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toke lahti

macrumors 68040
Apr 23, 2007
3,293
509
Helsinki, Finland
My conclusion is that what I was looking for does not exist.

In fact I have bought the Sonnet Echo 5. So I now have two power supplies, 100W for the Echo and another 140W for the MacBook, which is not currently used. This seems both a waste of materials and money (not to mention the MagSafe port) as the one with the Echo is not a cheap looking unit.

But my point remains; I did not need another power supply, simply a way of routing power directly to the peripherals without involving the MacBook's power system - I believe it is by using the MacBook for power distribution (especially in the heat of this summer) that my last MacBook only lasted just over two years and now has faults both in the battery and in the SMC.

So whether I need a hub or a dock is irrelevant. Is the Echo 5 a dock or a hub? It has power but a minimum of ports.

There is definitely, in my opinion, a market need for a powered hub (or dock) that uses the Mac PSU. A drawback of the Echo (and any other similar unit I believe) is that is won't work passively.
It is quite strange that these peripherals still don't have PD-usbc for power input.
Maybe there are some licensing fees?
 

81Tiger04

macrumors 6502
Aug 11, 2009
465
37
SC
I’m running 2 monitors on my new S2722QC monitors. The problem is that the included USB-C cable isn’t long enough for both monitors to connect to my M1 MBP. And it doesn’t seem to recognize Apple cables.

I need a 6’ cable. Does any know of a replacement cable that works?
 

dickiedunn

macrumors regular
Jun 7, 2019
120
2
I have a very simple litmus test. Plug in cable to a new Sandisk Extreme SSD. Does it give me 900 MB/sec read and writes? if so, it is 10G. Since we dont support 3.2 gen 2 (20 Gb/s), I don't care unless it is Thunderbolt4. And for Thunderbolt4 /USB4, I have a different drive Samsung X5. Does that cable offer me 2.7 Gig/sec reads.

Some cables are not advertised as 3.1 gen 2 but surely, they perform as such.
I've got a Sandisk Extreme SSD that I've plugged into the TB 4 port of my M2 MBA with the cable that came with it and I get only 380 MB/Sec speeds. So are you saying I could double the speed simply by buying a better cable? Why is it so slow?
 

whodiini

macrumors regular
Aug 16, 2021
157
63
Dirt cheap Thunderbolt 3 hub! $30 USPS priority shipping included.

Normally I would not post limited deals here, but because I have received very good advice on these forums, I am sharing a deal I found. I have no connection to the seller and have no financial interest in any company related to this.

The link is on ebay:

There are 3 left.

It is a TB3 hub, has one TB3 to your computer and 1 TB3 out. It also has 3 USB 3.1G2 10Gbit ports, 1 Gbit ethernet and SD, CF slots, and a 8k displayport, which means it has a modern intel chip. It has a huge power brick.

This no name hub I think is made by rocketek and relabeled.

I have been using a Rocketek version for the last several months on my Studio Max system with no issues. I have a 5k LG monitor connected to the passthru TB3 port, which then limits the available bandwidth remaining. I use that remaining bandwidth to connect to a sabrent USB C 3.1G2 NVMe drive and these 2 fill the 40Gbps bandwidth of a single TB3/4 port on the Studio Max.

It sleeps, wakes without issue. The only minor downside I have found is that the unit runs warm and when the Studio Max is turned off, it still pulls a few watts of power, unlike my TB4 hub from Caldigit.

I paid $70 for my used Rocketek and thought it was a good deal. $30 shipped is a screaming deal. The ebay ones do not come with a TB3 cable. Normally TB3 docks got for $250+.

I ordered one and am running it right now in place of my Rocketek. Works the same. Is the same.
 
