Surface Pro 4 first impressions

[tobefirst ⚽️]

I got my first BSOD last night. Boy, do those look a lot better than they did in Windows 98, the last Windows computer I had. So, that's a bummer I hope to never see again.

I did spend a little time drawing in One Note and Autodesk's Sketchbook last night though, and that was pretty cool. I'm hoping to make that part of my daily schedule.

 

[Renzatic]

Nope, those people SHOULD buy a real tablet AND a notebook, like me.
Surface is just an half baked solution: not a great tablet and not a great notebook.
I bought a SP 3 at a very low price, I was intrigued by it as a windows phone user, I have sold it after one month because it basically is "worst of both worlds ".

That hasn't been my experiences with it. Overall, I've found it to be an excellent ultrabook, and a decent tablet.

The only advantage I'd give to a traditional laptop would be it's quote unquote lapability. If your legs are stretched out, it works fine in your lap. Not so much if you're sitting straight up in a chair. But for that, I'd be using it more like a tablet anyway, and I just about always have a place to sit it on, so it's not that big of a deal for me. It provides me more options, at the expense of one thing that isn't that big of a deal in my personal day to day workflow.

I got my first BSOD last night. Boy, do those look a lot better than they did in Windows 98, the last Windows computer I had. So, that's a bummer I hope to never see again.

This is why I recommend everyone wait before buying one. I haven't seen a BSOD since I beta tested Win8 back in the day. Before that, it'd been quite a while too.

I've seen two with my SP4 so far. Both of them related to that goofy video bug that's been bothering the hell out of a bunch of people. The software's still a bit underbaked at the moment.

 

[maflynn]

I've seen two with my SP4 so far.

My SP3 has been rock solid, though I waited several months before taking the plunge with the SP3.

Windows 10 has been great, I've been really enjoying it.

 

[SteveJUAE]

there are people that don't want to touch the screen of their notebook, with fingers or pens whatsoever....

Whilst I agree but you cannot compare the weight of a 3 wheeler to a four then say wow it's lighter unless you want a Phd in stating the obvious

 

[ahostmadsen]

I got my first BSOD last night. Boy, do those look a lot better than they did in Windows 98, the last Windows computer I had. So, that's a bummer I hope to never see again.

I did spend a little time drawing in One Note and Autodesk's Sketchbook last night though, and that was pretty cool. I'm hoping to make that part of my daily schedule.

I do get kernel panics on my MacBook, perhaps every 2 weeks. My iMac, on the other hand, has never crashed.

 

[Macalway]

I have the SP3. Nice machine, Windows 10 is great.

I like my Macbook 12 much more. Not even a comparison. The MB 12 is the best Apple machine i've ever had.
It just fits my needs, that's all.

note: the single weird port is weird (did I say it's weird?). But it's actually nice in some ways. Just that one little slit in the side. Cable is nice. it's symmetrical.

Now, i'm glad they are making Surface threads in a Mac forum. It lets me praise the glories of Apple products compared to those other guys

Fan Boys Unite!

 

[Queen6]

After seeing the review of the VAIO`s Z Canvas it has really piqued my interest, am suitably impressed; Quad Core performance in a 12.5" tablet form factor, once VAIO update the Canvas to Skylake this is going be an extremely compelling product; $2599 for the 16Gb 512 PCIE SSD

One to watch, superficially it really does look like the VAIO Z Canvas can replace the Desktop, Notebook and Tablet. My usage would be in an engineering environment, I also travel internationally frequently so having the equivalent performance of a 15" rMBP in this far smaller form factor is a no brainer for me. Will be seeking more reviews, that is a certainty.

Just a shame Apple don't have this kind of imagination, I would miss OS X, equally the additional utility & functionality would be overriding factors.

