Surface Devices

[kazmac]

As I've said there's likely some other issue. Problem with W10 is that it's very open nature requires the user to have a higher level of knowledge as anything can be installed which may or may not negatively effect the system. My systems range from a lowly i3 with intel integrated GPU to hex core i7 with Nvidia GTX 1070 non stutter, equally I took time to set them up, nor do I install any applications without some level of research. Most importantly they are always fully backed up.

IMO one of the biggest culprits is AV, I only use what comes with W10 and follow up with manual on demand scans by standalone applications (Emsisoft & Kaspersky) that don't hook into the OS. I'm also mindful of what running in the background. It's all a learning curve, equally a solid investment. I'm now far more productive on W10, equally it didn't happen overnight

Beauty of W10 is it's open nature and the vast software catalogue. Recently a colleague asked how I was completing technical reports so quickly, so I showed him. His response was "but your not using MS Office" I replied exactly It's all out there...

Q-6

at the Office comment. I understand it will take time to learn how to wrangle Windows10 and the machine itself (Impatient me will just have to deal with that).

This whole experience has been quite good for me. I learned no one device can do everything, and patience is required. Just trying to figure out where else I can test Asus and RoG laptops.

If not getting killed walking across a major highway to get to a Microcenter was an option, I’d happily try.

 

[SDColorado]

As I've said there's likely some other issue. Problem with W10 is that it's very open nature requires the user to have a higher level of knowledge as anything can be installed which may or may not negatively effect the system. My systems range from a lowly i3 with intel integrated GPU to hex core i7 with Nvidia GTX 1070 non stutter, equally I took time to set them up, nor do I install any applications without some level of research. Most importantly they are always fully backed up.

IMO one of the biggest culprits is AV, I only use what comes with W10 and follow up with manual on demand scans by standalone applications (Emsisoft & Kaspersky) that don't hook into the OS. I'm also mindful of what running in the background. It's all a learning curve, equally a solid investment. I'm now far more productive on W10, equally it didn't happen overnight

Beauty of W10 is it's open nature and the vast software catalogue. Recently a colleague asked how I was completing technical reports so quickly, so I showed him. His response was "but your not using MS Office" I replied "exactly" It's all out there...

Q-6

I would have to agree with you that it likely some other issue. I have a SP5, which is very much under-specced compared to the newer SP6, and I can honestly say in the 18 months of owning it that I have ever had it lag or freeze. Personally speaking I would buy a SP6 to replace my 5 in a heartbeat if I had even the slightest inkling the wife would go for it and will in all likelihood buy a SB3 if it has the specs I want

Oddly enough (or perhaps unsurprisingly), the laptop I do that freezes occasionally while browsing the web is my MBP when using Safari, but I have no doubt that is a Safari issue.

Regarding Dark Mode, Windows Dark Mode is definitely not as polished as MacOS Dark Mode. I am okay with that as I think it is fugly in either OS, but that is personal preference

YouTube App? I use TubeCast. It works well for me, perhaps partially because it casts well to my Sony TV and Chromecast. It also works with Philips, LG, Sony, Panasonic, Sharp, Toshiba and others.

Not sure why the bad Windows 10 / Surface experiences, but have to say I really do love mine. I will definitely be buying another soon.

Edit: My wife will be getting one first though. She also loves my SP5 and wants a black SP6

 

[kazmac]

I would have to agree with you that it likely some other issue. I have a SP5, which is very much under-specced compared to the newer SP6, and I can honestly say in the 18 months of owning it that I have ever had it lag or freeze. Personally speaking I would buy a SP6 to replace my 5 in a heartbeat if I had even the slightest inkling the wife would go for it and will in all likelihood buy a SB3 if it has the specs I want

Oddly enough (or perhaps unsurprisingly), the laptop I do that freezes occasionally while browsing the web is my MBP when using Safari, but I have no doubt that is a Safari issue.

Regarding Dark Mode, Windows Dark Mode is definitely not as polished as MacOS Dark Mode. I am okay with that as I think it is fugly in either OS, but that is personal preference

YouTube App? I use TubeCast. It works well for me, perhaps partially because it casts well to my Sony TV and Chromecast. It also works with Philips, LG, Sony, Panasonic, Sharp, Toshiba and others.