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dickiedunn

macrumors regular
Jun 7, 2019
120
2
Thanks! I just ordered one on your suggestion. I'm hoping it will work well with my MBA M2. The challenge will be to see if I can run my old 30" cinema display via the display port. I know it's hit or miss and have all the dual link display adapters, etc... which I've gone over in another forum. I was able to get the display to work with an old OWC TB 2 dock, but everything else was painfully slow. I'm hoping this can replace that old TB2 dock and allow me to maybe, just maybe, run two monitors from a MBA. Wishful thinking, I know, but at $30 it's worth a shot (well $30 actually, as I need to order a TB3 cable).

That reminds me, any suggestions for a cheap TB 3 cable, or am I best to just get an Apple one so that I don't have to worry about incompatibility.
 

whodiini

macrumors regular
Aug 16, 2021
157
63
I believe all TB3 cables (unlike USB) have to be intel certified if they use the TB3. Also TB4 (USB-IF certified) ones should be good, Would make sure that the cables are certified.

Also, you may need a displayport adapter. The cinema 30 has a dual link adapter that has a mini-displayport and a USB A for 5V power. So you need a displayport to mini-displayport adapter that passes the proper resolution,
 

dickiedunn

macrumors regular
Jun 7, 2019
120
2
Dirt cheap Thunderbolt 3 hub! $30 USPS priority shipping included.

Normally I would not post limited deals here, but because I have received very good advice on these forums, I am sharing a deal I found. I have no connection to the seller and have no financial interest in any company related to this.

The link is on ebay:

There are 3 left.

It is a TB3 hub, has one TB3 to your computer and 1 TB3 out. It also has 3 USB 3.1G2 10Gbit ports, 1 Gbit ethernet and SD, CF slots, and a 8k displayport, which means it has a modern intel chip. It has a huge power brick.

This no name hub I think is made by rocketek and relabeled.

I have been using a Rocketek version for the last several months on my Studio Max system with no issues. I have a 5k LG monitor connected to the passthru TB3 port, which then limits the available bandwidth remaining. I use that remaining bandwidth to connect to a sabrent USB C 3.1G2 NVMe drive and these 2 fill the 40Gbps bandwidth of a single TB3/4 port on the Studio Max.

It sleeps, wakes without issue. The only minor downside I have found is that the unit runs warm and when the Studio Max is turned off, it still pulls a few watts of power, unlike my TB4 hub from Caldigit.

I paid $70 for my used Rocketek and thought it was a good deal. $30 shipped is a screaming deal. The ebay ones do not come with a TB3 cable. Normally TB3 docks got for $250+.

I ordered one and am running it right now in place of my Rocketek. Works the same. Is the same.
Following up on this. I received my dock and can report it seems to work with a few exceptions:

- The CF card slot will not accept CF cards from my Canon 5DmkII or other CF cards I have. They physically do not fit. I'm not sure what CF card this is designed for, but it doesn't work with the common CF cards used in cameras. The SD slot works as advertised.
- I'm having trouble with getting the Ethernet port to work. It will not recognize the signal. I'm not sure if that is on my end or the device. It finally did connect once, but when it did, I was not getting the full 900 Mbps rate I get when connected directly into my cMP ethernet port. It seems like this is slower. Again, this might be something I'm doing. I'm happy to hear any suggestions. I'm only getting 550 Mbps down and 395 Mbps up, vs the 920 Mbps up and down I normally get. Using a ethernet adapter connected directly to my MBA I'm getting my usual 930 Mbps, so it's definitely something with the dock having slower speeds.
- I cannot get it to recognize my 24" Apple Cinema Display with the Display Port adapter, despite that working when connected to my cMP into the Radeon RX580 graphics card same Display Port jack.

So, bottom line is it's pretty good, especially for $32 delivered, but unless I can get the ethernet port speed and Displayport to work, it might not be good enough.
 
