Surely Apple has employees who read these forums...

[Flint Ironstag]

To deal with the problem Apple created, I basically built a "wind tunnel shelf", that hides the entire mess and keeps everything at safe operating temps. (actually got a 5-10% performance increase with the tunnel shelf).

So instead of a brilliant shiny thing of awesome on my desk as Apple engineers foolishly envisioned, my mac pro is completely hidden from view.

Clearly (I say sarcastically), Apple has learned from the trashcan experience. This time they're going to take the best Desktop in the world, paint it black, remove an "i" and add "pro" to the end of it.

May we see pics of this wind tunnel shelf please?

 

[shaunp]

I purchased a Mac Pro 6,1 new from Apple directly two weeks ago!

As outdated as the D700s are, they still out perform the best supported nVidia option (titan-x maxwell) in my use. Also, as outdated as the 12-core Xeon E5-2697 v2 is, it still performs extremely well - for what I do anyways. That AND, RAID and outboard rec.2020 video boards over TB2 work as well as needed.

While the D700/1TB/12-core works extremely well, the lower variations perform quite poorly - I'm looking at you D300 and D500!

While I appreciate Apple has silently upgraded the internals since launch (1TB SSD is 50% faster), they really should offer a offer a GPU upgrade program. It's painstaking how gimped the D300 is. And if you end up with a nMP w/ the dreaded D300 or a shoddy D500, all you can do is sell the whole Mac on eBay and buy another one with D700s installed!


Am I extremely pissed Apple has all but divorced itself from the Mac Pro? A Big F'n YES!

As "interesting" as the Mac Pro is, it is a perfect example of Apple's dilemma, especially post Jobs - they refuse to make what "we want" or address "our needs".

All we want/need is another big cheesegrater, w/ dual sockets, plenty of room for full length cards, and tons of internal drives - all running OSX.

Instead Apple gave us a "spaghetti" mess of wires running everywhere, and when the pros complained they couldn't put their expensive PCIe cards in it, they all but buried the Mac Pro - then shuttered the automation "pro" team, eliminated the dedicated OSX team by merging it with the iOS team, and renamed OSX to maxOS.

Courage, truly.

To deal with the problem Apple created, I basically built a "wind tunnel shelf", that hides the entire mess and keeps everything at safe operating temps. (actually got a 5-10% performance increase with the tunnel shelf).

So instead of a brilliant shiny thing of awesome on my desk as Apple engineers foolishly envisioned, my mac pro is completely hidden from view.

Clearly (I say sarcastically), Apple has learned from the trashcan experience. This time they're going to take the best Desktop in the world, paint it black, remove an "i" and add "pro" to the end of it.

I ditched mine because I couldn't see a future in the platform that would meet my requirement and I wanted to get some of my investment back. The Mac Pro is still a very nice machine, nothing else on the market compares, but it is sooooo out of date. Personally I think what is the current Mac Pro should just be the Mac, and the Pro should have a tower form factor. That way we would have something between the mini and the Pro (that's not an iMac), and those of us who need the higher-end kit would have somewhere to go other than replacing Macs with a PC.

 

[Asgorath]

I purchased a Mac Pro 6,1 new from Apple directly two weeks ago!

As outdated as the D700s are, they still out perform the best supported nVidia option (titan-x maxwell) in my use. Also, as outdated as the 12-core Xeon E5-2697 v2 is, it still performs extremely well - for what I do anyways. That AND, RAID and outboard rec.2020 video boards over TB2 work as well as needed.

Can you describe your usage case in more detail? Are you comparing the 2 D700s to a single TITAN X?

 

[Chancha]

Can you describe your usage case in more detail? Are you comparing the 2 D700s to a single TITAN X?

When I saw that in his post I thought it was a typo. We are talking about 11 vs 4 flops and 12 vs 6GB.