Not sure why the bad Windows 10 / Surface experiences, but have to say I really do love mine. I will definitely be buying another soon.

Edit: My wife will be getting one first though. She also loves my SP5 and wants a black SP6

That’s great.

I really like the Surfaces too. I am just not familiar with Windows. What are the odds that every single demo unit I tried in two different stores a half mile apart had the same freezing issue with MS Word?!? That would be every laptop or 2-in-1 that wasn’t a Surface btw.

I have nothing against the Surface hardware though - it’s just awesome. I think it’s not knowing the OS and -in my case- presuming it works like macOS (which I know isn’t true).

 

[SDColorado]

That’s great.

I really like the Surfaces too. I am just not familiar with Windows. What are the odds that every single demo unit I tried in two different stores a half mile apart had the same freezing issue with MS Word?!? That would be every laptop or 2-in-1 that wasn’t a Surface btw.

I have nothing against the Surface hardware though - it’s just awesome. I think it’s not knowing the OS and -in my case- presuming it works like macOS (which I know isn’t true).

Not sure. That is also pretty weird. Word is one of my most frequently used apps every day. Isn't the version of Word that comes free on Windows 10 machines different than the Office 365 versions? I am not sure but I do subscribe to Office 365 and I also opted for the Insider (beta) program as well as opted for the 64-bit versions. They do allow you to download either the 32-bit or 64-bit versions when you subscribe to Office 365. I am guessing the free version is maybe not the same.

Edit: Looking at it further I believe the free version that comes pre-installed on Windows machines is Office 2016 rather than Office 365? But Office 2016 did not freeze on the Surface? Maybe MS included some optimizations for Surface devices?

 

[kazmac]

Not sure. That is also pretty weird. Word is one of my most frequently used apps every day. Isn't the version of Word that comes free on Windows 10 machines different than the Office 365 versions? I am not sure but I do subscribe to Office 365 and I also opted for the Insider (beta) program as well as opted for the 64-bit versions. They do allow you to download either the 32-bit or 64-bit versions when you subscribe to Office 365. I am guessing the free version is maybe not the same.

I have no idea what version it was beyond being a demo. Each of the machines froze while I was typing a test phrase in Word.

I have the mystic gift of Bork...

 

[SDColorado]

I have no idea what version it was beyond being a demo. Each of the machines froze while I was typing a test phrase in Word.

I have the mystic gift of Bork...

Hahaha. Now that's a possibility that I won't even try to argue. Perhaps try to be more Björk and less Bork?

I can't recall for sure what was on my Surface Pro when I purchased it, but I am pretty sure it was Office 2016.

That was replaced by Office 365 the first day since I got a bundle deal with it as part of a promotion. You can try Office 365 for I believe 2 months free? But certainly at least a month free and see if it still freezes. I find Office 365 works well on both my Surface and my Macs. Since you can install Office 365 on up to 5 PC's or Macs it works well us.

 

[SteveJUAE]

Frankly I am a bit surprised by some of the recent comments especially on apps.

It seems some are stuck in thinking in mobile OS terms and and not full OS

Personally I'm all in W10 2 in 1's etc to get away from the shackles of mobile platforms and inferior apps and swapping between OS's

I fully embrace different footprints for different uses but not OS's. For every one or two little issues in thinking on dual OS's there is 1000's of pro's for sticking with a full OS

Once you break the chains of familiarity by ditching Android and IOS tablets these trivial niggles disappear and your free to move forward as the temptation of old habits of picking up something for just one app or two is broken

Poor apps is not an indication of a poor Laptop/Tablet etc and given choices on a full OS with greater variety of solutions is a strength without the familiar entrapment on some parts of mobile ECO's

Besides you can still get your fix from your smartphone

 

[SDColorado]

Frankly I am a bit surprised by some of the recent comments especially on apps.

It seems some are stuck in thinking in mobile OS terms and and not full OS

Personally I'm all in W10 2 in 1's etc to get away from the shackles of mobile platforms and inferior apps and swapping between OS's

I fully embrace different footprints for different uses but not OS's. For every one or two little issues in thinking on dual OS's there is 1000's of pro's for sticking with a full OS

Once you break the chains of familiarity by ditching Android and IOS tablets these trivial niggles disappear and your free to move forward as the temptation of old habits of picking up something for just one app or two is broken

Poor apps is not an indication of a poor Laptop/Tablet etc and given choices on a full OS with greater variety of solutions is a strength without the familiar entrapment on some parts of mobile ECO's

Besides you can still get your fix from your smartphone

I don't disagree with any of that. It took me a while to get past that when I first picked up the Surface Pro. Initially, I was thinking "Wow, the Microsoft App store is really kind of pathetic compared to the IOS App store," but then came around to the thinking that you really don't need apps and found Windows programs to use instead.