Q-6

 

[tobefirst ⚽️]

After seeing the review of the VAIO`s Z Canvas it has really piqued my interest, am suitably impressed; Quad Core performance in a 12.5" tablet form factor, once VAIO update the Canvas to Skylake this is going be an extremely compelling product; $2599 for the 16Gb 512 PCIE SSD

One to watch, superficially it really does look like the VAIO Z Canvas can replace the Desktop, Notebook and Tablet. My usage would be in an engineering environment, I also travel internationally frequently so having the equivalent performance of a 15" rMBP in this far smaller form factor is a no brainer for me. Will be seeking more reviews, that is a certainty.

Just a shame Apple don't have this kind of imagination, I would miss OS X, equally the additional utility & functionality would be overriding factors.

Q-6

The Z Canvas looks BEAUTIFUL. Too expensive for me, but looks like an awesome product. Wish I could afford it.

 

[SteveJUAE]

Nope, those people SHOULD buy a real tablet AND a notebook, like me.
Surface is just an half baked solution: not a great tablet and not a great notebook.
I bought a SP 3 at a very low price, I was intrigued by it as a windows phone user, I have sold it after one month because it basically is "worst of both worlds ".

Some of us have tried this solution with 2 (3) devices and end up with an unused tablet toy that just gathers dust on the coffee table, good for you if your needs are satisfied.

I certainly can't be bothered to keep swapping devices as soon as something a little complicated turns up in my inbox or prohibits file transfers etc the way I want to work, especially when you also consider most already have smartphones that cover the majority of the functionality of typical Ipad type tablets

Of all the permutations, scenarios you can consider throwing a tablet in between a smartphone and a notebook simply makes no sense to me considering the other 2 devices cover all the functions other than an advantage of holding an intermediate screen size.

I love wasting money on new gadgets and have no reservations of being an early adopter. Spending money on an restricted device so it's easier to hold vs all the functionality the Surface Pro can offer all be it with a different set of restrictions puts a completely different weighting to the Pro's and Cons of owning 2 vs 3 devices and that's excluding others who also have a pro laptop or desktop IMO

 

[Queen6]

The Z Canvas looks BEAUTIFUL. Too expensive for me, but looks like an awesome product. Wish I could afford it.

Agreed it`s not cheep, equally nor is a 15" rMBP. For me I have been hoping that Apple would produce something similar for years as it`s usability is off the scale for my needs.

Personally I have not doubt that being from VAIO the build quality will easily match Apple`s and the quality of the internals equally top notch. I would just like to see it move to Skylake for the power savings. By that time I will have a clear picture of the performance and peoples impressions.

Have said for some time that Apple needs to do something amazing with the MBP for 2016, that still stands. I will update my current Retina MacBook, however right now VAIO is looking very much to be in the top slot as the Canvas is a really strong performing system Geekbench 3: 3251/12,263 on Haswell CPU, which is basically the same as my 15" rMBP, all in something smaller than a 13" rMBP that`s impressive...

Q-6

 

[SteveJUAE]

What a great tablet and worthy of it's price tag. I quite liked the review and glad she noted how cutting edge Sony had been over the years and while Apple had been blowing their own trumpet Sony Vaio's had been there done that.

I have owned several high end Z series laptops over the years and jumped out for several years as they had lost the thread only to return a couple of years back when I finally refused to buy another sub par screen on the MBA

Seems it's primed for a Skylake upgrade soon is my only concern on buying it and no BL KB is a minor point. I had almost convinced myself to get a Surface Pro 4 and not the Book more for the footprint than weight, now this beast has me thinking again, dam I such a sucker for tech

Agreed it`s not cheep, equally nor is a 15" rMBP. For me I have been hoping that Apple would produce something similar for years as it`s usability is off the scale for my needs.

Personally I have not doubt that being from VAIO the build quality will easily match Apple`s and the quality of the internals equally top notch. I would just like to see it move to Skylake for the power savings. By that time I will have a clear picture of the performance and peoples impressions.

Have said for some time that Apple needs to do something amazing with the MBP for 2016, that still stands. I will update my current Retina MacBook, however right now VAIO is looking very much to be in the top slot as the Canvas is a really strong performing system Geekbench 3: 3251/12,263 on Haswell CPU, which is basically the same as my 15" rMBP, all in something smaller than a 13" rMBP that`s impressive...

