iPad Pro [Suggestion]: Don't Buy The M4 iPads

[klasma]

The reviews all suck.

First, I can't find any articles comparing the standard ipad, which is much cheaper.
Second, I can't find any mention of AI, not even barely on this thread, which is supposed to be the whole point.
We have to speculate that EVERYTHING will be using AI in the near future. In that scenario, slower devices are going to quickly become useless. I know that's hard to imagine, but you could have said the same thing about memory and GPUs. ALREADY I want to use AI all the time, but my laptop is hamstrung with no GPU, so I have to have network connectivity and loss of privacy to do anything with AI, which is pretty much anything these days.

I have a family member who's a student. Everyone in her class is making notes with their Apple Pencils. Since she'd only use AI for very mature consumer apps, which I expect to be rare on iOS for years,
I'm recommending to get the BASE ipad and Apple pencil, but with the most storage possible.

Does this make sense?

The base iPad has a poorer screen (not fully laminated, no AR coating), I personally would go for the 128 GB iPad Air rather than for the 256 GB base iPad, if the budget allows for it.

Regarding on-device AI, I wouldn’t base any purchase decisions on that at this point. The chances of it becoming truly capable in the near-term are rather uncertain even on the M4. I would assume that there will always be a workable cloud-based fallback, sufficiently privacy-preserving with Apple services. IMO it will take a couple of years for the eventual trajectory of AI tech to crystalize.

 

[klasma]

Given the sky high price they are charging for the new iPad pros, I am hoping that they are intending to open up Mac apps for iPad. That would make me buy it instantly

That’s not going to happen. It will only go in the other direction, iPad apps also working on a Mac.

 

[klasma]

On a personal level, I think iPadOS doesn't take advantage of M4's performance.

It’s specific apps that do, like photo and video processing, 3D modeling and so on. MacOS by itself also doesn’t take advantage of the M3’s performance, it’s apps that do.

I perfectly understand people being dissatisfied with the UI of iPadOS compared to macOS, and with the app selection. But that’s unrelated to the SoC, and the often-repeated argument “iPadOS can’t take advantage of the M-series performance” is nonsense.

 

[klasma]

Wasn’t it always actually 10.9”?

The iPad Pro was 11.0” since the design change (Face ID, flat edges) in 2018. The iPad Air since 2020 and then the iPad 10 (now the base iPad) is 10.9” (10.86”, to be more precise). The new iPad Pro is 11.1” (11.13”, to be more precise). The 11.0” size is now discontinued.

So at present:
Base iPad and iPad Air: 10.9”
iPad Pro M4: 11.1”

See also https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/ipad-chronology.2425989/.

 

[eltoslightfoot]

This sounds like an issue with those apps rather than one with Stage Manager. Apple could add all the features one could want - developers have to take advantage of them to make a difference.

Which they won't...and isn't an issue with a Mac desktop.

 

[eltoslightfoot]

Again, I am left with what I said months ago. A mac conforms to work the way I want to work. While I have to conform to the way an iPad wants me to work. That's fine if that is okay with y'all. I would rather be able to use Alfred to customize keyboard shortcuts to switch wifi networks with terminal and use BetterSnapTool to customize my snap settings for windows. Install VM software and install entirely different OSes. Different strokes...


Edited to add, I am just fine using my iPad Pro 12.9" as my companion device...it's just all that it will be compared to my mac for me.

 

[Ludatyk]

Again, I am left with what I said months ago. A mac conforms to work the way I want to work. While I have to conform to the way an iPad wants me to work. That's fine if that is okay with y'all. I would rather be able to use Alfred to customize keyboard shortcuts to switch wifi networks with terminal and use BetterSnapTool to customize my snap settings for windows. Install VM software and install entirely different OSes. Different strokes...


Edited to add, I am just fine using my iPad Pro 12.9" as my companion device...it's just all that it will be compared to my mac for me.

Understandable. And I would rather have a touch-screen device, OLED screen, thin and lightweight, cellular capabilities (must have) ... able to get a laptop-form factor out of it, and some dope Apple Pencil features. So, yeah... different strokes.

 

[eltoslightfoot]

Understandable. And I would rather have a touch-screen device, OLED screen, thin and lightweight, cellular capabilities (must have) ... able to get a laptop-form factor out of it, and some dope Apple Pencil features. So, yeah... different strokes.