 

[SteveJUAE]

I don't disagree with any of that. It took me a while to get past that when I first picked up the Surface Pro. Initially, I was thinking "Wow, the Microsoft App store is really kind of pathetic compared to the IOS App store," but then came around to the thinking that you really don't need apps and found Windows programs to use instead.

Exactly

Sorry if I sounded a bit over critical but that's also the problem of having old devices lying around theirs a temptation to use them and so fire up old comparisons on trivial points. Its a bit like muscle memory once you form new habits the others are soon forgotten

Whilst MS apps store is there its best to use it sparingly and not bother to compare to other mobile store apps

Comments on lag and stuttering too

You would of thought we were discussing mobile phones not laptops/2 in 1's

When I go from my work Dell laptop to my SB2 or my Go I do not consider or have to consider alternative apps even my most used apps on my phone are the same as my laptops

 

[kazmac]

Hahaha. Now that's a possibility that I won't even try to argue. Perhaps try to be more Björk and less Bork?

I can't recall for sure what was on my Surface Pro when I purchased it, but I am pretty sure it was Office 2016.

That was replaced by Office 365 the first day since I got a bundle deal with it as part of a promotion. You can try Office 365 for I believe 2 months free? But certainly at least a month free and see if it still freezes. I find Office 365 works well on both my Surface and my Macs. Since you can install Office 365 on up to 5 PC's or Macs it works well us.

The bold is an idea I can get behind, my weird level is almost Björk. I think W10 laptops quake in fear when I come near.

To be fair, the parallax and lag using HP’s pen in Paint 3D had nothing to do with me.

I am pretty sure I have Office 365.

 

[SDColorado]

The bold is an idea I can get behind, my weird level is almost Björk. I think W10 laptops quake in fear when I come near.

To be fair, the parallax and lag using HP’s pen in Paint 3D had nothing to do with me.

I am pretty sure I have Office 365.

If you are paying an annual subscription fee you do. Office 365 is $69.99 per year for personal (1 user/computer) and $99.99 per year for Home (6 users/computers). Office 2016 and now 2019 are a one time purchase.

 

[Dave245]

Frankly I am a bit surprised by some of the recent comments especially on apps.

It seems some are stuck in thinking in mobile OS terms and and not full OS

Personally I'm all in W10 2 in 1's etc to get away from the shackles of mobile platforms and inferior apps and swapping between OS's

I fully embrace different footprints for different uses but not OS's. For every one or two little issues in thinking on dual OS's there is 1000's of pro's for sticking with a full OS

Once you break the chains of familiarity by ditching Android and IOS tablets these trivial niggles disappear and your free to move forward as the temptation of old habits of picking up something for just one app or two is broken

Poor apps is not an indication of a poor Laptop/Tablet etc and given choices on a full OS with greater variety of solutions is a strength without the familiar entrapment on some parts of mobile ECO's

Besides you can still get your fix from your smartphone

I dissagree, apps are brilliant and important, for example I use Pixelmator Pro on the iPad Pro and there isn’t an app for that on the Windows store. You mention switching between OS’s but using Pixelmator Pro on the iPad Pro and then on the Mac is great, I can easily edit an image on my iMac and then pick up where I left off on the iPad Pro when I’m on the go, I can’t do that with the Surface (unfortunately).

A full OS is fine if you have things to back it up, for example the Mac App Store. The Windows store doesn’t have half as many programs that I can use on the Mac or even iPad, to me that’s dissapointing.
[doublepost=1548513197][/doublepost]

Comments on lag and stuttering too

I don’t know what you mean by this, but I have experienced it when using the Surface, not every time and not for long but it is noticeable when coming from an iPad Pro and Mac that have never done that (in my experience).

