the backup and apply any updates via the Software Update preference pane in the System Preferences application. This is not something that we anticipate you would need to do frequently, nor even proactively. You could apply updates before attempting to restore from the backup, for example, if that need ever arises.

 

[Apple_Robert]

For me, SD is a thing of the past.
If after 2 months not even a status notification is to be found, then I ask myself how seriously the developer develops his product and what importance he gives to his customers.
I have now got rid of SD and landed happily with CCC. Here you get 2 weekly update, you notice that further development work is done and feels appreciated as a customer.

Bye bye SD

Welcome to the club.

Carbon Copy Cloner: Where carbon emission is a good thing.

 

[MarkC426]

So even though this is a SuperDuper thread (of which I use), and many people are bad mouthing it over CCC being great.
CCC isn't able to do full incremental clones either....... 😝

 

[Mike Boreham]

So even though this is a SuperDuper thread (of which I use), and many people are bad mouthing it over CCC being great.
CCC isn't able to do full incremental clones either....... 😝

Correct. It is clear to me that Apple does not want third parties being able to copy the System Volume. Even Apple's own Time Machine only backups up the Data volume in Big Sur, and a TM restore uses the Data Volume backup as a migration source for a new System Volume install.

On Intel Macs (not M1) CCC can copy the System Volume using ASR for the first run of new back-up task, and thus create a bootable clone, but it can't update the System Volume thereafter.

None of this bothers me as I am not a fan of, and don't need bootable clones. But I do like having Data volume only clones from which to restore in emergency or migrate. Data volume only clones can be incrementally updated. If you need a bootable clone in an emergency you can install a System Volume on to it inside 30-40 minutes.

My prediction is that Data volume clones will become the norm, and I don't understand why SuperDuper! is not pushing this. CCC and SD will still be very useful apps.

 

[Airsculpture]

Slightly off topic re new CCC user.

I have made an initial bootable back of my external SSD which I use to boot my iMac. This was on 11.0.1
I have subsequently installed 11.1 on the SSD. Everything seems to be working and I have left it for over a week now to ensure no issues.
Can I now back up the 11.1 version of my SSD to the external back up drive I made my initial 11.0.1 bootable back up ?

 

[flowrider]

^^^^It's my understanding you can, if you erase the destination volume first. Whenever I back up a drive I erase the target drive, It has been my practice to erase it prior to making the clone.

Lou

 

[Airsculpture]

Wow that’s adds a few hours onto every back up 🤦🏻‍♂️

 

[MarkC426]

If/when SD/CCC supports normal cloning in Big Sur you should be able to do incremental updates, which only update changes to the volume (registered versions).

 

[mikzn]

Wow that’s adds a few hours onto every back up 🤦🏻‍♂️

that is a choice - you can do incremental back ups (a huge time saver and less stress on the CPU and SSD) - which I choose to do - both SD and CCC offer this as a main feature - I have never had a problem with the incremental back (CCC in my case) and yes I have had to use it to restore a recent failure on Mojave - 6 months ago

 

[Mike Boreham]

that is a choice - you can do incremental back ups (a huge time saver and less stress on the CPU and SSD) - which I choose to do - both SD and CCC offer this as a main feature - I have never had a problem with the incremental back (CCC in my case) and yes I have had to use it to restore a recent failure on Mojave - 6 months ago

Yes CCC can do incremental backups of the Data volume in Big Sur but it does not update the System Volume as explained earlier and in this CCC article:

CCC will not update the System volume on a Big Sur bootable backup​

Starting in macOS Big Sur, the system now resides on a cryptographically sealed "Signed System Volume"(link is external). That volume can only be copied using Apple's proprietary APFS replication utility ("ASR"). Right now, ASR will only copy whole volume groups (System and Data), we can't choose to clone just the System volume. As a result, every time an OS update is applied to the source, we would have to erase the whole destination volume (including any existing snapshots on that volume) just to update the system on the destination.

To avoid deleting your snapshots and the rest of your backup, CCC will not update the System volume on the destination when System updates are applied to the source.

We made a feature request to Apple in September 2019 (FB7328230) to allow ASR to clone just the System volume. Apple's APFS team acknowledged the request in June 2020 and clarified the requirements, and now we're waiting on the implementation.

Our recommendation: We recommend erasing the destination only for the purpose of establishing the initial bootable backup. CCC can then use its own file copier to maintain the backup of your user data, applications, and system settings. If you would like to update the OS on the backup volume, you can boot your Mac from the backup and apply any updates via the Software Update preference pane in the System Preferences application. This is not something that we anticipate you would need to do frequently, nor even proactively. You could apply updates before attempting to restore from the backup, for example, if that need ever arises.

This is why Flowrider chooses to erase before every back up. Effectively he is treating every backup as the initial back up, which backs up the System Volume . I don't believe SD can do this for Big Sur.

 

[mikzn]

Yes CCC can do incremental backups in Big Sur but it does not update the System Volume as explained earlier and in this CCC article:

CCC will not update the System volume on a Big Sur bootable backup​

Starting in macOS Big Sur, the system now resides on a cryptographically sealed "Signed System Volume"(link is external). That volume can only be copied using Apple's proprietary APFS replication utility ("ASR"). Right now, ASR will only copy whole volume groups (System and Data), we can't choose to clone just the System volume. As a result, every time an OS update is applied to the source, we would have to erase the whole destination volume (including any existing snapshots on that volume) just to update the system on the destination.

To avoid deleting your snapshots and the rest of your backup, CCC will not update the System volume on the destination when System updates are applied to the source.

We made a feature request to Apple in September 2019 (FB7328230) to allow ASR to clone just the System volume. Apple's APFS team acknowledged the request in June 2020 and clarified the requirements, and now we're waiting on the implementation.