Right and I get a touch-screen device, mini-LED screen, thin and lightweight, laptop form factor, and dope Apple Pencil 2 features (everything except the barrel roll and squeeze) in what I have right now as my companion device.

Then combine that with the M4 Macbook Pro coming out this fall with upgrades similar to what you are getting with that iPad. We will both be happy.

 

[unobtainium]

The iPad Pro was 11.0” since the design change (Face ID, flat edges) in 2018. The iPad Air since 2020 and then the iPad 10 (now the base iPad) is 10.9” (10.86”, to be more precise). The new iPad Pro is 11.1” (11.13”, to be more precise). The 11.0” size is now discontinued.

So at present:
Base iPad and iPad Air: 10.9”
iPad Pro M4: 11.1”

See also https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/ipad-chronology.2425989/.

Interesting. Does that mean the bezels have shrunk slightly on the M4? Nobody is mentioning that in the hands on previews but haven’t seen any full reviews yet.

 

[Branaghan]

The review everyone is waiting for

 

[off3nc3]

Burn in and image retention are not the same.

Image retention is temporary, goes away over time. Burn in is for life, think old Streetfighter 2 cabinets and electrified Blanka.

Had image retention once on my 2017 LG OLED after playing Stardew Valley for weeks non-stop. I quit playing, it went away. Never reoccured since. Nor has it happened on any other of the multiple OLED devices I use. Check out the YT video of the guy who left his Switch OLED on the same image for 2 years. It was 3,600 hours before it starting exhibit even minor issues on the SAME image.

The myths around burn in/image retention are lot like battery myths. Old and out of date knowledge based on early models. Yes, an OLED from 2015 might suffer from it, and the same channel logo may cause some image retention or even burn in eventually on new models, but only in extreme circumstances and unusual usage. Technology has evolved. There’s a guy I know at work who still drains his modern iPhone dead and then charges for 6 hours, convinced this is the right way to do it. Madness borne from ignorance and stubborness.

You must be out of the loop just check the reddit sub for amoled displays and you will see atleast a by-weekly burn-in reported from a 2K oled monitor.

This tech will never be viable long term for gamers or coders.

 

[bob24]

It’s specific apps that do, like photo and video processing, 3D modeling and so on. MacOS by itself also doesn’t take advantage of the M3’s performance, it’s apps that do.

I perfectly understand people being dissatisfied with the UI of iPadOS compared to macOS, and with the app selection. But that’s unrelated to the SoC, and the often-repeated argument “iPadOS can’t take advantage of the M-series performance” is nonsense.

Valid point about Apps being a cornerstone to fully utilising the hardware capability, but I think there is more nuance to it.

The OS also plays a role in unleashing the full power of the hardware, as it dictates how users can run Apps and what type of access those Apps have to hardware resources. From that perspective iOS is clearly more restrictive than macOS as Apps have more controlled access to system resources, and users have more limited capability to multitask, run background tasks, run custom code, etc.

This is all by design, and one can argue this is a valid compromise, but not doubt it reduces the ability for the user to max-out the hardware with more complex tasks.

 

[The Clark]

I bought it, and just for fun had the OP's name "Qithlorien" engraved on it. I'm such a stinker.

Pics of this PLEASE! 😂

 

[blkjedi954]

The old camera has more than what most people need.


They always do. It's a very specialty item, almost no one uses it save for those who really need it for some reason.


If you are asserting the new Tandem OLED (Apple's term for the stacked OLED panels) are going to burn in after Z number of hours then provide the data to back it up. OLEDs have changed quite a bit in recent years.

Tandem OLED is not Apple’s term. It’s industry standard term for the technology.

 

[AlexESP]

So that's why iPad sales are on a downfall since a good couple of years now, because like you said, we don't understand what an iPad Pro is...but what it is exactly then? It seems the vast majority of people don"t know what the real expensive iPads are made for.

iPad sales are not on a downfall since a couple of years. They have fallen since last year, when they didn’t get any update (and also after the end of covid). In fact, Mac sales have performed worse even when they got significant updates. Despite the narrative, Apple is probably more concerned about the Mac. Also, given they have a lower ASP, Apple sells many more iPad than Mac units.