 

[kazmac]

I dissagree, apps are brilliant and important, for example I use Pixelmator Pro on the iPad Pro and there isn’t an app for that on the Windows store. You mention switching between OS’s but using Pixelmator Pro on the iPad Pro and then on the Mac is great, I can easily edit an image on my iMac and then pick up where I left off on the iPad Pro when I’m on the go, I can’t so that with the Surface (unfortunately).

A full OS is fine if you have things to back it up, for example the Mac App Store. The Windows store doesn’t have half as many programs that I can use on the Mac or even iPad, to me that’s dissapointing.
[doublepost=1548513197][/doublepost]

I don’t know what you mean by this, but I have experienced it when using the Surface, not every time and not for long but it is noticeable when coming from an iPad Pro and Mac that have never done that (in my experience).

Agreed. I had stuttering on both Surface devices and every W10 laptop I tried yesterday (yes, those were demos with demo software).

I would happily try if there was a Procreate clone for Windows. Concepts looks brilliant, but it’s vector based, not raster.

There are times when a full blown OS and software are needed, but in talking about the W10 tablet mode and PCs that take advtange of that, it’s not a reality. When PC and software makers toute the the tablet and do not deliver, it is frustrating. As I said, I know now no one device will do everything I want. So it is not worth it to me to get a 2-in-1.

I am glad folks have adapted and find their Surfaces etc. great.

I find this discussion interesting, but also frustrating. As I haven’t found Windows software that does what I need.

 

[SDColorado]

The Windows store doesn’t have half as many programs that I can use on the Mac or even iPad, to me that’s dissapointing.

I am not sure what you mean by this. The Windows Store doesn't have any programs that you can use on the Mac or iPad. Or do you mean Windows versions of Mac Programs? Dunno.

The thing with the Mac App Store is that Apple has sucked everyone into thinking they need an App store because people have gotten so used to that format from the iPad/iPhone where you have literally no other choice but to download an App.

But most of the "Apps" in the MacOS App store are really just programs that can be downloaded directly from the program developers and in some cases that is the preferable way to get them. I find in some cases the App store versions are not updated as often or don't have the means to an upgrade pricing path from the devs like direct download does.

It is a part of Apples philosophy to make Mac more IOS like in look and feel. The problem that it creates is you start to think in terms of "all apps must come from the App store" and you don't take the time to look elsewhere for them.

Granted Pixelmator isn't available for Windows, but is it really that brilliant an app? It is arguably only the 3rd or 4th best app for photo editing in the App Store for iPad or Mac. Of course, it is a matter of personal opinion which is why I state arguably, but Affinity is much better and is cross-platform. There are versions for Mac/PC/iPad.

I don't want to put words into Steve's mouth, but I believe the point he was making is that there is really no need for an App store except for a platform that is limited to the point where an App is your only alternative.

Cyberlink Photo Director is another good program. Where is the App for that? What about an App for Capture One Pro?

Aside from Photography, what about Quicken? Mint is not an alternative. I use SFREF, not app for it. My wife uses Dentrix, no app for it.

Agreed. I had stuttering on both Surface devices and every W10 laptop I tried yesterday (yes, those were demos with demo software).

I am not sure what you are calling "stuttering" so that is hard to troubleshoot over a verbal description, but high-resolution displays such as the Surface, MacBook Pro Retina, 4K displays from other manufacturers have relatively poor response times. So they can have the appearance of "stuttering" when scrolling, moving the pointer, etc.

The newer iPads have a high response time due to the ProMotion technology. But if you are sensitive to "stuttering" due to response time, you might want to consider looking at some of the 1080p 144Hz models as well and see if that doesn't resolve the issue.

Some comparative response times. Surface Pro 6 slightly better than 2018 MBP, but nowhere near the Asus Zepherus or Razer Blade 15

Response Time Grey 50% / Grey 80% = Razer Blade 15" 17.2, Asus Zepherus 6.6, 2018 MacBook Pro 43.2, Surface Pro 6 42

 

[Dave245]

I am not sure what you mean by this. The Windows Store doesn't have any programs that you can use on the Mac or iPad. Or do you mean Windows versions of Mac Programs? Dunno.

The thing with the Mac App Store is that Apple has sucked everyone into thinking they need an App store because people have gotten so used to that format from the iPad/iPhone where you have literally no other choice but to download an App.