 

[Phil in ocala]

I had switched to macOS almost exclusively for the last couple of years, but forced myself back to Windows even on my Apple hardware, just to break the 'addiction' - just because Apple just isn't making the products I want. The only way for them to get the message is to vote with your feet.

Unfortunately I feel Apple are so arrogant they'll just think people aren't buying Macs because of changing markets or change in customer habits.. not because they're failing to release new hardware, and failing to produce the machines that their customers actually want to buy.

____________________________________________
Apple knows by reading MacRumors that the real demand by users is more EMOJES.....nothing else matters...

 

[H2SO4]

[doublepost=1483507264][/doublepost]These forums have zero bearing on what Apple does. If you want to send feedback you HAVE (no exceptions) to go to Apple.com/feedback and provide it there.

Feedback needs to be submitted in an orderly way that is searchable and catalogued.

That’s a load of rubbish. If you think that’s the only place Apple consider feedback you’re living in cloud cuckoo land. Apple tell you that you have to go there and will outwardly appear to ignore feedback from others sources, this is so they have a better chance to manage it but I guarantee you they take other input on board.

 

[zedsdeadbaby]

The core problem is this: there is a clear disjoint between the traditional productivity and workflow centric professionals such as broadcasters or desktop publishers, vs the newer breed of web based content creator crowd. Apple's problem is that they chose to pretty much abundant the former and embrace the latter, without being vocal on the transition.

Frickin millennials

 

[chrono1081]

That’s a load of rubbish. If you think that’s the only place Apple consider feedback you’re living in cloud cuckoo land. Apple tell you that you have to go there and will outwardly appear to ignore feedback from others sources, this is so they have a better chance to manage it but I guarantee you they take other input on board.

So you've never worked in any kind of IT or Software development. Got it.

It's not rubbish at all, its how its done. If you knew what life was like on the receiving end of these kind of requests you'd know why a legit feedback system is needed. If you've ever used the feedback system like I have many times you'd understand why it was needed.

 

[H2SO4]

So you've never worked in any kind of IT or Software development. Got it.

It's not rubbish at all, its how its done. If you knew what life was like on the receiving end of these kind of requests you'd know why a legit feedback system is needed. If you've ever used the feedback system like I have many times you'd understand why it was needed.

I repeat. What you stated earlier is rubbish. What I stated is fact.
It’s no different from an IT department saying raise a help desk ticket instead of phoning. It doesn’t mean they’ll ignore any other kind of request because they DON’T.
Re-read my last sentence from earlier.

 

[magicMac]

Surely Apple has employees who read these forums... right?? I don't see how there's any way Apple doesn't know what consumers want in their products... So why the heck doesn't Apple just make the products we want already? I'm so sick of Apple ignoring our wants and needs.

This is all I'm asking for:

• A Mac Pro with a tower-like design (similar to the the pre-2013 Mac Pros).
• Up to 128 GB RAM (and user-upgradeable)
• GTX 1080 or Titan Pascal graphics card options
• A non-proprietary SSD, and plenty of room to add my own SSDs later
• PCI-e slots for expandability

THAT'S IT! That's all we want! Just make it happen. It seriously can't be that hard to make a product like this....

In fact, if you're really so adamantly against making the Mac Pro that everyone wants, please let me make it myself. All you need to to is give me permission to install macOS, and give me Nvidia Pascal drivers.

In the meantime, I'm really enjoying my new, custom-built Windows PC. But I'm really, really, really missing macOS. It's so much better than Windows!

Thunderbolt is basically external PCIe. You don't need PCIe expansion slots because the Mac Pro has 6 thunderbolt ports ! The fact is, most professional mac hardware is using thunderbolt now, can't see what would be gained by going back to clunky internal slots.

 

[steveOooo]

Thunderbolt is basically external PCIe. You don't need PCIe expansion slots because the Mac Pro has 6 thunderbolt ports ! The fact is, most professional mac hardware is using thunderbolt now, can't see what would be gained by going back to clunky internal slots.