2024 Q2 Apple Results: $90.8 billion revenue, Services record

Apple announced its financial results for its second fiscal quarter of 2024 on Thursday. The company booked $90.8 billion in revenue (down 4% versus the year-ago quarter) with $23.6 billion in prof…

sixcolors.com

 

[W£S]

That’s not going to happen. It will only go in the other direction, iPad apps also working on a Mac.

Apple does have a patent that allows iPad to work like a Mac when connected to a keyboard

So never say never

 

[eltoslightfoot]

iPad sales are not on a downfall since a couple of years. They have fallen since last year, when they didn’t get any update (and also after the end of covid). In fact, Mac sales have performed worse even when they got significant updates. Despite the narrative, Apple is probably more concerned about the Mac. Also, given they have a lower ASP, Apple sells many more iPad than Mac units.

2024 Q2 Apple Results: $90.8 billion revenue, Services record

Apple announced its financial results for its second fiscal quarter of 2024 on Thursday. The company booked $90.8 billion in revenue (down 4% versus the year-ago quarter) with $23.6 billion in prof…

sixcolors.com

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I don't think this chart says what you think it says? If these were overlayed the Mac would be 2 billion higher across the board. (or more?) Also can you show me where you saw the ASP confirmed on each set of devices? I am interested in this...

Okay, now that the numbers are out of the way, what do you hope to gain here. Say I am right (which I am it's in your chart), so what? Does that mean the iPad lineup is less valuable to you? Of course not. I say don't worry about how it is doing against wearables or the iPhone and just enjoy your device.

Because let's face it, Apple wants us to buy them all.

 

[MarkC426]

Well, I decided to get a 12.9" M2 iPad Pro at this moment in time....
Got a £200 reduction off RRP, so happy (£250 cheaper than M4).

Massive upgrade for me from my 1st gen iPad Pro....

 

[DeepSix]

From what I'm reading so far, it sounds like the new OLED iPad pros are worth the upgrade. I'm still going to check it out at best buy this week.

Two main factors for me.
1) much brighter and better screen
2) much better battery life

I couldn't care less about the thinner frame. Slightly lighter weight is nice to have too but I wouldn't upgrade just for this.

 

[kkee]

Apple rounded up .95 ram to call 16. Lmfao

I know I shouldn’t respond when someone make comments that does not make sense.

 

[LvO92]

It’s specific apps that do, like photo and video processing, 3D modeling and so on. MacOS by itself also doesn’t take advantage of the M3’s performance, it’s apps that do.

I perfectly understand people being dissatisfied with the UI of iPadOS compared to macOS, and with the app selection. But that’s unrelated to the SoC, and the often-repeated argument “iPadOS can’t take advantage of the M-series performance” is nonsense.

While individual apps play a big role, the OS is also important for fully leveraging the processor's capabilities. macOS is a more mature desktop OS that is more optimised for extracting maximum performance from the M-series chips compared to the mobile-first iPadOS. Additionally, while there are some powerful creative apps on iPad like Procreate and LumaFusion, the selection is still limited compared to desktop-class apps on macOS and Windows. Many pro-level apps used in fields like engineering, data science, game development, etc. are still not available on iPadOS.

 

[bcortens]

While individual apps play a big role, the OS is also important for fully leveraging the processor's capabilities. macOS is a more mature desktop OS that is more optimised for extracting maximum performance from the M-series chips compared to the mobile-first iPadOS. Additionally, while there are some powerful creative apps on iPad like Procreate and LumaFusion, the selection is still limited compared to desktop-class apps on macOS and Windows. Many pro-level apps used in fields like engineering, data science, game development, etc. are still not available on iPadOS.

This really misunderstands how software works.
At the levels where OS optimization matters (ex Accelerate framework, Metal, CoreML) iPadOS and macOS are almost identical. Where there are differences that matter (iPadOS memory limits and background processing limits) these limits do not actually limit the amount of the performance of the chip the App can access. If the App is in the foreground and able to stay within the maximum memory footprint then the OS will not hold back its performance.

The limitations on releasing other categories of Apps are twofold.