But most of the "Apps" in the MacOS App store are really just programs that can be downloaded directly from the program developers and in some cases that is the preferable way to get them. I find in some cases the App store versions are not updated as often or don't have the means to an upgrade pricing path from the devs like direct download does.

It is a part of Apples philosophy to make Mac more IOS like in look and feel. The problem that it creates is you start to think in terms of "all apps must come from the App store" and you don't take the time to look elsewhere for them.

Granted Pixelmator isn't available for Windows, but is it really that brilliant an app? It is arguably only the 3rd or 4th best app for photo editing in the App Store for iPad or Mac. Of course, it is a matter of personal opinion which is why I state arguably, but Affinity is much better and is cross-platform. There are versions for Mac/PC/iPad.

I don't want to put words into Steve's mouth, but I believe the point he was making is that there is really no need for an App store except for a platform that is limited to the point where an App is your only alternative.

Cyberlink Photo Director is another good program. Where is the App for that? What about an App for Capture One Pro?

Aside from Photography, what about Quicken? Mint is not an alternative. I use SFREF, not app for it. My wife uses Dentrix, no app for it.

Sorry I mean that the Surface and Windows doesn’t have half as many apps that IOS and Mac have. The reason apps are so popular I think is because they are all in one place, go onto the App Store and download YouTube for example, no fumbling around trying to find a developer page or way to download an app that might have a virus or something.

Pixelmator is brilliant in my opinion, I use it daily on both my iMac and iPad Pro, if I could of used it on my Surface and had all the devices sync together so that I could work on a project/image across all of those devices it would of been great. The reason I find myself going back to the iPad Pro is that it’s simply a better tablet, all the apps I use work really well and without issues. The Surface doesn’t have a YouTube app, the Netflix app for some reason lags behind (for example I can be watching something and the audio is out of sync with the persons mouth), iTunes really doesn’t work well and often crashes or is laggy.

It’s a shame because I was using my Surface for a while and it seemed to be going great, but Microsoft have gone in a completely different dictection to Apple and i’m afraid to say that I can see why Apple didn’t make a 2 in 1 device. The Surface is a good laptop for typing and blog posts I love it, but it’s not a good tablet in my opinion not even close to the iPad. It’s a real shame because I really wanted to love it for the first month or so I did.
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Agreed. I had stuttering on both Surface devices and every W10 laptop I tried yesterday (yes, those were demos with demo software).

I would happily try if there was a Procreate clone for Windows. Concepts looks brilliant, but it’s vector based, not raster.

There are times when a full blown OS and software are needed, but in talking about the W10 tablet mode and PCs that take advtange of that, it’s not a reality. When PC and software makers toute the the tablet and do not deliver, it is frustrating. As I said, I know now no one device will do everything I want. So it is not worth it to me to get a 2-in-1.

I am glad folks have adapted and find their Surfaces etc. great.

I find this discussion interesting, but also frustrating. As I haven’t found Windows software that does what I need.

I agree with this, and as much as I don’t want to say it I do think I was wrong! I can definitely see now why Apple haven’t made a 2 in 1 and were right all along. It’s very difficult to perfect a 2 in 1. Stuttering a lag is very frustrating when you’re use to Apple hardware which has none of that whatsoever, at least in my past experience.

 

[SDColorado]

Sorry I mean that the Surface and Windows doesn’t have half as many apps that IOS and Mac have. The reason apps are so popular I think is because they are all in one place, go onto the App Store and download YouTube for example, no fumbling around trying to find a developer page or way to download an app that might have a virus or something.

Pixelmator is brilliant in my opinion, I use it daily on both my iMac and iPad Pro, if I could of used it on my Surface and had all the devices sync together so that I could work on a project/image across all of those devices it would of been great. The reason I find myself going back to the iPad Pro is that it’s simply a better tablet, all the apps I use work really well and without issues. The Surface doesn’t have a YouTube app, the Netflix app for some reason lags behind (for example I can be watching something and the audio is out of sync with the persons mouth), iTunes really doesn’t work well and often crashes or is laggy.

It’s a shame because I was using my Surface for a while and it seemed to be going great, but Microsoft have gone in a completely different dictection to Apple and i’m afraid to say that I can see why Apple didn’t make a 2 in 1 device. The Surface is a good laptop for typing and blog posts I love it, but it’s not a good tablet in my opinion not even close to the iPad. It’s a real shame because I really wanted to love it for the first month or so I did.