You save on extra plug sockets and noise by having everything in one tidy box.

I have a 4tb graid which I hate using because it's so noisy.

 

[s-hatland]

can't see what would be gained by going back to clunky internal slots.

options? upgrade path? speed?

also, as mentioned above, what's clunky about having expansion inside a neat, tidy box. to me, it seems clunkier to have cables and power adapters and boxes strewn about...

 

[Chicane-UK]

Thunderbolt is basically external PCIe. You don't need PCIe expansion slots because the Mac Pro has 6 thunderbolt ports ! The fact is, most professional mac hardware is using thunderbolt now, can't see what would be gained by going back to clunky internal slots.

Clunky? Internal? Does not compute.

 

[briloronmacrumo]

Surely Apple has employees who read these forums... right?? I don't see how there's any way Apple doesn't know what consumers want in their products...

Apple's compartmentalized ( paranoid about security ) internal communications seems to throttle knowledge about what other parts of their own company are doing. Assumptions that employees are actively and consistently following external Apple blogs seems flawed. Best chance to get their attention is:

• Send feedback directly at http://www.apple.com/feedback
• Vote with your wallet

 

[Jack Burton]

The fact is, most professional mac hardware is using thunderbolt now, can't see what would be gained by going back to clunky internal slots.

Clunky? I seem to remember adding drives to my classic Mac pro without tools. Slide them in on those gorgeous trays all in a row, and I didn't have to fool with sata cables and power cables like I do on my frankenstein PC.

Damn, the cMP was so nice.

 

[cryonicjim]

Surely Apple has employees who read these forums... right?? I don't see how there's any way Apple doesn't know what consumers want in their products... So why the heck doesn't Apple just make the products we want already? I'm so sick of Apple ignoring our wants and needs.

This is all I'm asking for:

• A Mac Pro with a tower-like design (similar to the the pre-2013 Mac Pros).
• Up to 128 GB RAM (and user-upgradeable)
• GTX 1080 or Titan Pascal graphics card options
• A non-proprietary SSD, and plenty of room to add my own SSDs later
• PCI-e slots for expandability

THAT'S IT! That's all we want! Just make it happen. It seriously can't be that hard to make a product like this....

In fact, if you're really so adamantly against making the Mac Pro that everyone wants, please let me make it myself. All you need to to is give me permission to install macOS, and give me Nvidia Pascal drivers.

In the meantime, I'm really enjoying my new, custom-built Windows PC. But I'm really, really, really missing macOS. It's so much better than Windows!

Former employee here (retail, but visited HQ a few times). They don't care. I really wish I could say otherwise, but they don't. Sometimes they'll take minor input on things like software features, but they take years and literal tens of thousands of requests to be noticed. But nothing gets in the way of the corporate "vision" for how they want their products to be used. That worked out relatively well a decade ago, when the vision was of computers that were sleek, but still powerful and versatile- A tool for media creators. The vision has changed. Its about making the laptop for someone who wants to be seen pulling it out of a $5000 Gucci bag. The desktop that doesn't clash with your artisan glass and reclaimed wood desk.

They're not interested in the pro user anymore. Its the luxury market they want.

 

[ssgbryan]

Thunderbolt is basically external PCIe. You don't need PCIe expansion slots because the Mac Pro has 6 thunderbolt ports ! The fact is, most professional mac hardware is using thunderbolt now, can't see what would be gained by going back to clunky internal slots.

That thunderbolt port is about 1/4 the speed of a SATA port - so I'd say one would gain speed. With all of the externals, one has multiple points of failure added - so I'd say one would gain reliability.

When the nmp came out I figured I would have to drop a minimum of $1,500 to replace the missing functionality. 2 4-bay external expansion boxes (1 for backup, since there wasn't a thunderbolt to esata dongle at the time, 1 for the 8TB of data) and a dock (to connect all of my peripherals). $6,100. And that was before bumping up the memory, which at the time would been another $450, $6,550USD.