Q-6

 

[Seiga]

When it can install and run the Mac OS seamlessly and without problems, give me a call.

Until then, fuhgeddaboutit!

You should tell apple to do it. Boy, I was disappointed when I heard the iPad Pro wouldn't have a full version of Mac OS but rather iOS instead. Makes me really think that the Surface Pro 4 and Surface Book are both 10x better than this generation's iPad.

 

[cbautis2]

You should tell apple to do it. Boy, I was disappointed when I heard the iPad Pro wouldn't have a full version of Mac OS but rather iOS instead. Makes me really think that the Surface Pro 4 and Surface Book are both 10x better than this generation's iPad.

IMO, Apple was 100% Correct with choosing iOS for the iPad pro. Touch on a OS X would certainly be a disaster due to the UI not optimized for touch. You will end up with multiple mistakes when pressing buttons due to how small and how close they are to each other, just like how frustrating to use touch on Windoze desktop apps.

 

[spinedoc77]

I gave up on the SP3 and got a rMB for a few reasons:

• multi account administration is a PITA compared to win7, and each account needs an MS Live account in order to use the stock mail and calendar app. The MS Live account can't be the same for multiple accounts.
• Type cover 3 with my clumsy meaty hands had me touching the task bar when type function keys.
• MS remote desktop insists on running the session at the SP3's native resolution, can't change it. I have to download an Intel GPU driver, force install so that I can run a scaled resolution. This resolution runs on all user accounts.
• i5 overheats running simple apps like sudoku and cross word puzzles.
• TC3 touch pad is awful, mind distressingly bad.

I might try the SP4 to see if they have corrected the touchpad. But the other issues are all software related.

RDC client for Mac is awesome. And I can scale the resolution to my hearts content. rMB battery is 50% better in my experience, and the keyboard and touchpad are great (I love the short travel kb). I don't like the single USB C port, and relying on rare dongles to output to projectors. I have another week to decide whether to return it.

I call BS on the i5 overheating with junk like Sudoku. I have ran full PC games, AAA titles and the SP3 doesn't overheat. It does throttle though, but that's something to keep it from overheating. The SP4 is much better in that regard.

Remote desktop I agree is a problem. I have a 4k monitor and login to my billing companies thru RDP and I can't see a darn thing it's so small. But that's not an issue with the SP3.

Touch pad isn't great, but I never understood torturing myself to use a touchpad, it's just so unnatural, especially with a touchscreen sitting right in front of you. But I can't argue the touchpad was bad. You should try the SP4 touchpad, it's superb, and you can use the SP4 type cover on the SP3.

Multi account is annoying for sure, I like Google where you can login multiple accounts at the same time, although this applies mainly to the web mail/calendar. Now you CAN use multiple Microsoft accounts in the stock email and calendar app so I'm not sure what you are talking about.

I'm not trying to put you down at all, but sometimes if you spend a little time you can resolve things which seem like issues at first glance.

 

[spinedoc77]

Just to throw my 2 cents in, I LOVE my SP4. I just cannot believe we are in an age where we can actually have a FULL desktop class device in an ipad size. I swear sometimes I look at my SP4 and cannot believe it. There are some teething pains for sure, most of them related to the Intel graphics driver. Really really not an issue at all IMO, just occasional hiccups you see in any device these days, including iOS and android devices.

 

[cbautis2]

I'm not trying to put you down at all, but sometimes if you spend a little time you can resolve things which seem like issues at first glance.

That's why I buy a device that I DON'T need to spend a little time to resolve little things. I NEVER needed to do things to resolve issues since OS X 10.11.1 on my Macbook Air is perfect and flawless.

 

[AFEPPL]

You're lucky, none of my apple devices are anything close to "perfect" or "flawless"..

 

[apolloa]

I've never gotten a blue screen on my SP3, and my work PC never has in years. I wonder if something else is going on.