I agree and I think we are saying basically the same thing. The reason why the App store is so popular is because it is a one-stop shop and people like that format. But I also think it limits people from looking "outside the box" where there are sometimes better alternatives to be found and the "App" versions for iPad often have severe limitations due to the OS and despite the names being the same, lack the functionality of the non-App versions.

Of course, the Apps work well for iPad, because they are made for iPad and IOS, but they also have their own iPad/IOS limitations that full-featured versions do not. Often times that comes in the form of RAM image handing, file system, export options, etc.

Pixelmator. Not saying it is a bad program/app, just saying I don't think it is the best either. But we all have our preferences and whatever works best for an individual makes it the best for them

YouTube App I don't miss in Windows. I did download TubeCast Pro for some occasions where I need to do casting and in general, it works better, works better with my TV specifically, and has more features than the Mac YouTube App.

I have not experienced the same issues with Netflix. Are you sure it is the App and not some other issue? My wife and I use the Netflix App frequently in the summer while sitting outside with the dogs and BBQ'ing. Not had any syncing issues.

Now the HBO Now App in Chrome on my TV... don't get my started hahaha

iTunes... again a matter of opinion, but I think iTunes sucks and haven't used it in probably 6 years

Not sure I agree with your sentiment on MS and Apple though. Of all the Apple devices I have, most I love and use. The iPad to me at least, is by far the least used of all. A bedside consumption device for the most part. I really DO wish Apple would have done something better with it. I can't see myself buying another until they do. Same with my wife, she is an self professed Apple fanatic, but she wants a Surface Pro and not a new iPad to replace her 5 year old one. She only uses hers as a bedside device as well.

 

[Queen6]

TBH the last place I look for applications is the Microsoft Store as there's no need and the variety of applications out there for Windows is immense. Apple wants to lock everyone into it's store as it takes a cut of everything simple as that. I don't need anyone to veto applications for me, nor do I want functionality to be cut.

Q-6

 

[SDColorado]

TBH the last place I look for applications is the Microsoft Store as there's no need and the variety of applications out there for Windows is immense. Apple wants to lock everyone into it's store as it takes a cut of everything simple as that. I don't need anyone to veto applications for me, nor do I want functionality to be cut.

Q-6

^^^ This is what I was trying to say in an earlier post. When I first purchased my Surface Pro 5, my initial reaction to the lack of apps was a disappointment. How could the MS app store be so bad? It was a bit of an adjustment period to get away from the "convenience" of that one-stop shop and actually look elsewhere for the programs I needed to fit tmy needs. There is a wealth of quality software out there, much of it with no "app" equivalent or downloadable from the dev without going through an "App store," but I had to rethink the way I had grown accustomed to doing things.

That said I *hate* the App Store changes Apple made to Mojave. I guess having it all in one place as they did in Sierra was just a little too convenient? Or were people just really that confused about them being together and they had to divide them back out again?

 

[Dave245]

TBH the last place I look for applications is the Microsoft Store as there's no need and the variety of applications out there for Windows is immense. Apple wants to lock everyone into it's store as it takes a cut of everything simple as that. I don't need anyone to veto applications for me, nor do I want functionality to be cut.

Q-6

^^^ This is what I was trying to say in an earlier post. When I first purchased my Surface Pro 5, my initial reaction to the lack of apps was a disappointment. How could the MS app store be so bad? It was a bit of an adjustment period to get away from the "convenience" of that one-stop shop and actually look elsewhere for the programs I needed to fit tmy needs. There is a wealth of quality software out there, much of it with no "app" equivalent or downloadable from the dev without going through an "App store," but I had to rethink the way I had grown accustomed to doing things.

That said I *hate* the App Store changes Apple made to Mojave. I guess having it all in one place as they did in Sierra was just a little too convenient? Or were people just really that confused about them being together and they had to divide them back out again?

I don’t think it’s about locking people in, i think the App Store works well and is popular because it’s one place people can go to get apps. That may be a game, a photo editing app or just some content consumption like Netflix or YouTube.

I also find the quality of apps are much better on the Mac and iOS App Store, for whatever reason that is I don’t know. For example I use not only Pixelmator Pro but also Final Draft and it’s something I have to have working brilliantly as it’s software I use for my career, the app on iOS and Mac is a lot better than Windows. I really think Microsoft need to put some more effort into their store, otherwise why have it?