TCO fail.

 

[Chancha]

Thunderbolt is basically external PCIe. You don't need PCIe expansion slots because the Mac Pro has 6 thunderbolt ports ! The fact is, most professional mac hardware is using thunderbolt now, can't see what would be gained by going back to clunky internal slots.

LOL...

1) Thunderbolt even after 10 years, its version 3 is only barely reaching PCI lane speeds a few years ago. And the Mac Pro only has TB2
2) Regardless, if you have a 10k dollar PCI card that you specifically need for a task, you need a computer with PCI slots
3) combine 1) and 2); external TB PCI enclosures do not provide required bandwidth to be an adequate replacement
4) the "fact" is that most professional hardwares are still being made in the form of a PCI card, and the related industries are forced to move away from the mac ecosphere just because of that
5) the few vendors who decided to invest in TB like BlackMagic is seriously being hurt by that decision now
6) finally you got one thing right, Apple "can't see what would be gained by going back to" its roots of serving the creative professionals crowd.

 

[telequest]

Apple's compartmentalized ( paranoid about security ) internal communications seems to throttle knowledge about what other parts of their own company are doing. Assumptions that employees are actively and consistently following external Apple blogs seems flawed. Best chance to get their attention is:

• Send feedback directly at http://www.apple.com/feedback
• Vote with your wallet

Thanks for the handy link. Folks, rather than debate whether or not Apple employees read these forums (who knows for sure?), why not just do both ... click the link and express yourself directly to Apple (I just did) ... and voice your concerns here as well.

 

[Plato65]

But nothing gets in the way of the corporate "vision" for how they want their products to be used. That worked out relatively well a decade ago, when the vision was of computers that were sleek, but still powerful and versatile- A tool for media creators. The vision has changed. Its about making the laptop for someone who wants to be seen pulling it out of a $5000 Gucci bag. The desktop that doesn't clash with your artisan glass and reclaimed wood desk.

They're not interested in the pro user anymore. Its the luxury market they want.

The problem, though, is how something gets established as luxury. A big part of Apple's cool image has always come from being the brand used by the cool artists and content creators. Apple is now too big to be just associated with media creators but it's also too big to be an exclusive luxury brand. There are a lot more Mac laptops out there than there are $5000 Gucci bags.

 

[aaronhead14]

...can't see what would be gained by going back to clunky internal slots.

Well, firstly, external PCIe cases are "clunky," NOT internal PCIe slots.
Secondly.... I'll just leave this right here, and I'll assume you're intelligent enough to get my point.

 

[Chancha]

The problem, though, is how something gets established as luxury. A big part of Apple's cool image has always come from being the brand used by the cool artists and content creators. Apple is now too big to be just associated with media creators but it's also too big to be an exclusive luxury brand. There are a lot more Mac laptops out there than there are $5000 Gucci bags.

Your observation may very well falls exactly parallel with Apple's execs' line of thinking, as in, they are not ready to ditch the creatives altogether, yet the chic hipsters are not exactly a safe bet of the next loyal customer base either. The more instrumental side of the problem is why a company with such emphasis on the future and how technology helps building it, would be caught in such a situation.

They have more than enough resource to explore on multiple fronts of technology, probably can afford to fail if they try something too drastic. Dropping Airport products when mesh networking is the thing now. Pulling out of display business when stream service and high-res delivery are exploding every second. Refusing to merge desktop computer and touch together when they clearly have the upper hand in already being good at doing both. I am seriously curious on what the hell is even on their roadmap now, look at the scale of the Campus 2, what jaw dropping quantum leap are they focusing on that requires cutting out all those not-so-dead meat.

On the flip side, what we have seen is minimal. Taking away a headphone jack is already dubbed a courageous move by themselves... if they were convinced of the the direction then it should not need to be justified, the product will speak for itself. Apple now is a bloated ship cruising in the middle of the ocean, letting waves pushing it instead of putting up a sail and reach for the unknown.