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whodiini

macrumors regular
Aug 16, 2021
157
63
will check it out. suspect it needs an ethernet driver. I have a monitor that uses dual a dual dvi adapter so I can verify if it works with that.
 

dickiedunn

macrumors regular
Jun 7, 2019
120
2
Which Dual DVI Adapter are you using? I have the Apple one that goes to mini display port. From there I went through the Apple thunderbolt to thunderbolt 3 adapter. What do you mean by a ethernet driver?
 

whodiini

macrumors regular
Aug 16, 2021
157
63
I use an apple dual dvi that comes from a mini display port. I also have a displayport to mini displayport that I will test and connect that to the displayport output from the hub. Under the about this mac, ethernet devices, I see the apple ethernet and then I see a USB 10/100/1000 LAN, which is the one associated with the hub. The vendor is realtek and it shows the USB link speed as up to 5Gb/sec which is faster than Gbit ethernet. The default driver is com.apple.DriverKit.AppleUserECM. I know realtek has its own drivers. So first I will test the default apple driver speed and then if it is low, I willl upload the realtek driver and see if it changes,
 

drnemo

macrumors newbie
Dec 2, 2019
3
0
Hi all.
Does anybody have experience of using of CalDigit Element Thunderbolt 4 Hub on Mac mini M1 with two LG Ultrafine monitors? I mean 5k resolution for each as well.
With best regards...
 

EugW

macrumors G5
Jun 18, 2017
14,649
12,571
Hi all.
Does anybody have experience of using of CalDigit Element Thunderbolt 4 Hub on Mac mini M1 with two LG Ultrafine monitors? I mean 5k resolution for each as well.
With best regards...
I don't have experience with this, but the hub has somewhat of a reputation for overheating. I saw one reviewer who said hers ran really hot and eventually died in a few months, although the replacement is still alive. I saw another reviewer who said it damaged his desk from the heat.

Anyhow, with your requirements for two LG 5K Ultrafine monitors, that won't work regardless, because the M1 Mac mini doesn't support that.


Video Support​

  • Simultaneously supports up to two displays:
    One display with up to 6K resolution at 60Hz connected via Thunderbolt and one display with up to 4K resolution at 60Hz connected via HDMI
  • Thunderbolt 3 digital video output supports
    Native DisplayPort output over USB‑C
    Thunderbolt 2, DVI, and VGA output supported using adapters (sold separately)
  • HDMI display video output
    Support for one display with up to 4K resolution at 60Hz
    DVI output using HDMI to DVI Adapter (sold separately)
 
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Reactions: drnemo

drnemo

macrumors newbie
Dec 2, 2019
3
0
I don't have experience with this, but the hub has somewhat of a reputation for overheating. I saw one reviewer who said hers ran really hot and eventually died in a few months, although the replacement is still alive. I saw another reviewer who said it damaged his desk from the heat.

Anyhow, with your requirements for two LG 5K Ultrafine monitors, that won't work regardless, because the M1 Mac mini doesn't support that.


Video Support​

  • Simultaneously supports up to two displays:
    One display with up to 6K resolution at 60Hz connected via Thunderbolt and one display with up to 4K resolution at 60Hz connected via HDMI
  • Thunderbolt 3 digital video output supports
    Native DisplayPort output over USB‑C
    Thunderbolt 2, DVI, and VGA output supported using adapters (sold separately)
  • HDMI display video output
    Support for one display with up to 4K resolution at 60Hz
    DVI output using HDMI to DVI Adapter (sold separately)
Thanks a lot.
WBR
 

whodiini

macrumors regular
Aug 16, 2021
157
63
Following up on this. I received my dock and can report it seems to work with a few exceptions:

- The CF card slot will not accept CF cards from my Canon 5DmkII or other CF cards I have. They physically do not fit. I'm not sure what CF card this is designed for, but it doesn't work with the common CF cards used in cameras. The SD slot works as advertised.
- I'm having trouble with getting the Ethernet port to work. It will not recognize the signal. I'm not sure if that is on my end or the device. It finally did connect once, but when it did, I was not getting the full 900 Mbps rate I get when connected directly into my cMP ethernet port. It seems like this is slower. Again, this might be something I'm doing. I'm happy to hear any suggestions. I'm only getting 550 Mbps down and 395 Mbps up, vs the 920 Mbps up and down I normally get. Using a ethernet adapter connected directly to my MBA I'm getting my usual 930 Mbps, so it's definitely something with the dock having slower speeds.
- I cannot get it to recognize my 24" Apple Cinema Display with the Display Port adapter, despite that working when connected to my cMP into the Radeon RX580 graphics card same Display Port jack.