Our recommendation: We recommend erasing the destination only for the purpose of establishing the initial bootable backup. CCC can then use its own file copier to maintain the backup of your user data, applications, and system settings. If you would like to update the OS on the backup volume, you can boot your Mac from the backup and apply any updates via the Software Update preference pane in the System Preferences application. This is not something that we anticipate you would need to do frequently, nor even proactively. You could apply updates before attempting to restore from the backup, for example, if that need ever arises.

This is why Flowrider chooses to erase before every back up. Effectively he is treating every backup as the initial back up, which backs up the System Volume . I don't believe SD can do this for Big Sur.

I don't have Super Duper - and this - is - a Superduper thread - IMHO

But there is this info on the CCC site

 

[Mike Boreham]

I don't have Super Duper - and this - is - a Superduper thread - IMHO

But there is this info on the CCC site

I only mentioned SD because you did. Yes it is an SD thread but many of the issues affect both. And SD is doing very little so comparisons get made.

The CCC link you gave is older than the one I quoted from, and does not contradict the one I gave. Yes CCC can make bootable clones but does not update the System volume after the initial clone.

 

[pommephone]

This sentence from the CCC documentation is an alternative to wiping the destination drive:

"If you would like to update the OS on the backup volume, you can boot your Mac from the backup and apply any updates via the Software Update preference pane in the System Preferences application."

I did this for a recent backup of 11.2 (20D64).

 

[Airsculpture]

That kinda defeats the object of having successfully updated your main drive and then take the chance of it screwing up your back up drive through an unsuccessful update

But hey, I appreciate the link. Hopefully soon, they will be able to increment the OS portion.

 

[MarkC426]

Just got an update to TechTool Pro with Big Sur support.
Don't know whether this includes an update to the cloning tool though, I am not on BS so can't check it.

 

[Mike Boreham]

Just got an update to TechTool Pro with Big Sur support.
Don't know whether this includes an update to the cloning tool though, I am not on BS so can't check it.

Micromat themselves recommend CCC or SD for making a bootable clone, rather than their own volume cloning tool. I doubt TTP 13.0.2 changes this. I didn't see a mention in the update notes.

https://www.micromat.com/component/kunena/techtool-pro-12/5420-techtool-s-cloning-tool-reliable

 

[flowrider]

Just got an update to TechTool Pro with Big Sur support.
Don't know whether this includes an update to the cloning tool though, I am not on BS so can't check it.

I posted this to this forum, back on page three:

Lou

 

[MarkC426]

Your right, sorry I remember reading that now..... 🤪

 

[Mike Boreham]

Dave Nanian put this out yesterday:

https://www.shirtpocket.com/blog/index.php/shadedgrey/comments/thats_big_sir_to_you/

Very much in line with what CCC is saying. Seems odd to me that he says in that article he wishes he had thought of that earlier, when CCC has been saying the same for some time. Maybe he means some SD only elements.

 

[Icevein]

Dave Nanian put this out yesterday:

https://www.shirtpocket.com/blog/index.php/shadedgrey/comments/thats_big_sir_to_you/

Very much in line with what CCC is saying. Seems odd to me that he says in that article he wishes he had thought of that earlier, when CCC has been saying the same for some time. Maybe he means some SD only elements.

Thanks. I had missed his latest post.

 

[mihirkamat]

I also purchased SD many years ago and have used it happily since. That being said, I think that the wait is just too long - I do want to maintain a clone. It doesn't have to be bootable, as long as I can migrate from it after a clean OS install.

So yesterday I finally installed CCC and love it. modern interface, pretty easy to use. and the scheduling works well - I've never been able to get SD to schedule properly. I'll likely purchase it once the free trial is over.

I'm surprised that Dave Nanian doesn't update SD more frequently. I've gotten 10 years of use out of my license and would happily pay for a once in a decade upgrade. But I am disheartened that the website looks like it's from 1995, and the interface hasn't been touched in forever.

For now I'm planning on sticking with CCC, and will happily pay for it as backups are critical functionality.

 

[flowrider]

^^^^Yep, me too. My SD license is newer, only a couple of years old. I too downloaded CCC yesterday and cloned my Big Sur boot drive. I still prefer the SD interface, but have bought a CCC license.

Lou

 

[mihirkamat]

I liked it so much that I also sprang for a license, 4 days into the free trial.
They actually have an academic discount, so picked it up for $29.99.

 

[Airsculpture]

Am I right in thinking you can't reinstall a clone of the OS from Time Machine, only your personal files ?

I'm now using an SSD clone with CCC which only took 10 mins to clone but I was considering Time Machine. However, if TM only restores personal files and you have to do a recovery installation, then I will stick with CCC.

Back up and restore your Mac

Learn how to back up and restore the contents of your Mac.

support.apple.com

 

[Mike Boreham]

Am I right in thinking you can't reinstall a clone of the OS from Time Machine, only your personal files ?

I'm now using an SSD clone with CCC which only took 10 mins to clone but I was considering Time Machine. However, if TM only restores personal files and you have to do a recovery installation, then I will stick with CCC.

Back up and restore your Mac

Learn how to back up and restore the contents of your Mac.

support.apple.com

Yes, a full disk Time Machine Restore installs a new System Volume and migrates the TM back up of your Data volume.

I don't see TM and CCC as an either/or situation. TM is worth having for its easy individual file restores and hourly backups. The fact that it also has full system restore capability gives you an alternative to CCC. When the worst happens, alternatives are good!

Both also have the very rapid snapshot restore capability, provided you have enabled Snapshots in CCC. (However if you use both as I do, I don't see much point in enabling CCC Snapshots as well). Note that in Big Sur, Snapshot restores do not roll back the system volume.