In other news, people receive kernel panics in OS X

More like the beach ball of death!! Dah duh daahhhhh

I've read a few posts about people having trouble with the new Pro 4 and the new Surface Book too. May be worth getting it exchanged?

 

[spinedoc77]

That's why I buy a device that I DON'T need to spend a little time to resolve little things. I NEVER needed to do things to resolve issues since OS X 10.11.1 on my Macbook Air is perfect and flawless.

I should look into OSx, I didn't realize it was "perfect and flawless" Man and I've been wasting all these years. I wonder why Apple even bothers to update a "perfect and flawless" OS?

 

[Renzatic]

From the Shock The Hell Out Of Me department, I decided to install some games to see how well they run. Thought Dark Souls II would be a good candidate, since it's one of my favorites, fairly recent, but not super strenuous or taxing on the resources. I'm running the 4GB Core M3, so I wasn't expecting it to do anything above 10-15 FPS. Wouldn't be playable, but would be a good test to see how far it could be pushed.

Imagine my surprise when it ran at about 35 FPS average. Yeah, I had to turn some stuff down, and drop the resolution to 1280x800, but it ran well. I could actually play the game from beginning to end on my SP4.

This thing keeps surprising me with how much it's able to do. Once MS bangs out the bugs (mostly the occasional weird waking from sleep issues, and my oft griped about video bug), it'll be one helluva little machine.

edit: let me qualify my statement above. I ran the game with FRAPS on, and it's averaging around 45-50 FPS, with the occasional drop down to the mid 30's. This means that the GPU in the entry level SP4 is a good deal faster than the one in the middle tier i5 SP3s.

 

[Queen6]

What a great tablet and worthy of it's price tag. I quite liked the review and glad she noted how cutting edge Sony had been over the years and while Apple had been blowing their own trumpet Sony Vaio's had been there done that.

I have owned several high end Z series laptops over the years and jumped out for several years as they had lost the thread only to return a couple of years back when I finally refused to buy another sub par screen on the MBA

Seems it's primed for a Skylake upgrade soon is my only concern on buying it and no BL KB is a minor point. I had almost convinced myself to get a Surface Pro 4 and not the Book more for the footprint than weight, now this beast has me thinking again, dam I such a sucker for tech

I am sure that VAIO will move the Canvas to Skylake once the CPU`s are available. When VAIO was still in Sony`s hands I looked at the 11" model, although not a powerful system, the build quality easily matched Apple`s.

I am fine to wait on Skylake for this system, that said if I was to see a 512 in a retail outlet, I would likely just buy it. Skyline at this level does not offer too much improvement, mostly power consumption and bump on CPU/GPU performance. I just need to validate the build quality & performance which I doubt will be an issue.

I was looking at the Surface Book, however wanted a smaller footprint, looked at the Surface Pro 4, which I do like, equally I would prefer a more powerful system. The Canvas has pretty much all I want; DP, HDMI, 2 x USB 3.0 and Ethernet which is a bonus, the display is fabulous and computationally as strong a 15" rMBP. The lack of backlight for the keyboard is a small minus, the only other box the Canvas does not check is a dedicated dock, and that I can live with.

This is really the product I would love to see Apple produce, however the target audience for Apple has changed, can you imagine a 12" MacBook with this specification! I doubt many of us would be concerned about it being thicker. As it stands Apple wants obviously to sell more volume, so we can expect more of the likes of the 4K iMac, not cutting edge portables.

I like their reviews, as they not not biased and there is enough detail for an initial feel of the product.

Q-6

 

[whodatrr]

Microsoft is now offering a pretty aggressive trade-in... up to $700 off, towards the purchase of an SP4.

https://microsoftsurfacetrade.cexch...OASw5aKDpqXvXmODyszLEotdbI/OX2ejuTAp209lG8FBP

 

[SteveJUAE]

Multi account is annoying for sure, I like Google where you can login multiple accounts at the same time, although this applies mainly to the web mail/calendar. Now you CAN use multiple Microsoft accounts in the stock email and calendar app so I'm not sure what you are talking about.
.