I like the changes to the Mac App Store, it makes it look more up to date and the different tabs make it even easier to find an app. Each to their own I guess.

 

[Queen6]

I don’t think it’s about locking people in, i think the App Store works well and is popular because it’s one place people can go to get apps. That may be a game, a photo editing app or just some content consumption like Netflix or YouTube.

I also find the quality of apps are much better on the Mac and iOS App Store, for whatever reason that is I don’t know. For example I use not only Pixelmator Pro but also Final Draft and it’s something I have to have working brilliantly as it’s software I use for my career, the app on iOS and Mac is a lot better than Windows. I really think Microsoft need to put some more effort into their store, otherwise why have it?

I like the changes to the Mac App Store, it makes it look more up to date and the different tabs make it even easier to find an app. Each to their own I guess.

Sorry I disagree Apple is locking users in as it's in Apple's own benefit. Personally I far prefer a more open approach, ultimately Apple is not the Dev it just provides a hosting service, therefore the same software should be openly available and far more. For the majority my needs mobile Apps are generally too limiting, as I said MS Store holds little interest as W10 is an open OS and one can deal with the Devs directly.

Personally I'm fine with the "Surface" approach as my tablet usage is generally limited to consumption, barring notes & mark-ups. There's more than enough app's out there to fulfil that need, nor can any iPad run the full fat applications that I need.

Is it perfect? No, equally Microsoft is heading in a good direction, while Apple is forcing segregation to ensure further hardware & software sales...

Q-6

 

[Dave245]

Sorry I disagree Apple is locking users in as it's in Apple's own benefit. Personally I far prefer a more open approach, ultimately Apple is not the Dev it just provides a hosting service, therefore the same software should be openly available and far more. For the majority my needs mobile Apps are generally too limiting, as I said MS Store holds little interest as W10 is an open OS and one can deal with the Devs directly.

Personally I'm fine with the "Surface" approach as my tablet usage is generally limited to consumption, barring notes & mark-ups. There's more than enough app's out there to fulfil that need, nor can any iPad run the full fat applications that I need.

Is it perfect? No, equally Microsoft is heading in a good direction, while Apple is forcing segregation to ensure further hardware & software sales...

Q-6

Yea Apple is doing things for their own benefit, they are a business. But I also think the approach works well, otherwise why would it be so popular? There has to be a reason why the iPad and iPad Pro have been popular devices over the years. I’m not saying that Microsoft’s approach is bad, I jus think that thr Surface isn’t a good tablet AND computer, I think it’s a good computer for everyday tasks, blogging and so on.

But it doesn’t really solve the problem for people like me who wanted it to replace both the iPad Pro and MacBook Pro, if it can’t replace both, I might as well of kept iPad and MacBook Pro in the first place. Microsoft need to do some work on making it both a great tablet AND computer in my opinion.

I think the iPad Pro will continue to develop, for example full Photoshop is coming to the iPad Pro later this year, if Apple can bring other Pro and full programmes like Final Cut Pro X and so on they will nail it big time.

 

[SDColorado]

I don’t think it’s about locking people in, i think the App Store works well and is popular because it’s one place people can go to get apps. That may be a game, a photo editing app or just some content consumption like Netflix or YouTube.

I also find the quality of apps are much better on the Mac and iOS App Store, for whatever reason that is I don’t know. For example I use not only Pixelmator Pro but also Final Draft and it’s something I have to have working brilliantly as it’s software I use for my career, the app on iOS and Mac is a lot better than Windows. I really think Microsoft need to put some more effort into their store, otherwise why have it?

I like the changes to the Mac App Store, it makes it look more up to date and the different tabs make it even easier to find an app. Each to their own I guess.

Yeah, I have to say I honestly don't like it at all. Even trying to find your previously purchased Apps is something that they decided to add another level of complexity to that just wasn't necessary. MacOS these days seems to be all about dumbing down the interface to the lowest common denominators. That's OK for most I suppose, many just IOS simplicity, but they don't even implement that well when they add complexities into the dumbing down process.