So, bottom line is it's pretty good, especially for $32 delivered, but unless I can get the ethernet port speed and Displayport to work, it might not be good enough.

OK. Tested it with my M1 mac mini. First, the Apple dual DVI display adapter.
I connected the hub to my M1 mac mini using a passive .7M TB3 cable. I connected my displayport cable to the dock. The other end is a Apple mini-displayport, which I connected to the Apple Dual DVI display adapter. The monitor kept trying unsuccessfully to sync. To verify everything was working, I moved the displayport cable over to my CableMatters 201046 USB C to Displayport/ethernet/USB 2 dongle. And it worked with the dual displayport adapter to provide the proper resolution to my display. Next I went back to the hub setup but this time I connected the hub to my M1 mac mini using the Apple .8m passive TB3 cable. And the display worked! I then tried with a another 1m TB3 cable. That also worked. Went back to the passive .7m TB3 cable. Didnt work.

So the hub WILL drive the Cinema Display with the Apple Dual DVI displayport adapter. You need a proper TB3 cable (apple works). Also you need a displayport to mini displayport. I used this one $8: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003N3DTKY/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Ethernet:
I looked on about this mac and looked at the ethernet port from the hub. It said the GBit was active. Everything seemed to work OK. I did not test it using iperf3 to find out the actual speed. I am wondering if you had a bad TB3 cable, if it would also cause slow ethernet.... BTW, there are 40Gbps and 20Gbps Tb3 cables out there. I bought ONE apple TB3 cable just so I can debug connections. Apple is expensive, but apple products tend to work. The .7m TB3 passive cable that did not work came with one of the accessories (TB3 external NVMe case). I find less than half the cables made in China from no-name brands dont work reliably,.
 
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dwig

macrumors 6502a
Jan 4, 2015
907
449
Key West FL
I believe all TB3 cables (unlike USB) have to be intel certified if they use the TB3. Also TB4 (USB-IF certified) ones should be good, Would make sure that the cables are certified.
...
This was the case, but things have changed. Intel has released the TB3 spec and certification to the USB-IF consortium and it is now a component of the USB4 spec. Intel does retain TB4 and does the certification for TB4 components. I do agree that cables should be certified, either TB4 by Intel or USB4 by the USB-IF.
 

EugW

macrumors G5
Jun 18, 2017
14,649
12,571
This was the case, but things have changed. Intel has released the TB3 spec and certification to the USB-IF consortium and it is now a component of the USB4 spec. Intel does retain TB4 and does the certification for TB4 components. I do agree that cables should be certified, either TB4 by Intel or USB4 by the USB-IF.
At this point I usually wouldn't buy any TB3 cables, only TB4 cables.

Specifically, active TB3 cables don't work properly with some TB4 devices, even if those active cables are TB3 certified.
 

dickiedunn

macrumors regular
Jun 7, 2019
120
2
OK. Tested it with my M1 mac mini. First, the Apple dual DVI display adapter.
I connected the hub to my M1 mac mini using a passive .7M TB3 cable. I connected my displayport cable to the dock. The other end is a Apple mini-displayport, which I connected to the Apple Dual DVI display adapter. The monitor kept trying unsuccessfully to sync. To verify everything was working, I moved the displayport cable over to my CableMatters 201046 USB C to Displayport/ethernet/USB 2 dongle. And it worked with the dual displayport adapter to provide the proper resolution to my display. Next I went back to the hub setup but this time I connected the hub to my M1 mac mini using the Apple .8m passive TB3 cable. And the display worked! I then tried with a another 1m TB3 cable. That also worked. Went back to the passive .7m TB3 cable. Didnt work.