1. Technical limitations
   1. Background processing limits mean you have to either keep your app in the foreground (or in a stage that is in the foreground) or make sure the background processing is limited to about 3 minutes max
   2. No XPC, processes cannot talk to other processes which make some classes of Apps impossible
2. Policy limitations
   1. Apple wants everyone to use subscriptions and they want to maximize their monetization of all transactions that occur on iOS and iPad OS, this is a disincentive to pro software developers to bring their apps to iPadOS and is entirely something apple can fix if they are serious about making the iPad a more viable pro platform
   2. No upgrade pricing
   3. Apple encouraging a race to the bottom in pricing on iPadOS apps by making their own apps very cheap or free (iWork suite is free, FinalCut is $7/month, garage band and iMovie are free)
   4. Code compilation and JIT compilation apps are prohibited on iPadOS (for “security” reasons according to apple)

I’m sure I’ve missed a few policy limitations but there are really very few remaining technical limitations holding back developers from releasing high performance iPad Apps.

 

[LvO92]

This really misunderstands how software works.
At the levels where OS optimization matters (ex Accelerate framework, Metal, CoreML) iPadOS and macOS are almost identical. Where there are differences that matter (iPadOS memory limits and background processing limits) these limits do not actually limit the amount of the performance of the chip the App can access. If the App is in the foreground and able to stay within the maximum memory footprint then the OS will not hold back its performance.

The limitations on releasing other categories of Apps are twofold.

1. Technical limitations
   1. Background processing limits mean you have to either keep your app in the foreground (or in a stage that is in the foreground) or make sure the background processing is limited to about 3 minutes max
   2. No XPC, processes cannot talk to other processes which make some classes of Apps impossible
2. Policy limitations
   1. Apple wants everyone to use subscriptions and they want to maximize their monetization of all transactions that occur on iOS and iPad OS, this is a disincentive to pro software developers to bring their apps to iPadOS and is entirely something apple can fix if they are serious about making the iPad a more viable pro platform
   2. No upgrade pricing
   3. Apple encouraging a race to the bottom in pricing on iPadOS apps by making their own apps very cheap or free (iWork suite is free, FinalCut is $7/month, garage band and iMovie are free)
   4. Code compilation and JIT compilation apps are prohibited on iPadOS (for “security” reasons according to apple)

I’m sure I’ve missed a few policy limitations but there are really very few remaining technical limitations holding back developers from releasing high performance iPad Apps.

Point taken about the similarities between iPadOS and macOS, especially when it comes to their ability to take advantage of Apple's powerful silicon. However, I think the key differences is how these operating systems are designed to be used in practice.

While iPadOS doesn't necessarily limit an app's raw performance, the way it handles things like multitasking and inter-process communication can significantly impact how well the iPad works for professional workflows. The lack of features like XPC support isn't just a minor issue—it fundamentally changes what's possible on the platform.

Similarly, the policy limitations on iPadOS, such as those related to Apple's monetisation strategies, can help to shape the software ecosystem in ways that affect what developers are able and motivated to create.

In the end, it's about choosing the tool that's best suited for the task at hand. And in many professional contexts, that tool is still more likely to be a Mac.

 

[macguy167]

Never experienced bricking in my life, and I had literally every iPhone and iPad. Also no one in my circle of family and friends had such a disaster. You sir, are very unlucky!

Try another brand of phone or tablet. Samsung has a good assortment, although I actually had two bricking events with their early Notes. Luckily their software support has improved a lot in recent years.

I like Samsung TVs, but not much else! I have had problems on MBPs, iPhones, and iPads (all confirmed by Apple to be a HW/SW problem!). That's why I use Linux for the important stuff, MBP for some work. I've heard of others having the same problem, so it's not just me. 😳

 

[macguy167]

Sounds like PEBKAC. I have 40 years of many, many Apple products and never had a device brick nor have I ever observed "hardware/software longevity!!" issues. Not to say that it does not happen, because it does. But multiple times for one user is a red flag IMO.

It has happened twice (2x) of ALL the Apple products that I have bought over the years! Apple confirmed a HW problem. One replaced, one out-of-warranty, not such a red-flag as you postulate! I have been building, setting up, loading software, and doing maintenance on many types of computers, OSes, et al, and seen my share of "bad" HW, it happens!! And, your stupid insult "PEBKAC" was SAF!! And, your opinion is just that like an ah everyone has one! 🤣