I think lewdvig is refereeing to multiple user accounts on login eg Admin, Guest, user etc

I see little difference here on face value between the OS's and to justify swapping from Windows to OSX for this is trivia IMO

Perhaps he's forgetting you have to have a Apple/ITunes account to do most things related to software/updates/upgrades etc on his rMB and you have to login in each time it requests

If anything OSX can be more intrusive eg update to El Cap required an Apple account with all sorts of details required MS update to Win 10 asked for nothing

I sure there is other examples in reverse but this is minor stuff

 

[SteveJUAE]

I am fine to wait on Skylake for this system, that said if I was to see a 512 in a retail outlet, I would likely just buy it. Skyline at this level does not offer too much improvement, mostly power consumption and bump on CPU/GPU performance. I just need to validate the build quality & performance which I doubt will be an issue.

I was looking at the Surface Book, however wanted a smaller footprint, looked at the Surface Pro 4, which I do like, equally I would prefer a more powerful system. The Canvas has pretty much all I want; DP, HDMI, 2 x USB 3.0 and Ethernet which is a bonus, the display is fabulous and computationally as strong a 15" rMBP. The lack of backlight for the keyboard is a small minus, the only other box the Canvas does not check is a dedicated dock, and that I can live with.

This is really the product I would love to see Apple produce, however the target audience for Apple has changed, can you imagine a 12" MacBook with this specification! I doubt many of us would be concerned about it being thicker. As it stands Apple wants obviously to sell more volume, so we can expect more of the likes of the 4K iMac, not cutting edge portables.

I like their reviews, as they not not biased and there is enough detail for an initial feel of the product.

Q-6

Bang on same here wanted the Book but in the footprint of the SP4.

I even noticed the SP3 had a BT add-on for the KB but not sure if this would work on the new SP4 KB, so the Canvas resolves this issue, but not a backlit, shame they do not offer an alternative KB even if a little thicker

The Canvas kickstand certainly resolves any airplane tray issues with the SP4 (ie falling down the gap) and as I am not a laptop laptop user it's no issues for me

I noticed there must be some grey imports floating around (eg on Amazon) as they are with Win 8.1 and the spec is slightly different eg BT 4.0 not 4.1, so check before you buy.

I would certainly like to see some side by side comparisons rMBP 15 vs Canvas etc I can't even find a proper review on the SP4 with the M processor to compare a little closer to our rMB, not that I want a low spec one just intrigued on battery life etc

Apple to produce a 12" like the Canvas, that would completely screw up thier line up of laptops which is already confused.

 

[Renzatic]

I would certainly like to see some side by side comparisons rMBP 15 vs Canvas etc I can't even find a proper review on the SP4 with the M processor to compare a little closer to our rMB, not that I want a low spec one just intrigued on battery life etc

I haven't exactly run it through the scientific method, but battery life has been weirdly mixed from my experiences. Like last night, I browsed the internet for about an hour and a half and lost around 16% of the battery. That'd put it about on par with my old iPad, which lost about 10% per hour under the same task.

Video I haven't tested yet, for obvious reasons...

Games and whatnot? It sucks the battery down like a wino hitting a bottle of Night Train.

Sleep time? I'd say it loses about 1-2% per hour while asleep. Not great by any stretch of the word. I'd not touch my iPad for 2 weeks, and still have 70% battery left when I picked it up. But it's not a showstopper, either.

Though I did have one strange exception to this when I brought it with me onsite for a job. I kept it asleep through most of the job, only really intending to use it to bang out the invoice instead of doing it all at home. I had it shut for about 5 hours, and when I went to pick it up, it looked like it lost about 40% of its battery just sitting there. It's only happened once, but I'm guessing it's probably another sleep mode bug.

So from my totally anecdotal, aside glances based observation, I'd say it's probably a little better than the higher tier SP4's. You might be able to eek an extra hour or two out of it during light usage.