So the hub WILL drive the Cinema Display with the Apple Dual DVI displayport adapter. You need a proper TB3 cable (apple works). Also you need a displayport to mini displayport. I used this one $8: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003N3DTKY/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Ethernet:
I looked on about this mac and looked at the ethernet port from the hub. It said the GBit was active. Everything seemed to work OK. I did not test it using iperf3 to find out the actual speed. I am wondering if you had a bad TB3 cable, if it would also cause slow ethernet.... BTW, there are 40Gbps and 20Gbps Tb3 cables out there. I bought ONE apple TB3 cable just so I can debug connections. Apple is expensive, but apple products tend to work. The .7m TB3 passive cable that did not work came with one of the accessories (TB3 external NVMe case). I find less than half the cables made in China from no-name brands dont work reliably,.
Some updates. I purchased the displayport to mini displayport adaptor you recommended and it works! The only issue is the brightness keys don't seem to work on the display, which is a bummer. It works on both my 30" Cinema Display and my smaller 24" one. But I can't seem to get it to work at the same time as my 5k Apple Studio Display. I believe that might be an issue with the M2 MBA. I was hoping this dock might be a work around, but I guess not. Any ideas on how I might be able to get that to work?

Re; the ethernet port. There's definitely something on the dock's ethernet port that is throttling the speed. I tried attaching the ethernet cable, via some dongles to the thunderbolt port on the dock and it gets the full 930 Mbps up/down speeds. But when connected directly to the ethernet port on the dock, I'm still stuck around 490 Mbps downs and 348 Mbps up. I'm not willing to give up the speed I'm paying for and don't want to use the only thunderbolt port on this dock for ethernet, so I'm not sure what to do.
 

whodiini

macrumors regular
Aug 16, 2021
157
63
The apple 5k brightness issue is an OS issue. Google it. Nothing to do with the hub.

Look at your system report under Ethernet. It should have a usb 10/100/1000 LAN. Vendor name is Realtek. Look at the driver. If it says com.apple.driver kit it is using an apple driver. Look at the link speed. If it says 5Gb/sec that is faster than Gbit Ethernet.

Possible causes: wrong or bad cable. R u using the same cable that gives Gbit? Software configuration. Is the config in settings for the Ethernet the same?
 

whodiini

macrumors regular
Aug 16, 2021
157
63
Afterthought - you could get a USB to Gbit ethernet for $15, plug and play
or while u are at it, get a USB to 2.5Gbit ethernet for a little more (need cables, switches that pass 2.5Gbit
 

whodiini

macrumors regular
Aug 16, 2021
157
63
Another thought
Re; the ethernet port. There's definitely something on the dock's ethernet port that is throttling the speed. I tried attaching the ethernet cable, via some dongles to the thunderbolt port on the dock and it gets the full 930 Mbps up/down speeds. But when connected directly to the ethernet port on the dock, I'm still stuck around 490 Mbps downs and 348 Mbps up. I'm not willing to give up the speed I'm paying for and don't want to use the only thunderbolt port on this dock for ethernet, so I'm not sure what to do.
Try attaching the dongle that you have to the USB C port on the back of the dock!
 

dickiedunn

macrumors regular
Jun 7, 2019
120
2
Thanks. The dongle combo I have is an apple ethernet to thunderbolt2 dongle. That goes into an Apple thunderbolt 2 to 3 adapter. When I plug that into the Dock’s thunderbolt port I get the full 930 Mbps speed. When I plug it into the USB C port, it says it can’t read it because it’s thunderbolt, so no luck. It must be something with the Realtek ethernet port or the Apple driver that it’s using that is throttling it to 500 Mbps. It’s definitely a bummer as that is a key feature I need and it said it can do that speed. I’m not seeing it though.
 

whodiini

macrumors regular
Aug 16, 2021
157
63
If you want to risk $15, get the TP link adapter I posted earlier. I have one and it also works fine for me.
 
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