 

[Plato65]

Your observation may very well falls exactly parallel with Apple's execs' line of thinking, as in, they are not ready to ditch the creatives altogether, yet the chic hipsters are not exactly a safe bet of the next loyal customer base either. The more instrumental side of the problem is why a company with such emphasis on the future and how technology helps building it, would be caught in such a situation.

They have more than enough resource to explore on multiple fronts of technology, probably can afford to fail if they try something too drastic. Dropping Airport products when mesh networking is the thing now. Pulling out of display business when stream service and high-res delivery are exploding every second. Refusing to merge desktop computer and touch together when they clearly have the upper hand in already being good at doing both. I am seriously curious on what the hell is even on their roadmap now, look at the scale of the Campus 2, what jaw dropping quantum leap are they focusing on that requires cutting out all those not-so-dead meat.

On the flip side, what we have seen is minimal. Taking away a headphone jack is already dubbed a courageous move by themselves... if they were convinced of the the direction then it should not need to be justified, the product will speak for itself. Apple now is a bloated ship cruising in the middle of the ocean, letting waves pushing it instead of putting up a sail and reach for the unknown.

Apple is certainly exploring multiple avenues, but it's unclear what is coming out:

1) iPhone sales have declined for three quarters. We'll know how well the latest holiday season and iPhone 7 launch went when sales figures are released at the end of this month. As always, there are conflicting reports on how well the holiday sales went.

2) iPad sales have been shrinking for three years straight.

3) There are confilicting reports on the success of Apple Watch, but it doesn't appear to be the breakaway success that iPhone and iPad (initially) were. The sales figures are buried in the "Other" category in Apple statements and that category shrank 22% year-on-year in the latest quarter.

4) Apple did extensive research on entering the TV business, but decided against it. Apple TV seems to be in fourth place after Roku, Google, and Amazon. Maybe something bigger will come out.

5) There are new HomeKit products coming, but Amazon's Alexa seems to be the hottest thing in this area right now, judging by everything happening at CES. Amazon is pushing Alexa to cars too to compete directly with Apple's CarPlay.

6) Apple's plan for a car were refocused on a self-driving system, but that field is getting very competitive with other companies that are more experienced in AI.

7) Apple Music is growing and could prove to be a good business.

 

[magicMac]

Just so people are aware of the facts. PCIe 2.0 / thunderbolt 2 has a per-lane throughput of 5GT/s per lane, which gives us 500MB/s of actual data transfer per lane, and since each thunderbolt 2 port has 4 lanes, each port is capable of 2GBytes/sec usable (faster than SATA, obviously, and also why the internal storage uses PCIe instead of SATA). Thunderbolt 3 doubles the usable rate to 4Gbytes/sec. Each thunderbolt port can also supply 15W of power. With internal PCI cards on the Mac Pro before 2012 you are limited to the 3 slots available and what the power supply can deliver to these devices, in contrast external expansion with external power sources where necessary (very few cases) is not limited to the power supply of the tower. In addition, external expansion can be daisy chained and there are 6 thunderbolt / external PCI-e ports to begin with (including the dual GPUs, the 2013 Mac Pro is using all 40 PCI-e lanes provided by the workstation CPU). For the record, the Mac Pro before 2013 did not have a blu-ray drive or a volume control inside. It's time to accept change and move on guys.

 

[Plato65]

Just so people are aware of the facts. PCIe 2.0 / thunderbolt 2 has a per-lane throughput of 5GT/s per lane, which gives us 500MB/s of actual data transfer per lane, and since each thunderbolt 2 port has 4 lanes, each port is capable of 2GBytes/sec usable.

(Newbie warning) Sorry, what am I missing here? The Barefeats tests show cMPs PCIe 2.0 x4 card can do 5GB/s:
http://barefeats.com/hard220.html