I do not suggest Apple is locking people into to using the App store, but rather than it tends to make users lock themselves in. As mentioned, there are often better alternatives to Apps, if people are just willing to spend the time looking for them. But the App Store is kind of like shopping at a Big Box store for all your needs, when other companies may be making better products not found in the Big Box Store. Why does MS have an App store? I believe it is mostly a holdover from the Windows Phone days. Another example where a device is tied to an App store, because there are literally no alternatives to the apps.

As you say, to each their own, but to me, this is just further IOSifacation of MacOS.

 

[SteveJUAE]

I don't want to put words into Steve's mouth, but I believe the point he was making is that there is really no need for an App store except for a platform that is limited to the point where an App is your only alternative.

Close enough but sometimes the little app is just neat, simple and functional. its useful if there is a full OS version

I see why Dave has both missed my point and yet proved it and I can now understand why we have been seeing some strange comments

There is some confusion as some call all prog's Apps and MS also have an app like store but really these are often simple progs or utilities that resemble mobile apps as in you DL them via a store. Whilst MS store has some 800k apps this is just a fraction of software available for windows.

All the worlds leading full featured progs run on full OS, regardless of profession or task in hand etc etc. games etc etc Due to Windows dominance worldwide they simply have the most progs, that does not say others like MacOS or Lynix etc also do not have some fine progs and unique ones but they are not dominant.

I think your right many simple get confused or do not realize the wealth of software out there that exists outside typical mobile app stores. Whilst these stores amidst the 95% of crap have some useful stuff many due to leading titles have scaled down versions of their full progs available.

With a big dose of over generalization mobile apps are the poorer cousins of full OS progs that are also designed to run with Mouse and trackpad and touch in many cases.

When you run a full OS on a 2 in 1 or tablet the mobile app store content is somewhat irrelevant when you have a wealth of better and more feature rich alternatives. More important is all the software a mobile platform can't handle.

 

[SDColorado]

I agree with this, and as much as I don’t want to say it I do think I was wrong! I can definitely see now why Apple haven’t made a 2 in 1 and were right all along. It’s very difficult to perfect a 2 in 1. Stuttering a lag is very frustrating when you’re use to Apple hardware which has none of that whatsoever, at least in my past experience.

As for stuttering, again 2018 MBP has worse response time than even the SP6 and if you are scrolling quickly it is very noticeable, almost dizzying. But perhaps we are not talking about the same thing.

 

[Dave245]

Yeah, I have to say I honestly don't like it at all. Even trying to find your previously purchased Apps is something that they decided to add another level of complexity to that just wasn't necessary. MacOS these days seems to be all about dumbing down the interface to the lowest common denominators. That's OK for most I suppose, many just IOS simplicity, but they don't even implement that well when they add complexities into the dumbing down process.

I do not suggest Apple is locking people into to using the App store, but rather than it tends to make users lock themselves in. As mentioned, there are often better alternatives to Apps, if people are just willing to spend the time looking for them. But the App Store is kind of like shopping at a Big Box store for all your needs, when other companies may be making better products not found in the Big Box Store. Why does MS have an App store? I believe it is mostly a holdover from the Windows Phone days. Another example where a device is tied to an App store, because there are literally no alternatives to the apps.

As you say, to each their own, but to me, this is just further IOSifacation of MacOS.

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Oh that is definitely were they are going i think. I think that's where we differ also, I love the latest version of MacOS, Mojave is by far my favourite, with dark mode, stacks, News and IOS apps coming to the Mac via Marzipan will be a great thing i think. It was only a handful of Apple apps last year at WWDC, this year developers will be getting their hands on it and that's when i think we will see it be even better.

Bringing IOS apps to the Mac will help unify the two platforms, i think it will also help Apple when building ARM based Mac's, with their own in house chipset. I think that will happen eventually and it will either be great or a mistake, personally if Apple can make the chips as fast as they do for the iPad Pro's (the latest iPad Pro rivals most computers and even the Macbook Pro's) then they will be onto a winner.
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As for stuttering, again 2018 MBP has worse response time than even the SP6 and if you are scrolling quickly it is very noticeable, almost dizzying. But perhaps we are not talking about the same thing.

I've seen the stuttering and lag a few times, for example when using my finger to scroll a webpage or when using the Surface Pen it will pause for a couple of seconds with the blue circle, after which it will carry on fine as if nothing had happened. It's not debilitating but something i've noticed.